Bitcoin Forum

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That's great, entrepreneurial spirit is always welcome :)

Seems like the MySQL server is having some trouble right now.

Yeah, I have not been able to check this site since I've read the post :(
I'd like to learn of any and all exchangers. I know they're limited as of now but I hope they start popping up soon.

Exchangers are not going to stick around until there is real commerce happening within BC. I mean, why would an exchanger sit around and accept bitcoins that are generated on your computers? They are going to just blow out their float of dollars and fold. (End up with a pile of coins and no dollars forever waiting for someone to buy the coins again with dollars).

We are in a sort of "chicken and egg" situation at the moment.

Exchangers wont stick around until they can move money in both directions and somewhat evenly. (And can see some sort of a profit of course).

In order for an exchanger to sell bitcoins (more than can be generated by an average user's computer, of course) to someone, they need customers who have dollars and want coins. They would buy coins with dollars (from an exchanger) because they don't have the computational power to generate enough in a short enough timeframe to make the required purchase. (ex. I am not going to sit here and wait a year to generate enough coins to buy a t-shirt online. It might not fit me by then, or it might be out of style.. lol!)

Also, a merchant is not going to sell products for coins when they know that the exchangers are out of dollars. They would know that they can't get their value out. (Essentially reducing the value of the coins to nothing. I can buy coins by -- essentially -- paying my power bill but if I can't pay my power bill with these coins I am running at a loss. They would be worth less than $0). They will just revert back to dollars. One could argue that the merchant could still accept the coins -- sure -- but they would just pile them up hoping that one day they could get their value out. Most businesses would see this as unnecessary risk.

What traditionally defines "money" (talking fiat here) is what you can use for the payment of taxes. And I don't see the governments taking bitcoin as a form of payment anytime soon.

One could (in theory) start your own country and mandate payment in bitcoins. That would be one way around that mess, but you would need adoption. One man (or a hand-full) by himself on an island will surely fail in trade. Humans live in hives; like bees. :P Why did/do we have a queen? :P

(And I digress..)

Here is my proposal: I am going to actually sell goods with bitcoin. I am willing to take the risk because I believe in a new online economy. I understand all of the risks involved. I would like to partner (I will settle for another man's word) who can exchange in/out of dollars for me at a fair value that will keep customers happy. I will do this because I know that for in order for this system to succeed we need exchangers AND goods/services.

Cheers and good luck!

I've coded a web service that enables automatic money exchange of bitcoins. Send me a PM if you want to check out the site. Now I just need 1) the command line access to Bitcoin 2) permission from Moneybookers to do money exchange (or change to another system) and 3) some testing. The reserve euros for buying coins will be from myself and hopefully some other donators, and the profit will be added to the backup capital. I'll adjust my pricing according to supply and demand so that I'll never run out of either bitcoins or euros. It's the only sensible pricing in the long run.

It will be a more professional-style service than the currently existing ones. That will make it possible to market the system to people who already sell stuff. The first users will probably need to be some sort of idealists, as the immediate economic advantage of adopting bitcoin is not too big. It's ok if they just immediately traded to euros/dollars all the bitcoins they get from customers. Just that they accept bitcoins is absolutely great, as it increases the trust in the currency. We could make a "Trade" page on the bitcoin.org main site, where you can get your web shop address if you add some kind of a "we accept Bitcoins" -logo on your site.

When we reach the critical mass of maybe 20-100 shops accepting Bitcoin, the growth of the Bitcoin economy might jump to a whole another level.

Good Stuff. However, you will find that getting donations to float your reserves to be difficult. Be prepared to invest your own money.

I have had people buy bitcoins from me and sell bitcoins to me. Supply and demand, albeit only a small amount, already exists and is all that is really needed. Offering to exchange bitcoins for another currency is ultimately no different from exchanging bitcoins for goods or services. Currencies are goods and exchanging them is a service. I have been trying to think of something besides USD dollars which I can try to buy or sell using bitcoins, but I can't think of anything. Please let us know about whatever you decide to sell for bitcoins. As for the issue of burning through funds, I have written a daily donation into my budget. You can buy all my USD dollars or bitcoins today, but there will always be more tomorrow and the next day. Each person who buys or sells goods using bitcoins, including exchangers, is increasing the bitcoin economy. Everyone, do your part. Buy or sell something in exchange for bitcoins!

apperantly the mysql problem got fixed

There are 2 things which could improve the situation here:

First, enthusiasts don't need to accept their whole payments in bitcoin for the goods and services. Accepting only 10%-20% of the price as BTC will create public interest/awareness and will reduce risk to a minimum.

Second, bitcoin developers could take the time to contact some charity organizations and encourage them to accept donations in BTC (who wouldn't like to donate $1 to starving children as they work on their computer?). Only problem is, these charities will not save bitcoin for later not use it. Instead they will all rush to cash in their money ASAP. If the developers are willing to accept the monetary losses for potential publicity, then it can be very worthwhile. To participate in the project, I can contact a couple of Islamic charities I'm familiar with if you guys like the idea.

There's no need for the one to invest real money to be a developer :p


What would it take for you to sell money or stuff thats worth something for bitcoins?


(I was going to write what it would take for me here, but then I started thinking and came up with like 20 vague new ideas, and now it's late here and I have to sleep :p)

Did you get out too early?

I know you didn't stick around to see if your original speculations were accurate, but look at us now ----> https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets

I love these old threads!  We've come a long way, Babie!