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Nope.

Maybe... if I could manage bankroll...

...But still nope.

It's not easy.

I could. Playing live in China I made bucks. Could support myself. But I don't do as well online. And the bigger problem is the wife and kids tie me down, can't be travelling to the most lucrative games ...

Someone once asked Negraneau where he would play if he was to just grind cash games, and he said Macao. Now he would play Macau because he needs an English game. But the underground games in China are even fishier ...

There's a difference between +EV and making a living.

9% is believable for +EV, definitely not for making a living.
It's also about playing with the right people, you are the 9th worse player in the world, you will make money if you play against the other 8 that are even worse.

PokeStars is trying to fight back against "bum hunting"..  ;)

I'm gonna getcha!

I made some money playing on poker freerolls online where there are 1000 to 5000 players playing. I made it to the top most of the time. Playing poker is more about waiting and proper calculation of the cards and your opponents. It's 100% profit for me because I don't invest any money at all. Poker is 90% skill and 10% luck.

At even at 9% seems a bit too high for them to win as much to make enough to live off of.
I would think more like 5% would be about right stat for this.

How much you win to play freerolls against 1000-5000 players? I believe you need to spend so many hours to finish on top of the freerolls, as long as your profit is worth enough with they time you spent so it is OK.
I would prefer to play on GTD tourney or ring game rather than freerolls with so many players, because I know I can t spend so many hours on it.

i played on betcoin 5 hours for winnings of $30, not worth it for the time but still took profit. Im in a different time zone also so i do be falling asleep playing till 5-6 am in morning!!

Better to just play the daily BTC or a tourney of value.

I won more than $3000 that started from freerolls. Now I'm playing with gtd tournaments. But I still love playing freerolls because it is risk free.

I'd say the real number is <1% tbh.  Even smaller nowadays with bad rake and bad player pools.

Can't really bum hunt on Pokerstars, there are great players even at the 1cent/2cents tables.
What I was talking about is only applicable in live poker.

I think most professional poker players can make a living if they are playing against other human opponents. But you can't really have an advantage against playing against an online casino.

It's not making a living obv, but over 160K micro-stakes cash game hands, I have a win rate of 15.3 BB/100. Like I said, micro-stakes. Slowly building up a comfortable roll to move up to small stakes.

It's not easy to make a living by gambling on poker. 9% is really small though, only pro player who can do that and of course you need big bankroll.

gambling is not a way to make a profit at all and not for anybody. even if you play different game than others like playing poker you can not still make a profit from gambling it is just too risky. but poker at least gives you a better chance if you are skilled to make a profit.

I don't think even the pros can actually make a stable income with Poker.

Where did you get those stats from ? Playing against the user instead of house is what traditional poker is all about. Doesn't mean it was always fair.Remember the scene from snatch ?

i'm not profesional gambler so i didn't make living from gambling too regarding your questions i was only playing online poker and i didn't do it everyday only if i want so i was never counting how much profit do i made from playing poker because sometimes i had lost too from poker games

It is really hard for me to make fortune while playing poker online, i mostly do it to have fun when i have some extra time than i play poker but not to make some money for my living there, i don't believe that 9% of people are living just to play poker because there is prize pool is not have attractive amount only few and more less than.

I am telling honestly i won few time sin poker. I will not play this game regularly but when i played this game i won few times i was not loss much money here. According to me playing Dice game is better than that playing poker game. In poker at least our strategy will work but in Dice games nothing will work all depend on luck so there all loss only.

I only play poker for fun I am not good enough to play poker and make a profit out of it. It is just not for me I am sure that there are many people other people who can make a profit out of poker but do not even know it yet.

you can't living by gambling especially in online poker even though you have good skill when play poker game but in only all condition are different. imo if you can win 9% from your bankroll isn't big enough because you can lose more than 9% in game poker.

No i don't think this to be true, i haven't seen any glamber claiming he have won poker without any negative bankroll and living off from the poker profit. I don't know what you like to show comparing poker against slot machines  ??? i don't find any realtion between those two.

So you think the real life poker professionals are just all scams and lies?

Everyone has been lied to?  ::)

Poker is a game where bets are against people, not the house.

