Bitcoin Forum

without words  :)


http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/

Everyone knows the Chinese exchanges are not a reliable source for information and those stats are being manipulated. Those exchanges are also in

competition with each other, so they manipulate those stats. I mostly ignore all Chinese sources when I look at the prices. These are some of the

sources I use to get a average price :

Bitfinex
Bitstamp
BTC-E
LocalBitcoins 

When there are no transaction fees, volumes are not reliable at all.
You could trade with yourself all day long and drive up volumes.  :)

This has been like this since the chinese exchanges got big.

The thing is that it is mainly artificial volume to make it look like they are the hotshots around. Due to their zeor trading fees, bots can move coins around between their own hands as often as they like without spending any precious coins. What they do succeed in though, is pumping the trading volume like mad.

Don't be distracted by this too much, it means nothing.

Some serious shenanigans going on in there.

Also:


https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/future-bitcoin-china-bobby-lee-speaks/

then, the fake volumes do not affect the BTC price overall? is it not that means market manipulation?

no transaction fee or no trading fee? these are two different things. and do you have a reference for what you say?


also it doesn't matter if it is 0 because it has been proven that Chinese are very interested in crypto markets whether it is bitcoin or altcoins they have always been there with lots of money to invest.

Yes you are right as this cant be the true source of information. Also these exchanges are in Chinese language and it is almost impossible to check whats going on there.
Other than that chiesne are also great investors in bitcoins. No doubt about that.

92% oh man that is really huge volume, but the fact is doubt about even 50% is true volume.  ;D
But whatever the stats shows we all know chinese loves bitcoin and they can drive the market to both way.

i dont think this is true and trusted data chart,even we know china is lead on bitcoin miner,i can believe if okcoin lead with 92% in bitcoin market,and CNY 95% for currency,can anyone give another source?

If you're referring to OKCasino, then you're making a huge mistake.
It's well known they run volumizers on their exchange in order to attract new money.

If you want a reliable exchange, you should look at Stamp.

Volume =/= ownership, and these are poor statistics as mentioned by other users anyways.

Bitcoin might just be being sent in a circle in China for all we know. I heavily doubt that there is a large amount of users moving it.

Let's see USD and CNY flow in and out. Then we'll know what the real deal is. It kinda sucks that people think btc belongs to China when there's not alot actually going on there.

It has always been very difficult to get reliable data from China, regarding anything economy-related. It's the same with sales of luxury goods. China has always been good at faking things. One emperor had a fake army, some centuries ago.

I agree with you. All the exchangers are talking about transparency but no one will want to share this kind of information; IN and OUT transactions.  :)

It will reveal how small they are and that all the BUZZ is for advertising. Many from these exchangers would not survive without the money from stupid "investors".

BTC does not belong only to china.
These stats are not yet confirmed

confirmed by...whom? :)

This. You should only pay attention to exchanges charging fees - their trades are real (anyone just trading back and forth with themselves all day would soon go broke).

it is a far way to go from a high trade volume on exchanger to claiming China owning bitcoin.

Chinese people have always been very interested in crypto currencies and have always invested big money in this market. maybe it is their economy or maybe it is the high number of population there but they have always been so active in this market.

who owns +90% from mining? who owns the biggest exchangers?

according to any statistic, China :)  .    Then the whole Bitcoin industry belongs to them.

https://bitcoinity.org/markets/list

https://blockchain.info/pools

If the numbers are fake then why the Bitcoin media doesn't say anything about that? Normally, the journalism's ethic and the common sense should write: " BTC China, Okcoin, Huobi, LakeBtc  are manipulating the price and they must be avoided" or to take an interview with them where these so called exchangers explain the numbers :).  I don't see any article about that lately.

I repeat: over 90% from BTC market belongs to China. Okcoin has 93% from this market too. :)

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/

If so, USD/Euro, US and European exchangers doesn't exist as real BTC business  :)

there are alot of people saying the volume is fake because the exchanges dont charge commission, which makes no sense.

I agree with the opinion that those chineese exchanges are not to be trusted when it comes to exchange volume.
Just think about it, operating an exchange costs a lot, especially with big number of users, and if they dont charge fee - how do they stay alive ?

I'm guessing that both their user base and real exchange volume are atleast 100x lower than what they claim it to be. No fee's - not a real exchange imho

How is this news?
China > Largest miningpools f2pool/ hashnest
China > Largest Asic suppliers
China > Largest exchanges based on volume.

