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I had actually thought about this before when I had invested some Bitcoin and Dash into Crypto-Games, I owned like 10 to 15 % of all Dash invested on the site and would play dice with additional dash.
Some days I would earn 1 dash from my investment, take my investment out and play, profit more and invest again.

You have to keep your investment there for 24 hours before you can withraw it, so there are limitations to that strategy. That and you don't always win :)

Not sure if the post is about the actual discussion or just promoting moneypot and bitvest.In that case,the title is miss leading.
Anyhow on topic,I'd choose investing over gambling anyday,why ? Shark-tank is my favorite TV Show these days.No seriously,investing on a casino is much more profitable if you apply the logic of "Aquasi Investment".Good casinos (like the one in my signature) provide mutual benefits for the investors rather than a very little form of equity.On the other hand,you're on your own responsible of the funds while gambling.The risks are too serious to take.If you're convinced of having terrible luck,better stay away.

Yes, investing on gambling sites is a safer way to reduce losses. But most of the gamblers wants more funds to play the games and they are not worried much about whether they can win or lose. Just they want to spend more time on gambling and because of gambling addiction. Your way of investing and gambling with profits is safer but it takes quite some time and for addicted gamblers can't wait that long. But there is no guaranty that if one invest on these casinos they can make profits for sure also.

there is a few things when i start to invest in casino, my amount take quite a huge drop cause a whale come in and take a huge hit on the bankroll. however, through time, the profit slowly come in and overall i am in the green.

Well if you were investing to increase to get a knockback you could insta divest with no fee.
Wait till it quiets down then reinvest later an continue what you were doing.
Note that not all sites have insta divest an no fee's on early divest.
So id target any site that don't charge on divest, there is a few on the forum.

an investor in a casino bank roll is not a gambler. he is smart and it is a very smart way to invest

an investor who will invest and divest according to his gut feeling or a whale is visiting the site > he is not an investor > he is a gambler!

a gambler who will the same time invest while gambling is actually holding the bank roll against his own bets. to make it easier to understand lets say the gambler holds the 100% of the bank roll and is wagering against his bank roll. what happens is if he loses while gambling >his investment will rise and vice versa. does this make sense? not at all and I would advice to this guy to play a game he likes with play money just for fun.

a gambler likes to wager/gamble so he is never an investor and never will be because he wants to win from the casinos/investors bank roll. thats the fun for a gambler

if you will understand all my points (sorry for my english) then the best a gambler could do is............... yes just think about and let me know what this could be? I know some smart gamblers they are doing it :)

Interesting idea, if a new site ever comes up I'll try this out. However, for current popular sites I'm nowhere near rich enough to hold the bankroll :P

All point and the idea that you provide are extremely useful and interesting to interpreted, but each of these investments also requires understanding the deep enough, to a site that will be given fresh Funds (investment). If it does not do so then the idea that you give, I think will not work

it looks you did not understand my posting and explanation ( please read it again until you understand it). it just does not matter if a gambler is investing 100% or 1% in the bank roll he is wagering against > it just does not make sense for a gambler to do this.

and if you still don't understand this important point and the difference of an investor and a gambler just do it and wager against your bank roll and learn it the hard way

there are roulette players who are using martingale on red/black and starting out with a base bet on red and black the same roll. I asked why are you wagering on both sides? their answer was that they want to be on the streak with the first bet. would this make sense for you? I bet yes

In my opinion, Investments are profitable if you are doing it for longer period and with a high amount and in a reputable and successful place. But if you want quick money and don't have enough time to wait for the profit, you can go with gambling. I prefer both of them but in the end, depends on the situation of the person. :)

~Dr.Famous~

hi Dr Famous

what is your take of sparkeddev posting above? I will answer later :)

that really gets funny now

edit:
@ sparkeddev please edit it next time like this under edit would be fair to all to see the mistakes you did ( not a shame to do mistakes )

Both investing and gambling are risky and one may lose money in both. I agree with your above post that one may need some decent time to make money from casino investments and also may lose some of your money if anyone win big in this period. But I don't know how one can make a fast profit from gambling? Because here two probabilities are there either can make quick profits or can lose all your money quickly. Gambling is very risky and mostly one can lose money so don't consider it as a fast money making option.