For example: Some casinos are better than others - maybe you bump into a bunch of drunk guys who literally gamble and don't even try to beat you. In the long run - you always come out positive against these types. Pure gambling is the complete opposite. Yes you have some gamble and luck in poker just like in anything else you do in real life.

Then you get more complex players so you must be better, etc.

You might want to Google. ;)

Being a poker professional doesn't necessarily mean that they're making a living off of it. 

There are a few, but I can confidently say that well under 9% (my best guess is <1%) of poker players are able to make a living off of it.

A lot of the more known poker pros are staked and are actually in make-up. 

why? because it is hard and we have a life!
learning poker is hard and takes time to become a good poker player and even then you are still gambling and taking risks with your money so there is still a chance of losing money.
all these other games like slots that you named are easy, and they don't require us to learn anything so we can have fun while we gamble.

But you also learn why you play poker - so it is a why not case.

But I understand if you like gambling in the dark it is personal preference.

all kind game of gambling are less winners than losers , no matter it is poker (against people) or general casino games (against house edge) a losers are much more than winners.

i agree with dogedigital opinion/argument about a poker players who able to make a living from poker table, very less people can do it. i my self is a bad poker player who never earn good money from this game.

Yup like anything else in life!

Very funny this guy though - you can't be a pro unless you are living from it - the definition of a professional.

I do not have much experience in that so I think before getting into there I should have to learn more , otherwise I will lose all my money at there, By the why poker is much nice and is full of entertainment but before investment I want to learn more .

No this is not correct.  There are many who play poker full time professionally and are still not able to make a living off of it.

A lot of poker professionals are in make-up.

as for me only play poker just for entertaint even i've got profit it doesn't mean i could make a living by playing it. I dont expect much, poker is the one of the gambling that needs skill, so if you want to earn much just increase your skill. And right now i'm playing to increase my skill.
But if you are a pro you could buy everything you want, JetPlane, Women, Villa etc

It would just take too much time to play enough to get that far, your whole life would revolve around poker, and that's not something I would want.

Its a skilled based game only if you play it against other humans and are better poker players then them. In a online casino, its not skilled based just lucked based.

I don't know about 9% - not saying I believe or disbelieve that figure, but for those that say it isn't possible to profit or make a living playing poker, check here : http://www.officialpokerrankings.com/

Just click around and you will see that many, many people are easily making profits and earning a living playing tournament poker. Many others make a good living/profit playing cash game poker as well.

With poker I am not that able to earn a living but with that the winnings and losts make me neutral, and when I calculate all my bets at that I comes to a conclusion that I have lost the same which i won.

If you are good at mathematics and can count cards why not? My memorizing is not so well, I can play poker well sometimes but if there's a good player in the table I don't think I can beat them. The fact is you don't know your opposition, so playing against players might be sketchy. Playing against house means always loss in the long run though.

I have never made profits while playing poker as I win at initial stage but in long run I loose everything so now I have stopped playing poker.

The problem with poker is more people would profit if the rake was lower. Its such a small edge game that adjusting the rake would bump a lot of losers in to winners. Think the reason you see so few winners is to be a good poker player to some extent taking a bit of balls and the line is thin enough that if you got to big of balls you go broke easy.
Other aspect has to be psychology and how we play to our limitations.

Not me, but my friend he is doing most of the time to playing poker
and he's get a lot of btc, yersteday he told to me, he win his 3.45 BTC

profit of any gambling game can't be calculated it can get to 10% up to 1000% but there is an objective to reach and don't do it randomly with that you will have a nice profit you need to be optimist and be satisfy with what you got, and for poker the profit is up to your skills too so if you are an amateur you stop at 10% profit because it was your luck but if you are a pro you can reach 100% or more if the luck in your side too.

That is another thing to watch out for, some people will play a very safe game - very tight - just enough to earn rake back which can end up being thousands back per month.

Online poker is a whole different strat vs live.

You better use a HUD if you play online or you are already behind..  ::)

Oh really? Like who?

You might want to consider looking up what professionally means.

You could lie and call yourself a professional but be a loser yes.  ::)

If i sit and wait for great cards which is BORING

then I profit it seems everytime. Most people are impatient and will
call with marginal hands and need to get lucky to catch premium hands

the problem is.... is its so boring I would rather actually work than grind poker.

