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Title: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: drawingthesun on February 22, 2013, 03:43:01 AM If anyone knows Satoshi, getting him/her to come back for a little to see what they think about the block size issue we currently have. As far as I can tell 3 things stand to eventually destroy Bitcoin and allow another currency to take over. 1. Will transaction fees be enough to secure the network forever? Will miners make enough from TX fee's? This is important because everyone gives a different answer, from TX mining will be plenty profitable to Bitcoin will not function properly after 2140. 2. The blocksize issue, This is causing a divide, it would be nice if Satoshi came here and described what he/her thinks would be best. 3. The Satoshi clients needs to have a option to only download the past months worth of blocks, with maybe the network rewarding those who keep full nodes working. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on February 22, 2013, 03:45:46 AM I'm sure that if Satoshi had the need to inject some valuable input, he would contact Gavin. And, who's to say he hasn't done such already.
Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: drawingthesun on February 22, 2013, 03:51:03 AM I'm sure that if Satoshi had the need to inject some valuable input, he would contact Gavin. And, who's to say he hasn't done such already. Ahh, that is nice heart warming thought :) I hope Satoshi isn't dead or locked away. His disappearance was a bit sudden wasn't it? Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on February 22, 2013, 03:54:47 AM I'm sure that if Satoshi had the need to inject some valuable input, he would contact Gavin. And, who's to say he hasn't done such already. Ahh, that is nice heart warming thought :) I hope Satoshi isn't dead or locked away. His disappearance was a bit sudden wasn't it? They are busy, that's all. A wise vendor one said, "No news is good news!" Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: misterbigg on February 22, 2013, 04:07:28 AM Considering the amount of brain power that's gone into thinking about the block size, I highly doubt that "Satoshi" would have a unique insight that hasn't been thought of. It's a difficult problem.
Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: bbit on February 22, 2013, 06:08:00 AM I'm sure that if Satoshi had the need to inject some valuable input, he would contact Gavin. And, who's to say he hasn't done such already. On that note Gavin can you tell us what you think ;D hehe... Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: gweedo on February 22, 2013, 08:06:08 AM I am going to try and say this in the nicest way I can possible. I hope Satoshi doesn't inject his/her/their opinion, this would give bitcoin more creditability that it can stand on it's own, and grow. I think Satoshi gave us the tools, now we have to just implement and figure out these little details.
Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: repentance on February 22, 2013, 08:12:39 AM If Satoshi came back, half the board would tell him he didn't understand what "Bitcoin was meant to be" and that he was doing it all wrong.
Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Severian on February 22, 2013, 08:28:03 AM He's already given his opinion. If he'd changes his mind, I suspect he'd get the word out.
Quote It can be phased in, like: if (blocknumber > 115000) maxblocksize = largerlimit It can start being in versions way ahead, so by the time it reaches that block number and goes into effect, the older versions that don't have it are already obsolete. When we're near the cutoff block number, I can put an alert to old versions to make sure they know they have to upgrade. mr. nakamoto, Oct. 2010 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1347.msg15366#msg15366) Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Zomdifros on February 22, 2013, 01:16:44 PM This debate on the maximum block size is getting more religious everyday. Now we beg the Creator for His Second Coming, or at least to speak to His prophet here on earth to tell us, humble mortals, how we should deal with this issue. And if He doesn't come soon, we will get into a debate on how we should interpret His Holy Scriptures.
Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: memvola on February 22, 2013, 01:40:23 PM If anyone knows Satoshi, getting him/her to come back for a little to see what they think about the block size issue we currently have. What makes you think Satoshi has more insight than any of the devs? Regardless, I'm sure he's keeping up with the development. 1. Will transaction fees be enough to secure the network forever? Will miners make enough from TX fee's? This is important because everyone gives a different answer, from TX mining will be plenty profitable to Bitcoin will not function properly after 2140. Yes. There is no apparent reason for miners to refrain from adjusting fees in accordance with mining costs. The only problem is about communicating these fees to users without involving centralization. 2. The blocksize issue, This is causing a divide, it would be nice if Satoshi came here and described what he/her thinks would be best. If we need an authority to resolve these issues, we're doomed. If I can continue to run a node myself with a modest budget, even with an elastic blocksize, then I'm for it. It seems that way for now. It was apparent from the beginning that the ordinary user wouldn't be able to run a full node when Bitcoin got popular. As long as hobbyists and ordinary businesses still can, we'll be fine. 3. The Satoshi clients needs to have a option to only download the past months worth of blocks, with maybe the network rewarding those who keep full nodes working. I think Satoshi client will have three modes. One lightweight mode that only downloads potentially relevant transactions, one pruned mode that only keeps a compact database of unspent transactions, and one full mode that keeps everything. People that can handle traffic but not storage will be able to run in the compact mode and they will still be capable of fully validating transactions. I remember that these issues were hashed over and over since before Satoshi disappeared. Actually, there was a scientific paper about this subject not long ago, though AFAIK it focused on relaying traffic. It seems to me that there will always be enough incentive for serious entities involved with Bitcoin to run a full node. We don't need them to validate transactions, but for other things, like notarization or firstbits addresses. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Rockefoten on February 22, 2013, 01:58:47 PM This debate on the maximum block size is getting more religious everyday. Now we beg the Creator for His Second Coming, or at least to speak to His prophet here on earth to tell us, humble mortals, how we should deal with this issue. And if He doesn't come soon, we will get into a debate on how we should interpret His Holy Scriptures. Awww, I was thinking the same thing, but you beat me to it. :) It is interesting, on the one side Bitcoin is attracting the libertarian and crypto-anarchist crowd, but we also got the religious zealots just looking for a Leader to submit their will to. :D Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: marhjan on February 22, 2013, 02:05:31 PM If anyone knows Satoshi, getting him/her to come back for a little to see what they think about the block size issue we currently have. Here's the very basic problem with this. I am Satoshi Nakamoto... here is what we MUST do going forward. Now who believes me and who doesn't?? Am I really Satoshi or not? and who's going to prove it conclusively? For the record - if it's not 100% obvious, no I'm not REALLY claiming to be Satoshi but anyone who did would face doubters, even if they resurrected Satoshi's old bitcointalk forum account. (could be a hacker etc) Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: johnyj on February 22, 2013, 02:06:12 PM This debate on the maximum block size is getting more religious everyday. Now we beg the Creator for His Second Coming, or at least to speak to His prophet here on earth to tell us, humble mortals, how we should deal with this issue. And if He doesn't come soon, we will get into a debate on how we should interpret His Holy Scriptures. Awww, I was thinking the same thing, but you beat me to it. :) It is interesting, on the one side Bitcoin is attracting the libertarian and crypto-anarchist crowd, but we also got the religious zealots just looking for a Leader to submit their will to. :D I had a poll with satoshi decide option, seems not so many people support it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140516.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140516.0) Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: jl2012 on February 22, 2013, 02:08:07 PM If anyone knows Satoshi, getting him/her to come back for a little to see what they think about the block size issue we currently have. Here's the very basic problem with this. I am Satoshi Nakamoto... here is what we MUST do going forward. Now who believes me and who doesn't?? Am I really Satoshi or not? and who's going to prove it conclusively? For the record - if it's not 100% obvious, no I'm not REALLY claiming to be Satoshi but anyone who did would face doubters, even if they resurrected Satoshi's old bitcointalk forum account. (could be a hacker etc) No, there is something called GPG key Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Rockefoten on February 22, 2013, 02:10:50 PM This debate on the maximum block size is getting more religious everyday. Now we beg the Creator for His Second Coming, or at least to speak to His prophet here on earth to tell us, humble mortals, how we should deal with this issue. And if He doesn't come soon, we will get into a debate on how we should interpret His Holy Scriptures. Awww, I was thinking the same thing, but you beat me to it. :) It is interesting, on the one side Bitcoin is attracting the libertarian and crypto-anarchist crowd, but we also got the religious zealots just looking for a Leader to submit their will to. :D I had a poll with satoshi decide option, seems not so many people support it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140516.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140516.0) Well,according to your poll, 14% seem to be following the Way of the Satoshi. In this crowd, I'd say that's quite a lot. ;) Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: memvola on February 22, 2013, 02:15:45 PM Here's the very basic problem with this. I am Satoshi Nakamoto... here is what we MUST do going forward. Now who believes me and who doesn't?? Am I really Satoshi or not? and who's going to prove it conclusively? His public key is public dude. ;) Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Zomdifros on February 22, 2013, 02:19:33 PM Here's the very basic problem with this. I am Satoshi Nakamoto... here is what we MUST do going forward. BLASPHEMY! Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Fuzzy on February 22, 2013, 05:16:21 PM Considering the amount of brain power that's gone into thinking about the block size, I highly doubt that "Satoshi" would have a unique insight that hasn't been thought of. It's a difficult problem. He was ahead of his time, or ahead of most IT people, anyway. But his last posts show no indication of him stepping away, he just stopped logging in one day. Very curious to know what happened to him. Is anyone able to confirm that he's alright? Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: mobile4ever on February 22, 2013, 05:17:36 PM Well,according to your poll, 14% seem to be following the Way of the Satoshi. In this crowd, I'd say that's quite a lot. ;) Its bumped up to 15.2% but 30.3% think that every BTC user should vote. If someone then puts a voting feature in the wallet software - it appears many would be happy with that, going by stats. But only 33 people have voted... and that's not reassuring for any poll. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: BrannigansLaw on February 25, 2013, 09:39:18 AM I know nothing about Satoshi. Did anyone actually know him? as in see him day to day? Could have just won the lottery, could have died, in a coma, or 'taken out'. Who knows...
Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Mike Hearn on February 25, 2013, 12:48:54 PM He communicated with a few of the core developers before leaving. He told myself and Gavin that he had moved on to other things and that the project was in good hands.
Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: BrannigansLaw on February 25, 2013, 01:18:01 PM He communicated with a few of the core developers before leaving. He told myself and Gavin that he had moved on to other things and that the project was in good hands. Are you still in contact with him? Get him to do an AMA on reddit or something. I don't know how he will prove it but yeah that would be amazing. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Timo Y on February 25, 2013, 02:21:24 PM This debate on the maximum block size is getting more religious everyday. Now we beg the Creator for His Second Coming, or at least to speak to His prophet here on earth to tell us, humble mortals, how we should deal with this issue. And if He doesn't come soon, we will get into a debate on how we should interpret His Holy Scriptures. Satoshi's opinion would help the community to decide, not because he is more competent than the current core developers, not because he is an authority figure but because it would reassure investor confidence. People invested in bitcoin because they expected bitcoin to behave in a certain way in future. In some cases, this expectation was based on the assumption that there is an implicit contract or consensus that the protocol is set in stone (a flawed assumption perhaps). In other cases, this expectation was based on Satoshi's word. Satoshi's opinion matters simply because many investors/stakeholders think it matters. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: memvola on February 25, 2013, 02:33:12 PM Satoshi's opinion would help the community to decide, not because he is more competent that the current core developers, not because he is an authority figure but because it would reassure investor confidence. If not because of competence, that means it would be irrational for them to base confidence on it. Hence the analogy of religion. Those investors need to get over it an inform themselves of the debate. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Zomdifros on February 25, 2013, 03:07:24 PM Satoshi's opinion matters simply because many investors/stakeholders think it matters. Sure, but even if he proposes a solution, not everyone will agree immediately. From what I understood of the whole debate, there is currently an experiment going on with an artificial, although not mandatory, limit of 250 KB. Gavin proposed to wait and see how the network responds to this limit, then to implement a solution. Although I was somewhat worried when I first heard a hard fork was needed to raise the 1 MB limit, I'm quite confident right now that we have plenty of time to come up with a solution that would generate enough transaction fees for mining to be profitable even in the distant future, the network to be decentralized enough that it can withstand any kind of disruption and still create the largest transaction capacity possible. I believe the whole thing is largely overblown right now. Once everybody calms down, investor confidence will remain high. I do agree it will be a good thing to hear this from the core dev team themselves though. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: BitCoinsLOL on February 25, 2013, 05:13:36 PM Satoshi is Keyser Söze
Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: The Fool on February 25, 2013, 05:25:57 PM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Identity
Ask Neal King, Vladimir Oksman and Charles Bry about the block limit and see what they think. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU on February 25, 2013, 11:54:43 PM Although I was somewhat worried when I first heard a hard fork was needed to raise the 1 MB limit, I'm quite confident right now that we have plenty of time to come up with a solution that would generate enough transaction fees for mining to be profitable even in the distant future, the network to be decentralized enough that it can withstand any kind of disruption and still create the largest transaction capacity possible. I believe the whole thing is largely overblown right now. Once everybody calms down, investor confidence will remain high. I do agree it will be a good thing to hear this from the core dev team themselves though. This, 1000 times this. I'm quite confident that, when the time comes and after thorough research and discussions, Gavin & core team will propose a consensus solution that 99.99% of the community can live with. BTW for hints regarding developer sentiment on this topic, you might want to follow #bitcoin-dev. Jeff Garzik also has a blog post today, presenting his viewpoint which I consider quite lucid and mostly agree with (except for the "2" constant, which will undoubtedly be fine tuned into something else): http://garzikrants.blogspot.fr/2013/02/bitcoin-block-size-thoughts.html Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Monster Tent on February 26, 2013, 01:46:02 AM Although I was somewhat worried when I first heard a hard fork was needed to raise the 1 MB limit, I'm quite confident right now that we have plenty of time to come up with a solution that would generate enough transaction fees for mining to be profitable even in the distant future, the network to be decentralized enough that it can withstand any kind of disruption and still create the largest transaction capacity possible. I believe the whole thing is largely overblown right now. Once everybody calms down, investor confidence will remain high. I do agree it will be a good thing to hear this from