Bitcoin Forum

I will invest in this coin for sure ....

A Bitcoin fork by anonymint / tptb_need_war with modifications for anonymity! Very interesting!

I can say that my co-developer refused to allow the masternodes have the ability to unmask the anonymity. I was arguing for a simpler design but his standards of ethics on the technology are even higher than mine. Then apparently we were able to devise a solution so the masternode could not unmask.

I was arguing that the user could just mix numerous times, so even if the masternode could unmask one of the mixes, all the masternodes would need to collude to unmask numerous mixes. But my co-dev pushed for us to find an even greater assurance that the masternode can't unmask the anonymity. And we figured out how to do it.

I will excerpt what he and I wrote me in chat:

me: CoinShuffle does not scale.
me: CoinShuffle has a simultaniety requirement. Any one participant can jam it.
me: If you adopt CoinShuffle that is a death wish for the coin.
me: The coin will be jammed, nobody can use it, the coin will die.
me: Unless you make jamming costly, the adversaries will jam every CoinShuffle mix.
me: Afair, CoinShuffle requires forwarding each stage of the shuffle to the next participant. How do you distinguish between Internet connectivity failure and intentional jamming?
me: so then you can't confiscate a deposit if there is jamming
me: 1000 masternodes are guaranteed to be bought by the evil side?
me: We just need to decentralize mining more. My design is the spenders are the miners!
co-dev: i dont want to claim something is anonymous when a breach of data center compromises privacy
me: Dash has no problem with that. lol
co-dev: so that is why I say sparsely used massive number of virtual dcnets
me: I am not going to endorse anything using CoinShuffles and DCnets. I am fairly sure it will blow up.
me: I won't risk my reputation on such an experiment.
co-dev: i dont see why the submission to the masternode cant be protected in some way
me: I want a clean design that even if not perfect, we can be sure how it will work.
...(discussion of the solution)...
me: So the user can send their output to any masternode. So no one masternode sees all.
me: Okay great!!!!!!!!
...
me: Oh this is good.
...
me: I really like it. It is quantum computing resistant!
me: We can actually make this quantum resistant with lamport signatures. I already have the C code for lamport signatures on my github.

Edit: let me add that I know the logic from Monero and Zcash will be that masternodes can be monopolized by the NSA or other super power adversary. But remember there is no anonymity against such adversaries even with Monero and Zcash (due to meta data correlation). That is a delusion. The real market is bringing privacy to the masses. Which means you need scaling.

Evan Duffield

Now I'm curious as to how, and to whom, this goes....

I can't tell you how old he is. I swore to never tell. Obviously it isn't Vitalik. And it also isn't David Zimbeck, nor Charles Hoskinson, nor anyone from Bitshares.

Is it an ico ?

Sorry, i see now mining mentioned. Ok, well sounds interesting.

Satoshi ? and if so which one ? please tell me he didn't made you sign a contract to keep his identity a secret  :P

Perfect so is June.


It took only a year to finally get there.  Hardly wait to see all promises.

I am VERY interested.

One particular question: does it mean JAMBOX is a seperate project from this?

Silent reader here. one of the most promising projects. following closely.

Right on time when traffic jam in Bitcoin is happening. Sigh of relief.

Maybe this is indeed the continuation of Bitcoin itself unfolding to areas not deemed possible in the past.

Thank you for your work Mr. Moore.  where can we donate to, have an address?

You are a man of little faith, it is not maybe. Rejoice, brothers and sisters, we're saved! This time for sure.

Very interesting approach! And it's not because of anonymity, which in a way or another some coins provide.
The interesting part is imho that this is based on a (recent) version of Bitcoin.
Maybe some day Bitcoin devs will make themselves an upgrade of Bitcoin to make it anonymous. It gives Bitcoin a good chance to make the first steps into implementing some of the things altcoins proved that's good and needed directly into Bitcoin. It would mean the evolution quite some of us hope for...

But maybe I dream too far...

Can't wait to see this coin launched so I can mock it relentlessly finally see what a real crypto should look like!

Seriously though, looking forward to seeing this project get launched.

So he's a random guy.

He might be a randon guy, but he knows his stuff.
I don't love the way he gets his point across sometimes, but his points are usually worth listening to.

is this your co-developer?
https://bitcointalk.org/useravatars/avatar_13813.jpg

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1001299.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=13813

I trust you'll keep us informed. :)

BTW, to everyone: I myself am uniformed with regard to the technical issues, but TPTB's description of his flash on inspiration - aftter a lot of work - rings true to me, at least in terms of how real inspiration-flashes come about. So to the extent to which the following is credible given my lack of technical expertise, I vouch for him.

Watching

@Mr. Moore
I'm extremely interested in how you will solve the mining centralization issue that is destroying Bitcoin as we speak?

IMO this Bitcoin fork will redefine Bitcoin probably.

The anonymity tech will be well explained for layman. I won't release some technobabble without clear explanations that you can explain to your teenage son.

If we proceed with this project, I think we will hold the explanation secret until very near to launch for obvious reasons that we would want first mover advantage.

I'll be composing a long post shortly to address your question about distribution.

Please note nothing has been fully negotiated yet. I am speaking hypothetically about potential deal that hasn't been signed yet. I am also working programming language design today which is another very deep technical topic, so my time is spread all over.


I will say something about this in my next post.

Desperately awaiting this post of yours! Thank you!

Sometimes I think I wish it was. But I really don't yet know smooth's coding and productivity. Based on our conversations, I assume he is at or above my level of capability in terms of knowledge of programming (but I might be on a different level of creativity that is hard to quantify, I dunno). But I don't have verification. I should study his Aeon commits but I don't have time.

I like smooth. He has been very fair with me and helped me also. He even paid/donated  a few BTC one time to me. It pains me that smooth is the leader for the community that has a few bad apples who have to be so acrimonious. Having said that, I like iCEBREAKER's humor. He is not the problem for me. I feel debt of gratitude or even a real debt to smooth.

I like smooth, but I think he is going about this community and open source thing the wrong way. Crypto-currency is not Linux. I may be wrong. Any way, I am not feuding with smooth. I just wish he wouldn't delete my posts. I don't make many posts in the Monero Speculation thread.  Any way, no he is not my "co-developer".

Smooth may know things about my plans that others don't know. Not because I told him lately, but because I told him a lot last summer, so he may be able to deduce certain things. I trust him to not reveal to anyone for another month or less. Soon all will be public knowledge. And no deal is final yet. So there is a chance I don't proceed.

Has your co-developer ever been involved with development of the Bitcoin protocol?

I am not close to destroying Bitcoin. Millions of users is still many months or more away from now (and no promises of that of course, just my goal). Baby big steps first. I will explain more soon.

I had many times promised I am not going to launch and endorse my own coin here on Bitcointalk.org. So I will need to explain how I am going to keep that promise.


Yes I could see this also potentially making it easier to get this anonymityprivacy tech adopted into Bitcoin, but yeah maybe that is just dreaming. I think people who control Bitcoin now (China) may not want anonymity.

But also realize this technology is more about privacy. Absolutely anonymity will never exist. Ever. In any design. Period. You can use it to attempt to be anonymous to the NSA but just like Monero and Zcash, you will probably fail but YMMV. You might succeed if you are very careful about your meta data. As for privacy, that should achievable for just about everyone who uses decent anonymity technology such as this one we want to create, Monero, or Zcash. The difference is the scaling and other advantages I mentioned. Lol I was talking my angel investor and he said his computer locked up for 15 minutes because he was syncing only 1 days worth of the Monero block chain on a computer with just a regular HD not a SSD.

So maybe TPTB will embrace this technology. I don't know.

But there are other reasons to want to have this coin, if you are concerned that Bitcoin could just take the anonymity technology and leave this new coin with no USP (unique selling point). I will explain more on this soon.

Privacy that can scale to the masses is IMO more important than delusions of anonymity that can give you absolute guarantee of hiding from the NSA. No design for anonymity can ever give you such an absolute guarantee. Even I can explain to you how Monero can be unmasked by the NSA.

Afaik, no. But I think he knows enough to do a reliable fork since he has forked Bitcoin before. But he wants to fork the latest version. I need him because I have not invested the effort to become knowledgeable about the Bitcoin source code. He may be asking me to help though on the Qt wallet modifications. I may also help on the op code changes we need.

Yeah finally man!!++++++

Preparing $1M here, I hope you consider a little bit investors wealth in your distribution design man! ;) ;)

I m a bit astonished about you (TPTB) not knowing bad apples are equally distributed and always need biggest self control, just don t care. (Put on ignore)

I m more eager to see code & ideas.  Only this matters.

Cheers!

didnt we have an argument where I was basically saying what you are saying now?  glad to see you have finally moved on to the big picture approach.

