Bitcoin Forum

What a heck is this and where is the rest of my coin?

My 25btc is now 0.04btc

I'm disgusted (but not surprised).

Nyan.c had no funds left even BEFORE GLBSE went down.

The way the nyan structure worked was that assets went first to Nyan.a, then to nyan.b then to nyan.c.  Nyan.c got the bulk of dividends in return - so it took most of the risk in return for most of the reward.

When OBSI defaulted that totally wiped out any chance of Nyan.c getting anything back - and pretty much took out nyan.b as well (other defaults had already taken nyan.c down to 0 previously).

I'm not even sure why usagi bothered listing nyan.c - as unless OBSI showed up with a truck-load of cash it was always getting zero.

Much as I disagree with a lot of what usagi did, Nyan.c is/was legitimately worth absolutely zero - the remaining assets won't even cover giving nyan.a back their funds, let alone nyan.b or nyan.c.

Shares in nyan (the parent company) will also be worth exactly 0 (if they had any assets they'd have to go to cover nyan.a/nyan.b per contract).

So, all the "I am paying back blaa blaa blaa" was just a circus...
Why am I not surprised?

I'm sorry you don't like what happened, I don't like it any more than you do. But as of now, i've already paid out on all the value we were able to recover. To help, i've already sold thousands of dollars of my own possessions including gold, silver, and my prized Gibson SG Guitar to try and give people like you a decent payment. My current plan is to buy BTC at 5x the price it was when we started and just pay out on NYAN.A. It will likely take me a year. That is how far I am willing to go to make people like you happy. But not farther.

We are still owed 350 BTC from Imsaguy (smickles' partner). Notice how smickles has disappeared recently as well. His clients are complaining on IRC that smickles has disappeared with their assets as well now. Then there are 125 BTC which brendio owes us for BIB.BVPS at current prices. Then 100 BTC from Patrick Harnett. Then 300 BTC from Hashking. Then 100+ BTC from teek. And on and on and on. Not to mention stuff like FPGAMINING (100+ BTC), UDN (100 BTC) etc. Oh right, 750 BTC from Matthew N. Wright. As soon as I get any of that money, it will go directly towards paying off NYAN.A. Then there's Obsi. I'd love to track them down, but the community has spoken; my assets have not been approved on BTC-TC, and the sunset clause ended last month.

There's something you can do to help, EB. If you vote YES on my securities I can establish a fair market value for the assets they still hold, and continue operation in some limited sense to recover that value for investors. If you don't, just be aware that there really isn't anything left in the companies, and sooner or later they will be delisted. I've scheduled some dividend payments but who knows how long I will be able to stay listed without approval? It's basically up to you at this point. If you vote yes, there is a future for these securities.

My plan for running my bitcoin business going forward is to do a good job and hope people will eventually realize the truth, that I am one of the few people here who is trustworthy.

This is something I can't figure out.

BMF/CPA have zero assets (BMF may have some that hasn't been paid out yet - but CPA can't have any or it would have gone to YARR/nyan.a).  So how can they have a non-zero market value?  And with what can they can continue operating?

If you want them approved first thing you'd need to do is put up proper contracts for them - along with some statement of assets.  I can't see any chance of approval for a security that claims to have zero assets but wants to trade regardless: in the case of CPA it's already insolvent (it can't pay its guarantee on Nyan.a) so not in a position to list anywhere.

I don't really care if I can list on BTC-TC though. That's the thing. The damage has already been done. So if the securities are worth zero, then let me buy them back to provide closure. Look what happened when I did a forced buyback, which was essentially a gift pure and simple. People complained.

Yes, there are assets. According to the auction you suggested we hold, they're worth approx. zero. But I believe there is some recoverable value. Maybe not much but something. There is also the case for the continued operation of BMF. We had hardware. Theoretically we still have at least one FPGA single which just hasn't arrived yet. Plus I still have not been able to sell some shares of JAH yet. So we're worth more than some small mining companies that have managed to stick around. The problem is, BMF needs one or two more votes and no one's voting. Just look at SILVER. 7 no votes. Why? One person voted NO because I offered to be personally liable, despite there being multiple personal loans floated as bonds (some blatantly, others not so much). Or the comments that I am untrustworthy. ORLY?  ::)

I had originally thought that I would be able to let the market decide what our assets were worth. CPA too. Like DMC for example. But it was not meant to be. Honestly, you could help here, Deprived, if you were a LTC-GLOBAL moderator and vote me in. As it stands there's no incentive for me to pour personal money into it if I can't list and continue operations. I auctioned what I could auction, I sold what I could sell, and I put thousands of my own $ money on top of that. In truth I don't know what people want. Clearly, people will be disappointed no matter what happened. Least of all myself. So whatever happens happens. I'll just keep making payments and if we never get listed then we never get listed.

CPA, nyan and nyan.b should all have a forced buyback done at 1 satoshi anyway - provided you explain why they're worth zero (which isn't hard) I don't see what people can complain about.  If they want to complain that the value fell to zero fine - but there isn't really any disputing that the value of them IS zero.

The listings on BTC.CO were done to liquidate the companies.  If the result of that is there's no cash left after debts are settled then that's the reuslt of liquidation.  I'm totally baffled how EskimoBob had never noticed Nyan.c had a value of 0 - it had a value of 0 well before GLBSE closed and that was always a likely result of being at the risk end in a tranched security that invested in obvious ponzis.

What you did wrong BTW was to do a forced buyback without having the courtesy to issue a notification on nyan.c explaining what you were doing and why.

Good point. It was already announced in the closure thread but it would have been nice to leave a note that way as well.

