Bitcoin Forum

While we've all had a very serious laugh at 21's expense - their stupid bitcoin miner / raspberry pi that couldn't hash its way out of a wet paper bag - but not so fast...

Here is an interesting concept to be considered. 

During the normal use of a car, it becomes necessary on occasion to apply the brakes which is a phenomenal waste of energy - but it is necessary.  Grand schemes have been made to recover this energy, but those are pretty tricky and end up making the car heavy fast, which wastes even more energy.  Nevertheless, worth considering.

During the normal use of many electronic machines, there is on occasion the presense of some 'waste current'.  If these waste currents can be dumped into a bitcoin miner rather than a dummy load - then that mining is without added expense and the machine produces income as a by product - rather than merely heat.  In this case, the 21 computer makes some sense. 

But just as applying kinetic energy recovery systems on a car are hard, I think it will be somewhat hard to find the cases where this otherwise wasted energy can be collected and used productively.  Only a toaster comes to mind at first.

In theory, 21's ideas are brilliant and are something to look forward to...

However, by overcharging customer with a cheap computer, people will just feel cheated and marking it a company that focuses on fast profits, rather than a company that grows with bitcoin...

In principle, something like this is possible: there are several laboratory techniques for recovering waste heat by converting it to electricity, but as far as I'm aware, none of those techniques are used on small scale "consumer" products. But I'm pretty sure the technology is used in large scale industrial applications, so maybe all is needed is a little more development of that tech.

Anyone heard some really up to date info on heat->electricity exchangers?

Bitcoin is going not too fast but also not slow, you can see everyday bitcoins price has been changed, when halving will very close than you will see the price of bitcoin is cross 550$, may be it will be more. i mean bitcoin price is growing up not too fast but sure.   

Seems like a cool idear, there is one big problem with converting energy from, for example, breaks: you'd need an active internet connection and a running "server" to get work for your miner... Altough this can be done, seems like a really big hassle in order to generate a couple thousand hashes with the energy you just saved.

A self-contained windmill packed with ASICs and wireless 4G connection would do just fine. As part of the yearly maintenance routine you'd grease the bearings and replace the ASICs with more efficient versions.

Some people use electric space/water heaters to generate usefull heat, so using Bitcoin miner instead makes some sence - but then initial costs for Bitcoin miner is much higher than simple electric radiator, so unless the Bitcoin miner prices are lower, you wont see many people heating their rooms with Bitcoin miners instead.

Space heaters and electric water heaters make more sense for this kind of idea than toasters. (Unless you are cooking a LOT of toast :-)

Any application where electricity is being used to produce heat is a potential use case for bitcoin mining hardware. But to justify itself, it probably needs to be something that is in constant use or otherwise used a high proportion of the time. I don't think the average toaster or other kitchen appliance would ever be used enough to justify the cost of putting ASICs, wifi and so on into it.

I have the only swimming pool in Indiana that is entirely heated with ASICS.  Great in the winter - not so good in the summer. 

I think the future of mining is in exactly that: converting this "waste" of a system into a source to generate hashing power for the Bitcoin network while you don't even realize you are mining. I think in the future a lot of devices will come with integrated mining features. I like this idea of a coffee cup that will use the warm temperature as a source of mining. Sure, this may not be a lot of power, but if you install this on every single device you use, in a year it may give you a good return by literally doing nothing.

i never did this. and you have to be naive to think that such a company with talented people and serious money has not a solid plan.

good to have that company.

A few of my tweets may have helped to inspire OPs thread.  Here's the full shower-thought FWIW:

https://twitter.com/MrFelt_/status/723010146213851136
https://twitter.com/MrFelt_/status/723010343807504385

The tweets were made in the context of refuting the argument that POW is inherently bad for the environment. You can see from the whole twitter conversation, I was originally kicking around the idea of mining somewhere other than earth. Tesla jumped out at me as an earth-based option when it occurred to me that 1)  their cars are big batteries - lots of things could be attached to it while driving (hence the sidechain quip) and 2) they have internet capabilities + a computer in the dash.