If I didn't care, I wouldn't produce work with passion.

You either want passion or you don't. Greatness only comes with passion. I will guarantee you that.

Look at all the greats, they have tremendous passion for their goal. And they were also ruthless in taking revenge on their critics by proving them wrong. How many examples do you need?

Go listen to Kobe Bryant talk about what motivated him to work so hard. He used the criticism to drive the fire in his belly. That is my personality. I am intense.

Don't expect me to be bland and level. If you want bland and level go hire the Bee-Gees to make your altcoin.

I am writing this after being awake for 18 hours nonstop work. So this is sloppily written. I am rushed.

I don't want to lie. I will give it to you frankly. I did not vet the following statements with HONCHO. So he may have clarifications and I will notify you later if he does.

Okay the good and the bad news.

Everything below is subject to change.

Let me try to lay everything out and get the feedback. I haven't made any final decision yet, so you can possibly influence with your replies, but please pay close attention to every detail below and the logic of my circumstance.

1. I did not plan to launch a CC now. My plan was to finish my work on the programming language I am in the midst of designing, then go launch JAMBOX, then after that launch a CC distributed to the users of JAMBOX who I was hoping would number in the 100,000 minimum or quickly rising to a million+. I have a detailed plan on that, and I have not abandoned it. I want to emphasize that the CC for JAMBOX will not meet my goals on distribution if it is not distributed to the actual users of the network. If it is distributed to investors, then the CC will never widely circulate and nothing will have been achieved. You will never never get a CC to widely circulate if you have the investor hoarding the coin. Period.

2. I stumbled onto a clever way to improve anonymity technology to add some potential benefits which I already enumerated in a post over in my thread:



3. I did not expect to stumble onto that discovery now. So I decided to offer the technology for that for sale to the highest bidder. I was expecting maybe I could sell it to Dash or other existing altcoin for some token amount (maybe a couple thousands), and get some money and then proceed on my work mentioned in #1. The highest bidder thus far is my angel investor (who we will name HONCHO) who also happens to be a prolific developer in crypto. And it turns out that he is ready and willing to launch a new anonymous coin which we will name ACOIN. So I wanted to just sell the technology to him and/or consider it full payment for the angel investment, so I no longer owe him anything. But he said that he is very interested in JAMBOX and he said that he doesn't want to launch a coin with my anonymity technology unless I will also somehow tie my JAMBOX to the coin we would launch now. Also he wants to do an ICO, and that is one way he can offer to pay me the most. But I told him that I don't want to sell vaporware and also I can't be involved in any ICOs because I am a US citizen. Please note that I am not against an ICO if it doesn't involve me legally, and also if the ICO does not represent the future distribution of the JAMBOX coin. I would not create a CC for the millions and then ICO it. I wouldn't allow it to be professionally mined either. I would make sure that that only people that can mine it are the social networking users, so that the distribution is as wide as possible. How will I do that? Don't ask me now, but I have a way. Also I had long said that I don't want to launch my coin here on Bitcointalk, because I feel I need to be able to market it to millions of users in order to achieve my goal so marketing a CC to speculators here on this forum is not going to reach the goal. So what can I do?

4. HONCHO offered to pay me to add my anonymity, ASIC resistent proof-of-work (which I think is better than Monero's), and some other work on the coin he will create. In exchange, he wants me to exclusively contract him to implement the DE (decentralized exchange) on any CC I will create for JAMBOX. So what this means is that there will be new op codes in ACOIN and in any JAMBOX CC not supported initially by any other CCs. So this means that for some period of  months after I would launch any CC for JAMBOX, it is very likely if not certain that only ACOIN could be used to buy coins cheaply from social networking users that want to dump their coins which they mined for free. The social networking users will perceive that they are mining these coins for free because they won't even realize they are mining when they are using the social network. So from their perspective, they will never count the electricity because it will be too minute for them to notice on their electric bill. So it is quite likely many of them will dump these coins for peanuts. But not all of them will (else I will have failed in my responsibility to make many ways for them to spend this JAMBOX CC). So what I am saying to you is that I have an offer to do some contract work on a new ACOIN. And users who buy that ACOIN, then have apparently first dibs on buying cheap JAMBOX CC because in return I will contract HONCHO to implement the DE between both of these CCs. Note of course that over time the free market will make other ways to exchange but for some months it will not be very easy for the free market to go around the exclusive contract because just think about it. Social networking users are not going to go register in some exchange like Poloniex just to sell $10 worth of coins each. Over time the holdings between users and investors will balance out to a market equilibrium and then centralized exchanges will be come viable. Over time others will reverse engineer our op code and make other DE. But that won't happen the day the DE is launch. Competition takes time.

5. So ACOIN would be a way for me to emphasize the anonymity/privacy technology that I probably will not get around to adding to JAMBOX CC at least not in the initial release of JAMBOX CC, and to add other features  to ACOIN that I want to put in any JAMBOX CC such as the improved PoW ash function. So I see ACOIN as a viable coin by itself that will have some features the JAMBOX CC won't have. And the ACOIN will have the aforementioned access to the JAMBOX CC. But the ACOIN won't have the scaling that I want to put in the ACOIN CC, because I need to totally rewrite the source code for that. I can't start with the Bitcoin source code and achieve the radical scaling changes. And I am not ready to totally rewrite a CC source code until I complete my new programming language (or abandon the idea of creating a programming language although it is very important for my plans for replacing the web browser with an app browser).

6. The funding I would hopefully gain from ACOIN would enable me to hire a full time top developer (from outside of CC) to help work on both JAMBOX and JAMBOX CC. Most of the money raised for ACOIN, I presume would go to the development of ACOIN. It is possible that the development of ACOIN will mirror the development I do on the JAMBOX CC, but I can't promise that since it won't be my coin. I will be a paid developer on it, but not the only developer on it. The point is I will not go launching my own coin here on Bitcointalk. ACOIN would not be my coin, although I would be having a strong influence on it. And it would be the way for me and others to acquire JAMBOX CC. So you can bet I will hang on to some of my ACOIN (assuming I was paid some in ACOIN and some in BTC)!

7. Let me emphasize that I would not approve of this plan if it involves any vaporware. Any ICO must be for a coin that is already in testnet and ready to launch with all the features as stated. And any ICO must be open to everyone first-come, first-served with a limit on total coins. Or something like that, but any way I am not in control of any ICO. And I am only stating that which I would refuse to be paid to work on. I will tell you that of course HONCHO will make a statement but not yet. And I will also tell you he was involved in all the recent big ICOs. So apparently he knows what he is doing. Because I don't know a damn thing about that and I don't want to know.

8. The person who is helping to set the W3C standard for IoT is asking me to be the co-author of the standard. He and I had conversations in the past. I don't know if I can manage to fit that into my schedule. And I don't know if HONCHO wants to try to target IoT. There are many other ideas that might come into play. We are only 24 hours into this idea so far.


If the community approves, I can continue. If the community doesn't like, then perhaps I will decline the offer and continue working impoverished as I am at my slow pace.

You tell me?

Spoetnik I know you don't approve. Try to read what I wrote above. Think about my situation. I have negative net worth. I have only a small cash reserve which isn't even my own money. I been giving everything of myself to CC research and development. I have been ill for 4 years but doing better now with sublingual oregano oil daily. So which direction does this community think I should go?

Nobody should live impoverished.
Honcho is the unknown factor. If involved with all other big ico and is well known here this the big factor for community approval. Are they favored by the community. Could we know if it is supernet mastermind? Pick wrong honcho and revealing ID later could be weak spot. j777 not a weak spot to my reading but other well known persons not so favored by all here. Sorry to see your projects meet resistance through no direct faults of your own.

My first message in this special community is for you. I read a lot and is to give you my support in their work. Accept the challenge.

P.S From a small country in the southern end of the world hoping to achieve its objective and work has scope to use and universal community.

Damn the torpedoes!

This is the most focus and direction you've had in recent memory, and the most likely to gain traction rapidly. There may even be some insight gained while working on ACOIN that can be applied to the new PL and social platform. You can't be expected to do it all and you can still go the slow and steady route if this acceleration gives way.

Have you considered taking pictures of your essentials, food and whatnot, and asking for funding to cover them? I'm sure there are individuals interested in supporting real progress in this area.

Lack of feedback seems to indicate the enthusiasm that was displayed before I wrote the prior post, does not exist if following the posited plan in the prior post.

That has been my feeling all along. There is apparently only one way for me to proceed which is impoverished alone, since I refuse for legal reasons and also for the CC's ideal distribution, to be directly involved in any ICO and developers are not willing to join an unpaid project.

So don't complain about the pace of progress. I am still only a human with 14 hours of work a day.

If there no significant change, I ask SOMAcoin to kindly close this thread. We don't need it cluttering the Altcoin Discussion forum.

