Bitcoin Forum

I keep seeing the same thing over and over. People having orders canceled as the price rises while orders at a higher price go though. They complain publicly, their issue is fixed and they act as if everything is now fine.

It's not fine.

Someone please explain to me what kind of fraud detection algorithm stops nearly identical transactions from the same person. Their "fraud detection" looks a lot like fraud perpetration.

Do you have an issue with coinbase?  Have you contacted coinbase about it?

I got an cancel today :-[ and just emailed back ask for correcting the error, will update their response.

For those interested, it took two business days (from Friday until Tuesday) for Coinbase to respond to a support ticket I created regarding a cancelled transaction.  They went back and cleared the transaction at the original price I was quoted and they credited the BTC to my account.  Then, they "whitelisted" me to avoid these complications with my account in the future.

Their algo also seems quite odd, since there isn't unsual with normal activitty of the same client who had many sucssesfful transactions is labeled high risk, (not withdraw funds).
I see at least three persons who have good history got axed once for no reason.

Just another shady ycombinator (http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/ycombinator-continues-to-suck-jointly-and-severally/) product. This is their MO. For instance their flagship airbnb thing pretty much consists of enticing ignorant people into breaking the law (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/01/your-money/a-warning-for-airbnb-hosts-who-may-be-breaking-the-law.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) (yes, it's illegal to rent your rented place to third parties most anywhere in the civilized world) in order to make a few pennies. Basically the breakdown is, you partner with airbnb, stranger pays you fifty bux to mess up your place while you're away, airbnb collects twenty, you pay 2-5000 dollars in fines a coupla months later. Ycombinator business.

Just on the strength of the appallingly scammy record anything coming out of there should be regarded with extreme caution, but then coinbase/coinwhatever in particular is a pretend-company that took a little venture capital last year, pranced around Bitcoin making taaki (http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/amir-taaki-has-done-and-continues-to-do-huge-disservice-to-anyone-serious-involved-in-bitcoin/)esque claims and statements all the while failing to develop anything like a revenue stream or a product of any utility.

They will be running out of money later this year. Show some common sense and use one of the very numerous alternatives that actually work today rather than regret it (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126847.0) tomorrow. Just a little PSA seeing how most everyone in the know seems to prefer not to talk about the scum and the noobish and naive get regularly fleeced.

Probably a bit off topic but what exactly does Coinlab do? I read through the website and it seems full of the vagaries you'd expect from a nebulous corporate holding company website; "Provides liquidity" - Does this mean they buy and hold tonnes of Bitcoins and USD's to resell at 'wholesale' rates to their customers or that they are an investment group that provides capital backing to existing/new services or some other entirely different 'financial' service?

Apparently BitInstant and a few ventures I've near heard of use them (Ribbon? ZipBit?) but it's not clear for what exactly. They've also got endorsement from some of the 'big-cheeses' in Bitcoin, and investment from some of those with more colorful histories in Bitcoin ventures (Roger Ver: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131574.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131574.0)) - it all seems very cozy. I'm sure they are providing a useful service - it'd just be interesting to know what it actually is.
 

I had my Coinbase order cancelled yesterday even though I have made transactions with them before:

"On Feb 23, 2013 you purchased 10.00 BTC via bank transfer for $286.69.

Unfortunately, we have decided to cancel this order because it appears to be high risk."

I bought in at the low last week of $28.20 (BTC Currently 34.85 lol). After sending multiple emails to support and tweeting them I received this email:

"Hi,

Sorry about that! After manually reviewing your account I've whitelisted it so you shouldn't experience any additional issues going forward. I've also pushed through the transaction that was canceled previously (at the original exchange rate you locked in), so you should have those coins by the end of tomorrow. In addition, we recently wrote a blog post about this you might find interesting: http://blog.coinbase.com/post/44046687068/high-risk-transactions

Hope it helps and sorry again for the trouble!"

Basically what they do they talk up a storm. Then eventually they say the wrong thing, get bitchslapped by the actual players, scamper away and wither in a dark corner somewhere. Sideshow entrepreneurship.

I still have not received my BTC as promised. There is no evidence of a transaction in either my bank account or my Coinbase account.  I have sent a couple emails to support but I doubt they work weekends. Will post if they actually reverse the cancellation as promised. So this day #9 since my initial order. Glad BTC is still going up. lol!

With a large portion of the community reporting that their orders had been cancelled, I went ahead and gave  coinbase a try. After waiting over 7 days for 1.0 BTC, I was fortunate enough to receive it. Hours later then the projected time but none the less I received my funds and immediately transferred it out of there!

