Bitcoin Forum

Oh my god. I spent an hour writing a even more massive post just to get logged out of the session and everything got erased. So mad right now. I'll just keep this short..er..


I live in Sweden. It's a part of the EU and it's a f...king fascist piece of shit-country controlled by the utterly stupid EU. Just let me give you a quick example. Every year we pay around 5 billions in charges and "taxes" for being a member of the EU. Total we get back every year is around 3 billions. Every year 2 billion dollars go missing, just for a f...king member fee. That's stupid.


Okay. To my situation

I bought around 1850 bitcoins when they costed $1.8. Oh marvellous days. I still remember it. Anyway I bought bitcoins for a bit over $3300. Bought... I'd like to call it an investment. It's probably one of the best I've done. And will have done, maybe. OK:


Today, they're worth around $54k. This is a great amount of money to me, but I'm not gonna give it up just yet. I believe in bitcoins. If I were to sell my bitcoins I would probably have to use some kind of SEPA, Swift, IBAN, Wire, or whatever-transfer to my bank-account. Well. If I do that I will have to pay like, 38% of it in taxes because Sweden sucks :)
(and if everything goes like i want it to; I don't dare to think how much it could be worth in the future) well.. if I don't pay what they demand in taxes I'll be sentenced to prison for four to five years or have most of my belongings repo'd. A rapist, if he would get caught (and that's a very slim chance, woohoo for crime rates in this country) would get around 2 years in prison and that's it.

The thing is, I don't want to support this shitty country and it's shitty, utterly stupid f...king banks with a penny more than what I already have. I'm fed up with it. Done. "But why? U some kind of nutjob?"

Maybe. But you see, where I live, in the northern parts of Sweden, we have had just about enough of these stupid banks and how they think they can rule over us. For example. Banks won't accept any cash. Why? These are the reasons they love to say: 1) The environment is taking damage from transporting cash. We won't support that. 2) Robbery risk is so high today so we can't just risk our employees.  Well do you know what they do instead? They refer any customer trying to transfer cash to their bank-account to a grocery store or 7/11 or such. Like they have better security than a frickin' bank?! "Oh, but thats OK I guess, the grocery store can "bank" the money anyway."

Nu-uh. My dad owns a grocery store and I'll let you into a little secret. In our safe we have just a bit over $1000 in 1 kronor coins. 1 krona is about 16 cents. And we have a thousand dollars in them. Why the hell would you have so much coins in the safe? Because even though "we" are a company, we aren't allow to transfer our money through our bank. Isn't that messed up. But oh yes. The banks still refer their customers for any cash deposit or management to us and our store. It's just a matter of time before robberies will happen more and more frequently. What's easier to rob? A bank or a grocery store? It's like begging for problems if you ask me.

The banks wants each and everyone of us to only use their credit cards, this might sound nutjob-ish but I really get the feeling that they are trying to take full control over our lifes. Money, cash and coins still have a value as long as Sweden doesn't crash and burn. Numbers on a webpage, what are they worth? Nothing.

And well. The government wants it's own share and since we are with the EU, the banks also follow orders from that stupid shit. You can't deposit more than maybe, MAYBE $500 before you need to have a reciept or something specifically saying that this money is "legit". And even though you have some kind of reciept or whatever, they'll report it to the SKV (IRS in the states) for a closer inspection and so the government can adjust their taxes and steal just a little bit more money.

I will never support this fustercluck of a system and so I am stuck with my bitcoins being, well, bitcoins. Is there anyone who have any kind of suggestion on how I would be able to cash my bitcoins out in the future? Preferably anonymously so I won't get a letter that says that I am to appear in front of a court because I've allegedly evaded taxes.

So to my problem:

I'm not really going to do this right now, but in the future, how do I "cash out" my bitcoins to money again? It's like bitcoins prefer to be, well, bitcoins.


I've thought of a lot of things, but I can't sell them online because that will be some kind of transfer to my bank account, and the pure amount of bitcoins is well.. A lot. 1850 of them.
I then thought maybe I can sell them locally. But no. It's 99% for internet transfers there too. Plus the sheer quantity is just massive. Sweden's bitcoin-ers, we are of a small stem. I can't bring in 340k swedish kronor here without going to jail with it, or pay it all away in taxes or be imprisoned. I have no ideas left, but I would be really really grateful if anyone here has a solution.

