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Just voted (by post) in the referendum. I voted to come out. I reckon over time power should become decentralised and accountable. Not the total opposite, as is the case with the EU. FWIW I think the immigration issue is a bit of a red herring - they let people in before, and they will let them in after Europe. How else they gonna keep wages down ?

Anyhow, according to the polls, the UK could well be pulling out of Europe.

Should there be a referendum about our membership of NATO ?

Why would we pull out of NATO? NATO requires any member state that is under attack to be supported by all other NATO states. I guess you love Corbyn too and his idea to get rid of our nuclear arsenal. NATO defends against conventional warfare, nuclear defends against absolute war.

Corbyn is a clown and his party doesnt have a chance of getting elected while he is captain of the ship.

You would have to a complete idiot to scrap Trident at this point, the world is becoming a more dangerous and not safer place.

Byebye - actually let the UK set an example for what happens ;)

So what is going to happen,

France/Germany going to suddenly stop selling their produce to us?

Trade works both ways and we can hit back just as hard if you start spitting your dummies out because we bailed from your sinking ship.

Merkel brought all this on, the bitch should be lined up against a wall and shot as a traitor.

Let me guess you live in one of the parasite countries.

Lets see what happens when the UK's £4.5 billion is no longer in the pot for the scroungers to fight over, after the UK France will shortly follow because the real people have had enough of the multi cultural experiment.

Net contributions:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/europe/09/eu_budget_spending/img/graph_net_contrib_466x485.gif

I would be very intrigued to see the nato treaty conditions put to the test. I suspect it may not be as rock solid as some expect.

Ok lets do so some reality check:

So what is going to happen,


EU BIP 2015: 14.625.373 Million €

UK BIP 2015: 2.568.941 Million €

=> 17,5 %

UK is neither dominating the EU econimacally nor politically.

In the end if it leaves and still wants to trade, there is only the skadinavian/CH solution.
But that would mean that UK is trolling itself (less rights, same trade agreements)



Ever looked at the EU Budget? Im sure not, because else you would know that the budget from 2014-2020 is as high as 1 trillion € (10^12 €).
Lets do some easy math:
1 trillion € / 6 ~= 166.6 billion € (1.66 € * 10^11)

Ok, so the yearly EU budget is ~166.6 billion € from 2014-2017.

4,5 / 166,6 ~= 0,027 => 2,7%

much astonishing, so wow

btw. my taxes pay the fucking UK rabate and i live in a nation that stands above everyone else as a netto payer. -.-

so yeah parisites and stuff right? damn island monkeys

The real problem is our association with the US. The US seems to be intent on forcing regime changes and destabilising Europe and Asia. They created ISIS by removing Gaddafi, and if Assad goes the situation will get much worse. You must remember that the US hasn't won a war since their civil war, and half of them lost that. Right now, it looks as if the UK would be safer if it built ties with China and Russia, and distanced itself from the US. We don't want TTIP for example.

As one person put it - Russia committed an act of belligerance by placing its country so close to American military bases. :)

You believe that McDonald's and all the American enterprise will leave the Uk? The Chinese will stop to sell...

No it's a very good question... What is the point of NATO? To fight against Soviet Union. Where is Soviet Union?

The core problem is that Russian people are very friendly to western people, but Russian leaders don't want to be plundered by western terrorists. Remember they let all the vassal states go INDEPENDENT!!! And look at what the Europeans and Americans are doing for the little Crimea... Whooaaa 9000 deaths, unbearable suffering on people that don't want to be with corrupt westerners. So if NATO is used to provoke Russia... American heartland will be gone... (The coastal maybe great but please... It wasn't called MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION for fun). Western looter in their hubris missed this point... Problem is that out or in when the Russians decide to leave earth, no one will survive... A few bugs, maybe. Massive, tsar like.

Who will in the west have the courage to recognize Crimea as Russian inalienable territory? I am sure the Russians will help him/her save face and really explain that it's an EXCEPTION (add eastern non radiation low radiation contaminated land and you get the head of the Damascus guy on a plate and maybe with some negotiations a regime change in Iran who will be anti nuke... The art of the deal. Something you don't learn in law school (specially softward) ((okay it's not enough add whiterussia and deal? ;-))

inshalla brother. alahu akbar.

wtf ???

And after all your maths and counter argument that we contribute not a lot your still crying that we are about to bail out of the shit fest that is the EU.

