Bitcoin Forum

Hi

I am new in Bitcoins, but I represent Wirtland and I see a lot of synergy for promotion of bitcoins in Wirtland. Wirtland is the largest web micronation which has about 1500 citizens from all five continents and growing fastly. BTW in 2009 Wirtland became world's first micronation to produce its own physical gold and silver coins. More info on Wirtland can be found in Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtland_(micronation) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtland_(micronation)) (and from our sites, see bottom)

Recently a Wirtland member from Greece posted on our forum that Wirtland may be an ideal place for mass use and promotion of Bitcoins. Do you agree there may be possibilities for cooperation or at least for cross-promotion of Bitcoins in Wirtland?

If yes, I suggest to use this thread to develop consolidated cooperation proposal which can be sent to Wirtland.

Thanks,

Vic

PS. If moderator considers my thread irrelevant, feel free to delete.

Bitcoin seems to be an ideal currency for Wirtland. No formal cooperation is necessary; just start using it and/or declare it an official currency. Formal cooperation is not even possible considering that there is no formal Bitcoin organization and no one in control of the currency.

Bitcoin and Wirtland are two entirely different "projects", but they fit together wonderfully. Wirtland is looking for an ideal system for a global, electronic currency. Bitcoin is looking for members and a user base in which has purpose to use Bitcoin on a consistent basis.

Wirtland and Bitcoin do not have to work together for this to work, either. If a proposal is made towards Wirtland about Bitcoins that they like, they can adopt their new currency without any necessary permissions. Just run the program and start your financial venture.

Bitcoin businesses automatically become businesses in which "Wirtizens" can spend money. At the same time, it's another 1,000+ members that become users of Bitcoin if they're dedicated to their online community.

I feel Wirtland has a lot fo gain by adopting Bitcoin, as does the Bitcoin community, and all that needs to be done is convincing Wirtland that it will be beneficial for all parties.

I had a passing thought a while back that there could be many 'brandings' of bitcoin, but dismissed it as pointlessly confusing. It might work to get possibly non-crypto-minded Wirtizens to adopt it.

It would go like this:

Wirtland administration checks it out, sees it is legit and is a great idea.

Someone modifies the client slightly to say "Wirtcoin" or something and a new logo, etc.

Wirtizens trust, download from the Wirt site, and adopt.

It would essentially be the same as a normal government declaring gold or something to be the national currency and stamping some of the coins, but accepting any standardized gold.

Sure, I don't mean anything but changing the words and logo, the client would function exactly as normal. Not a new chain or different rules or anything like that. And bitcoin should be mentioned somewhere so people can meet us if they want to ;-)

Just start a web based digital locker for wirtizens and they dont even have to download a client if they dont want to.

You dont need any permission or collaboration to do anything. Thats the beauty of bitcoin. :)

If you want to invent a "free micronation", don't define an official, mandatory currency. The more free people are to adopt new currencies the best.

That said, I think bitcoin is the best possible currency available today, to my knowledge. :)

And the idea of a "Wirtcoin" label over it is nice.

"Wirtland Bitcoins" would be a better name than "Wirtcoin". If you don't have "Bitcoin" in the name somewhere, it will lead to lots of confusion, and that will hinder uptake.

In some areas of the USA where patriotism is high every other company is sticking America in it's name to cash in on some patriotism. Someone should make WirtlandBitcoin.com or Wirtcoin.com or Bwitcoin.com or Bwirtcoin.com or something and set up a site similar to Mybitcoin there and market to Wirtlanders.

I dont think "mandating" anything is a good idea however "suggesting" something is perfectly ok. A suggested currency for a wirtlander might just be bitcoin.  ;D

If you provide people the tools they will use it of their own accord if that is the best choice for them ie the market decides. Education is always better than Mandation.

My apologies for naive questions (which probably have been already answered somewhere), but they are important to explain Bitcoins to Wirtlanders.

- There are web exchange services where people can turn virtual currencies into cash and vice versa. Are there any such services for Bitcoin?

- Are there any banking institutions which work with Bitcoins?

- Is there a list of merchants who accept Bitcoins?

Thanks

The markets have just been hit with fraud and are not open to newcomers right now, solutions are being researched. The trade page has a list of merchants.

http://www.bitcoin.org/trade

bitcoinmarket says "closed to new registration" on the front page.

bitcoinexchange.com does Euros. I think it's up and running, but I haven't used it.\

There are more than I realized, not sure how many are running. Try this list. http://www.bitcoindirectory.com/exchange/index.php

Also http://www.bitcoindirectory.com/ (http://www.bitcoindirectory.com/)

(shameless plug)

I used it recently and it worked fine.

This got my attention, and want to know more about Wirtland.  Can you describe your experiences thus far?

