Bitcoin Forum

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/coinlab-bringing-bitcoin-to-wall-street-with-mtgox-deal

 

Amazing, this could be the best thing ever. Congrats Coinlab!

I wonder what matonis will say about this?

Wow. Nice going! I wonder how the bears will spin this into a negative.  ;D

Not a bear but this means more regulation.  Buy or sell on mt gox from the u.s. and everything will be reported to the irs.

thats what i was thinking.  i wonder if one could still buy directly from mtgox as a US citizen?

and i suppose one could still buy from an intl exchange.

THe way I see it, there are now, and always will be, too many good ways to get in and out of bitcoin besides MtGox for this to be a problem.

I want there to be a "we report to IRS" official way to get bitcoins, because then there will be someone to fill the role of being an exchange viewed as legitimate, to fulfill the need of providing liquidity and helping the market accurately reflect a market price.  MtGox's current shortcomings (understaffed, no audit, sometimes arbitrary delays and actions with your money, worry about whether they might have assets seized) have a negative effect on the bitcoin economy, we would all benefit for these issues to be resolved, and that can only happen by playing by the rules.

Precisely. If you want to buy or sell bitcoins without anyone else's involvement, try localbitcoins or one of the other exchanges. There are many ways to do it. Anything that makes the process of buying and selling more fluid for the overwhelming majority of US residents can only be a good thing. If it then goes a step further and institutes for Bitcoin the same insurance fail-safes of the regular banking industry (with or without a formal connection to a given bank), even better.

Regulation, when it comes to Bitcoin, will always be an option, not an obligatory quality.

Complying with the law and paying taxes makes sure that there is absolutely no legal ground for any western government to ban Bitcoin. No government would be able to bring the network down of course, but any ban would hurt businesses using Bitcoin significantly.

I can imagine a future where Bitcoin is seamlessly integrated in the existing banking world, with ordinary consumers hardly noticing the difference yet without ever having to worry about inflation. Only the early bitcoiners would still access the blockchain directly.

I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.

Wonderful, but where's my bitcoin ETF?

So frustrating to have money in my 401k, but nothing I can buy there to invest in bitcoin growth. Even a penny stock investing in bitcoin would make me happy. Right now the number of ticker options for exposing a normal trading portfolio to bitcoin is: zero.

Together with Google Wallet accepting Bitcoin, having a Bitcoin ETF would be the greatest step forward for our beloved currency.

I wonder how they handle this.

Many USD fund acct are not from US or Canada.

I wonder if it means MtGox is going to sell people's identity information to Coinlab.

-MarkM-

The part about adding a way to short bitcoin should make the bears happy. :)

Perhaps it'll be a "futures" exchange where bitcoin can be traded between parties that don't have any physical coins, lol. TPTB would love to have that, I'm sure!

Doesn't sound like anything is official yet. Mt. Gox has not commented on this deal.

Mt. Gox hasn't even fixed the typo in its Google description yet. I don't think a comment will be expected. Their PR is a mess.

LOL. You'd think with the amount of business they are doing, they'd run a tighter ship.

This announcement sounds like really good news, for all of us. Hopefully it will address a lot of the problems I've seen with mtgox, at least for US customers. If the 80% figure is accurate, that may help the rest of their userbase out as well, as the customer service issues should be cut by ~80% for the mtgox HQ.

Just finished reading the article a third time and besides being clear cut in the "good news" category, this is also a very sad day for Bitcoin.

For those of you wanting a return on your time and money invested in Bitcoin fine, you've just got it.

For those of you wanting Bitcoin to be decentralized and out of the control of international banking, this is the end!

1. Having an entity clearing all transactions in and out of Bitcoins for all Americans should make you wonder. The excuse of saving a few percent in bank transactions fees, should make you outright scream!

If you for a second let yourself allure into thinking that this is paving the way for Bitcoin adoptation and still preserving all it's strengths, you have not really understood what this is all about, and you could as well have invested in any other startup. Bitcoin is turning green, and I'm not talking about the lower power usage of ASIC miners, It's becoming the new Dollar, it is on the course to nationalisation of the worst possible kind.