Well of the Europeans cut up rough, wanting to "punish" us for our leave vote, then pulling out of NATO is a potential weapon we can use. We've just sent troops and planes to Eastern Europe to protect them from the Russians. But the eastern europeans don't even pay their minimum 2% to defence as required under NATO rules.

Why bother to defend them if they won't help us get the trade deal we want? So yes, it's possible, it can and will be used as a negotiating ploy if things get difficult.

Fair point.


Amen - couldn't agree more. US has a lot of carnage to answer for in this world, and I'm sure it will - the military industrial complex US that is, not the ordinary people who have to do the groundwork.

Do you know who I want protecting from ? The ruling elite and their minions.

If we here, on a bitcoin forum, believe in decentralisation, why not disintermediate the central holders of military power as well as financial ? Or doesn't decentralisation apply here ?

I'd miss our NATO membership like a hole in the head personally.

what?
in my two post i say bye bye to you guys.
right now i would really be happy if you people just vote no and get out (getting emotional and stuff) :)


the other stuff (maths and arguments) were just setting things straight because it seemed you were trying to show a different picture of reality.


/edit

btw i never said you contribute nothing. i said you neither dominate the EU economically or politically!

No Germany bullies the smaller countries to sing their tune or say good bye to the bail outs

Your country pays the UK rebate :D..No we pay our own rebate thanks.. 350 million a week..The EU takes 175 MILLION never to be seen again..And the other 175 million we get told by the EU how there going to spend it in the UK..No thanks i would rather tell myself how to spend it..

Tell you what you give me 2 thousand pounds and i will keep half of it so you got 1 thousand pounds left ..
Now what will happen with the 1 thousand you got left i will buy you a new shirt cost 100 pounds and i will buy you a lawn mower 200 pounds
and i will get your house painted 700 pounds is this OK..
Well you got no choice this is what i am spending your 1 thousand pounds on..WHAT'S UP..You say you don't like the stuff i bought you?..
And you say what about the other 1 thousand you give me 2 thousand..No you give me that 1 thousand for protection..you say what protection..
The protection from muslims and ....Russia  ??? plus i will let you sell on my market..And if you say no I will tax all your goods that you buy from now on...DO WE HAVE A DEAL?

YOU PAY NOTHING TO THE UK THE UK PAYS IT'S SELF..We want out of your shitty EU..
Germany still not got over there asses getting kicked 2 do you want to make 3..Don't threaten the UK..We will soon see who does well in life..

You said you pay the UK rebate..NO YOU DON'T..We import way more than export the like BMW.. VW.. Mercedes.. Audi..Now imagine if we never bought those cars no more.

Wow had to stop me self there..Sorry German people i was wrong to mention the war I am sorry
It's not the people It's the big companies and the politicians i am pissed at..

SO TO THE GERMAN PEOPLE I AM SO SORRY..I was wrong to stir up the people of Germany..
I know the true Germans feel the same way as we do..

The French have had a tit full too,

They also now want a referendum :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/07/france-shuns-europe-as-brexit-revolt-spreads/


In some ways we need thank Merkel - She is the one that killed the EU through her immigration policy.

We also need to thank the immigrants for the rape, pillage and generally acting like wankers, will just help us shut the door and start deporting that much quicker.

LETS FACE IT OUR WORST ENEMIES ARE OUR OWN LEADERS..DO WE ALL AGREE..
When are we going to get a leader that takes no back handers?..And does right by the people for the people?
Seems becoming a politician is a way to make money too rule the world?
Now i always thought a politician is someone who wants to change the world for good not fucking rule it for the bad..
And also your voted in to do what the people say.. Not your own thoughts how the world should be or how much you can make..

We need a new law were politicians when they serve there terms we need to see if they been paid more than they was suppose to get..And if they got more money than the wages they been paid for the job they have been doing as an MP..If they got more then they should go to jail..

5 years at 150k a year or bit more but just say 150k ..750k should of been paid into your bank account if there is any more then they should go to jail..

And no charities in your name the biggest scam ever..

New it all along I someone would pull out so now we sell to France ;D
CAN I HERE PAPA :D VA VA VOOM ;D

ANYONE ELSE WANT TO LEAVE ?

The farce is that the NSA and sisters eyes know. This is the part that is hard to rationalize... For example every single bribes (money, sexual exploitation etc) that the clintons did are accounted, logged and save in nuclear proof redundant facility accross the USA and certinaly in some foreign military installation. When will it be enough. I can see usage of black files... But when they become the backbone of the state it's not gonna end well...