So yeah nothing new here.

if they manipulate the volume and they do, then they manipulate the BTC price as well. of course, all the exchangers have fake volumes but the chinese ones are multiplying x 10 times. is it not something serious this thing? why is the BTC media so quiet regarding to this very important aspect?

unless i see the link to these exchanger's FAQ page saying we charge 0 fee on each trade i say it is a big fat lie or misinformation that people are spreading because i have checked one and it was not zero!!

Maybe some people spreading FUD about the price, and trying to slink it downwards?  :D

What are the fees anyways, if they're quite minimal then there might as well not be any fee associated with the transactions. I'd keep moving $100 and shuffling everything back and forth if it only cost me $0.01 to move the money each time it was moved.

So you just figured that one out huh. You took the little bus to school, didn't you?

I though Bitflyer and BTCBOX reclaim BTC/JPY number one.
Someone posted it a few days ago. See it here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1431112.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1431112.0)

the pie chart seems unreal to me, although there is no argument about the massive trade volume in chinese exchangers but i don't think it is that much difference between the volumes.
it is possible that that site is using the API in a wrong way, you should compare the bitcoin volume maybe they are comparing fiat volumes (cny with usd).

You can only get the real volume from the exchanges which charge a  trading fee. without fee, it is easy to manipulate.

I think china are perhaps 60% of the market, they do seem to control the overall price as price will never move in either direction without china saying so.  Its got to be bullish overall though with the miner control in china they are going to be fighting hard for bitcoin in many ways.

volume manipulation means price manipulation and this affect ALL the BTC users. why nobody is saying a word about this shit? the whole BTC media should explode with articles related to fake volumes.
how can BTC become "mainstream" when it's a full of lies and illegalities? :)

Pokerstars had to ban Chinese players because they where cheating in big groups and it was the only way to fix the issue. China is always going to be a issue of influence.

 the chinesse exchanges are doing more. they are manipulating the whole market with their HUGE fake volumes. Normally they should be "banned" but how can you do that when they "own" the BTC. They own the miners and the so called big exchangers. :)

lets say that charts is truted and its a trusted site,bitcoin in china is so popular and so many exchange there,its not wonder if biggest exchange come from china,maybe small exchange work with the biggest.

You not getting any genuine figures from China on these matters and there are no journalism ethics... because there is very little media coverage in China. In any other western country things like will be

challenged, but this is not a western country. This is in any case nothing new and not worth the debate...because everyone knows and accepts this. We base the Bitcoin price and the statistics we can trust

and whatever they are doing there.. should be their problem.  ;)

This is what I am saying. The BTC price is made by those like Okcoin, Huobi, BTC China. These are exactly the ones you don't trust :)  They dictate the price through their fake volumes.

I would be alright if someone with a lot of money would "manipulate" the market." This guy put a lot of money and he is playing... that's it" BUT the chinesse exchanges and not only, have bots who are trading "air"(fake transactions) not real money or value of money like BTC :)

I've repeatedly read things like "fake volume", "everyone knows you can't trust" etc. in relation to Chinese exchanges. However I've yet to encounter serious evidence that verifies these claims.

While it is certainly possible that these claims are correct, it is still possible that the most simple explanation is the true one: The Chinese Bitcoin exchange market is bigger, because there are more users. Just consider population statistics.

Can anybody point me to some evidence regarding the frequent fraud claims against the major Chinese exchanges?

ya.ya.yo!

Chinese are famous for the capacity to earn great quantity of all... see gold for example they are one of the most producers in the world...
btc can belongs to china but "the value" inside this technology is for all people and not only for who take large quantities .

There was all types of screaming about OKCoin when Roger Ver fell out with them over his domain name. Some ex employee said they ran the occasional bot and staff were encouraged to trade.

Anyway it doesn't really matter. They could have ten legit customers with a million bots each. That's not technically fake volume but I don't think it's worth paying any attention to.

lol, it lools like china often produces fake stuff.

I'm just interested in the free fees. is that one of marketing strategy to invite customers or it's another fake one?

the most worried thing is that "nobody" cares about that :)

That is a lit bit worrying, since it should be decentralized. but then again china hold real large positions in the bonds market too. so not quite something bad right?

what does have the bonds market with the niche BTC market? :)   " it should be decentralized" but it's not. the exchangers are "centralized" and i don't see any small effort from companies to develop something decentralized. it's obvious why :)

Roundeye!
All your coin are belong to us!