I only play to have fun now here and there and call with fun hands to call with 10j
etc. Its just to much of a grind if your waitin for aces kings a/k

I got profit from poker just because I often played freerolls where I collected and used the prize from freerolls winning to join tournament. I rarely using my money to join poker tournament.

i am not exactly an expert or professional poker player but i am average at poker but i have never had a good chance of winning in any online poker games because i am playing against a monitor not a face :)

but whenever i play poker with my friends that are at the same level as me i have a better chance and more fun because i am playing against a face :)

You would probably do great at a casino that has a lot of traffic then - Fri-Sat nights with the drunks.

This is why I dont like playing any real poker, since I can't bluffing my opponents :D Yeah the main method to win in real poker is poker face, but in online casino you have to analyze the probability in every card you hold.

Not really you need to use a HUD or you are already behind.

A HUD does a lot of the work for you.

Dictionary:

following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime:
a professional golfer.


Let's use the dictionary definition then shall we?  ... but let's replace 'golfer' with 'poker player'.

Although their primary job is playing poker as a profession, with the amount of rake taken, and the increased difficulty in available poker games, they simply do not make enough to make a living.

Surely living with poker is not easy at all.. to become a job you have to study a lot and a good dose of luck too!

Yeah living poker is not easy. For me its just my hobby and sometimes i can win and sometimes i lose..  if you just living with poker you can't be rich..
Poker is for entertainment and its just for fun.. maybe other people are just lucky to live with poker or they are a dealer...

All games what we have in casino's that all entertainment games only and also money losing games. Not only in poker honestly i will tell in poker i have not loss more money but i loss my money here not much, According to me Poker is nice game here we can use our methods nad make money here it's a mixture of strategy and luck both will work out here. But in gambling there is only few gamblers will become rich rest of all poor only.

Yeah, all gambling games are not the way to get rich, not only poker. We can play poker without any money, but absolutely it wouldnt be fun at all :D Thats why we have to bet our things like money or another valuable thing to make poker become more fun. But most people have mistaken it and considerate it as the job and the profit as the salary.

I playing poker for many years now and always loved to play online. Sometimes I won some money with big tournaments or sit and go tables but after all I lost more then I ever could win back. It's so time consuming because tourney can easily take 6 or 10 hours before ending that this give problems in private life. So I stopped with playing daily and only deposit small amount with paysafecard once in the few months.

well for me poker is the best game ever , I will share my stats with you guys and you would know what I'm talking about
I'm 20 years old and started to learn poker around 1.5 years ago , I'm not making that huge profits but everyone starts at somepoint right !!
I'm still learning the game and trying to move up in stakes passively while of course trying to keep profiting
I started playing at ACR 1.65$ SNGs last August I guess and now I'm in 5.5$ SNGs . here is my ACR graph so far

http://i67.tinypic.com/o85ift.png

you can see my avg ROI is 13.8% during 1668 games
last month I moved back to Betcoin cause the bitcoin price is now more stable and it's trending up , so it's better to play for coins now I guess
here is my graph for 357 games

http://i65.tinypic.com/2l8ghea.png

and finally here is my SWC graph , I occasionally play some MTTS there cause the traffic is low there

http://i64.tinypic.com/358b70w.png

so as you can see it's possible to make money playing poker and with good ROI unlike other games , and let's not forget the rakeback  ;)
I'm still a beginner but poker isn't a get rich quick thing , the most important thing is to keep learning and moving up slow and steady

there is a strategy for poker unlike playing dice so i'm sure poker players have their own profit strategy, they are doing math before they do call.

It is not for everyone to get living from poker or any type of gambling.There are professional players but what when they meet other professionals.There is surely someone who going to loose.I have been in gambling but for fun and making small amounts.I don't think usual person like us can get living of gambling.

Count cards? I don't think that when you play poker you have to count cards like blackjack! Of course you have to be good in math and statistics

There is an element of "counting cards" in poker. Knowing how many "outs" you have, helps you to quickly calculate the odds of you making a playable hand and whether playing that hand is justified for whatever situation you are in.