No, it's not, because article 5 is not legally binding and nobody is obliged to follow the orders from NATO HQs. Just read the charter and stop believing the propaganda. The only sense of NATO is justification of wasting your money.

P.S. Warsaw Treaty Organization was a copy of NATO in this term. And look what has happened, in 1968 Romania refused to follow the orders from the headquarters, and nothing happened to them. The rest of WTO wasn't able to do anything with Romania, since this article about mutual defence is not legally binding.

The removal of gaddafi is down to France and Sarkozy itching for a war because he thought it would win him re-election. Unfair to stick that on the Americans.

Also, American dealings with the world come in waves - up until Kennedy, the only "interference" was siding with the Allies in the world wars - and they were right to.

It was Kennedy that set in the rot by taking the US into Vietnam.

@popcorn

It is the truth. All other eu memberstates are paying/subsidizing the UK rabate.

It is wrong if you say the UK would pay it itself - eu buget doesnt work like that.

Also the UK doesnt pay 100% and get 66,6% back - you just pay 33,3%, the rest comes from the 27 other EU member states.

But that are details we already talked about in a thread months ago. S
The vote is in 2+ weeks so just wait and drink some tea.

Do you people think the vote will be manipulated in one or another way?

So your saying if the UK leaves we will loose out because we wont get money off other countries?..So your saying we pay 33.3% and get back 66.6% back in a rebate because other countries give us free money?

No chance we pay 350 million a week and only get half back even our politicians are saying it
there saying we don't pay 350 million they say we get half back in a rebate..
So lets say then the 350 million is wrong ..They all agree we pay 150 million a week for membership of the EU which is a lot of money..
But my point is my life will not be run by Big companies no thanks..Plus to many people in my country i want my gran children to have a job and be able to get a house?

Islam will run my country if we don't get out..I hate religion but Christianity and Jews i will only except because Well need i say more about Islam..
Islam totally clashes with British values..I don't give a fuck if your a Muslim and was born in my country..Your no true Brit because if you was you would ether give up religion or be a Christian..

I want British values not Islam values YES BRITISH VALUES..Not someone who never been to hull
telling me how hull should be run..
I know what these big businesses are doing..Do they live in these streets no in some mansion
with a gated community or on an island living the life..
They pack a city with people and how much transport gets used and rent ..but the native who are poor get moved out and left to rot..

And as for manipulation be no surprise..But if close we will call for another one till we get out

Believe me most true Brits don't give a shit about the money it's British values that matter..
Our laws our land ISLAM is not from Britain it's from the desert..

pack a city with people drives the rent and transport prices up..
Never waited 2 weeks to see a doctor never in my life..

That is fine with me.
I can understand how you feel it is just i'm on the side of the people who belives integration will work - sometimes it just needs a bit longer - and also that a religion like islam can transform in something peacefully.

For example christanity wasnt always that peaceful either - even nowadays we stll have christian fanatics even though they are imo a really small minority.

Islam does not integrate..My sister has 2 kids to a black guy so there is integration at play
Not with a Muslim they arrange the marriage they treat women like shit and are totally backward
thinkers compared to British values..They hate gay people In fact they hate anyone who not a muslim..Now not all will feel like this BUT FUCKING MOST DO..

For example christanity wasnt always that peaceful either - even nowadays we stll have christian fanatics even though they are imo a really small minority.YOU SAY..

Not in my country not for the last 150 to 200 years ago..ISLAM is a total clash with western values.

I think you miss understood somethings fundamental here... First always remember to think for yourself, to forget the one liner Twitter explanation from all sides. compare Libya to Syria? In both case the Shanghai pact refused to do anything and let the people there be bloodbathed by their benevolent authority. It's a fact.

You can't disagree unless you become irrational because of the product of efficient brainwashing. Note that i didn't say that the westerners were benevolent. I just wrote that in their irrational fear of being overthrown (tian an men II) or red revolution 3.0 both of those gov chose to side with the Syrian gov and the dead libian guy.

Now in one case the Us army intervened. In took a few days and all the critical infrastructure of the nation of what was once upon a time libia are safe. If the people could live together it could be up and running. Or if the people splited in 3 federal state with the us constitution transplanted (btw bringing the light to the savage). Of course some Sharee ha guys will have to be dominated otherwise...