Well, good luck with your project.This looks to be interesting.

The lack of enthusiasm for a breakthrough in anonymity seems to spell doom for Monero and Zcash.

Seems people were only excited about JAMBOX, not anonymity. So that is good to know. Thanks.

I don't think it's a lack of enthusiasm really. Sometimes it's just hard to keep up with so many posts and new developments. Gauge the feedback over a few days! Some of us don't spend 10 hours a day on the forums  ;)

That being said, I'm looking forward to your contributions and would be an early adopter/investor for sure!

I support TPTBs ideas 100%.

Maybe with finances...or with emotions, I would like to see something revolutionary.

 ::)

Moon  ;D

i'm curios with this jambox, but very optimistic...music??

in early days computers remained in corporate and interested individuals/party only because of its limited use... until people have multiple uses for a computer like multimedia, games, office etc. that made it a household item.

imagine a crypto currency or something of that sort become a household "stuff"

forking bitcoin is nothing new lol, they are called altcoin since 2011, i'm sure no one will care about it a part from those faggot that believe that bitcoin is broken, and add other broken thing on top of it

Bitcoin is not broken. But I hope that you agree that even such a great thing as Bitcoin has room for improvement.

Forking Bitcoin is actually VERY old, Litecoin started that trend quite some time ago. However, nowadays there are forks of forks or forks that bring nothing.
A fork from recent state of Bitcoin and a actually a fork that also brings something new and useful, that's the good news.

Couldn't agree more :)

Don't be so needy; if you think its a good idea just do it already.

You expect people to give you enthusiastic support based on vague allusions as to what you might or might not do? Not going to happen.

Speaking personally, I've seen a few of your posts about, but I don't follow people I follow ideas - I would have ignored this thread based on the title and only got here because somebody linked to to elsewhere. I don't care if a coin is backed by this or that person as long as the people behind it appear able to fulfill any promises they make, I only care what properties it has and I'm sure there are many others like that. If it is a good idea it will get support when you actually give the information about what that idea is.

Also I'd like to add that I don't know anything about Jambox, but tying a coin to a specific service / app / social network or whatever it is is not the way to get millions of users, it is a way to restrict interest in the coin to only people who like that app. If somebody wants to take some of your ideas and create an independent coin, and pay you for it, then what's the problem? You are scared for your reputation, I think, and want to be reassured that people will support you in advance, but do you know anybody in crypto who has done something significant without getting a bad reputation with some people? I can't think of anybody. So just do it.

Feeling let down? Maybe you were just working too hard.

Sounds interesting. Could you explain at least on high level what is this plan? You have mentioned severals times you have this business model of distributing the coins to users for free of charge. What's your thought process and plans with regards to that one? It seems you expect your platform attract lots of users and then they start using the coin to pay for the music content, which is all right, but what exactly will create value for the coin? Will be the coin traded on exchange to create some value for it? The music content providers of JAMBOX who receive payment in your coin will have to dump the income and convert it to FIAT, but who is going to buy it from them?   

Project delayed? Who would have thought.

Litecoin did it, why not just be a dev for litecoin? lol

AnonyMint himself said that all he says and does is vaporware, there will never be a product
It's part of the agenda

I can't believe the tone of this sorry thread!

There are only two things TPTB needs to do

1. Make an announcement thread with the specs etc when he knows what he's going to do
2. Launch the coin

If he doesn't want to launch it on BCT then let him go elsewhere and launch it. What's with all the emotional (humble and semi-begging) garbage?? If it's not being launched here then why do we have to put up with all the emotional tripe? Don't you think other devs have worked themselves to the bone to launch their coins and support the coins amidst all the accusations and attacks (that some people have been happy to join in with)?

The tone of this thread is plain ridiculous!

When the coin is released I will buy in, and I will expect 'PROFIT' just as I expect from other projects. The tone in this thread is psycophantic, pathetic and very annoying! This is not the second coming. It's the birth of another altcoin. Nothing more!

I look forward to a confirmed launch date! Get on with it!

Why don't you just post your BTC address so TPTB can send you BTC directly no need to go through the hassle of creating an altcoin for that.

LoL the only rational assumption with regards to the project could have been that it will be delayed. I like TPTB_need_war god bless him, he is a good man, but he is unable to make progress. He will also tell me that he can't give away  his JAMBOX business model here, in the public ... which he gave away several times already on this forum.

What was his jump to this anonymous thing anyway? That has been his USP and he has been arguing here for months that the anonymous feature is a big NO-NO, and then he suddenly switch to the anonymous topic. I hope he will sort out his focus and priorities.

I am HONCHO, the person whom was referred to in the prior message (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1474403.msg14870881#msg14870881) written by AnonyMint. I am not AnonyMint.

No there is no let down. AnonyMint did not communicate clearly the unique selling point of the coin I am going to create with AnonyMint's technology. I understand he wrote that he had been awake for 18 hours. He contacted me on chat yesterday after writing the aforementioned message; and I urged him to sleep and let me handle this.

I have urged AnonyMint to stop communicating on this forum and let me handle the marketing to the speculation markets. I want AnonyMint to focus on his core competencies, which include technology, programming, speaking to small focused groups with his incisive insights, and marketing to the masses. He has successfully done the bolded several times in his career and my money is betting he can do it again. It is my strong sense that AnonyMint is not in his best element when confronted with communication to large groups of speculators.

I am an angel investor of AnonyMint. I want to inform you that AnonyMint has communicated to me today that he is permanently banned from this forum and thus will not be speaking to you anymore on this forum. Also I am not wanting to facilitate a way for him to communicate to speculators at this time, because I need for him to focus on work and not be distracted. At the appropriate future juncture, I will facilitate a forum where you can ask him questions directly.

AnonyMint failed to communicate to you the main reason I want to create a coin with AnonyMint's newly discovered technology. What excited me so much is that this discovery makes decentralized exchange much more realistic and not prone to jamming. I will be explaining more about this to you.

For the moment, I want to summarize that the coin I want to create will be a reserve currency for those who want to trade to various crypto-currencies. It will have superior anonymity and decentralized exchange, thus enabling speculators to use it as their holding asset in between speculations. It will hopefully eliminate centralized exchanges. My planned coin serving double-duty as the exclusive pathway to obtaining the future JAMBOX crypto-currency cheaply at its future launch is the icing on the cake.

I am also protecting my investment in AnonyMint, in planning to raise more funds for his JAMBOX project so he can accelerate development. Note I will not be receiving any JAMBOX coins in any form of premine. I will obtain them via the decentralized exchange. I will however receive shares in the JAMBOX corporation.

You're posting like you don't know (or understand) the nature of the industry that you're a part of. I'll leave it at that!

Mods!

Maybe this thread should be moved to the announcement section?

AnonyMint is afraid of being associated with an IPO or any form of premine, because he is a citizen of the United States of America. I am not afraid to launch an ICO.

I wanted AnonyMint's ability to communicate with incision on this forum. He has a huge following. But I don't want him conflating his fear of ICOs into his communication. Also there seems to be some power struggle between AnonyMint and the forum owners, so I think it is best if I urge him to stop wasting his time bickering on this forum.

My impression is that what you are reading in his last few messages is lamenting that he can't compete in the ICO market and he understands that is the only way to compete and raise funds in the AltCoin space. So he was feeling handcuffed. I have told him to stop, and let me handle this. The limitation is removed. I will pay him as a contractor, so he has no legal culpability. He will not promote this coin directly, so to make sure he has no legal culpability. I will facilitate him to answer questions later; first let's allow some time for him to get some work done and catch up on sleep.

He will get his funding so he can go complete his project at full speed.

Let's move forward.

Any questions or feedback to me on my plans?

I may be able to answer some questions about JAMBOX, but I will have to defer more detailed questions on that to AnonyMint.

Sad... it looks like The Powers That Be have finally silencied AnonyMint....

Maybe this thread should be (soon) closed with a redirect to a new thread, which will contain the pre-announcement.
And since the tone of the discussions was not great, maybe the new topic could even be self-moderated.

Why? There's no announcement (as of yet) -- this is just a discussion about a potential bitcoin fork in the making.

Hence altcoin discussions seems most appropriate to me.

I have not conspired with anyone to silence AnonyMint.

I funded AnonyMint last year when he entirely depleted his savings for buying basic necessities such as food, was mired in the throes of illness and it wasn't clear if he could ever get his health restored and be productive. I took a risk, because I believe he may the one who can make crypto-currency ubiquitous.

I am protecting not only my meager investment with him, but more importantly I am facilitating whom I think is potentially an important resource for the future of crypto-currency.

Let's move forward. Any questions for me? And feedback on my plans as stated?

