Bitcoin Forum

bitcoin needs to go mainstream but it cannot go

The corporations and companies are in favor of increasing the block size to handle the increasing number of transactions. The massive consumer adoption and bitcoin moon moment is not going to happen without this change.


Miners are against increasing block size since it affects their profits, they feel shameful to tell this , so  they identify themselves as vanguards of bitcoin principles such as decentralization, as it favors large centralized miners. A classic example of how self interest can hamper the very own thing that they are working upon. Developers also join this bandwagon.

Could it be that satoshi had envisioned this crisis long before? or did he design it in such a way that this crisis ensures bitcoin does not go mainstream and bitcoin remains a low player, very much suitable for criminal activities alone?

Which ones? The ones invested in Blockstream are probably happy with small blocks, or don't give much shit about it.


Last time I checked most miners wanted block increase. That's why (some of the) Core devs agreed to 2mb hardfork after SegWit during HK agreement.

No, it doesn't.

http://listverse.com/2009/07/19/10-useful-inventions-that-went-bad/

No, he couldn't have possibly predicted that bitcoin will become so big that people will start fighting with each other for self gains, or that it will be used by criminals. He was a scientist, he invented something great but as explained in the link above, we as humans have tendency to fuck everything up.

Tl;dr, Don't blame the inventor for it.

If bitcoin doesn't go mainstream it will be stucked at the price of 400-450$ forever or maybe less. Because in time more people will get sick of stable prices and leave bitcoin. (Sounds like a ponzi lol)

Bitcoin needs to reach more people. Bitcoin is like a company. If it doesn't grow, it will shrink.

You can buy pizza,weed,vape,drugs with bitcoins. Isn't it mainstream already ?

Corporate and companies are only trying to centralize bitcoins.

Don't know where that is coming from .Doesn't make sense.

You can buy pizza,weed,vape,drugs with bitcoins. Isn't it mainstream already ?

oh common can u do that in Africa and INdia?

I highly, highly doubt that there is any sort of crisis that Satoshi is the master of. The 1mb was most likely designed around the lack of a need for a larger block size during the initial stages of Bitcoin, and thus it was just an initial design feature that we're likely going to have to change at some point soon.

There was no point having double the blocksize (and subsequently double the data) during the first years of Bitcoin, and it makes sense since we are only now starting to fill the blocks to capacity.

Are you claiming that Satoshi Nakamoto is a real life Hari Seldon? I think not. Sorry, Satoshi Nakamoto is just a person. She is not a god, nor a super-hero, nor even a super-genius.

blockstream also want big blocks.. but im guessing you have fallen for the icebreaker misdirect..

you really should look at some code some time. and see that as of 2017 blockstream will he happy that core is making blocks with potential of over 5mb in size.. even though it only offers an estimated 7600 transactions..(1tx:657byte)

as oppose to the original plans of 2015 which was 2mb for 5000 (1tx:400byte)

note: standard tx today is actually about 400byte average.. the misconception of 250byte is not todays reality anymore... but certainly better than blockstreams future feature filled tx's of over 650-750bytes

which ofcourse even forgetting the extra 250byte bloat for all of blockstreams features.. blockstream suggesting all of their features are network safe means that 5mb of standard old fashioned transactions would have been safe too offering potential 12500 transactions per block.. as oppose to blockstreams 7600tx for the same amount of data transmission

kind of funny how the last years drama has worked to sway people into such a stupid saga of a one way roadmap of bloat..

but i will now wait to see the usual suspects throw insults and no stats to try to sway people that blockstream is better then sliced bread and anything i say holds no water..

I don't think satoshi had envisioned half of what would happen to bitcoin. He limited the block size as a temporary measure, it's unlikely he planned for the consequences years later. Similarly i doubt he realised the CIA would ask Gavin to give a bitcoin presentation to them, but they did.

Doesn't need "mainstream", just organic growth would do me.


I am also in favour of a blocksize increase. It could have been a small increase introduced by Core. But any mention of such logic is scoffed at as Classic shilling. (yeah classic rekt thread full of childish presumption, self rightiousness)
1mb as a "limit" it's quite ridiculous.


Not sure that is correct. Miners will follow the profit, there are other ways. Sudden change is not an impossibility.


Didn't he foresee how sudden consensus in a crisis could be the norm?
Core's segwit imposed as a soft fork is an attack on bitcoin and will be exposed as such.
Miners are playing ball with Core atm, but will not hang around in "a real crisis".
(coming soon either via stoneage block congestion or segwit bugs. not sure what may come first)
If the only option out of the next price collapse is Classic, so be it. The miners will have no option.

FWIW, the first dev version of Bitcoin from Satoshi that I saw didn't even have a block size limit at all.  So, I'd pretty emphatically say this crisis wasn't her idea.

Putting a limit on the block size was Hal Finney's idea, because he was running down that standard list of threats and got to "Denial of Service."

It was considered a temporary measure, just to prevent stupid stuff from happening. At the time bitcoin was still sort of imaginary nerd money and some 4chan troll would likely have tried to spike it with an impossible-to-store block chain just for the lulz.  None of us ever imagined it would become this point of contention.

Yeah.
Now it is core (are hoping) insurance of segwit adoption.

"this crisis wasn't her idea" - Nice touch.

I see people on here being asses to the female half of humankind every so often, and I'd like to remind them that we don't even know which half of humankind Satoshi was a member of. 

Thankyou.