My first orders went through fine at 1 BTC.... it's when I jumped to 10 BTC that my order was canceled an hour before it was supposed to show up. Glad you received your BTC.

Click the 1000000 button!

Coinbase: a description (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=147697)

Coinbase blows.

Quoted from the other thread on the topic.


Therefore, coinbase could never do anything with your funds.  They stand to gain nothing by faking that the orders are fraud.

They're not faking. They have the orders and the cash to back it up. They use the collective clout to get coins on the market and then they divvy them up to themselves and their customers. Not all of their customers get coins. The smaller ones get their money back...someday.

I am a smaller customer, and I've always gotten my bitcoin from coinbase.

That's good to hear. I don't hear the same story in many other places.

They can't get Bitcoins with money that they don't have.  They never actually withdraw the funds, so they didn't have any money to buy Bitcoins with!  ACH transfers are not the same as cash on the market.  Bank drafts are, ACH transfers aren't.

Also, if they're not faking the fraud detection, then wtf is this thread about?  ANY legit financial business is going to have fraud detection.  They're not scamming or cheating anyone!

See the poll at this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=147071.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=147071.0)

The majority of people seem to get their bitcoin with no problems.  I know I have.

7 or 8 people on a thread having a positive experience with Coinbase doesn't offset the tens or hundreds of complaints I've seen about them in the past month or two.

My last communication with coinbase was on March 5th:

"Hi Jared - taking a look at the original thread now. Sorry for the delay, but rest assured we will make it right.

Regards,
Fred"

After three weeks I still have not received my BTC or any indication I ever will. I am never using coinbase again.

Hundreds of complaints?  Seriously?  Have you actually enumerated the number of people you've seen complaining?

Close to it. Reddit was blowing up for a couple of weeks. That's not to mention the ones that don't complain, whose existence can be at least be surmised if not counted by the number of people that are publicly bitching.

Let's surmise the existence of those who have great experiences and don't speak up about it, then.

Surely so. But I'm hearing fewer complaints so I assume people are giving up on Coinbase.

Coinbase held true to there word and they reversed the cancellation of my order from Feb. 23rd. Today I received my original order of 10 BTC that I purchased for $286. Next time hopefully it wont take three weeks. lol!

Since they cancelled by April 19th order today (deliver day) with no reason given yet I hope they do eventually come thru and fill my order like I have seen the do for others posting here in the forum.

UPDATE: Like others reported here, I emailed them and got them to reverse the cancellation... and I got my bitcoin!

Actually, you can't tell.  Here's how the scam works:

• You give CB the ability to take your cash in trade for a promise that they'll give you btc at a certain rate.
• CB spends some cash they already have to buy some btc at the rate (minus their 1%, of course).
• CB now has the ability to sell some btc that they just bought with their own money, but they wait to see:
  
  • A) what the price does, and
  • B) How likely it is that you'll do a charge back.
• A few days later, the price is either higher or lower:
  
  • If it's higher, they sell their btc and send you a "fraud notice", but only on one out of a thousand transactions that are for enough btc to make it worth their while.  On the other 999 transactions that they deem worthy of scamming, they do what they'd do if it's lower:
  • If it's lower, they sell their btc to you as you wanted and get their 1% fee.

The point is that they don't need our money if they already have some (which, of course, they do).

However, I think its foolish to expect other people not to scam you if you don't make it difficult for them to scam you.  The easiest way to make it difficult is to be one of the squeaky wheels.  Make it easy for the public to see whether or not your counterparty is scamming you.  Bitcoin was designed with this principle in mind.  See what Satoshi said about it - it's in my signature.  When you publish enough, it becomes difficult for the scammer to use you as a mark.  At that point, if they're smart (Coinbase is pretty smart), they will use you as an unwitting shill.

If I suspect that I am being used as an unwitting shill to support a long con, and I know that I am benefiting from it (whether I'm a con or not), is it immoral for me to present both sides of the question and suggest that I believe the operators are legit?  For me, they are legit, perhaps only because I have made it too difficult for them to con me.  If they are scammers, but smart enough, they can play it in a way that makes it difficult for me to find out for sure if it's a con.

The opportunity exists for a small team to devise a plan that produces the evidence required to prove (to those willing to consider it and smart enough to understand it) that it is a con.  You can't prove it isn't a con, because every trusted person can abuse the trust, making the interaction that created the trust into a long con.  But you can prove it is a con, IF it is a con.  It just takes a lot of work.  You can view bitcoin as the "lot of work" required to prove that fiat currency is a long con.

Somebody was explaining that it's unfair to lump this coinscam with the other coinscam but now I can't find who and where.  :-\

This is just absolutely unfuckinbelievable. I've still not been compensated for what they canceled from May.