But the main point is compare to Syria. Alep was the main commercial hub of Syria... It's dusted. How many years if suddenly the people want to live in peace to reconstruct? Maybe Chinese firms wanted that all along... To put Syria in ruble to use all their spare and idle real estate capacity. Who knows but one sure thing if Obama when the Russian had done a ICBM launch in the med sea had went rogue nigga street like the guy against Justin Bieber... Omg the little pussy boy of the Kremlin would have shit his pants. This is the core problem of so called bounty people... You had to be violent to tame the natives even more to rule the slaves...

Same with Russia same with China...and go for the kill Syria what ever. It's called respect. It's the way of life against animals. It's how you beat the shit of your opponents and his own mother will cry and tell him to surrender. Not this pussy gays / trans cultural Marxist shit.

You have to understand that nuking Teheran will happen.

Now about your Kennedy bullshit, it's called world currency status curses, meaning from the incredible advantage that the $ provide the us MUST be the sherif of this world. It means having the biggest offensive military in the world to defeat the world combine (messianic imperial defense) and be able kill shot anyone anywhere anytime. You will note that I am with those that believe that the is constitution must be implemented everywhere otherwise those who aren't freed will become enemy to defend their oligarch. The technological gap can't maybe be guaranteed all the time that's why preemptive warfare is necessary. And yes war is the most unfair for the asymmetrically weaker.

Welcome to the real world. Why isn't Europe under the constitution of the USA? Only modifications to the text is to remove the potus and switch to a council... But this one is still debatable as long as the separation of power works (aka the Marxists of the USA do everything to consolidate ear warren... She doesn't even now the foundation...

IN GOD WE TRUST

OK, first you are thinking about leaving EU.
After that, you may leave NATO.
What is next?
Leave UN, World bank etc.
I know that UK is island and they always was separated, in some way, from European continent but they should understand that they can't be political or economic island as well.
Where UK will sell their products?
Who will protect them from Russia?
What Scotland will do if UK leave EU?
Isolation is not solution and only creates more problems.

Impressive :o, never been to the rich part of London I guess... It's crazy how brainwashed you are. As I can't believe it how much are you paid to troll that shit? Still too poor to live in the nice area and have to settle in the Muslims ghettos?

Btw leaving all those organizations wouldn't in any way weaken the Uk! Independence is the path of the brave and the free. And if the products are good, merchants and traders will come to the uk to have them... Don't worry about it. You play the politics of fear... Let's do it your way:

The Europeans union decide to hunt the royals in Europe, forbid the usage of English to impose german and Arabic, transform buckingham in central mosk of London aka buckingmosk, forbid all trades with former dominions (Canada australia) and colonies to favor intra European trade, transform house of lord and of the people into city council with no right to refuse with legislation, abolish non metric units(criminalize their usage) abolish the pounds, everyone have to learn to drive the proper way... Ahh the dream taming the perfidious Albion by their own stupid inhabitants... The Roman dreamt it, the eurogermantechnocrats did it!

Little CHINKS WITH SLIT EYES 2FT TALL ..Your weapons are fuck all compared to the west
We will blast you from space Your nukes are useless...

You little CHINA MAN JOE ARE FUCK ALL..

BRING IT ON YOU LITTLE FUCKIN CHINKS. 1 BRIT WOULD SMASH 10 CHINKS IN A FIGHT
I KNOW I WOULD ANYWAY..
PICK YOU LITTLE CHINKS UP AND BITE YOUR HEADS OFF IN 1 GO..

 Not this pussy gays / trans cultural Marxist shit...

YOUR WEAPONS ARE SHIT..WE HAVE SPACE WEAPONS..

HOW DARE YOU THREATEN ME FUCKING CHINK

And not even a thank you when Britain and USA saved CHINA from the japs

See it's not that everyone is gay or trans or what ever ..It's a small percent of a population..
but it's the fact they are free to be who they want to be as long as they hurt no one..

I.E Like if a woman shits in a mans mouth very dirty BUT as long as there happy then i am for them..And yes there is people out there like this..

Now if this is what i have to fight the whole world to except then this is my fight ..
to every land in the world must be crushed to think like this ..IT'S CALLED FREEDOM..

AND YOU FUCKING CHINKS STOP EATING DOGS YOU DIRTY BASTARDS

in fact you eat anything that crawls..and leave all the fucking animals with horns you fucking murderer's..
You have no idea you chinks how to treat people ..You fucking torture your own people dirty bastards

If the anglo-saxons in the future do not want to make of their island a new Atlantis, it is best to get out of NATO

For popcorn:


Dan yur: hehehe

Also Chinese products are fucking useless fall to bit in 2 weeks..So i imagine your rockets
will blow up as soon as you send them fucking chink

The NATO should have been disbanded after the disintegration of the USSR, and the collapse of the Warsaw Pact. Right now, NATO is playing world police by invading countless third world nations, causing the death and displacement of millions of civilians. NATO member nations have become some of the worst perpetrators of human rights abuses (Turkey for example).