Of all the exchanges, no other exchange can beat Chinese exchanges in terms of fees.
Many folks from Europe need to wake up, only USA can compete with China now.

they can "beat" them if they create a bot who can make more fake transactions than theirs :)

Is it really free, from web site, it is .2 percent.
If I can exchange Bitcoin and USD fro free, I will open an account there.

I would not entirely trust the statistics the Chinese exchanges are giving out because they tend to present a lot of fake numbers to generate more activity than there is. Yes it's true that the Chinese mining farms have most of the hashing power but that is so because of the cheap price of electricity and the fact that all the manufacturing plants of ASIC's and stuff are already in China so they are getting new hardware for pennies on the dollar. But that does not exclude the possibility that the Chinese are lying through their teeth about the trade volume right?

The Chinese volumes are rigged. Most of the exchanges offer near-Zero fees, and therefore the users tend to indulge in a lot of margin trading. If you exempt the margin trading volumes, then it can be seen that the maximum exchange volumes are from the United States. China will be in the 3rd or 4th position (behind the European Union, and possibly Russia).

rigged in this case means price manipulation; BIG manipulation which is illegal in a normal industry :)

Perhaps "margin trading" is not the phrase you were looking for?

keep in mind that China gov banned all the banks to work with BTC companies.

The question is : how is it possible to the chinesse exchangers to own over 97% from BTC trading while the ban is enforced? :)

The thread about Bitcoin is dead explains the whole situation a bit better. I really hope that this changes and Bitcoin goes back to what it used to be when it was starting out. (but not the price)

I think the chart is not correct, i dont believe that chart at all, and i dont think that is possible at all, bitcoin is used globally, every minutes people keep on exchange it, so its impossible china can monopolize the chart

correct,as long we dont get any bad effect from that,we still no worry about that. china is big country with bigpopulation,its no wonder if china have big bitcoin distribution,exchange and bitcoin user is better on china,but i dont think its will become big matter for bitcoin circulation.

I know it's a fake volume, but still counts...
If are trader, you probably are looking for both BTCUSD and BTCCNY, and if you are looking to both you probably already saw that pumps and dumps happens first(not always, but most of the time) in chinese exchanges and they affect other markets.

So, fake or not, they counts(at least for a trader)

of course, it counts. it's called price MANIPULATION.

someone said "  I think the chart is not correct, i dont believe that chart at all, and i dont think that is possible at all"


Well, according to ALL the charts from all the websites, OKCOIN has over 90% from trades and China has aprox 96% from trades overall :)

https://bitcoinity.org/markets/list

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/

IF these charts are fakes then everything related to Bitcoin is fake because these charts reflect the BTC price as well.

So, how are the things going? :)

I expect most sites listing bitcoin pricing are perfectly aware of the situation with Chinese exchanges, and handle it in a manner similar to Coinmarketcap.com:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets

Notice that all the fee-free Chinese exchanges are listed down at the bottom (starting at #87 on the list as of this moment) - and right now, Chinese exchanges are only represented by OKCoin in #4, out of the top 10!



#   Source   Pair   Volume (24h)   Price   Volume (%)   Updated
1   Poloniex   ETH/BTC   $ 18,713,500   $ 454.20   31.37 %   Recently
2   Kraken   ETH/BTC   $ 5,737,290   $ 454.20   9.62 %   Recently
3   Bitfinex   BTC/USD   $ 4,113,790   $ 453.53   6.90 %   Recently
4   OkCoin Intl.   BTC/USD   $ 3,588,240   $ 452.65   6.02 %   Recently
5   Kraken   BTC/EUR   $ 2,846,940   $ 453.96   4.77 %   Recently
6   Coinbase Exchange   BTC/USD   $ 2,720,390   $ 456.00   4.56 %   Recently
7   BTC-E   BTC/USD   $ 2,331,790   $ 452.30   3.91 %   Recently
8   Bitfinex   ETH/BTC   $ 2,122,840   $ 454.20   3.56 %   Recently
9   Bitstamp   BTC/USD   $ 1,603,690   $ 453.60   2.69 %   Recently
10   itBit   BTC/USD   $ 1,311,060   $ 452.74   2.20 %   Recently

please read again and you will notice that the chinesse exchangers are on top with over 90% CNY and USD from market.

Only Chinese exchange I see there is OkCoin. Coinmarketcap specifically excludes the zero-fee exchange volumes from their calculations.

Since so many people talking about chines exchange, I am wondering, can someone help me out which exchanges are Chinese?