2. Having a single business or a few, legally handling Bitcoin bank transfers in the US gives total government control of Bitcoin for all Americans.
I can't really understand that this forum where a lot of people would love to have less government control in general don't see the dangers of this.

3. Future Bitcoin users will conceive Bitcoin as an American legal alternative currency or asset and not as an international unregulated censor free internet cash payment system.

4. If Coinlab get's in trouble, do they get government backing or bailouts?

5. If a central entity handles money in and out of Bitcoin, how would that, with the help of marketing, not promote such an entity as the authority of Bitcoin?

Wake up, this is not the future you want for your children.

This could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how it plays out.  But what I have found about Bitcoin is that if it tries to be controlled by a central authority or government through a certain exchange, the core principal of Bitcoin will win.  Its decentralized and people using it will do what they have to do to avoid centralization.  That exchange will fall flat on its face...

Thumbs up Holliday, We gonna fight this. The Chinese won't care about such crap either, they have more "human rights" related uses for Bitcoin.

So when somebody has a mtgox account, what type of bitcoin will they theoretically be holding when the hard fork is created in the very near future.  Do they hold bitcoin within the original chain with the 1mb block size limit?  Or do they theoretically hold bitcoin from the next chain with the higher block size?  Or both?

Another thing: Having a central Bitcoin processor on American soil makes everybodys accounts on Mt.Gox at risk of siezeure under the current laws. do you wan't to tkake that risk?`Not much political FUD is needed for a total clamp down to sort out "suspect account holders and their transactions"!

That's why I qualified my question by asking what you are "theoretically" holding.  Once the hard fork is created and you then want to move bitcoin to a personal wallet, which are you going to get?  Bitcoin from the new or old fork?  Or will account holders suddenly going to have two separate accounts for each fork?

+1

Mt.Gox != bitcoin

It's like saying bitcoin is over because Mt.Gox was hacked at some point.  If you thought any "decentralized" currency wouldn't have anyone interested in opening up a possibly-regulated side industry then you have only been fooling yourself.

Anybody who keeps all their BTC at MtGox (or any other exchange or intermediary) must do so with full awareness of the risks they're incurring. If you're going to trade, then keep whatever you need to trade there, but with the multiple secure options now available to hold your BTC yourself, there's little excuse for offloading onto an exchange.

i actually have noticed this too; they seem to be all over the place with different projects but nothing substantive yet.

 >:( Backroom crony capitalism is what this looks like. The title of this article is a flat out lie, only wishful thinking. Coinlab has no deal with any “Wall Street” firms or major financial institutions.
Mark Karpeles the owner of Mt.Gox DID NOT do this willingling. This is the result of staggering behind the scenes legal and political pressure. Why didn't Coinlab just open their own exchange and compete fairly for the customers IF THEY HAVE SUCH A HOT VALUE PROPOSITION?
Ironically, this demonstrates that Coinlab and their backers don’t fully grasp bitcoins implications. Because thanks to bitcoin, my family, my businesses and customers don't have to sit idly by and be victimized by 'old school' tactics. We will not tolerate being kidnaped and secretly spirited back to economic tyranny. This might give bitcoin a short term boost but it is very bad for liberty in the US. WAKE UP AMERICA, we are being hemmed in, the borders a closing.
“Bitcoin is a global leaderless movement for currency independence and personal liberty" BitcoinATM

Respectfully,
Todd Bethell, CFM, MBA
949-394-5932
toddbethell@BitcoinATM.com
toddbethell@FASTScanning.com

I'd sign that pertition from across the pond.

Lighten up Francis.  Nobody has to use Mtgox or coin lab if they don't want to.

That was a long list of absolutes. You have anything to base them on or are you speculating?

For some people wanting to get into bitcoins, having the transactions reported to the IRS is a good thing. I am thinking of large investment banks or whoever, everything they do is already scrutinized and regulated, so if they can't do a regulated entry into bitcoin then they just don't.

ide rather they stayed in japan. ill be cleaning out mt gox before this deal  is completed.