I think this will not work, like when we play real poker. with our bot difficult to count cards.

I can probably profit from it but not from online poker, somewhere down the line it just doesn't feels fair but the live table poker I would definitely make good money with it but here's a thing, you need a good amount of money, so that you can wait and take tolls of blinds until you get a good hand.

What do you mean, "... this will not work"? This is standard for anyone who plays poker, even amateur/recreational players.

As far as bots, I love playing against bots. Bots are the most profitable to play against.

I have never made any profit in poker. I do not know any such person who has played poker profitably. I have always seen people losing in this game. But I have seen movie in which some students earned huge profit by counting cards. Still need to learn that technique.

have you seen the post that I made two hours ago ?? it's possible to win in poker but you need to study the game not just deposit and throw your money without knowing what you are doing
for me I know a lot of people online who are making good money of poker

You should check out some of the sites which offer long term stats on players for millions of hands over years.  The sites take a cut but there is room for players to make profit just like in sports betting.

OP says 9% of people win in poker, im not sure its that high long term.  It really depends on the games also think about it.... If you had a 9 man cash game with 1 hugely bad player and the rest decent, its possible all the other 8 players are making money and the bad player is also basically paying for the rake - in that example over 90% of players are winners.

Poker you can not play just based on luck like other casino games.It is purely skill based in which you use different types of strategies just to win by realizing other you have best cards in your hand.You can make money till you play someone more better than you.

Cards aren't important most of the time vs overall game play strategy.  If you play very weak players who dont understand the card very well then you can just play them via math.

math is good for poker, but even more is ability to read people.
their body language, their patterns, just being able to sit down. play slowly unnoticed, till you have the nuts (best hand)
not being readable, and being able to read others very well. also really good at math.

alot of magic the gathering players turned to professional poker,
because in magic the gathering, over time, good players can see more wins. and in poker its the same, if you play alot and oyur a good player then chances are your abilities will show themselves.

me, im not that good at reading or hiding my hand. so i try not to play.

honestly i dont love poker,and its why i never playing poker for bitcoin,i will glad to play dice game,its harder and faster. in poker you need experience and knowledge,but dice just need lucky ;D

In poker you can't "count cards" you are talking about a  entirely different card game.  :P

Well yes for some it is or can be profitable but for the most of us it's just a game used to divide attention and sometimes got some winnings too ;)

Where did you find this percentage information? 9% players can make a living just by playing poker seems to be so high imo.

It is a very hard number to figure and anything you find online is rough estimates.

Some suggest only 1% of people can play poker professionally but I tend to believe closer to 10%.

It also depends on your location and where you play... A LOT.

Online and live have different skills so that is possible.  Many of the live pros today cant get things going online, some of the best in the world even.  There is more psychology in live play.

Just use a hud! Or you already behind..  8)

For cash games:

Sit and play at tables where the players are not as good as you are at poker.

Don't sit and play at tables where the players are better than you.

You're welcome.

Agreed. And i dont mostly play games like this because some say it has patterns and sometimes high stakes players often bully people with smaller amount of money.

Poker is profitable but as i said its only luck for small time players like me.

Well, poker is a player vs player game. Take out the house rake (1-10%), and you're left with 47%~ winners and 47%~ losers in any given session. Now, take into account that there are some who are good enough to consistently win, and that hurts everyone else's odds, but at low stakes/levels? I'd imagine there are a good number of us here who can profit. I just started playing on Bovada and I've been consistently winning, personally.

How to know, where the players are better than you?
If playing poker its depends on luck too, because good card does not always win.

One of the most important, perhaps THE most important skill of a poker player is sizing up your opponent. If you do this well, and are disciplined, you can consistently take money from players who don't size up their opponents or play as consistently. In rounders the lead character quoted Doyle Brunson: 'You don't play the cards. You play the man.

If you believe luck of the cards is important for your game, well, just hope you have fun while spewing your chips.

Poker is a game based on strategy , luck and guts.
Sometimes I can make profit by bluffing or I'm work with my partner to win the game. When I got profit, I'm share with my friend

Yes - poker has some luck in the same sense the stock market does.

Most people can't make money from stocks, but that doesn't mean it is a gamble.