Is bitfinex Chinese exchange?
Is lakeBtc Chinese exchange?

I know OKcoin and huobi are Chinese exchanges, am I right?

merchants does not belong to china, and they hold the most important part of bitcoin, with the mining scene, so china as best is contorlling 50% of bitcoin, talking about the absolute control over it

people always forget the importance of the merchants....

As far as I know the Chinese are interested only in the mining of Bitcoin and the general population hardly ever uses Bitcoin for online purchases so merchants in China are a minority and don't have any important say in the Bitcoin matters. The miners hold almost all the coins themselves in China.

Not sure if the volume is real. Maybe they use different formula for the calculations. Nevertheless, there is no doubt that Chinese in China have great interest in BTC.

I think it is because of its zero trading fees, as people want to work on those bitcoin trading exchanges where the exchange fees are much lower or they do not have any exchange fees, and the other thing is that the people of China are more interested in bitcoin and they use their country's exchanges so a large number of bitcoin users are there,

 In china, the banking institutions are banned from engaging in bitcoin business through banking, as well as servicing or doing business with the bitcoin industry.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-12-05/china-s-pboc-bans-financial-companies-from-bitcoin-transactions

in short, the people cannot send or receive money into their bank accounts from and to exchangers.
More than that, all the exchangers are outlaw. They are not financial licensed as the chinese law requests.

The question is : How is it possible for the chinesse exchangers to own over 95% from BTC trades while they cannot deal with local banks? I agree that SOME of their clients may send international bank wires(outside of China) by lying the banks that they are sending the money for buying biscuits...BUT we are talking about +95% from Bitcoin trades not 10 wires :)

China is just being to hype for Bitcoin, especially for the halving. This is could be a good thing, and also bad thing if the amount keep increasing.

It's an artificial hype. It's based on false volume and that's why the normal people are staying away for BTC.

Do you know any website who shows the real volumes?

Why should the normal people stay away from Bitcoin? Normal people could still be using Bitcoin as a currency and not a store of value if they wish. If normal people should not use Bitcoin because of fake trade volume and artificial hype then which alt coin do you suggest they should start using instead. Let me guess, is it Ethereum?

You have different opinions, but it is indeed real. You can prove yourself if you don't believe it. You may not yet know the formula that is used and it is causing you not to believe. Not denied that China is becoming a big market for Bitcoin and it strengthens market Bitcoin. Hope is not only China that became the Foundation of the BTC but also other countries

It really shouldn’t make a difference if the majority of miners where in China, USA or any other part of the world; at we are getting a decent supply; the main issue is the demand; if the demand should decline then the value of the bitcoin would decrease; this can also affect the supply because no one would want to mine for less.

Chinese have all the bitcoins because they are industrious intelligent people. Westerners don't have as many bitcoins because all they do all day is sit around getting high and posting on forums.

sure. they are "intelligent". they have the "Willy bot" and they put it work from time to time like now. :)

On the previous topic, I've heard if volume distribution in china's exchange is only manipulated but I don't know Which is right, 3 largest Chinese mining firms control the 70% of volume and network speed. maybe it's will give effect in volume distribution too.

The Chinese exchanges charge 0% trading fee, so the volume there is not real. It can be manipulated easily.

indeed, I think china market is the most crowded with fluctuating every hour. it keeps people from coming to the china market outside china I think, and make bitcoin volume in China booming. Thank you

how is that possible when the chinesse banks are not allowed to deal with Bitcoin exchangers and neither with persons who are dealing/trading BTC? :) This is the question and nobody answers

It's because everyone on this forum fits into one of three categories, clueless teenager, brain dead adult, or shill.

I agree and further more they never do their research and just believe in what they read.  Anyway i think those trades are just manipulation.  Bots trading perhaps.  But some article says that Chinesse are really into buying this BTC for money transfer.  They are moving the wealth outside China border.  And BTC transaction is one that is hard to tract.

how can they buy when the banks are not allowed to deal with them? remember that China is a communist country and they control the financial sector very good. it's not a joke.

Even in Europe, the banks are asking a lot of questions if you(a company)are receiving millions of USD for bitcoin. the chinesse exchangers, according to the volumes they show, they should receive/send millions of USD per day.

What bank in this world is not asking question if you receive/send millions daily and all these transactions are for Bitcoin? :)  

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-12-05/china-s-pboc-bans-financial-companies-from-bitcoin-transactions

In China, you can send money from banks to exchanges without any problem. The banks are not allowed to deal with bitcoin.