Hmm so it's delayed or even entirely abandoned, the project?
I was getting my funds ready to throw at you Shelᖚy ;) ;)

Hello,
Can you develop a Proof of Stake/ Hybrid for a new altcoin?

You say you want the coin to be used as a 'holding coin' by people using your decentralized exchange, will they do this because all the pairs are against acoin so they have to, because it will not be as private if they don't, or for other reasons?

Also you mentioned a problem with decentralized exchanges that you think you've solved - jamming or something - could you please explain this problem even if you can't explain the solution because I think Bitsquare has a good plan for their decentralized exchange and I would like to compare but I'm not sure what this issue you are referring to is exactly.

I'm excited by the whole package, including anon & decentralised social network for creatives

AnonyMint's JAMBOX project and crypto-currency for JAMBOX is not abandoned. He is working now. I saw him make some posts today to the Rust programming language forum. Nothing has slowed down.

I am proposing to ICO a new coin which will have the capabilities I mentioned. This coin will be the only route available to you for obtain AnonyMint's forthcoming JAMBOX crypto-currency cheaply at launch. If you want to invest in his work, you will have to do so through the coin I am launching. AnonyMint already explained why it must be structured this way.

The money raised from the ICO I will do, will nearly entirely go to funding the JAMBOX project so we can accelerate it. It is still my hope that JAMBOX will be launched within 2016 if we can raise even just 200 BTC of funding— although I'm aiming for 1000 BTC. AnonyMint will doing some work on the coin I will launch via ICO. I explained already the significance of the coin I will launch via ICO. I would like feedback on that plan.

I am accelerating everything now because AnonyMint's health has stabilized and he has made major accomplishments on the every aspect of the research and development.


Excellent question.

AnonyMint had an error in his presentation. He indicated that social networking users would be selling $10 of coins on the decentralized exchange I will create with exclusive access via the coin I am launching via ICO. I expect the musicians and app developers to accumulate the JAMBOX tokens until they are significant enough in value to exchange on the DE for other coins which can be exchanged to BTC/fiat. So I expect to be acquiring tokens in $50 and $100 morsels, not $10.

I expect also that many musicians and app developers will choose to redistibute the token as incentives for fans and in game currency functions. So not all the tokens will get dumped on to the DE. Thus the demand for the tokens will be higher than the supply until the price rises significantly.

Also as I understand the plan, JAMBOX will also be accepting Paypal, so the JAMBOX token is mostly for those 6 billion who don't have a credit card but also love music and apps. Well let's say 1 billion since not all of them have a smartphone yet but the penetration of smartphones in the developing world is double-digit annual exponential compounding.

If the system will use "masternodes", will there be an incentive for people to run one?

Is there going to be mining, or will all coins be distributed via the ICO?

@HONCHO, are you affiliated with SuperNET and InstantDEX?

@Honcho: are you the latest account of /AnonyMint/TPTB_need_war/...?

No. I already stated this in my first message.


I have not yet decided whether and when to confirm or deny my prior affiliation, and whether I will deploy my pre-existing reputation to drive investment in the proposed ICO.

Those who know me, know I comment less on Bitcointalk these days. And I also want you to note that AnonyMint is banned.

There needs to be someone to get out in front publicly on the marketing. A visible public face is always best. Those who know me, will know I am anonymous even if I reveal my prior affiliations.

I wanted AnonyMint to be that public face and I also think he is a motivational public speaker. But he is not comfortable being a promoter of an ICO. I am confident he will be a public persona promoting JAMBOX. There is also a plan to raise money for JAMBOX in a crowdfund and I presume he will be publicly visible at that time. And many details will be presented at the crowdfund. Note the crowdfund is as I understand it to be in exchange for Tshirts and other perks not including JAMBOX tokens. I am not certain the proposed crowdfund can raise enough funds to accelerate JAMBOX properly. Thus I have taken the opportunity to leverage AnonyMint's research discovery to propose creating a new coin and distributing it via ICO.


The JAMBOX crypto-currency will be a revolutionary redesign of Satoshi's proof-of-work, so yes it will have mining and be distributed via mining. But it will be unprofitable mining and the senders of transactions will supply the proof-of-work shares. I will defer to AnonyMint for further details on that. AnonyMint has indicated that he has a technology to prevent professional mining during the launch phase and that only verified social networking users will be able to mine and they will be limited in how much they can mine per day. He expressed to me that he is confident he can prevent anyone from amassing investment quantities of coins via mining and that this can be enforced in a decentralized protocol.

For the crypto-currency I propose to launch via ICO, I want it to be proof-of-share so there will be no debasement of the currency. This currency is intended to be a reserve currency for trading thus should not be debased and if the coin supply shrinks due to lost coins that is not a problem. Also it will be more compatible with the masternode concept to employ DPOS where the delegates are the masternodes. I am thinking the masternodes should receive the transaction fees as their sole compensation. I propose the transaction fees will be set as a percentage in the protocol. We need a very efficient, low-cost, and fast network for our reserve currency trading. Masternodes will of course have to lock a deposit which is forfeited if they do any malfeasance. I am aware of the general argument against proof-of-stake that masternodes can collude or be bought up by the evil adversaries, and that one could profit by attacking the coin with masternode control and shorting the coin. However, we also see that Bitcoin has arguably transmogrified to de facto centralized control to some degree. It seems one chooses their poison, at least until AnonyMint leads to the way to an overhaul of Satohi's design and shows us a better way.

will your ICO be legal in the United States of America and the Philippines?

Probably not and that's why anonymint has created honcho.

Are any ICOs illegal in the United States of America?

Isn't that a question for the appropriate authorities or your attorney.


I noticed your Waves signature. I advised some ICOs.

This..

Yes



No, it's a question for your legal team, if you guys have one

IANAL

In the United States I would take this guidance from FinCEN under consideration. https://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html (https://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html)

It appears to me that an ICO would require the registration of the issuer with FinCEN as an MSB within the required time period in order for the ICO to be legal in the United States.

Edit 1: Here is the FinCEN Enforcement action against Ripple over this issue https://www.fincen.gov/news_room/nr/html/20150505.html (https://www.fincen.gov/news_room/nr/html/20150505.html)

Edit 2: The above is the reason I stay well away from ICO coins including Ethereum.

I found an expert. Thanks. Please kindly list for me which ones are illegal?


In all due respect sir, this is global crypto-currency. I am not indemnifying you in every jurisdiction on earth. You can consult the authorities in your jurisdiction and your own attorney to obtain the advice that is relevant to you. I can consult the authorities and my attorney to obtain advice that is relevant to me.

There are 194 countries on earth.


Thank you sir for you non-attorney opinion.

Sir, it is irrelevant what country I'm residing in as I'm not participating in your ICO.

Here's a good start:

Okay, and thanks for the explanation. He just sounded like I felt back in my writing days when I busted a gut writing something and then wondered why the fan mail didn't pour in after it was published. That's what I meant when I asked "Feeling let down?"

I hope he's well.

The opposite. I advised AnonyMint that JAMBOX needed to be tied to the coin I would ICO so as to maximize speculator interest; and he said he just wanted to see his new anonymity plus DE discovery in a new coin. He didn't want to tie any futures contracts to JAMBOX. So I think his heart was not in what he was writing and was trying to convince himself by writing frankly in public and then gauging feedback. When he didn't get much feedback, he rightfully concluded that one can't market an ICO without a very convincing message and plan. AnonyMint's distaste for funding vaporware with ICOs was clearly evident between the lines of what he wrote. My insight is he was killing the idea because he is driven in by the passion for the ideas he believes in.

When I chatted with him earlier today his only point was, "Why do they criticize me for being slow, when they also criticize premines and ICOs.". He is correct. One man alone can't accomplish the ambitious goals AnonyMint is trying to achieve.

So there needs to be more funding. A top quality software engineer costs $100,000+. The level of software engineer who could keep up with AnonyMint is someone similar to smooth, or the keean guy he is conversing with at the Rust forum. Both of these two earn in excess of $250,000 annual salary. AnonyMint should quit crypto and go work in industry. He will be age 51 soon, is bankrupt, and probably be best advised to go earn what he is worth instead of risking so much for a dream. But that is how passionate people behave. I know it when I see it.

LoL could be the case.

TPTB_need_war has been telling everyone for long months there won't be any ICO. He said the business model to distribute the coin to the users of JAMBOX without an ICO. You are talking about an ICO. Which one is the case?

Are you jl777 James the chief wanker-scammer of supernet who roll out one money party after another, the latest is the fucking WAVES scam? If yes, don't bother to reply my question.

Good luck with the project, I am going to follow it as well.

Lol. Jl777 has absolutely nothing directly to do with Waves, nada, de niente. At least get your info right, little man :D Your post seems as if jl777 is the creator of Waves :D

1. Because users won't have to risk their funds in a centralized exchange.

2. Users can trade directly between acoin and any* other coin and more anonymously with no need to signup an account or provide an identification documents.

