Bitcoin Forum

I got a xapo debit card because i earn Bitcoins for living and it allows me to use my wallet instantly everywhere. It was a big revolution in my life because i am not under any bank bs anymore. The second factor for me is Paypal: i use it with all my international customers and yeah...i put gasoline in my car with Paypal too! Now...now...if only that formerly xapo guy is really in some Paypal button room and is really doing his job....i think if that happens would be a massive run from fiat all over the world...whatcha think?

I think the governments will never allow that to happen. fiats may decrease in value, but won't die entirely.

I think you don't understand what fiat is. PayPal is as much fiat as a credit card, only when you gas up with PayPal (not even gonna ask ::)), you pay too much because fees.
Also, don't know of any government that takes taxes in BTC. Yeah, you still owe those, regardless of you getting paid in BTC, Beanies, or vestal virgins. I realize you don't give a shit about being a freeloader, but not paying your taxes could also turn into a huge pain in the ass 4u. Initially from a jackboot, eventually from a celly named Bubba. Sans foreplay, sans kiss.

lol point taken so let me "reword": ...connecting my beanies with fiat world...
Actually my debit card does its jobs for it and i still need to use checks and/or wire transfers for some very legal affairs  ::)
Integrating Paypal with BTC would really make my day!

the problem with debit card ... are the fees at the vendor.
you pay fee, too ... but the vendor pay more more more fees than you !

that's why bitcoin with visa/mastercard is a point of transition ... but it's stupid.
but, between this 2 lines ... it can take 2 generation of human to migrate.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img633/8320/0HFg4p.gif

What would PayPal gain from using BTC? What would PayPal's users gain?


Sure. The problem with BTC ... are the fees to the buyer. Not just tx fees, but the time you spend & fees you pay to exchanges when you buy BTC online, or the exorbitant premiums (and time, and embarrassment, and risk of getting robbed & raped) when buying it in person.
And, last but not least, you get a gift-wrapped brick instead of the laptop you paid for? Nothing to be done, SFYL :(

cheap network.
fast confirmation.
no chargeback.

Paypal is cancer to bitcoin.I think Bitcoin should completely replace Paypal.Bitcoin itself has the potential to replace fiat ,why need paypal ? You can simply use other debit cards like E-coin to directly use your bitcoins normally for all your regular transactions.Moreover ,paypal is the birth place for scams with bitcoins,reversible transactions.

There's tons of stuff people use cash for that would have you shut down instantly by Xapo or Paypal. I'm not giving any company that chance. Screw that.

Fiat will continue to exist no matter how popular Bitcoin becomes. I don't understand why people still believe it will happen. Why can't people think in terms of a peaceful collaboration of Bitcoin and fiat. They need each other, where Bitcoin is the one with the bigger need for the other.

I think if there was something like this that had an impact around the world, then there would possibly be more people moving towards Bitcoin, but I doubt it would be a massive change. This is simply because there is a minimal chance that a majority of people would migrate to Bitcoin just because it exists.

While on the topic, though, how do you select which "type" of card you're using at a store? Do you say Visa or Debit?

Why not ? I can list out 100 advantages as compared to fiat when it comes to Bitcoins. Peaceful Collaboration of Bitcoin and Fiat is used for "Money Laundering" in the worst cases.Also there is no point in having a Barter system,you take my coins I will take your fiat stuff.Stability and Standards are very much important if we are seeking to completely replace fiat.I know it will take ages but its not impossible as you've put it.Tell me,what in the world you can't buy with bitcoins today ? Shows enough resemblance of fiat take over.

it automatically works as Debit asking me to type the PIN

Well, no, he has a point.

Even if you can list 1000 reasons as to why Bitcoin is better than fiat, fiat will always exist because people will not just move to bitcoin because it is different. It is also kind of hard to determine what an item should cost, as there would just have to be a "1 mBTC" or other unit tied to it, instead of a simple "$10".

The most inefficient & expensive network ever. Costs close to 1 BTC to mine 1BTC (according to satoshi) Imagine if it cost $800 to issue $1000? Yeah, that's BTC.
Also the dirtiest network 'cos mostly mined in China. China gets 77% of its electricity by burning coal. And barely any emission controls :(
https://i.embed.ly/1/display/resize?key=1e6a1a1efdb011df84894040444cdc60&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trbimg.com%2Fimg-52dd9df5%2Fturbine%2Fla-sci-sn-china-exports-air-pollution-united-states-20140120
Sometimes. Other times you got to wait 72 hrs & try again :( 3tps don't cover much transactin' :(
You do understand that chargeback's a *service*, nothing about fiat that makes irreversable tx impossible. It's just that humans don't steal from each other as much when they know they might get B& & V&. See migh brick argument in above post.