the core dev team themselves though. This, 1000 times this. I'm quite confident that, when the time comes and after thorough research and discussions, Gavin & core team will propose a consensus solution that 99.99% of the community can live with. BTW for hints regarding developer sentiment on this topic, you might want to follow #bitcoin-dev. Jeff Garzik also has a blog post today, presenting his viewpoint which I consider quite lucid and mostly agree with (except for the "2" constant, which will undoubtedly be fine tuned into something else): http://garzikrants.blogspot.fr/2013/02/bitcoin-block-size-thoughts.html Quote jg: "it is a mistake to increase block size simply because people are too lazy to implement layers on top of bitcoin." This I agree with. Apps that use bitcoin need to change to be more efficient not the underlying protocol or not without a damn good reason. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Zomdifros on February 26, 2013, 09:51:22 AM Although I was somewhat worried when I first heard a hard fork was needed to raise the 1 MB limit, I'm quite confident right now that we have plenty of time to come up with a solution that would generate enough transaction fees for mining to be profitable even in the distant future, the network to be decentralized enough that it can withstand any kind of disruption and still create the largest transaction capacity possible. I believe the whole thing is largely overblown right now. Once everybody calms down, investor confidence will remain high. I do agree it will be a good thing to hear this from the core dev team themselves though. This, 1000 times this. I'm quite confident that, when the time comes and after thorough research and discussions, Gavin & core team will propose a consensus solution that 99.99% of the community can live with. BTW for hints regarding developer sentiment on this topic, you might want to follow #bitcoin-dev. Jeff Garzik also has a blog post today, presenting his viewpoint which I consider quite lucid and mostly agree with (except for the "2" constant, which will undoubtedly be fine tuned into something else): http://garzikrants.blogspot.fr/2013/02/bitcoin-block-size-thoughts.html Great post by Jeff, I completely agree with him. The nice thing about the whole block-size discussion is that if the biggest problem we have within Bitcoin right now is hardly a problem at all, it must mean the system is incredibly strong. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: felipelalli on August 31, 2014, 06:49:57 AM Any news about this?
Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: ArticMine on September 01, 2014, 02:48:15 AM Any news about this? No not much. Here is a graph that illustrates this issue very well. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400235.4680 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400235.4680) The prediction is that we will reach the 1MB blocksize limit somewhere between March and October 2015. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: AGD on September 01, 2014, 05:42:27 AM R.I.P. Satoshi.
Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Window2Wall on September 01, 2014, 06:21:37 AM Any news about this? No not much. Here is a graph that illustrates this issue very well. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400235.4680 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400235.4680) The prediction is that we will reach the 1MB blocksize limit somewhere between March and October 2015. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: Marlo Stanfield on September 01, 2014, 03:37:43 PM If anyone knows Satoshi, getting him/her to come back for a little to see what they think about the block size issue we currently have. As far as I can tell 3 things stand to eventually destroy Bitcoin and allow another currency to take over. 1. Will transaction fees be enough to secure the network forever? Will miners make enough from TX fee's? This is important because everyone gives a different answer, from TX mining will be plenty profitable to Bitcoin will not function properly after 2140. 2. The blocksize issue, This is causing a divide, it would be nice if Satoshi came here and described what he/her thinks would be best. 3. The Satoshi clients needs to have a option to only download the past months worth of blocks, with maybe the network rewarding those who keep full nodes working. I guess within a few years 99% of users will not even try to download the entire blockchain. Only banks and govts will have a full copy of it. It will be the centralisation of a decentralised, ex anonymous, coin. It would be a good thing if 99% of users were using thin clients. But it's never going to be just banks and governments running nodes. Lots of enthusiasts run nodes on their computer or they run one on a VPS. Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: EndlessStory on September 01, 2014, 03:43:40 PM Satoshi went away suddenly..more like disappearing. Hope he comes back and handles bitcoins :)
Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: sifter on September 01, 2014, 06:17:31 PM I know nothing about Satoshi. Did anyone actually know him? as in see him day to day? Could have just won the lottery, could have died, in a coma, or 'taken out'. Who knows... He might still be here just lurking with one of his alt accounts Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: dankkk on September 01, 2014, 06:22:32 PM he'll come back :-\
Title: Re: Could Satoshi come back and tell us what he/her thinks about the block size? Post by: jjc326 on September 01, 2014, 06:23:34 PM Has satoshi ever said why he won't appear and give input as HIS invention gets more and more popular?
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