Though I understand the idea to create "rebranded" bitcoins, it should be recognized that this trend follows in the footsteps of a long history of state subversion and control over free market money.  In What Has Government Done to Our Money?, Rothbard describes:

Having acquired the mintage monopoly, governments fostered the use of the name of the monetary unit, doing their best to separate the name from its true base in the underlying weight of the coin. This, too, was a highly important step, for it liberated each government from the necessity of abiding by the common money of the world market. Instead of using grains or grams of gold or silver, each State fostered its own national name in the supposed interests of monetary patriotism: dollars, marks, francs, and the like. The shift made possible the pre-eminent means of governmental counterfeiting of coin: debasement. (http://mises.org/money/3s3.asp)

Bitcoins are Bitcoins.  Though Wirtland sounds like a organizational affiliation based on voluntary consent , I think its important to recognize that everybody in the Bitcoin economy is better off keeping the language as simple as possible. 

XC

Keeping bitcoins bitcoins has a lot of advantages. 1) It's simpler and enables higher awareness, adoption, etc. It avoids a whole lot of confusion. (i.e. the mexican Peso was never rebranded to mexpeso..) 2) For wirtland citizens (and I will be applying soon ) its also better. If they want to trade outside wirtland, keeping bitcoins as a name avoids confusion.

Net, if Wirtland does not really require to have a different name, keeping it bitcoins is a win - win.

I'm convinced, I no longer recommend rebranding, not that I matter too much.

Well, I enjoy my Wirtland identity, I also have a plastic ID card from Wirtland. I have made a contribution to the Wirtland project by creating a network of Russian-speaking witizens (i.e. citizens of Wirtland). I follow Wirtland news.
What else? I have Wirtland gold (see pic below) and silver coins. Occasionally I wear my Wirtland sweater  :)

By the way, every witizen can submit articles to Wirtland's newspaper.  I think those BC-enthusiasts, who join Wirtland, should suggest some material for publication in "The Times of Wirtland" - to explain Bitcoin, etc. Just an idea...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/silo.grou.ps/userimages/witizens/20100809043532-bnlfsbvllfkjqlywz.jpg

I didn't know about Wirtland.  This surely seems like a nice project, especially on these times where nations are trying to force the idea of a world government.

With increase communication possibility, the urge for a territorial domain in order to maintain a large human organised society decreases.  Thus, a supra-territorial organisation seems logical.

It's not new, though.  Somehow, one can consider organisations such as freemsonery ("franc maçonnerie") to be some kind of supra-national state.

Still, it's a good things such projects developp.   The more they are, the better they will be able to counterweight the raise of world government.

So far, Wirtland seems to be an early version of a 'phyle'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Age#Phyles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtland_(micronation)

And the coins look awesome.  How can I get some?

Writcoin and bitcoin exchange market!

Maybe they could sell them for bitcoins?

Yesterday I read a little about Wirtland, and I'm sorry, but I still don't get it... I didn't read too much so maybe I'm missing something, but, if you people can't be free from the state laws of the place you live in - and, as far as I understood, the wirtland project doesn't intend to do so like the seasteading project for example -, so, what's the point in it?

Some people are happy with virtual country, but for those who want more there are bigger plans - read this:  http://wirtlandinstitute.blogspot.com/2010/09/how-to-sell-square-mile-of-wasteland.html (http://wirtlandinstitute.blogspot.com/2010/09/how-to-sell-square-mile-of-wasteland.html)

Personally I don't agree that Wirtland has anything common with a cyberpunk novel or fantasy. It's not one of virtual worlds, not a game, and not intended for entertainment. We prefer to discuss down-to-earth, pragmatic subjects. That's why I'm asking practical questions about Bitcoins -- because we want Wirtland to be useful to its members.

I agree with Vic.

I'm guessing you didn't read Diamond Age. A phyle is pretty much exactly a voluntarily-joined non-geographic state. Unless I don't understand, that's what Wirtland is aspiring to.

I had read about this proposition to Nauru and all. It's interesting, but... even if works out, you'll remain subject to the laws of the state you live in...
Besides role-playing, the main reason I'd see for trying to fund a new nation is to live under new laws...

But Wirtland is not about abandoning your current laws and your country. It is about getting additional possibilities, which come with Wirtland citizenship. Yes, each citizens of Wirtland may be subject to his home laws, but as community Wirtland is subject to its own law only. It's not hostile to any real countries, it's actually indifferent to them. That's my understanding. ::)

I think wirtland ranks alonside the seastead as a viable alternative
http://seasteading.org/ (http://seasteading.org/)


They are also creating The Shire Society in Keene, New Hampshire.
http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?board=30.0 (http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?board=30.0)

That's right. See below:
(source: http://www.wirtland.org/)