I dont understand:

1. Do ALL funds of MtGox transactions go through Coinlab then or only deposits/withdrawals from/to US based customers?

2. What does it change for institutional investors?


Could someone enlighten me?

I wish I knew what all of the fuss and naysaying is about.  Conspiracy theories?  I say come on, having some sort of local (US) presence with some real necks on the line is far better than sending money overseas to a company who doesn't feel (or doesn't have time for) any accountability toward me.  I don't know this first hand, but I gather that MtGox is in over their heads and that Mr. Karpeles has no idea how to scale and turn various sensitive procedures he has historically handled by himself into ones that can be delegated to prime-time scale while remaining secure (a problem I'm familiar with), and is relieved to have someone come and take a heavy burden off of him (and pay him well in the process).  If I were Mr. Karpeles, I'd be scared shitless at the prospect that Bitcoin may explode tenfold in the next several months if it were my belief that my trusted four or eight or whatever guys are already swamped with the workload now.  Wanting to give the biggest chunk of my business to someone in a better position to handle it while still being able to lend and benefit from my acquired expertise would be the best move I could possibly think of.

Everything I read about this deal is consistent with what I wish would happen with MtGox.  I view this as entirely positive.  The risk of a problem with MtGox has been the greatest risk in Bitcoin's recent rise to stardom, and this is a plausible (and exciting) fix for that.  There will be more minds at work and more resourceful people risking their assets for this venture, and on the flip side, more talent and more ability to be responsive to problems as they arise, and more ability to deal with the growth.

Note though, I am coming from a perspective of understanding to some extent how business actually works, and not some pie in the sky fantasy of how MtGox should be some sort of anarchist stronghold waging some kind of cyber war with the big bad government and banks.  Those who are saying "this sucks, Bitcoin as we know it is ruined" ought to sell their coins now and get out while they are ahead!

OMG!  A well thought out and coherent post on the bitcoin forum!  There is hope after all.  While I am a little concerned about this transition with Mtgox (if it were to happen), I fully agree with the the attached post.  If a user feels that this business model undermined how they want to use bitcoin, they don't have to use it.  I think some of the authors of other posts to this thread need to take off the tinfoil hats and come out of the bunker.

Hi all,

I'm loving the discussion here, and appreciating the feedback. We got caught blind by the early announcement, so we've been heads-down today, sorry about that. I'll circle back this evening pacific time and try and hit up questions, perhaps in a new thread so that we can edit the head post.

Best,

Peter

Because not all of us have confidence in CoinLabs security capabilities (whereas post hack MT.Gox is pretty fucking secure now), nor do we know how this will effect liquidity, fees or any number of things.

On top of that, after using a particular service for 2 years, I don't like being moved to a new one (particularly with so many unknowns), much less with little to no notice.

It has nothing to do with conspiracy, it's just bad buisiness to wave off a huge chunk of your customer base.

Evolve: you'll be able to use the same gox interface. I agree with you on Gox' proven security, we'll have more to say about that soon.

It's not bad business to wave off 2 in the bush for 1 in the hand, especially if you know you got your hands full!

chimminy christmas.. and here us coinlab miners were wondering if this company was going to do anything with that gpu compute thing and the pool...

then BAM! they're the new mtgox.

I'm excited about this though. buying/selling needs to be made a LOT easier for increased trading.

You shouldn't own a business without first being prepared for success.

If you can't handle a business as the sole proprietor and employee, then hire people who can help handle the workload. If you are incapable of doing that, then you shouldn't be a business owner in the first place IMO.

Yes, but there is a difference between what people 'should' and 'ought' to do and the dreadful day-to-day reality where it may just happen that the right people aren't always in the right position. The market can fix that and it seems to have done so now.

Oh, come on. Have a little perspective. Scaling is hard. This CoinLab deal is a pretty decent solution.

Even Larry and Sergei brought in a new CEO to handle Google's mega-growth phase. Smart business operators realize their own limitations and proactively seek solutions. I agree with Mike that that's what Karpeles did here.

At this point, how many coins does one need to be considered the new wealthy elite?  ;)

Nailed it!



I suspect most of them have already sold.