It is true. Investing on casinos are less risky when compared to gambling. If want to takes some real returns on our investments, then need to find a couple of good casinos to invest and to reduce our losses diversification of our investments is very important. Gambling is always very risky and very less chances anyone can make money out of it.

I don't think many understand the the point being made in the OP.I forget people barely read the OP in the gambling boards.
@Sparkedev : I get your point.Either way,you can't benefit from both the instances at the same time.Let's assume I made an investment of 2BTC with ROI something like 1% every two days.I can have a nice stable income if I keep gambling as a whole picture out of it.On the brighter side,if I gamble 10% of my initial investment away,there are slime chances of keeping up with the profits.However I can always gamble with that 1% I make from my initial investment.

Also,lock the thread if you aren't planning to lose your mind over hilarious answers.

You just have to choose between the two if you are really serious, investing gives you a chance to gain more profit but it all depends also to the amount of investment. You need a considerable amount to have a good share of income in any sites you invested. This is more safe than gambling, so I suggest that do only investing.

lets try to do it KISS (keep it simple.....

are you saying that it is better to wager on bitvest than on plinkpot.com?

are you saying that a gambler who invests and gambles same time according your example has a +EV?

I don't think so. a casino has always +EV and that means a gambler is wagering with -EV

if a gambler wants to lose less he just need to wager less and no reason to invest and gamble same time to get a smooth ride into losses.

any simple answer is very much appreciated and no reason to complicate simple math because you cant bend math in your direction. a HE for the casino and/or investors should be enough and that means that an investor should not gamble and he will always be on the right side.

investing then gambling is a great idea. i used to be like this too. i invest and manage to get some profit then i try to use my profit to gamble. so in the end i lose in gamble but overall i never gain or lose anything.

very interesting idea for sure but first of all if this works it would be an exploit. besides i doubt if it works because you can't be the only investor so you will only share in the revenue, so losing in gambling means just earning a small amount back and all this effort is just for a little cash back, and all of this is happening while you are risking a lot of bitcoin twice!

thank you for this posting :) maybe it helps other users to understand that it is either investing or gambling

if you want to earn = invest

if you want to gamble so gamble and have fun and hit big

Make huge profits trading/"investing in" altcoins, then use part of the profits to gamble.  ;D

that is what i always heard from others, but how do you know which altcoins to invest in?

Good question, since there are so many:
I can trade anything that moves (either direction), since I play short-term bounces much more than longer-term "investing". Note: That is not for everyone, since it takes extra time & effort, and many big moves are missed.
To find "decent" alts look at the top 25 in market cap, and study some of the older ones since they are not in an initial rally which will turn into an endless bear market.

this is really not the topic that is being discussed here boys, read OP again!!


to @OP have you ever tested this yourself or are you just theory crafting?

Honestly its either comes down to using private funds your adopt later down the road.

Or you use the publics bankroll - and make up for whatever is missing with your own. But the question remains is what if a competitor decides to crush you being a whale, having them to clean you out.

It sounds shady to do, but I seen how business is done behind the scenes but its logical.

The problem is that casinos not resell to investors 100% of the shares. Often it happens that for sale is issued only 20% - 30% of the shares. So if you had as much as 100% of the shares allocated to investments might be that you have only 30% of house edge. In this case, your idea does not seem to realize ..

I think that this wouldn't be a bad idea, and it would slightly reduce your risks but it also lowers your reward. You would need a very large amount of bitcoin though, so I don't think most people would do this.