3. The trading will be more efficient and robust due to AnonyMint's technological discovery. See the discussion of Bitsquare for more info.

4. Some pairs may be exclusive, e.g. JAMBOX's crypto-currency will be exclusive for a period of time until others are able to copy the op code. Most everything will be open source, but this op code will be closed source until someone reverse engineers it. Generally it is not possible to maintain exclusivity of pairs for decentralized protocol block chains. So exclusivity is ephemeral.

* Some caveats need to be discussed.


Page 3 (http://bitsquare.io/bitsquare.pdf#page=3) of the Bitsquare whitepaper says everything we need to know in the following excerpt:

http://i63.tinypic.com/352f3gy.png

Note they are relying on multi-sig and arbitration. So what stops the two trusted signers from stealing the funds. That is not DE. DE is where two parties can do a trade and there is no way third parties could steal the funds. You can find the detailed technical analysis of why it is flawed in the discussion that TPTB_need_war had with David Zimbeck in the Bitbay thread of this Altcoin Discussion subforum.

Also note how Bitsquare is relying on Tor which is known to be a honeypot and compromised, as well often being slow and timing out. And thanks to AnonyMint, I am proposing to offer much more robust and performant anonymity.

* There is no way to do DE directly between two coins that don't have support for some special op code. And even the op code Bitcoin offers which enables TierNolan's DE protocol, doesn't address the fact that it can jammed as AnonyMint (TPTB_need_war) explained. TPTB_need_war offered a pseudo-solution (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1364951.0) which is to have users of the TierNolan protocol—cut and choose or the first-class variant when both coins support the Bitcoin op code—choose how old the coins need to be that they are willing to trade with. This is intended to rate limit an jam attack, but it is still not really a robust solution. And besides, the TierNolan protocol is extremely slow and thus will be error prone. I don't expect it to be viable/popular in practice at any scale.

So AnonyMint discovered a way to fix that!

AnonyMint is prolific. If you aren't paying attention, that is not his fault.

Poor TPTB, getting silenced like that in this forum and having someone else do all the talking for him. Something just doesnt feel right,
how can we be sure HONCHO didn't just kill TPTB and took over his life and work ?

TPTB, if you read this please give us a sign of life... pref in the form of a lenghty reply so we know its you  ::)

Look at the post above yours :)

yeah, i did notice HONCHO has rather lengthy replies as well  :-\

So, yeah, please give us a sign anonymint, like you always did when banned:)

Does Dash have anything against me sir? I don't believe we've ever had conflict in the past and been able to co-exist. Dash makes instamine ICOs and I make super ICOs. Dash makes masternodes and I make super nets. What is the problem from your perspective?

Are you against me creating masternodes that do anonymity because this is Dash's feature?

i'm not sure that counts as a sign of life.. what do you guys think ?

You don't know what jl777 James does directly with what so don't talk nonsense.

Anyway, it seems HONCHO is a TPTB_need_war sockpuppet account. God bless TPTB_need_war, he always navigates himself into these messy situations. Since he has been telling everyone for long months that he is not going to do an ICO, he needed to create a sockpuppet to roll an ICO out.

Correct.


Incorrect.

I suggest choosing Monero instead of Bitcoin to begin with.

Choosing inferior technology hardly makes any sense.

This is a good question. Why did you choose a bitcoin fork?

Note, Im not saying Monero is the best.

Almost fell out of my chair reading that.

Added to the list
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1475911.msg14878646#msg14878646

I get the impression sir that you vehemently dislike AnonyMint and are waging a vendetta.

Why are you slandering me in the process? Did I slander you. If you are angry at AnonyMint, please do not splatter your anger all over the place on other innocent people.

Think before you post. A friendly reminder from someone who has been on this earth for 6 decades.

Actually not at all, I'm an admirer of his posts. That's why I made the list.
It's a point of reference to easily find all the material to read. There's plenty.
If you or AnonyMint is not in favor of this list, I'll take it down right away.

I am just disapointed that its going to be an IPO... thought it would be different this time.....

After all the hate talk of IPO's that TPTHwar has released I guess he will finally become as culpable as the rest.

 Not that i see much wrong in him needing investment money, but he has been holding us all accountable to a higher standard that he now is willing to overlook.

Remind me to come take a look 1 year after its released.

and i thought that zcash http://zerocoin.org will be the real anonBTC.

but no there is an other project?

I would not be concerned about TPTB_need_war outsourcing his ICO/IPO to avoid legal and / or moral liability. I would be concerned about FinCEN launching a wave of enforcement and its impact on the alt-coin market given that IPO/ICO is a favorite way of raising investment money in the alt-coin market, Here is an article on the subject by Arnold & Porter LLP  http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=4dea5c6a-110a-4949-a5dd-a82c034210b1 (http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=4dea5c6a-110a-4949-a5dd-a82c034210b1)

The article refers to the FinCEN guidance I quoted above in this thread and some further guidance from FinCEN. I find the section particularly relevant to alt-coin speculators and investors. This is the elephant in the room that very few people in the alt-coin market are willing to talk about for obvious reasons.

Copy and paste from encrypted chat is a possibility you could consider.

An escrowed bet of 10 BTC will be sufficient for a message posting from a Hero account confirming my affiliation.

These are very valid points.

Just like the post you have replied is valid as well. It is hard to understand that TPTB_need_war has been the most vocal cyber-warrior against ICOs on this forum, and then suddenly he realize, whoops, forget about it ... now really I need to make an ICO too. Welcome to the messy Operation of TPTB_need_war.

It's gonna be an ICO?????   
 
 :D x 7^777bbq

You folks have ruled out the possibility of HONCHO being a conman. I'm not saying this is the case, but...

this could even be a campaign against AnonyMint, who has consistently been sharing a strong anti-ICO sentiment indeed.

more than that, he has repeatedly pointed out the legal issues involved.

Now you act like CfB from the IOTA scam. If you ask that man what time is it now or in fact ask any questions such as does a bear shit in the woods or anything really which has a question mark, CfB will offer you a 50 BTC bet to deal with the question ... since he knows nobody gives a monkey about the betting offer of a scammer.

Isn't the interest of your investors to know who the fuck you are? Why you need to complicate the simple question of who you are with a fucking 10 BTC bet? The TPTB_need_war ICO starts as he finished here: fishy and messy.

... maybe she is just afraid the elephant in the room will step on her.

I think it's clear what happened: Shelby Moore sold his account due to his financial problems and failing health. 
 
He likely got several thousand dollars for it.  Good for him, and I wish the entrepreneurs (I'm being generous) who bought it the best of luck.

Who are you?

prettybuds confirmed he is not investing. Qwizzie a known to be the top Dash promoter, so it is safe to assume he is not investing. I owe them nothing. If you accuse me violating my choice of my privacy, then I can up the ante as I did.

Your mother apparently didn't wash your mouth with soap often enough. The vulgarity and profanity. How old are you?

I am 18 and masturbating 4 times a day. I also fucked yesterday my neighbour, she is 82 but still pretty. I also had sex with her husband (86 and pretty too). Now, as we answered the very important question of my age and established all relevant facts about my personal life, who the fuck are you?

At least we knew for example the IOTA scammers are David and Sergey so the law enforcements know it as well. Similarly it is important to know who are you?

In Waves Topic  :

Sorry to disappoint you but I am proactively disinterested in your sexuality and don't find it to be relevant in the least.

By what specific statute or legal authority do you claim the power to compel me to comply with your information demand?


And the imposter police.

TPTB_need_war is an attention whore that has NEVER released a single crypto-currency algorithm for public review. Prove me wrong. Why don't we talk about Cryptonote ZeroDays because they are not vaporware. 8)

P.S. This is nothing more than a Dash hate topic (starts on the 5th post by TPTB_need_war). It was a clever try but you guys need new sock puppet accounts at this point since everybody knows all of you (Monero Trolls).

Thank you, hmachado, I didn't find it. Jl777, to Waves, is indeed only an advisor and investor just like many others. He is not <quote>roll[ing] out one money party after another, the latest [being] the WAVES scam</quote> as the potty mouth teenager claimed. :D

Sorry, this one is actually better:

http://www.funniestmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Funniest_Memes_fuck-the-police_295.png

Could you clarify for myself and the readers how the proposed "acoin" could be an ICO for AnonyMint's JAMBOX, given that AnonyMint confirmed that all of JAMBOX's crypto-currency will be distributed by unprofitable proof-of-work to the social networking users of JAMBOX?

Did you even read AnonyMint's explanation.

Indeed ... next time do your research before talk to me and now fuck off you WAVES shill to cheerlead your WAVES nonsense for the idiots who buy into the NXT/Waves scam.