I agree with casascius and I'd even go further.. I think this is amazing news.  At the same time I am kind of sad with all this good news floating in too soon....  before I could get as many coins as I wanted.

About 7.

a pertinent post I saw on reddit:

I'd put the figure at whatever number can be mined in one day.  This is admittedly pretty arbitrary.

So if one has, say, around 1800 BTC now, they might be in the 'wealthy elite' category in a little under 4 years.  If they don't sell or lose them, or if the system does not collapse that is.

Unless you place them in Lambert Investment Funds on GLBSE. In that case you would need 507. 500 to throw away on a fucking worthless scam with 7 saved to be the wealthy elite.

I can’t believe people here don’t understand that Gox is already in U.S. held territory. They are in Japan after all! Here's a link to the Japanese government’s official website: http://www.usfj.mil/ 

LOL

I guess we have a new metric to measure one's wealth: "BTC Mine-days"

Just to highlight some text from http://coinlab.com/transition


Presumably that is because foreign regulatory hassles are significant, and having a US partner to handle that is greatly preferred by MtGox.

I noticed tijan seale, former bitcoinica investor now is an investor at coinlab.

The expression 'glutton for punishment' comes to mind.

Actually this is pretty promising if one hopes to use Coinlab because if there is one person who is going to be demanding due diligence with an eye toward spotting technically incompetent clowns it would probably be Tijan Seale.  After the Bitcoin Consultancy set of fiascoes and all that.

+1

Bitcoin magazine states that the aim is to have customer's money moved to Silicon Valley Bank by March 22nd. The Coinlab official Transition Plan press release page states that they are aiming to provide services to customers on March 31st.

When US and Canadian citizens are able to do a direct bank transfer to buy Bitcoins I'm assuming this will remove a barrier to access and produce a requisite increase in the price of Bitcoin.

So my question is: what date will this capability come on-line for US and Canadian citizens? Please site sources if possible.

So instead of going Bank-->Dwolla-->MtGox-->Bitcoin, we in the US will be able to just go Bank-->MtGox-->Bitcoin?

This is terrible news for alll the CAN and US people who want to avoid using banks altogether.

All I see lately is more and more moves toward centralization and regulation. I started with bitcoin because you could circumvent all this government oversight garbage.

Sure but what other moats are as good for keeping out competitors and being able to point them out for persecution without being yourself the same kind of persecution target as they are?

There is profit to be had by sucking up to the powers that be, and more once that has worked in pointing out to them any competitors that have not sucked up as hard.

-MarkM-

Coming from an extremely anarchist viewpoint, I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

If Bitcoin were dependent on the actions of one business, or one government, it wouldn't be a revolutionary currency.

If Bitcoin can't handle this, then we'll find something that will.

I'm not worried.

I'm not worried about the change at all, but that's probably because I'm not cheating on my taxes by leaving out Bitcoin.

This. If involved in bitcoin keep perfect records and expect an audit. We're surely being watched to be made an example of

I am starting to have some doubts if this deal is even going to happen as it would appear that things are not going according to plan.

1) According to http://coinlab.com/transition (http://coinlab.com/transition), the alpha and beta phases were supposed to be completed by March 15, 2013, last Friday. Has anyone been transitioned?
Furthermore all the United States and Canadian accounts are supposed to be migrated by this coming Friday March 22, 2013, I am starting to wonder if this is going to happen at all.

2) There has been silence on the part of CoinLab for two weeks in their "official thread" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148147.0;all (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148147.0;all)

Vess haven't been online on the forums for 5 days. If I were him, I'd peek in to the thread to keep the community up to date, but what do I know, perhaps he's just busy..

What does this mean for us that are not from the US / CAN but want to trade in USD??

If this brings in some bigger players into the market bitcoin will easily be $100 by Christmass

AFAIK, nothing. Everything is as it used to be, only US and Canadians will be moved to my knowledge. But please confirm it with MtGox.

Your right but fortunately bitcoin will find a way to be more cheaply exchanged than the official exchange, if the offical exhange is in anywau ineffcent they will be arbitaged out of existance.... so they are doomed of they try anything funny