On a related note, for a while I've been thinking about small mining opportunities coming in the future.  For example, 21-style computer used to get around data-caps that might otherwise interfere w/ streaming media.    https://twitter.com/MrFelt_/status/674840703344611328

Nobody should underestimate 21.  

Disclosure: I have no relationship to 21 or its people whatsoever, I'm just impressed w/ them as a company.  I do own a handful of Tesla shares, however. Not promoting either.

That's a really neat idea! I assume your ASICs are liquid cooled? Do you use a heat exchanger, or does the swimming pool water contact the ASIC heat sinks directly?

Regenerative braking is used in many electric vehicles. The idea is simple: charge the battery while braking, the motor that powers the car becomes a generator, with the charging system (battery, caps, whatever) as a load. There are even lower tech solutions. let's say you have a loop bus route. Build a road that goes steeply uphill before each stop (so the bus converts kinetic into potential as it stops), and rapidly downhill after a stop.

The Toaster idea doesn't work because people don't make toast 24/7, which is how a miner porduces heat. The sort of heat a miner produces is also hard to utilize -- let's say 120C, max, which is enough to slowly dry bread, but not toast it. Kicking in helper heating elements to toast will simply melt the miner :(

Lol, have you ever operated a windmill, or even a wind bugger on a boat? You don't "grease the bearings once a year." There are few places in the world where wind is constant and usable, and mining only when the wind blows is simply silly.

Things mentioned here will be common place in 20 years, like kinetic recovery systems in cars was common place in F1 recently but this stuff usually takes at least 10 years to filter down to the high end road cars.

This is excellent news for families who eat toast 24/7 AND are into cryptocurrency mining.

That's astounding news, who guessed how these benefits will affect one-ten-millionth of the population!

Realistically, though, thermocouples could be a benefit overall for those who do cryptocurrency mining.

Relevant article just tweeted by Wall Street Journal:

https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/723270104847364098

I know from experience that sarcasm doesn't come across well on the internet, so... You're joking, correct? This is a prank?

http://s31.postimg.org/dcgbha6uz/Capture.gif

In case you're not, ELI5 how buying a $400 rasPi which mines a few pennies/day going to help me with data caps?

Obviously, you're not a golfer.

 I was led to believe that artisanal toast bars were popping up all over the place in the US right now.  I'm pretty sure eating toast 24/7 is a thing and bitcoin must be in those same places - I'm thinking San Fran?
 

All work out machine will use energy from exerciser to min bitcoin, all BOWFLEXs.
Even 24 fitness announced that they will give user a refund when you exercise more and mining more coins.

If your Asics are running at that temperature, your cooling is shit and you will not only burn your toast, but the Asics too. I would much rather channel all that heat into central heating. Let's take the Shopping Malls for instance. How much are they spending on heating solutions? Would it not be better to rent basement space to Bitcoin miners and then channel the heat into the building?

In Summer the heat can be re-directed with fans to the outside of the building and on cold days to the interior. How many Shopping Malls use huge Air conditioning systems to generate heat? They swap unused space for free heat.

Lol Gleb, perhaps there might be a little more takeup with people who just plain mine cryptocurrency. Y'know, mining is a 24/7 thing. Get's kind of warm. Don't give up the day job ;)

Rent space to bitcoin miners? Sure, if there's absolutely nothing of value to steal in your mall & don't mind getting stiffed on rent.
You do realize that shopping malls don't have big empty basements, and that retail space is a bit pricier than tin chicken sheds in rural Chian, right?
And that few shopping malls have electricity rates anywhere close to Chinese, government-subsidized rates?
And what of the summer months? Bitcoin farmers are seasonal renters?

Otherwise, best idea ever.

The 21 people are a lot cleverer than me. I'm sure they have some epic plans up their sleeves that'll blow your tits into next week.