The power? How about the power came from His Majesty Tupou VI the King of Tonga?

What the fuck are you talking about man? Simple question: following the long months of crusade against ICOs, suddenly who is trying to collect money behalf of TPTB_need_war ... for an ICO?

When this bullshit is over (in like 10 years), I'll still be here, young enough to tip you with some FAIL. You just gave me another idea about how it can be used.

Thank you!

Bravo!

I've always wondered this.  And how can I invest in this project?  Thanks.

Yes, I did. And that's why I was asking what is the business model for JAMBOX. And then he disappeared and you appeared to collect money. Now I understand. It seems the JAMBOX business model hasn't changed, but there will be a new, different coin than JAMBOX via an ICO. Is that's what happening?

Who is trying to collect with an ICO? AnonyMint? Myself?

Any proof?

Where is the ICO listed for sale?

It seems every accusation you have made in this thread has been shown to be in error.

I am a very old man even older than AnonyMint, and yet it seems you are suffering the frustrated, ranting old man syndrome. May I suggest you take a walk outside.


AnonyMint didn't disappear. He was banned. Again you seem to get all the facts wrong and fling accusations before resolving your misconceptions.

There is discussion, no decision.

AnonyMint didn't even start this discussion. He was dragged into it by someone else plastering the forum with this thread.

So you will have no ICO?  How will you collect money from people?

What do you suggest?

OK. I am sorry to say, but I have to conclude that HONCHO is the sockpuppet of TPTB_need_war. Nobody would act like this - except TPTB_need_war. I am really sorry, because I always liked TPTB_need_war, he is a good man. It is unfortunate that he ended up like this. He must be in desperate need for money. It's sad really.

Oh,  you still have no idea...  I think an ICO is the only way to go.  But you already said there wouldn't be one.

Where did I write there wouldn't be one?

Isn't there a verb tense difference between "there isn't one" and "there wouldn't be one".

Thanks for your suggestion.

Kind of agree but don't want too.  :'(

From the man who got all his facts wrong.

The fake melodrama is indicative of a manipulative personality.

Actually TPTB already gave his idea which was to do an actual startup software company for JAMBOX with transparent founder and key developer identities on linkedin, etc., use legal crowdfunding and legal, qualified investors (there are some of those even here in crypto land you know?)

Good idea, bad idea, I don't know, but it was definitely an idea.

I don't see anything wrong with contract work even for an ICO though, but it's easy for that to be a bit of a sham. A contract worker should be paid to do specific work as a truly independent contractor. As long as that is reality of the relationship and not a wink-wink relationship, I see nothing wrong with it. The guy needs money, I wouldn't shit on his ability to work for a living.

That said, I agree with something HONCHO posted earlier which is that TPTB should really leave crypto (as a profession) and get a job doing the kind of software work he can be very well paid for and doesn't violate any laws (and then, if he wants, like many of us, pursue crypto as a hobby). It's his call though, following his passion even though it is hard to make money in crypto without some sort of scamming or association with scamming is understandable.

I actually and truly believe that HONCHO is Satoshi Nakamoto.  This is not a joke.

~CfA~

What about proposing the project to the new DAO in Ethereum that everyone's crazy about.  That would be a nice testbed for both Jambox and the DAO.

Who we were at the beginning will not confirm nor deny that speculation. The rabbit hole suspends in animation for the aforementioned 10 BTC escrowed bet.

Certain parties want to destroy my work. They will not succeed.

Seems interesting but as I understand it most current TheDAO participants are looking for it to fund Ethereum-based projects, and I doubt TPTB wants to build his product on Ethereum (up to him though).

There is nothing about TheDAO that requires it to fund Ethereum projects though, it could fund anything, in theory.

It can fund you in ETH, but it doesn't mean it has to be an Ethereum project.  At least that's how I understood it, which is actually the beauty of it.  If contractors are requored to only to create projects in Ethereum then that would limit the potential of the DAO.

Actually thinking about the chaos I expect from enabling all the investors to manage DAO projects, this might be a perfect way to disorganize an "acoin" that is developed as the exclusive means to trade at market prices for the JAMBOX tokens being dumped by the social networking users who do not comprehend its future value.

So this might insure that JAMBOX tokens remain in the hands of the social networking users fostering the development of currency instead of dumping it to investors to play speculation hot potato.

Thanks for the clever Trojan Horse suggestion. You must play 3D chess?

Yes that was the meaning of my second paragraph. But in practice I don't think that will happen short term. I could be wrong though.

I'll need to do some more reading on DAO funded projects. My understanding is there is a governance requirement whereby the investors must vote on every expenditure. Am I incorrect?

So does this mean if funds were raised and it was voted not to release all the funding to AnonyMint, then the minority of investors who are overruled by the majority end up with some turf battle gridlock similar to the block size debate.

HONCHO is online and talking 2am to 7am in the Philippines..maybe he is not anonymint, unless insomnia kicked in.

No, they are not required to vote, but spending must pass by a quorum (I think 40%). The quorum requirement probably won't be hard since there is high concentration of ownership.


No, there is a minority-protection rule (called splitting) where you can withdraw your investment if you don't like what the majority is doing.

Of course these are just the rules for this particular DAO. Other rules are possible.

That means next to nothing: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=504237;sa=statPanel

Why speculate though? If people are going to use sock puppets, and they are, then it doesn't really matter who happens to be driving any particular puppet at any given time. People can switch puppets and puppets can always be passed around (which might be one explanation for the above linked chart, who knows).

You're unavoidably dealing with a forum nick and nothing any more tied to a "real identity" than that, don't assume otherwise.

What lack of independence between JAMBOX's tokens and ICO tokens? Did you fail to understand that AnonyMint proposed the ICO tokens would have to be traded on the DEX for the JAMBOX tokens?

I never made any such claims.

But since you are HONCO and not TPTB, I'll point you TPTB's posts about "economic reality". Trading tokens from one form to another may or may not change the economic reality. The specific mechanism being used isn't necessarily important, but it also could be. As I said I made no specific claims.

How can the prior knowledge that the investors will be dependent on the independent decisions of social networking users desire to sell their coins, be construed as any form of security-of-investment secured by expectations of AnonyMint's future actions?

Where is the security?

Could you maybe fathom the possibility that AnonyMint is so clever he found a paradigm to legally bypass the very regulations he had been researching.

Work out the details of your own business plan, I'm too busy to dig into specifics, nor are my opinions even relevant. What matters is what you (and other participants), investors, customers, prosecutors, judges, and/or juries believe. At the moment I have none of these roles with respect to your venture.


I never claimed otherwise, though frankly I doubt this is possible. Most illegal investment schemes (now) involve some form of complex obfuscation and the law is designed to, and does, ignore form (i.e. paradigm) in favor of a view toward what is actually being accomplished. However, the abstract law and what is actually prosecuted are two different things, and different people may care more about one or the other. Participants have to make their own judgements.

I think the forum will miss the debates between AnonyMint and yourself. Somehow I think the forum will no longer be as informational as it was when he was around.

I am reasonably sure based on what he wrote to me today he is not coming back, not through a sock puppet or even spiritually.

I don't think you understood. AnonyMint didn't want to raise any funds via ICO and still doesn't. It was your Monero community members who said he never did anything in crypto, that motivated him to want to accelerate his work by obtaining enough funding to hire another programmer.

AnonyMint has continued to work day and night on crypto for 4 years for less than $2000 per month at the bare minimum expenses that one can survive and still be productive.

There is saying about relationships. You never know how good it was until it is gone.

(i adjusted the time 2am to 7am)....

i'm speculating that there maybe more than 1 person involved other than anonymint..

Well look at the posting times on the TPTB account (link above). They are really all over the 24 hour period. That could be multiple people or it could be someone who doesn't sleep on a consistent schedule.

Neither have you.

I've been told by AnonyMint that you published papers with faulty, flawed, or insufficiently described algorithms.

So you consider that using his name to promote Waves "advising and investing", doesnt make him a part of it?
Its not like they didnt try to take credits from everyone, but others dismissed it.

Trojan horse suggestion?  No, I am merely interested in the possibilities of the DAO and the future projects that might be created thru it.  If you don't think it's a good idea for Jambox then that's that.  

Hi, Craig and JVP.

Is Anonymint from the Phillipines?

TPTB said he was from New Orleans and now living in the Phillipines.

Then should we dredge up AnonyMint's explanation of how Monero is potentially also an illegal unregistered investment security.

Perhaps we ought to just admit crypto is nefarious=Libertarian and cease wearing our underwear on our heads. Ahem. Cough. Cough.

You just think the technology is cool and want to do your fellow man a service. Paint me skeptical.

And that would be relevant to this thread how exactly?


You'll get no argument from me about crypto being nefarious.