You can buy practically anything with Bitcoin, yes, if you have a certain debit card as xapo. But think about what happens in the back ground with the Bitcoins. They will get converted to fiat as soon as some one makes a purchase. They will get converted to fiat as soon as they withdraw their money via a fiat only ATM. All that is possible because the coins get converted to fiat directly.

Paypal is garbage. They restrict what you can use their service for and those fees suck. And people who abuse the chargeback suck too. Paypal can go fnck themselves.

That's actually quite interesting.

I think I might pick up one of those cards eventually, they seem like a nifty concept and I might actually find a use for it.

Governments will never allow this to happen. Fiat is what governments run on, without it they are pretty much nothing. Just people with a lot of control over us. :)

I think it would be much better if the title was: BTCitcoin + BTCitcoin debit/credit cards = death of fiat. Other monetary systems, somehow still operate on fiat (directly) so can't put in the category as BTCitcoin in which in some ways (only indirectly in most ways) involves fiat. In future, were not going to get rid of fiat (physical cash) but other modern ways will be widely used instead (like in Sweden - cash less country).

This is far from happening until all have access to internet, and I mean a decent access with acceptable speed regardless of where maybe that time Bitcoin and Paypal will replace fiat.

it is good that you are using your bitcoin, even through xapo debit card. but in my opinion none of the methods you said you are using is different from using fiat.
first about paypal, which is still fiat as others mentioned it doesn't matter that you are not handling cash physically, you are still using it.
also (maybe it is just me but) i don't consider using a third party like xapo as using bitcoin, i might as well use cash, at least that way i don't have to pay any kind of fee!

PayPal is still using fiat unless you are selling stuff online through their merchant module and getting paid in Bitcoin. Why do you hate banks and money so much though when Bitcoin is still unstable as heck and ridden with problems caused by power-hungry people?

bitcoin and paypal needed fiat money, i dont know why people still believe and have hope one day fiat money will disappear.

do you ever realize how much times people who use either bitcoin or paypal do withdraw their funds to their bank account and then get the fiat through ATM?
fiat will never death if government didn't force you to use a credit card or debit card

Yes,i'm also felt what you feel,earn bitcoinns for living is not easy but looks good for us,but i never use paypal,i'm not interesting.
anyway,i dont think bitcoin and paypal will replace fiat or compete it,bitcoin or paypal just alternate payment for now,but we dont know what will happen on future.

Yeah, from my opinion till people use one form of currency(dollar, botcoin or paypal transaction) in their daily life fiat won't die.

how you pay gas with paypal? you use CC from paypal?
mmm they can stop your account (as a bank) I think the best option are the "anonym" card link to a btc wallet (like e-coin)

Yes that's the bottomline by the end of the day bitcoin and paypal needs fiat currency because we all know that paypal and bitcoin cannot replcae the fiat currency since it can never become local currency of any country

Whats the process of getting XAPO debit card ?

Even if you combine bitcoin and paypal, still you cant rule out Fait currency.

When North Korea and South Korea teamed up to run a factory just north of the DMZ they used US dollars to pay the North Korean workers. Just consider that for a moment.
Bitcoin currently holds around 98% of all value in the cryptocurrency space, none of the other alt coins have a chance because Bitcoin is on top and will remain on top unless we fuck something up really bad.
The US dollar is in the same position as Bitcoin, nothing will dethrone it unless something catastrophic happens. Think- USA defaulting on its debts, oil selling at one dollar a barrel, nukes going off in Moscow, Beijing, Tokyo, Berlin followed by a terminator style world war. Because that's what it would take to kill the dollar.  The North Koreans think of us as subhuman demons we are the sworn enemy of the Korean people but even they accept our currency because the dollar has the best network effect in the history of the human race.  There will always be a place for Bitcoin but your delusional if you think it can kill the dollar. 

Nope, my gas station (eu brand Q8) has an app you fund with paypal and generates a code you use at gas pump to pay.

I don't think fiat will ever die entirely in as much as there is Government, what we want is a free monetary system where the manipulations of banks can be reasonably reduced; even with your digital currency, everything will still go back to fiat because you must make some local transactions.  But in all Bitcoin have come to rule. Besides, I have PayPal and need bitcoins anyone  interested should pm so that we can work it out. No scam, please!

Fiat is always going to be in this world. As much as everyone loves online currency, the governments absolutely hate it and will never let fiat lose to online currencies.

Here the official service thread about xapo https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=902526.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=902526.0)
The one in my signature is good enough too (no referrals in my signature)

PayPal steals from me a couple of cents on every transaction. Credit card and debit cards are safer.