In life I guess we just gamble our minds - our abilities.  :P

i dont think so, its not that easy , one with lot of card calculation , experience, dedication and bank roll would make a huge profit but i dont think all the time one can make a profit with the poker . you need a good calculation and also always bit of a luck :)

How can we know if the players at a particular tables are experienced or not. The better option will be to first become experienced and then play save by making save moves :)

for me to be honest it was the number 1 , if not dishonest in making money , not to be rich !  8)

I don't think I am a profitable poker player. I don't use any specialized software to keep track of my played hands nor do I analyze any statistics of my plays whatsoever so I don't like to play cash table games where a lot of patience and reading skills of players are required. I play poker mostly for fun and not for profit and I prefer to play in tournaments where buy-ins are low and the reward is great. I do believe the real profitable poker players play cash games though.

Data mining and software will show you if they are good or not.  Data mining sites will show you their winnings/losings - i dont know what is available in bitcoin poker as regards these tools.

What about tables where players pretend to play worse than you at first to make you bet big, then take everything from you?

It is a common scam

"Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker."
 - Mike McDermott, from the movie, Rounders  :D



True. And there does happen to be one betcoin poker site which is supported by the two main poker tracking software companies. (Hint: see my sig below.  ;))

i like playing poker but i have never thought of it as a money making method even if it is possible and others can do it. i will never consider gambling in general as a good way of making money, it is just to risky to bet and invest in gambling.

That is very true. In gambling mostly no one can win money on regular basis. So instead of gambling for making money, just play for fun and entertainment without worrying whether you can win or not then surely you can enjoy the fun part of gambling. I never played this poker but sometimes I will bet in cricket games and so for in profits. But I usually choose most confirmed games and will not worry much on odds.

Poker is too much of a game of reading other people for me to do well at.  I don't have that gift/talent.  I would stick with games that are just based on numbers and odds.

Playing poker is not easy games to make your bankroll profitable and also manage it. That's way you must playing smart than the other players in the table. But It depends again with the cards that you hold, So playing poker not only rely on skill but your lucky too.

I like poker, but I prefer play guaranteed tournaments. I can benefit a lot from the tournament. because by playing tournaments I play sometimes be very careful

I doubt the percentage you give is anything near real number unless there's a source that I'm missing. I've lost most of my money when I used to gamble in real life with playing poker games. It's the hardest IMO and requires to have some sort of luck as well plus the whole playing style of players in terms of confidence and the way their face look has a saying on our decisions as well, in which most of the time are misleading.

yeah, although i want to add that i think if there is a gambling game out there that anybody can make money from, that would be poker. because it requires a lot of skills and manipulation of the opponents and it is not just based on luck like other games.

yeah true that poker is not always rely on the skills, because if you do not have much luck maybe you will get bad card.
so luck is needed for all games

It is possible would just need more research.  You cant judge the % based on your own personal results.  If you are "gambling" when playing poker you are mostly approaching the game wrong.  Pick weaker opponents and play them for as long as possible = you win.

At the time i think i'm not good, but i'm getting there, hoping some time i get to prove myself in a live tourney with some good and experience people, there i'm gonna qualify myself... hope to get that profit soon..

One of the most exciting games in casino is the poker game, because when you play poker no matter how bad you card is, you still can win your bet with a strategy, so making profit with poker is not fairy tale, but you need to be patience and read your opponent strategy

Yes this is true but you might not realise but in casino poker every hand the cards are reshuffled. So you can't "count cards" and also you can't see your other opponents because they are halfway around the world or you are playing against a computer so you can't bluff.

I like to play poker for fun and to increase my skill, mostly i took part into free-roll tournaments and at the moment there are some best casinos offering there to learn poker and increase your skill without any risk, still i have no luck with poker all time i got busted in the end.

Honestly speaking if you are playing against the live players online or offline you can use your skill and strategy and win games but playing against the house or casino then 99% you will be in loss, i play with live players in fortunejack and i am in profit.

I definitely can't. I know the rules and how to play but I'm just bad at playing it. When I play with friends (just for fun, not using real money) I usually am the one with more luck, but I still end up losing  ;D

Took a part in freeroll tournament also will help get some free money from winning in each tournament if you were in number payment position.

yup, it is ok even if you never win cause you will still get to enjoy the free game and can even learn from others how they play.