If possible, I want to maximise my own security from the gov because I know that if they would find out I would either go to jail, get my stuff repo'd or some sick shit like that. What the hell should I do? I refuse to pay away my own investment in taxes. I have no idea what kind of things I would need for this, but if someone has some kind of suggestion, please shoot!!


"If you think the government doesn't care about you; try stop paying the taxes"

I have searched here but it's just giving me non-related results and not even google is helping. I'm guessing this problem is quite unique to Sweden.


TL;DR: How do you sell a big amount of bitcoins without risking your ass in a fascist piece of crap country?


Sincerely, C9.

You could move out of Sweden? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm getting the impression that you're not fond of the country. :P

Anyways, taxes will probably be a problem regardless of country. And with the volume of BTC you have... well, most online exchanges have limits on transactions to cap the amount you can sell at a time. You'd have to do quite a few micro-transactions, I imagine. Cash would be the easiest way to avoid a tax issue, but the volume is an issue there as well (as you said yourself).

You don't want to just hold on to the Bitcoins? I can't imagine too many options you have to choose from. Except maybe opening a foreign bank account?

Something here, perhaps?

http://www.offshore-index.com

Think about how would you liquidate $54k in gold, and you'll get the analogy.

Don't know if you would like this idea, but you could deposit some of them in a Ripple account (effectively converting them to XRP.) They could then be withdrawn through a gateway like Bitstamp in whatever national currency you please, whenever you want them, in whatever quantity you wish.

Step 1.  If the country is that bad, leave.

Step 2.  Do not sell the bitcoins.  If they become as popular and valuable as you seem to think they will become some day, it will be because they can be used without having to sell them.  You will just spend the bitcoins for the things you want to purchase.

I have the same problem in the United States.  Except that here the long term capital gains tax rate is 20%, if you are not too rich.  I'm going to pay it.  Problem solved.

It has been my life's ambition to have a large long term capital gains tax bill.

The long-term rate can possibly be 0% if you're in the 10-15% tax bracket. Just a heads up in case it applies to you. ;)

Maybe take a short vacation to a less socialist country that's nearby.  Is it easy to bring Euros in Sweden and then sell them a little bit at a time?

Also, it appears that Rick Falkvinge might have some experience selling BTC in Sweden.  He might be willing to provide you with some advice.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2011/10/virtual-currencies

Very simple
Take a train ride to neighboring country; cash out and bring it back; deposit small amounts every weeks back into your accounts.
I would recommend that you keep a good portion though in btc.

I think you need to go p2p... https://localbitcoins.com/country/SE

Ya man. Go p2p for cash.

Of course, the best method is likely to spend your coins on items you would purchase anyway.
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

For things where bitcoins aren't (yet) accepted like rent, utilities, food, local retail purchases that won't help.

Are Euro useful to you?
Bitcoins In Berlin will send them via the mail to you.
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoins_In_Berlin


Not just an analogy, but another idea.

You can buy gold and silver bullion with bitcoins, and then trade the bullion locally for cash.

There's also another method.  Kapiton.se is a market exchange.  I don't know if you need to verify your identity to register and use that exchange.  Let's say you don't.  You can then trade BTCs to SEKs, but then not withdraw anything to your bank.  That will give you the ability to convert BTCs to SEKs so that you aren't further exposed to the BTC/SEK exchange rate risk.

Then at some future point in time, you can offer to sell bitcoins for cash, and when you find a buyer you simply use those SEKs in your account at the exchange to purchase bitcoins at whatever is the current exchange rate at the time and withdraw the coins for delivery to your buyer.

Another popular method with setting up offshore accounts, is setting us a credit card linked to that account. That way you can use the c.c for your daily purchases in your home country and the bank a/c and money is overseas.

Chaining qoutes and replies, like a boss.


Yes, you are absolutely right. I'm not so fond of it. Well, I don't want to sell my bitcoins as of today, I'm guessing we will be experiencing a dip after the next difficulty level raises and there's some influx because of the speed of the asics, but that's really good for me. I will invest a bit more if my theory comes true.

Ah yes, the sheer quantity is a problem.