Since you already use cards, I don't see why you use paypal. Since PayPal is more against Bitcoin even than the banks, I don't see why don't you actually boycott PayPal, as it deserves.

bitcoin + paypal is a perfect match. We can treat paypal as a bitcoin sidechain, and we can do real time transaction there.

Yeah, Paypal is history I guess, use bitcoins, then only reason Paypal is ruling is majority of sites accepts Paypal but the things will change in future when bitcoin willbe more popular.

You know what, I am hoping for a time when you wouldn't even need to rely on these bitcoin debit card services, because they're still more like a bank, anytime you use them, you pay a little fee, even to load them you're charged and the money which is in that debit card is under their control, they can seize it if they want to.

Well paypal may had the vision ,soo they hired the ceo of xapo to make paypal better and became the first to support bitcoin as they cant fight back they should workt together,for sure it would make the market act and react on the same moment the news comes saying paypal will work with bitcoin.

what advantage yu got from xapo debit card?it can used for any store which dont accept bitcoin?
i dont think fiat  will death because bitcoin and paypal,fiat will always exist,so many people need it very long time.

Yes, like for example mine bitcoins (or earn bitcoins the way you used to) > have them deposited in your xapo bitcoin address > have them instantly (well after 6 network confirmations) available to spend for fiat on your xapo debit card...smooth enough isnt it?

And yes i agree with you: fiat will exist for long big time, prolly forever but still i call myself one of pioneers making a live with bitcoins and rely 100% over my bitcoins income (yeah i still have to pay taxes using fiat...that's not my fault that's some governance being retard...)

Lol, if my debit/credit card had these fees, I'd switch to BTC 4sure :D

https://aws2.inbenta.com/OnlineResources/xapo_en/Screen%20Shot%202015-07-27%20at%2016.54.31.png

PayPal = Fiat processor
Bitcoin = cryptocurrency

Exactly it is this kind of these which will make creditcard companies lose more users every day. These fees are ridiculous.
But the combination or paypal and bitcoin will not kill fiat. There demand for fiat is huge.

it's an endless cycle, they keep losing customers = they increase the fee = result in losing more customers

usually this happen when there are many services offering the same thing, it will diluite the distribution of customers using that service

You guys do know that those are xapo fees, the Bitcoin debit card (https://support.xapo.com/what-fees-are-associated-with-the-xapo-debit-card) OP uses, correct?
Normal bank debit cards, like mine, for instance, have none of those. Oh, and my CC actually gives me perks for using it (and it also fronts me money, as in free loan).
So your beef's with OP. Paying through the nose for what us mundanes get for free.

Normal credit cards give you perks, but they do charge the merchant 2-3% for the convenience. The argument is that merchants should recognize the advantages that bitcoin gives them and pass on a portion of the savings back to the customers. That may make up for the charges currently levied by Xapo.

+1 :)

if the fiat dies, then so do the bitcoin. bitcoin is basically traded with fiat value, without the fiat, then how should we trade bitcoin online? :P
paypal is reversible but easier to take a check if someone is laundering.

that's great if you are free to use your wallet instantly. but if you think because you aren't no longer under any bank, it will kill fiat, then I say, you're wrong mate. you need more to do that. even you need very long time

But merchants don't get any advantage from Xapo, no savings, zip.
That's why they give no discounts.
Merchants never interact/know about BTC, that's the whole point of prepaid cards like Xapo.
To the merchant, Xapo's just a dicey off-brand CC. Merchants don't know/care what your card is funded with. Bitcoins or BTCeanie BTCabies -- 'long as they get paid in regular filthy fiat toilet paper, they're good :)

If someone wants that person can easily live using PayPal and a debitcard "in your case being funded by BTC using xapo", Generally physical pocket money is not that necessary anymore since you can buy everything with debitcards.

Xapo debitcard is based on USD and you are using USD to exchange, PayPal is also using USD... Paper money also is still necessary maybe not regularly but once in a while.

Fiat in a way is not paper money put USD and other currencies, You are using USD when using the xapo debitcard and PayPal not paper but digital USD transactions IMO.

I think that is a great combination. If we get rid of fiat cash and replace with bitcoin and its integration with paypal, there will be less money laundering.

Exactly that, if it's not pure bitcoin payment , it's still fiat transaction. And in my eyes paypal will always be fiat, as they are having more than enough profit the way it is now,
don't see any btc implementation anytime soon. Either way, fiat will never die out, but that doesn't mean bitcoin wont rise high and above, but it will always be symbiotic relationship with fiat.

And why would you go out of your way to pay for anything with bitcoin? It's an unnecessary step and I've yet to find a good answer to that question.   Bitcoin is nowhere near replacing fiat.