What?  :P

You can be lucky but lose money i guess he means, as in you get good cards but dont get paid off.  A good poker players gets the maximum value out of good cards and the minimim losses out of the bad cards.

I like playing poker but I am not that good in it. Playing for money is just not for me I think that I could not handle the pressure and I would easily lose without a doubt. So I just keep playing poker for the fun.

actually I always lose in the game of poker. Well I did not know to play poker, but I always try because it looks really cool. until today I lost in a poker game

it's still luck needed even you play player vs player , i would call 50% skill and 50% luck. so i doubt there is more poker winner than loser. due the fact every kind of gambling are about luck no matter it's poker or house edge platform. i myself not getting any profit for playing poker. one day i won 2btc and another day i lost 3btc.

I think not only luck and skills are need also you need to be satisfied what you had and dont be greedy because this is the reason why people are still lossing their bitcoin because of greediness.. so if you are willing to make a profit you have all of this things..
 skills luck dont greedy and be satisfied..

I never played a lot of poker because I think its still wasting time, I played it a couple times and lost the most times.
Maybe its because I'm not good so that can be the point..

Win one big hand per hour.. ;P

Yes even i too play in Fortunejack and it will work out i made some decent profit not huge profit.

I agree with both Luck and strategy not 50 - 50 it may luck 80 percent and strategy 20 percent will work in poker game that too normal players but for experience player can work out this 50 - 50. I am not that much experience in this game but it is good game to make some money.

I used to play local physical tournaments in my home town and did pretty good several times, but I feel like when ever I play online I end up loosing everything.  You have a lot more competition online (a world of people) and it can be tough to end up positive. It sounds easier than it is, even just playing the pot odds, you can still loose it all in the end.

I haven't made any money, what so ever, after playing poker. It has always ended in loss after loss. I urge all gamblers out there to control their longings and remember that their money is on the line.

I can play poker but I think that I am not good enough to make a living out of it. I just play for fun and just with friends not at the casino with peole when I play poker it is about having a great time. So when it is serious about money it ruins it a bit for me.

I do not gamble at all these days because the fact is that gambling is just very difficult to do if you ask me.
I gamble sometimes and with poker there is sometimes profit but most of the times still not.

Same with me, I playing poker just for enjoying my time to meet friends and play with them and if about the profit if got some profit then i will play again with that profit and withdraw the money i've deposit.

You never know what you can win with it and that is the problem of gambling you also dont know from before what you are going to win and that is the problem.
And if you want to win with gambling you have to be really lucky otherwise it will be not possible for you.

You can of course make a lot of money with gambling, I really have no doubt about that you can make nice profits with poker but its difficult.
Its also depending on the luck you have.

greedy is part of skills in my opinion , how we control our desire to win more and more i called it as a skill so 50% pure luck and the rest are skills , i don't believe things that determine our winning in poker mostly are because of skill , there is luck still have take part more than any other things.

I don't think it is 9% of all poker players who can earn enough money to live a decent life out of it. It is most likely 9% of the very best pro poker players who can do it instead.
Don't kid yourself, poker is very popular game with millions of people playing everyday. If you think you can beat most of them the go ahead, try to be pro poker player. I know I can't.

I don't agree with his statement either. 9% sounds way way too high considering the amount of millions of poker players around the world. Maybe its less than 1% or 0.1%

You can make profit with gambling but the most are not doing this for sure because its luck you need and the most here will not have that.
Poker is played with tactics but its still based on luck.

Why do u say it's impossible to make a living out of poker? Are u kidding me? :D
Go to 2+2 forum or any other poker related forum and you will see hundreds of topics of people journeys that are actually playing poker for living. I'm having coach by myself and I can honestly say I'm surely on the way to make my living out of poker. People are still uneducated nowadays, in the 21.st century..
Another example is go to twitch.com and go to the poker section, all of those streamers there are hundred thousands in profits (u can check it in their bio)..

actually the number as I have heard is really close to 10% when we are talking about profitable players
but these profitable players may not be living from poker . maybe they are making 200$ a month in this case they are good and they are profitable but they are not living from it