In my particular case sure, it's more about thinking it is interesting technology (mostly PoW cryptocurrencies -- I don't consider most of the rest very interesting) and less about doing fellow man a service, though I don't mind do that either. I also enjoy the competitive multiplayer game aspect of crypto (mining, trading, etc.)

What I do in particular isn't relevant to anyone else though.

See quoted underlined, bolded.


So it is the chess in you. From my perspective, I say AnonyMint is more ideologically driven. The game you are playing is swallowed by the macro game AnonyMint is interested in.

The means justifies the ends. China and Blockstream are... (don't want to be banned by the man I entrusted)

Again, I don't see the relevance of Monero. If there is a relevant principle involved I'd guess it can be considered in the context of this project without reference to another.

Likewise, my personal interests have nothing to do with this project as far as I can tell.

Please do, since he is dead wrong on this. By the way a better example would be Ethereum.

The definition of obfuscation is you will not see.

Stop playing dumb please. You know what I meant. Decentralized proof-of-work distribution may be another obfuscation of the economic reality of an investment security.

That Monero is forcing hard forks on a periodic schedule clearly shows the developers are in control of its future which investors expectations are based on. I read in Monero Speculation that Monero investors are investing based on the expection of Shen-noether implementing Ring Confidential Signatures.

The obfuscation is actually quite weak.

"Holier than thou", as AnonyMint would write.

I'm done. You take the last word. Good luck.


Done. You wrote earlier "IANAL". Please remember you are not a lawyer.

Let us start with the basics: Who is the issuer of the alleged security?

Okay it might. How does that help your argument here?


I'm pretty sure you're engaging in appeal to hypocrisy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque). My relationship with Monero and the legal analysis of Monero is not relevant to your claim here of there being a "legal bypass", especially if you claim that Monero is also not legal. Surely you must see the futility of that line of argument. If not then I guess TPTB has associated with someone who can't think very clearly.

The Howey test doesn't concern itself with the issuer, rather only the economic reality of whom is securing the investor's expectations.

Your FinCEN guidance is entirely out-of-band of investment security law.

I don't want to argue with you. I wasted too much time here already.

I said I would give you the last word, yet you ask me a question.

Because Monero more clearly fits that Howey test than the proposal AnonyMint made. So the greater likelihood is that AnonyMint's proposal is legal than is Monero.


I shouldn't point out that I just caught you in a failure of logic, because then you might conclude I must be TPTB.

Smooth stay tuned. The fireworks are only just beginning. You won't want to miss it.

I will sign off.

So you propose a security without an issuer?


No argument there; however compliance with investment security law does not mean there exists or there does not exist an illegal activity in another area of law.

1. Even if this were true, it wouldn't help your argument. Monero could be illegal and your propose scheme could also be illegal. Your statement proves nothing.

2. It isn't true. TPTB's proposed scheme, viewed from the perspective of "economic reality" in its totality, incorporates an ICO that will be used to raise money to support a collection of related efforts by related parties, including the JAMBOX effort. it was also stated that the ICO coin coin will be a vehicle which can be used to acquire JAMBOX tokens from people who want to sell them (and suggested this might be the only such vehicle). This ties the components together in a scheme that structurally has no viable analogy with Monero. So the two are structurally different and incomparable. On this basis it is entirely possible that either, both, or neither could be legal.

I'm reasonably confident you won't, and can't, find a "legal bypass" that allows investor funds to flow into developing something that has the reasonable expectation of somehow benefiting the investors (and if it doesn't, the investors either won't buy it or are being scammed). I'm also reasonably confident that not everything that is illegal will be prosecuted, so everyone will have to make their own judgements on this. TPTB seemed interested in these issues of legality, more so than me in some ways.

In the case of Monero, hypothetically, the "issuer" would be whoever is orchestrating the scheme to funnel investor money for their benefit with some investor expectation of a future return.

Whether someone is "orchestrating" Monero as a scheme to do anything depends who you ask. Like if you ask ceti or Spoetnik, its all being run behind the scenes by Risto or me (or I am Risto).

It's obviously nonsense, but if someone were to make the case, that's the argument they would make.

In the case of this thread, it is clear that there is a scheme with two coins, one with an ICO (i.e. clearly funneling investor money with some investor expectation of a future return), and various relationships between a number of involved parties, some anonymous. The scheme is laid out, at least in general terms, on this very thread for all to see (or maybe the posts I read are on another thread).

Always enjoy seeing non-lawyers twist their logic to obscure their criminality from themselves. There is proverb, it is nearly impossible to teach a man whose livelihood depends on not learning.

But it is better to not refute them, so they may continue to reap what they sow.

Well I think it is time to stop playing word games don't you. Better to play with real things such as knives, guns, functioning software, and other less ambiguous means of defining conquest.

Right back at you brother.

Yes, but even the the above example "the scheme" rather than Monero itself would be the security. There is a subtle difference here. A good example is Ethereum. Many would argue that Ethereum is a security because of its initial ICO, but in reality was the security the promise to deliver the Ethereum at a future date or the Ethereum itself? Another example would be a promise to deliver gold at a future date, The promise to deliver gold at a future date may very well be a security, but that does not make the gold itself a security.

I think I agree with that. Not sure the relevance to this thread, but then I saw no relevance to Monero having been brought up at all, except to try to attack us with the appeal to hypocrisy fallacy.

"Issuer," "security," etc. are all legal terms defined by statute and which have been interpreted by courts.  The Howey test is one case about one particular type of investment contract (one involving real property) and whether it constituted a "security" under the Securities Act (U.S. Jurisdiction).  The court looked to investor expectations to help determine that the contracts in question were securities.  Whether the securities needed an "issuer" was never in discussion - obviously they do, they don't come from nowhere and they are creatures of contract, which require people or other entity with a legal existence (like a corporation, partnership, llc, etc).  

Question: what jurisdiction is being discussed/contemplated? Why not start with some definitions from the relevant statutes from the relevant jurisdictions instead of making stuff up? How will long-arm statutes be avoided?    
OP has said nothing in 10+ pages, Caveat emptor.

The hypocrisy of claiming Monero is not a coordinated entity from one side of your mouth, then defending your tribe "us" out of the other side of your mouth.

You may even believe that the two sides of your mouth are two people, so that they are not inconsistent.

You succeeded in hoodwinking AnonyMint and destroying his reputation by convincing him that he would be on the successful side by speaking out against ICOs, premines, etc.. So that the former reputation that AnonyMint had became unusable when it was time to use it.

You've laid so much waste in your wake. And potentially destroyed the one person who could have actually fixed crypto for all of us.

I hope you are proud of your result.

But I wouldn't be too smug. AnonyMint is one clever mofo. I am sure he will no longer use words.

In fact, I know his next plan. And he will turn the definition of mining inside-out and upside-down. And you will bow at his feet. Keep your television tuned. The fireworks haven't yet begun.

Will he use his mind? Please tell me it will involve telepathy!

I wonder if you honestly believe you've succeeded in convincing people that you and AM are not the same person.  You're clearly delusional enough.
I've been reading your posts here on and off for years now, your MO hasn't changed one bit.

TPTB_need_war, please stop this comedy, as it is transforming into a tragicomedy.

By now everyone who ever spoke to the TPTB_need_war account understand that the HONCHO account is a TPTB_need_war sockpuppet. Fine. You tried to come back this way, but it is getting creepy as you try to speak for the TPTB_need_war account like "AnonyMint is one clever mofo" and "Holier than thou, as AnonyMint would write" and "fathom the possibility that AnonyMint is so clever he found a paradigm" and "AnonyMint is more ideologically driven" and so on. Nobody on earth speak about TPTB_need_war like this ... except TPTB_need_war himself.

Take my word, stop this please,  it is getting weird. We respect your intellect in many ways, don't destroy your remaining own reputation like this.

Excuse me? "Us" referred to ArcticMine and myself, the only two people I remember on this thread that make your constant references to Monero remotely sensible, even though it is still a nonsensical argument.


Excuse me? I convinced TPTB to do nothing. He's his own person, capable of objectively evaluating reality and making his own decisions, or at least he was until this recent breakdown.


At this point I find myself largely in agreement with altcoinUK, I'm afraid.

My advice is to get yourself back to the US, preferably to a large city with good medical services, and seek the modern and competent medical attention and treatment that you so obviously need. The oregano oil isn't working for you.

despite the twists & turns, I'm still in, TPTB is an original for sure!

Good advice, but TPTB should still release his coin too

Yes he seems to have some very original ideas.

Oh hi Anonymint!  ;D

First time I've looked at BTT in a long while......nice to see things haven't changed all that much  :D
Hi, guys + girls (and socks) !

This place will never change. I have not been spending much time here lately either. The quality of the content has consistently gone down over the years.