Some sites like Moneypot have their bankroll funded 100% by investors. (MP does have bitcoin invested, just through their public investment feature.)

thank you for pointing this out and to be frank I was waiting for OP to find this out by himself

An this is what i mean even if they site has 30% of that investment its still publicly able to be won.

you can write as big as you want and it will not help. sadly you did not answer my questions a few postings before

is this what you are asking or proposing +EV for the player? my answer is no! a gambler is gambling against his BR? come on get real

it just does not make sense for an investor/gambler to gamble against his own investment

a gambler will always lose in the long run against a casino's +EV

an investor (in a casino BR) will always earn if he is not cheated out of his money by the casino

easy as that

At this point i'm just going to assume you have no clue what the op means an ignore you because it states why you could an would do this.
An as far as i can tell your not giving a reason at all why this is a bad idea the first thing you started off commenting in this thread was its better to invest then gamble.
As i said again an again is this is a way to get knock backs on betting, by using your investment to do so, not sure how this leads to mass loses if you were going to degen a lot of btc.
Why does it make any difference at all, if your invested a playing verses not invested in playing i asked thoughts on the combo not on just one.
Only difference i see is the other investors get less of your loses an you get that btc back you might have never seen again.
An can continue having longer game play. Id rather walk away with half of what i started with at the end of the day with none.

if this is the only reason you can give for using a combo (as you call it) then it is stupid to do this combo. a player can decide with how much he wanna wager today and tomorrow and whenever he wanna gamble. he doesn't need a combo to lose only half or win half!

if you like the combo so do it but it does not make sense and nothing will help you or your maths

and you did not answer why is bitvest better than plinkopot.com?

How does the math not make sense okay.
Lets say an any site pot is 100 btc.
You invested 100btc.
Now you have 50% of the pot minus site fee's.
So now you play have 100 btc that you were going to degen anyways.
By the end of that you have 140-150btc because you lost to your self plus the other investors.
If you planned on just playing 100 btc an lost your whole bank roll you have nothing.
This is a way to get back what you have lost, so as far as i can tell that's good math.
Pretty sure that's a way to stop losing 100% or your loses.
This is a method your betting that you will win an take the other investors funds.
I believe there is a few sites who use margin based investment which raise the limits.

In most cases why do gamblers stop gambling? Because they ran out of funds.
In this way you prevent losing everything you planned to use for that day.

I never said once any site was better then another not sure where you drew that conclusion from.
You made the same claim before when no where in this thread have i stated any site was better then another.

If you have 50% of the pot you dont have 140-150 back, because pot it is only 30% of casino earnings. When you play 100 btc and you lose eveyrthing, coming back to you 50% from 30% so you can have around 114 - 115 btc.
If im wrong about pot - please show me casino which sell 100% of shares.

In other words - you say that from 200 btc you have ~115 btc - I say you lost >85 btc.

Like someone said, keep it simple. You wish to invest in some casino, for example. And later you think to go to same casino to gamble.

So lets focus on big win: If you win big, money would be gathered from investors ( some percent`s from you also ) and paid to you so you will have profit from big win, and eventually some little loss from investing in casino.

But if you lose then part of your lost will go to you back cause you invested in that casino..

I don't think that can work. Only good thing about it is like you said you will not lose 100 % cause in one moment you will receive money from investing in casino. What are you doing is nothing more then rotating money, and in that I think you will have more loses then winnings.

exactly what I was saying before (btw it was me saying KISS)

it just does not make sense to do what OP is asking or proposing or believing in

yo could also tell gamblers to wager on plinko games because you don't lose 10% in each bet and you get always something back lol

does it mean the bets are +EV? yes but for the casino and not for the gambler

it was a very complicated formulated question bu tit has a very simple answer

It does not make sense!

OP is thinking only about winings, but should think about loses too. Of course as you guys pointed that loses will be reduced by % stake in the casino. But untill you don't have >51% chances to win, you always will be losing. Your way will be just a bit longer..

There isn't a 30% house fee in any public investment based site ive seen an if that's the case you rob shouldn't be betting there.
Im talking about sites that are 100% public investment base an they only take 0.25%-0.55% fee on gamblers loses an the other 1.15% go's to the investors.
An i am factoring loses that's what this theory is based on getting knock backs on loses.