Hamuki I challenge you to do your grocery shopping every day for a week with your Xapo debit card and I will do mine with my bank debit card and at the end of the week we will compare who has spent more on colossally stupid fees and I am 101% sure that would not be me. We are all Bitcoin users but don't be overzealous over Bitcoin please.

Btw my debit card has $0 annual fee and it costs $0 to be issued  ;D

Lol you are right bud, costs are still a "bit" overhelmed (coughs). Anyway this is how i do: i cash out 100 or 200 bucks and then i go for groceries  ;)
But hey it's a start toward a 100% bitcoined Hamuki, isnt it? 8)

We still need fiat. When we sell or bitcoin, where does it go? Where is it transfered to? We can't just sell it to thin air. Once you think about it, Bitcoin actually makes Fiat stronger. It gives it more flexibility to earn it. Once you take btc to Fiat, that's it. You're done. They have the right to tax it, and so on.

That's true...
But combining it with PayPal doesn't make any sense because PayPal have their own terms of service, and the worst thing I feel about them is, they charge a lot and there is a disadvantage for sellers called "chargebacks"...
Due to this, I am with Bitcoins alone, and BTC alone is better than PayPal...
And no, BTC and PayPal even together cannot fire fiat out of the world as it has been used since decades, so it isn't so easy for anything to just kick it away... It might be in the future, but that future ain't near yet...

Well, actually PayPal is just an additional way to manage the fiat, it is not as revolutionary as the bitcoin concept, in that case I would think that neteller is even more advantageous than PayPal,  but everyone is free to choose his preferred fiat-based payment system.

I hate PayPal's high fees for using fiat currency. Can you imagine how much those fees will be if they ever start to accept bitcoin for transactions? You would be paying miner's fees plus theirs. There won't be anything left of your sent amount if that is the case. To high a price if you ask me.

PayPal is a proxy for fiat. I don't get what you're saying.

If bitcoin became widely accepted, it would definitely be the end of fiat as we know it, or at least fiat will be slightly different.

Xapo cards? I don't think you're actually spending bitcoin with these if you can spend it at vendors that don't accept bitcoin. I think this is a case of the company basically having an amount of cash to the equivalent of you're bitcoin in an account. Sort of like buying your bitcoin as you purchase goods and services.

I've been selling quite a lot on Paypal and I am yet to see a chargeback. I don't know, been a Paypal member since 2011, and people politely ask for a refund not directly request Paypal to reverse the transaction and charge you back. It depends I think. The only disadvantage is the high fees, like Paypal gets 2% of every transaction. It adds up, that's why whenever possible I request customers to pay via BTCBTCBTC.

Bitcoin is alone capable for Death of Fiat Currency. Do not combine it with Paypal. Paypal has it own terms and conditions and they try to get benefit from the account holders just like Banks of Fiat Currency. So We only want Bitcoins and No Paypal.

However with or without PayPal nothing is gonna take fiat towards death. Only a very small percentage is now using bitcoin and the majority is using fiat.

Paypal = centralized, chargeback, link to credit cards/bank account, extremely high fee & unfavourable exchange rates
Bitcoin = decentralized, no-chargeback,  no backed/linked to any bank or organization, low fee and no exchange rate!

The only way Paypal going to adopt Bitcoin is to change their policies and way of working. However, this will mean that their are not going to make tons of money by charging high fee and exchange rates- these are exactly how Paypal makes money.

Bitcoin has no need for Paypal and is much better being a decentralized cryptocurrency which has no overlooking authority. Paypal have their stupid terms and conditions, lots of charge back happens there, so yeah Bitcoin don't need Paypal at all.

Bitcoin of course

Great point

No, even tho if Bitcoin collaborate with PayPal. That doesn't mean that we don't need fiat money anymore, because we still need it to be a physical money.

They need each other

PayPal still Fiat if you sell things online through your trading module, receiving salary in Bitcoin.

I like the thought of this but i think it is still to expensive even tho the annual fee is waived in the 1st year.  Correct me if i am wrong also but do Xapo not still control the private keys here, abit like coinbase?  If they do then technically you may be out from under the banks but are now under Xapo  :-[

What makes you say that they need each other? In what way or at what capacity?
I am not seeing what you are saying with that remark. It might be because you are a newbie member you don't really care for the topic being discussed. Fortunely there are many here who take this discussion seriously.

its possible,i think in the future we will face different century,its different from some section,we would have different payment system,different vechile,different digital device and different technology. and at that time bitcoin or paypal have possibility to replace or make fiat death. i'm not sure about that,it just my opinion.