Vaporware promotion. Sockpuppets. Arguments. Shilling. Speculation Advertisement Threads. FUD.

Yet, it can be entertaining at times.

How's that "NXT marketing" gig going for you?  1363 sats right now.  Wow, call me impressed.  So, how much more money do you think you can leech off the NXT community?

https://i.imgur.com/Db8rmZW.png (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq2lG_42X7s)

Will this coin be mined? Same algo as Bitcoin?

Don't get too exicted.  Anonymint only has a limited amount of time to release this coin before the men in white finally find him and haul him away to the funny farm.

If the idea is truly good, he has only to take this thoughts in order and write them down. Not necessarily hurry up to code and release. Sooner or later somebody will come and help.
But people like you, instead of supporting projects that may have a good outcome, just spend his time with useless attacks.

Let's hope so.

NAMI.org (http://NAMI.org)

I'm just concerned that it's already too late.

Definitely getting a little bizarre.
It just adds to the show though, now i really wanna see where this is going.

When I read this, that HONCHO says smooth has destroyed AnonyMint's reputation by hoodwinking (WTF) I understood that unfortunately HONCHO is a TPTB_need_war sockpuppet. Only the emotional and often  impulsive and sometimes hysterical TPTB_need_war says such melancholy nonsense which in the same time aggressive as well. God bless him, as I said we like him for many reasons, and I genuinely wish he be OK.

I told TPTB_need_war please start working with real people in real world crypto projects. I said to him, you need to be in a project and interacting with developers to unleash your potential instead of arguing in this forum. He said, no no, I want to work with the smartest, i.e. a person who is smarter than he is. Fair enough, but since fucking Einstein is dead, searching for the smartest than TPTB_need_war is an uphill task. So instead of working with anybody, he is go around in this forum by telling that he is the smartest. A bit bizarre as hmachado and others pointed out, but again, I wish I could help him to sort out his problems.

One thing is sure, if I am wrong and HONCHO is not TPTB_need_war sockpuppet, which I doubt very much, but lets assume the unlikely that HONCHO is not TPTB_need_war, then the issue is bigger. This HONCHO nick act even weirder than TPTB_need_war does so don't expect anything more than a drama from the HONCHO-TPTB_need_war partnership.

Wow, 11 pages.  I did not expect that.

Not sure what's happening but I am going to pop some corn and watch

haha, I wish I was half as smart as he is. Baffled by his many antics (posting pics of his balls ....), but easy to recognize an authentic and genuine person

Many come here believing they are prophets of the new millennium only to end up on the same scrapheap as the hated scammers

Get your popcorn, then sit back and observe! There's a lesson here in the making

Administrator classification didn't apply to Ripple because it lacked both token issuance and withdrawal from circulation; yet as an exchanger, it controlled the transfer of issuance.

ArticMine do you agree that the exchanger classification doesn't apply if the issuance, transfer, and token supply are controlled by decentralized version control open-sourced, decentralized protocol? The owners of the tokens have the power to change the protocol and use their tokens on their own fork.

FinCEN thrice reiterated (https://www.fincen.gov/news_room/rp/rulings/pdf/FIN-2015-R001.pdf) the bit about users, exchangers, and administrators.

ICOs and premines are exchangers because there is central control over the token sales.

If the decentralized protocol controlled issuance of the DAO bypasses exchanger classification, whether a DAO bypasses SEC jurisdiction (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1471177.msg14896582#msg14896582) hinges on whether voting isn't a decentralized process (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1471177.msg14896582#msg14896582).

That seems like a pretty good description of this place. There should be a disclaimer when signing up that reading and posting will cause you to lose your soul.

why do you guys post so much bullshit in these forums? just be happy and dance! I do that.

ArticMine I remember you and some others from Monero writing that Zcash's plan to fund their foundation from mining would cause the miners to be classified as exchangers.

Zcash's foundation will not be in control of the creation of each coinbase transaction in each newly mined block. That is to be an encoding in the open-source decentralized protocol. The protocol and the open source process is in control, not the foundation nor the miner.

I conclude Zcash's plan bypasses FinCEN guidance. Whether Zcash's plan bypasses SEC jurisdiction is unclear. If investors of the Zcash token are basing their expectations of future gains on the future performance and control of the foundation and the Zcash corporation, then perhaps it can be construed that there is no decentralized open source process in play?

The introduction of a Zcash corporation which is the primary funding source for the developers working on the "open source" protocol seems to paint an impression of lack of decentralization. Even though the $74 million funded Blockstream corporation may be gaining dominance over the Bitcoin open source protocol, there has been protocol forking competition from Bitcoin Classic and XT.

Are you suggesting jl777 influenced a mentally ill TPTB to post as HONCHO, to save his angel investment in supporting TPTB previously? Can you be a little less cryptic, that's a very big accusation to make against jl777. Are you joking?

Speculation and satire distended.

1) Does that really matter? If the miners will be in China anyway who cares?

2) This seems clear that they will, because Zcash is cutting edge technology that no one else understands, the Zcash team is the only team on earth that will be able to develop it further.

@eca.sh, you're TPTB, correct? If yes, then it wouldn't be speculation on your part, you would know what transpired, correct? If you're not TPTB, then speculation and satire are fine.

I think we need clarification from jl777 and TPTB asap. I would be delighted if those two guys were working together, but the HONCHO stuff is getting a little much. Shoot straight guys!

All Star Coin Team:

Shelby Product Owner
CfB Designer
James Developer/Designer

David Promotion/Marketing

Craig Wright Fund Manager

External Partner for AT : CIYAM

DMOON

Are you sure that dream team is not a nightmare? Wake up because I have bridge to nowhere in China...


Agreed.


What could possibly go wrong with that.

And it wouldn't be complete without klee investing a godzillion Nxt he didn't allow a thief to steal by storing his password in an online dropbox.

kLee Security Expert

Wow interesting team proposal.

But somehow I still prefer CfB doing what he is doing now.

~CfA~

Ferrocement boats aren't all that bad.  There are supposedly some that are like 100 years old, but if they aren't built or maintained well, the water getting into the steel rebar will rust it - then the whole thing just becomes brittle and dies.

aaaand, of course not to forget the inevitable stage clown:

https://i.imgur.com/DOvvl0n.png


why does it suddenly feel like early 2014 again?  ;D

Guys it would be nice if you could not spam the thread with unrelated stuff

Cheers!

How did Shellby's name get involved in this?

By klee using it.

Hi I'm new here on bit coin talk
who is Shellby?

appearently Shellby is satoshi  ???

Thank you
So Satoshi is still posting ~ glad to know.

He is a crazed lunatic who's lost his mind in my opinion from infesting himself with an unknown set of diseases most likely from him acting upon his advocation of promiscuous sex.

I am asking klee what is the relevance of his introduction of the name Shellby in response to my question which did not mention any Shellby: “Ask him to ask David where klee "sourced" the iota name from in 2014”.

Shut up and code

Ah so ~BCX~ has not reestablished himself as the Houdini prophet or purveyor of doom.

That isn't your opinion unless I am misinterpreting your definition of "promiscuous", for which I presume the definition of sex with more than one person in a lifetime.

He claimed that about himself. You can locate the relevant quote.

Welcome back !!!

I think there are some breakthroughs coming for anon.

In the mean time, this could be a fun diversion:
https://underhandedcrypto.com/2016/01/27/rules-for-the-2016-underhanded-crypto-contest/

Bitcoin needs code-reviewers, possibly more even than coders.
These exercises can be great ways to get folks thinking, and observing.

I hope he's back

I'm thinking he might actually be gone this time ....

Looks like it's time for a repost.



~BCX~


https://i.imgflip.com/14e7tu.jpg

your feeble hints in conjunction with anonymint's threats to "destroy" monero because he feels offended by somediscussions like a little boy and not the 50 yo MAN he should be explains your current FUD offensive.

So you ganged up, tough boys?

You guys are are disappointingly weak characters.

Imo Monero doesn't need threats, it has effectively been destroying itself over the years already ^_^

Any update here?

Pretty sure he gave up everything and decided to look into the failing piece of shet STEEM instead.

Any updates here? iamnotback is there another thread about dev?

He has another thread with several pages, actually several threads, he says he has a bitcoin killer... I been hearing about him and his supposed bitcoin killer for ages now and I have never seen anything released as far as I know. If it can really solve the problem of massive onchain scaling while remaining decentralized and has the same strong security of the bitcoin network, I want to invest... but it sounds too good to be true. He would be sitting on billions of dollars.

What happened to anonymint (aka TPTB_need_war), where did he go?

He knows too much. The silence him :-X

He had health problems, hope he is still alive, he was a good dude, very informed about many topics.

He's still alive. Most of his accounts on this forum have gotten banned.