If your going to degen your going to degen, this is a way to degen an get back some on each bet.
Lets use dice as an example you lose 100% of your bet if you lose, if you were invested you would have get some back.

This increases what you get back if you lose, that you would have lost 100% of.

I'm using the examples that i know of sites that only take fee's on the loses of gamblers not investors.

It clearly states you will lose some to investors but with this method you can keep a % from even reaching them.
An if you get a decent hit it don't only take from you it takes 50% from the other investors.


But he is talking like every game is the same same its clear because he is using +ev an -ev which is mostly used by poker players.
Personally using bitvest as more of my example because you can make your own lines.
There is a few investor based games you can change up the odds an in plinko which i have a better understanding of this is a possible solution.

He is talking as if all sites are the same when they are clearly all not, im talking about 100% publicly funded games are casinos.

1. I'm not talking about 30% fee, i'm talking about 30% shares to buy (invest).
2. 100% public investment - yes, please show me one casino with 100% shares for sell. ( If there is casino with 100% public investment, It is called crowdfunding)
3. Let's take extream situation - When you buy more and more shares, finally you have 90% of casino ;)
- this 90% was worth 90 btc
- in hands of other investors is 10%
- house edge is 1%
- casino fee 0.5 %
- you play for 100 btc and you are only player in this casino
how do you see your earnings?

Bitvest is 100% publicly invested they only take 0.55% as a fee an allow instant divest.
Bitvest shares the house edge with investors 1.15% to investors an 0.55% to them only on gamblers loses.
So if 10% was only owned by other investors your getting back depending on the game your playing you could get back over 85% of each bet.


Ill use this as an example:
https://i.gyazo.com/6c9cb01da06f54da9ce026c4c068da0e.png
So lets say you lost on this line you own 90% of the investment because you can only lose 60% of that bet on that line.
You get back 40% from bet an if your 90% or w.e % over 30-50% more thats taking the sites 0.55% fee into consideration.

So the site only gets 0.55% fee only on gamblers loses an most the edge is given to the investor.
You could see how i came to this conclusion since its truly 100% public investors.


So another example would be if a gambler made a 100btc drop the site from that play would only get 0.55 btc.
The other part of the edge 1.15% go's to the investors, that's why i only brought up the the sites i knew of.

I feel a bit stupid now.. I don't understand this counting..  ::)

Lets take easiest example with same data.

you bet 10 times 10 btc each bet on red in roulette - 10 Times in row is coming black. You lost 100 btc.

I think first move of casino is taking 0.55% fee, so 100 btc - 0.55% = 99.45 btc - this is to split between investors. If you have 90%, to your pocket is coming back 89.505 btc (99.45 * 90%)

So 100 - 89.505 = 10.495

You lost 10.495 btc

 

you asked me to show you where you talked about bitvest so please read your postings. you can't bend maths and 1+1 is always 2 and therefore we love BTC

or you are telling me that your option is +EV for me as a gambler and I will come to gamble at bitvest 24/7 and not plinkopot.com

Oh. Ok. So all this thread is about that risk is less when you invest in casino? I don't think so.. ;D

In case of winning in this 10 bets raw (10 bets on red, 10 btc each, 10 Times in raw coming red) you have to cover your own winning from your own (investor)pocket, and yeah let see how much you can get:

Start with 100 btc + 100 btc from winnings - 200 btc

100 * 90% = 90 btc from your pocket + 0.55% casino fee
90 * 0.55% = 0.495 btc
90 + 0.495 = 90.495 btc

100 - 90.495 = 9.505 btc - your earnings

In my opinion this sword cuts both ways, and wins only casino - always plus 0.55%

As i wrote before with your idea way to lose everything is just two times longer then normal way..

Many of us are interested in gambling cos of its fast profits. My biggest goal since now was on dice with a bet of 0.5 btc on x4 but i lost the half on same dice again thus i remained with 1 btc which i owned the half already so I wonder how much you guys gaining for this method.

Yeah but does it not provide longer game play an knock backs instead of losing 100% of ever bet your losing only 10% or so.
You can decide at that point if you want to continue, i guess in my eyes its better to lose 10% of a bet the lose it all.