Ah. Sweden's been cracking down on offshore-ers. They've signed treaties with most countries on that list. It's still a good idea though! There are still some countries that doesnt give out info.

Well, bullions of gold and such is pretty standard in the US, right? Here it's not. I just can't think of how anyone would have $54k in gold here in Sweden. Over the decades we've been stripped of our rights as citizens.

Very intresting. I glanced at ripple, it looks promising! Will look that up further.
I will move. I do need to liquidate BTC100 for the move, but that shouldn't be that hard. I also have a job which I don't need to be physically at to do, so yeah. I've been planning to move for a couple of months now.

It's possible to bring 10.000 euro legally, but honestly, I think it's possible to bring more.

Ah, interesting. I wonder if it's possible to get ahold of Rick.

Ah. Yes that's a valid theory. I could cashout €10k every time, that's what we're allowed to bring back and then siphon it back into the bank account over a year or more. Slow but possible.

I won't sell my bitcoins at the current rate. I believe in them.

Yes but even if I did, what are the payment forms? Cash? Also, I don't think it's possible to sell all of it, the market is kinda limited.

No or well. Yeah. I am currently looking for a method to cash my bitcoins out, but that's simply because if I were in need can get myself some food with kronor, but I can't get anything with BTC. That's the sad truth here. I won't cash them out right now, as I've stated above. I'm hoping for it to be a widespread and known currency, but I fear it'll only take place as the king of online currencies.

Yeah. That works if people pay by cash! Thanks for a good reply everyone by the way.

Yes. I could use the Euro here in Sweden, well, decently anyway. So that would probably work, but I'll check it out more later.
No. Trading isn't a vial method here in Sweden. I am yet to see any business accept it. Or well. Actually there's a door company that accepts bitcoins. But yeah... Doors. Kapiton needs verification, but it's a good idea.

I'm a newbie in this matter. Can I just be honest and tell them "Yes, I invested while BTC was low and now I wanna deposit the cash in here" or do I need to have some kind of reciept like in Sweden, it feels like any bank would like some proof of it. The money is mine, but I mean.. That's all I can give them for proof?



Thank you all for the speedy replies, it's much appreciated. As I said in the beginning, I've been planning a move to some warm place, however, wouldn't the same rules apply for like Spain, Thailand, Indonesia or something? :)

Mm. Yes I've been thinking about that too.

Consider buying gold with the bitcoins and have it sent to you physically. Gold is easy to sell under the table.

Maybe this would be something? http://www.phun.org/newspics/funny_friday/4924.jpg

 ;)


Bumping and asking for opinions here!

Hahaha good one!

Yes. Weight at the equator is about 0.5% less than it is at the poles.

You just need to find a way to transport the gold (or anything else bought/sold by weight) at a cost less than 0.5% of the purchase price.

Taxes are what is going to give to your city streets,hospitals and basic services...
The problems aren't the taxes,the problems are those individuals who steal our money by asking us to pay double the taxes so that they can take the bigger part and put it in their pockets...

Taxes are THE MOST VITAL PART OF A SOCIETY nowadays !
If you don't pay taxes , EVERYTHING COLLAPSES !!! EVEN YOUR BITCOINS !!!

Don't play the role of the "anarchists" people...Bitcoins will be regulated too or else this whole thing will hurt everybody...

I mean, who do you think there is behind this ?? HACKERS ?? You'd better call 'em ECONOMISTS/BANKERS !!
LOL !!!

Imagine the day the government shuts internet down,or the day your ISP steals your hashes out...
It's gonna be reality soon...

Interesting read

Need a service that sends you checks
We have cavirtex and canadianbitcoin here
Also no government should have control of the internet heck that would be a war for me if it ever happened in my country
Stuff would go down that day but so would as many alternate paths around the block as possible :)
Reread it damn that's a challenge
Guess Plan X
Go to Another country for a trip and vacation meet up with a bud use their address make an order on their exchange for a cheque
Cash out at Western Union or Moneybank or Payday loan or make a banking account in a country that has strict name protection and then deposit it, or Plan C Same as above but go to the US and use localbitcoins
Either way your on a vacation while selling bitcoins as a reward for your smart investment XD
And you can diversify your currency lol if you keep travelling around using localbitcoins haha

lol