I'd already talked to several investors and told them there was no value left in B and C. Actually, even lucidize (he left a comment above), I had talked to him on IRC and told him a long time ago there was no value left in B/C. I guess he forgot.

No biggie I will just send an e-mail to the holders of record. Conveniently, BTC-TC e-mails me the holders of record so I have a list of who was holding.

Oh one other thing, I can't edit the contracts because the securities are locked. I asked burnside to unlock them so I could change the contracts a couple of weeks ago but I didn't get a response yet. I might ask him again in a couple of days. No rush. Actually, I think a more likely scenario to get listed is that I get approved first. Plenty of people who voted NO or abstained are familiar with my name here and know what my companies do. If they move their vote from ABSTAIN or NO to YES, I'd come back here and discuss a new contract. Actually, your input in that would be very welcome.

But until that point this isn't something I am planning on staying up all night working on again.

Oh thank god, just got an e-mail from brendio today. He's alive!

He said he will be making backpayments for dividends soon and work out how to transfer our shares to us soon. I would absolutely love to make a dividend payment-in-kind or sell the shares and pay out the ~150 BTC they are worth to NYAN.A investors. That was one of our core holdings.

See Deprived? This is why I wouldn't mind getting listed. Maybe I can recover even more value?

Can moderators even vote on your assets anyway?  Thought locked ones couldn't be voted on at all - and the only changes to votes on yours were vote vanishing when people who had voted no longer held 10 shares of LTC-Global.  My understanding was your deal with burnside was that you'd list for the purposes of liquidation with no trading possible - hence him not takiny any action to help faciliatate trading as that's not what he'd agreed to.

Most of them there's zero point reopening anyway.

YARR - has first claim on whatever assets CPA got (it should take priority over nyan.a), should just have a forced buyback at 1.0.  No point opening trading.

Nyan.b - will have zero value should have forced buyback at 1 satoshi.  No point opening trading - it has no assets and no value.

Nyan - will have zero value (if it had anyway it would go to nyan.a/b) should have forced buyback at 1 satoshi. No point opening trading - it has no assets and no value.

CPA - will have zero value (anything left after YARR should go to nyan.a) should have forced buyback at 1 satoshi. No point opening trading - it has no assets and no value.  Can't be closed until after BMF is in theory - but in practice makes no odds as you're personally guaranteeing nyan.a.

Nyan.a - if you're personally going to guarantee paying back 1 BTC per share then I can conceivably see a purpose in this opening for trading.  It would be a personal debt of yours - with it trading at a discount based on how confident people are you that you'll repay, the degree of their desperation for some cash now rather than more later, and different people's estimates of how long it will take you to repay.  As such it DOES have potential to find a market value - and the contract for it should define it as a personal debt, detail what has been paid so far and give your best estimate for the likely time-scale of full payout.

BMF - thought you'd sold all the assets of this, in which case a forced buyback should be done with the last funds received.  But not until AFTER you've posted a list of liquidated assets to allow any issues to be raised (e.g. making sure all the mining hardware listed prior to GLBSE closure has been accounted for).  Unless there's assets with some reason why they can't be liquidated swiftly there's no gain to listing - as market value is just the proceeds of liquidation divided by number of outstanding shares.  In liquidation realisable value IS market value.

The system won't allow contract changes with shares in the wild.  Please send me approved contract changes via email and I'll update them for you.

Cheers.

Yeah, I actually created a special mode for Usagi's shares.  They can be voted on, traded via private transfer, and the forced buyback option was left in place, but public trading was locked.  I may end up using this mode for future delistings.

To test the voting (just to be doubly sure) I went ahead and voted on NYAN.C: https://btct.co/security/NYAN.C

Cheers.

Yes, I agree, those are all valid reasons why NYAN.A should list. Like how G.IPPT got listed on bitfunder, and BTC-BOND is listed as well. It's pretty much exactly that sort of thing.

If NYAN.A could trade, I'd put up a fair bid and I suspect others would as well. It would ease a lot of pressure on all sides.


BMF still has assets as you mentioned. There's also a case for it's continued operation. The truth is, just like how Butterfly Labs offered refunds in BTC denominated in dollars, when you denominated the assets of BMF in dollars, we made a lot of money. Unfortunately people won't see it that way in BTC :)

I will give burnside a contract for it but who knows if it will get approved at this late hour.

Honestly I just would like to see it get approved to put all this behind me. Thanks for your suggestions!

To be honest considering NYAN.C was worth ZERO I am quite surprised and infact happy to receive 0.001 per share.

But if you could perhaps give us an official announcement BEFORE any more forced buyback's of your other securities.

Per the asset issuer's request, I have reverted the forced buyout.

The shares have all been returned to the previous shareholders.  The coins everyone will be allowed to keep.

Cheers.

Confirmed, I've reversed the buyback order. Everyone has their shares again.

The payment of 0.001 is now essentially a distribution payment.

Now here is the deal. As per the advice Deprived and EskimoBob gave me, I have given new contracts to burnside for my NYAN and BMF securities.

Should these securities now be approved under the new contracts, I will buy back the shares on the open market. Please note that the new contracts specifically prohibit me from selling shares. I will likely start bids at yet another 0.001 for B and C shares, put up bids at 0.79 (0.99 minus what's been paid back so far) for NYAN.A, as per the original contract.

The rest is up to the LTC-GLOBAL mods now.

Please vote YES on: BMF, NYAN.A/B/C, etc.

Thanks and good luck.

I guess this has to be fixed first  "Public trading has been frozen on this asset by the BTC-TC admins."

That will come off if the assets pass moderation.  In the meantime, the voting works on all of them.

Cheers.