But that's why i asked peoples thoughts on it, i was just going on numbers i know since bitvest is where i came up with the theory an looking at other plinko based sites.
if you invested on bitvest its like 92 btc, if you had 100 btc invested an were going to play you could get at least 80+ % back from every bet.
An if you hit big you get a chance to take from the other investors who would have about 40% of the pot, but as i see it are mostly looking at the loses.
Ive seen many people pull big wins on plinko sites just based on how the multipliers are set on all them you will get some back every bet in most cases.



As of now this is more of a thought i personally think that's why im asking what peoples thoughts are.

This thread people are discussing about investing on the casino to make profits along with casino instead of gambling directly. Gambling looks an easy way to earn fast money but if that is true, today we might not be seeing so many casinos around us. If we realise that, then we will come to know the real fact of gambling is people always lose and casinos will always win. So gamble only sometimes to enjoy the fun part of it and if you're lucky then you can make some quick profits but no guarantee for benefits.

No we are talking about the combo of investing an gambling at the same time to get knock backs as a possible source of extending gameplay long enough to get good hits to attack the investors investments.

I would say focus only on one venture and definitely that is not gambling. In my opinion investing is the best way to do, by investing in an online casino you will have a good profit sharing in the total pot money. We already know that the house always wins so can already expect a good profit of your investment. The only thing you need to consider and must carefully evaluate is what site are you going to put your money.

We have a lot of gambling site to choose from today but you cannot just pick blindly as they might also go bankrupt or scam your investment the worst. You need to treat it like doing a feasibility study on your own business prior to the actual operation.

This is exactly what I plan on doing soon. Rather gamble with my investment interest then risk the whole bank roll. Then u can make a slightly higher return as well.

I do  know it's about security but most of the things you can do with gambling involves risk. Too much for some people to let it bypass. While some believe in it's potential.
For me the potential is there, however find a right investment is very hard.

this isnt about finding the right investment next time read the op before posting.

Well he posted in the "Gambling" section so we know that he wants a high reward high risk investment. Maybe not pure gambling but something that will make him more money then keeping it in a savings account.

It really only depends this theory is basically a way to get knock back if you a higher roller player.
It can be used on lower sites where the investment is also low, but the point here is getting knock back off your own bets.

Cool idea. If my logic is correct, having 5% of the bankroll will nullify the effect of a house edge. Anything more would mean +EV.

On the contrary, owning 5% of the bankroll usually means you get 5% after the house cut. I'd estimate it to be about 20%, meaning that you'd only get 5% of 80%

Well thats does depend on the casino i know of a few that give most the edge to the investors.
Bitvest being one of them its 1.7% edge investors get 1.15 and site gets 0.55% the rest is based on how much is lost and your share of the investment.
Then again you have to read sites carefully because some take the full edge on investment based gambling sites as a fee.

I'm pretty sure this could be a universal game plan tho i tried it with dice, plus there is other methods that can be stacked with this to get even more back out of it.

Thanks OP for creating this topic as i have heard about investing in gambling sites and playing but i had not experience or idea about it, some of them said it is bit more risky to invest in gambling sites and better to play, but after fully going through your thread now i have a clear picture of investing in gambling sites as well as playing is good theory and idea. I will also try the same idea first with small investment and about the risk that is their in all investments that we have to take care.

It will be not the best thing that you can do with gambling and that is because if you are making an investment in gambling there is also a high chance that you can lose it.
So the best thing that you have to do is just to play with small amounts so it wont be that worst if you are losing some money with gambling.

If you gamble on a low-traffic gambling site that gives a large portion of the edge to the investors, you could easily become a big fish. You would win less, but also lose less. So it's basically softening your wins and losses. The question is - For better or for worse?

As i wrote before in this thread - it will softening your wins and losses, but slowly will be going down, because casinos fee always will be on this same level. In my opinion this "combo" makes that your way to lose everything is just longer then in classic way.