No. He just never imagined that intelligent development would come screeching to a halt the moment he left. :D

~~

(hint: change the damn constant until you have a better idea ready.)

yes, the price is also going down because of this

Have you been on holiday, Holliday? Haven't bumped into you in a while. I hear the corned beef hash is on sale today. lol

All the rug rats here think Bitcoin should be used by everyone in the world so they can sell their .0005 bitcoins for a million dollars. Hurrah for mainstream! ROFL

I disagree, but not with malice. If the bitcoin price were more stable, traditional finance would be less reluctant to invest. The risk due to volatility is simply too great, there is much to gain, but so much that can be lost. Also, I think consumers are used to fixed fiat prices, it's still a little weird that I can lose 1 to 3 percent of my value with a tiny price fluctuation. If the prices at Wal-Mart did that, I'd blow a gasket in short order  ;D

Why can't bitcoin go mainstream? It can, just with a little more promotion.

I doubt satoshi had envisioned this "crisis". I don't even think this is a crisis. It's just a problem, like any other that can be solved. After all, satoshi is the founder of bitcoin. He wants to bring good to the community...

Or does he? ;)

i dont agree with that,i can't assume that bitcoin can't going mainstream now,since it founded people more know and many of them start adopt bitcoin,this is good and part of long way to be mainstream and more people will aware that bitcoin is one of many better investement and currency in this world for better future.

Thing is, we have the lightning network soft fork which is good. But I do agree that the block size HAS to be increased, if there simply isn't the capacity and transactions stall, they will simply use the more expensive but working alternative. The best system in the world isn't worth diddly squat if it doesn't work.

The lightning network is a great idea, and this can be implemented with a soft fork. They seemed to have found a way to increase the block size in some way via a soft fork too, I think by only including essential data in the block to 'simulate' an increase?

I am with the core devs on this one, why do a hard fork if you can do the same result with a soft fork? Although a hardfork could be more of a pain when t is more adopted.

I think your giving satoshi way more intelligence than he is due, satoshi hadnt a clue what was going to be happening now.  For example he didnt foresee Asics and the whole mining arms race at the beginning, he thought we would still be using CPU.  He was just a cleaver man, not Yoda...... ;D

probably he created bitcoin not to go mainstream, but for another purposes.

No, that's surely not his plan, except if you're still dumb enough to think Craig is Satoshi. Also, I don't see why miners would lose money by increasing the block size. That's more node runners who will have a bigger bandwith usage that will get penalised.

Satoshi must have designed bitcoin with the expectation of creating digital gold. Mining and limited supply are some of confirmation for this. Then, it is obvious he must have expected this much growth of bitcoin.
We can also guess, block size of 1MB must be a temporary solution with the plan of updating it according to the future requirements.

Nothing that has happened in the last year is satoshi's fault. Bitcoin is like the world wide web - it is beyond the control of it's creator and developing in unforseen ways. Crypto in general is a very exciting space and we still don't know which coin will win the race - and I expect satoshi will be as surprised with the final result as anyone else.

I agree on this part. Because there were very less chances for underestimating bitcoin ecosystem like it was suitable only for few micro transactions.  Even, Satoshi had targeted for micro transactions it has nothing to do with the higher value of bitcoin nor grown popularity of bitcoin ecosystem.

You know that bigger block sizes can be implemented in a heart beat, if consensus are reached... right? The miners will never willingly allow for Bitcoin not to succeed.. if they see a incoming crisis, and

a need for a change to prevent that crisis, then they will reach consensus very fast. Why would they kill the cow... if it still produce milk? Satoshi would never have wished for Bitcoin to stay small.. he

made it scalable, but he also wanted people to reach consensus, before this scaling were done. If he wanted it to stay small... he would have coded it that way.. and he did not.  ::)

I strongly disagree with the discussions of bitcoin can not become mainstream of payments.

In my view bitcoin is going to replace paypal or even dollars too in terms of highly being used through online.
We can assume bitcoin will start being used online as main stream adoption then gradually into physical world.

You've all set satoshi up to be an all seeing, all knowing God so I guess this is the next logical step.

Here's a look at the step right after this one.



http://44112news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/jim-jones_peoples-temple_jonestown-massacre.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XD2Uc1gImn0/UUVqlpO-_KI/AAAAAAAABPs/c7ZW2Q6yP18/s1600/q.jpg

yes probably satoshi could have plan this issues, but it's not a possibility a "fail" , just wait in the end we can see a solution about this debate

I agree with this that it beyond way expectation of the creator that it will be more popular and blew up the market and know that is bitcoin is big. Crpyto is just like a ghost we don't know whats it made from and what is the composition of it. Its just like on the outer space roaming around and cannot be seen by everyone. Bitcoin is the most revolutionize many that we have right now and can earned a lot on it. Just don't be greedy on it and you will dance like a star soon.  ;D

I think satoshi feels like 1 mb blocks will be enough for future transactions and i still believe that he have never thought bitcoin will be accepted by big brands like steam and dell. But he have made this opensource so that anyone can fork it to adapt with future need but lots of politics is going into block size debate. I personally love 2 mb block.

Stop with these crazy theories. Satoshi designed Bitcoin as experiment and he didn't even know if 1 BTC will be worth more than 1 dollar someday.
Not to mention it will be mainstream currency. He did not have any master plan so stop overthinking  this. Overcoming problems like these are just part of bitcoin evolution.

I don't think.

It is obvious that no one will want to develop a limited system. Everyone will put their effort for a  system which must be versatile in all means.
So, definitely Satoshi would have developed bitcoin system with an ambition of mainstream adoption of payment systems.