You be dead soft shit send a nuke and and your country will be gone dumb shit..
The whole world will light up green

Don't you mean there own leaders are the worst perpetrators of human rights abuses..

They hold there own people down with an iron fist..

Supporting the bashar and his Iranians friends will always take the lead. Third world countries must be invaded and occupied because they fuck like rabbits and otherwise will invade the west and ultimately Russia. The west and Russia are in the same boat and are both exploited by third worlders to gain military tech...

tell that to spartacus

Now I know why western governments don't like china now..

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT FREEDOM IS..And also your space program is shit..
We west will never let you join our space race..
And also the aliens will blast you out of the sky for eating dogs ;D

Your so stupid why do you think i want people to think if it hurts no one as long as it's 2 consenting adults..No matter what a person does if they hurt no one then they should be free to be who they want to be...
Now if you don't take the idea up you will have no chance of surviving your future in space exploration..Do you think there going to let you join the galactic law..YOUR 10 THOUSAND YEARS AWAY IN YOUR THOUGHTS...
For you to think humans are the only ones out there think again..

You define freedom by the time between the moment you are born and die?

And you mean what?..You got no freedom if your government says so..
Go kill some students because they want a voice..

Your so stupid why do you think i want people to think if it hurts no one as long as it's 2 consenting adults..No matter what a person does if they hurt no one then they should be free to be who they want to be...
Now if you don't take the idea up you will have no chance of surviving your future in space exploration..Do you think there going to let you join the galactic law..YOUR 10 THOUSAND YEARS AWAY IN YOUR THOUGHTS...
For you to think humans are the only ones out there think again..

And also Chinese  :D :D :D :D :D :D You have to copy everything the west has..
So if you robbed blue prints your making rockets that are 20 years behind :D :D :D

You only know how to copy.. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Nazism, slavery, racism, oligarchy, fascism, experiments on people, auto-da-fé, colonial enslavement of entire peoples, nuclear bomb, chemical weapons, bacterial weapons, coups, and so on.This all inventions of the western democratic "civilized" world What else do you moron said about the places without any "freedom" in the country of which you know nothing? stupid idiot

Your the dumb ass..Britain civilised the world..We where the first to except gays the first to except blacks and every other nation on this planet

BRITAIN CIVILISED THE WORLD WE BROUGHT THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION TO THE PLANET..
WE BRITISH FIGHT FOR FREEDOM..BRITAIN SHALL NEVER NEVER BE SLAVES..IN OUR SONG..

It's the 21st century..We British want to move forward and not have old gang masters telling us what to do we already been there..

Plus are you using the internet?

WELL THANK A GAY BRITISH MAN..STUPID ASS

 Have you ever wondered who invented computers? Meet Alan Turing, the father of programming science.

Your cowardly island that throughout its history to steal someone else's, will soon turn into an Islamic state and quasi-British woman will walk in hijabs))) because the anglo-saxons have enslaved the Vikings)))  ;D ;D ;D August 12, 1981 there was the first personal computer. anglo-saxons for this event are not relevant)))  ;D ;D ;D

No it wont we are leaving the EU so no one will be getting in unless your needed.
And we will have Hindus and SIKHS with skills and some not so skilled and controlled amount coming in.. But at least there peaceful..
OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER WEAR A HIJAB ..WE WILL BE CALLING FOR A BAN..
FUCK EU LAW BRITISH LAW MATTERS ONLY..

And CHINA AND RUSSIA WILL ALWAYS BE SHIT AT FOOTBALL :D :D
Cowards don't conquer ;D..Now we will conquer the worlds minds thoughts and ideas..
Because most of the planet still live in the olden days..

AND SHIT RUSSIA JUST SCORED  :D :D :D
I NEW I WOULD OPEN MY MOUTH TO SOON :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I don't get your point. It is true that some of the Muslim countries discourage family planning. But toppling Bashar al Assad and replacing him with Al Nusra / ISIS is not the solution. Assad is secular, while the opposition is hardcore Islamist. The situation will worsen under their rule, and millions of Syrians will flee to the European Union and the other western nations if they come to power.

The thing is, many choices in the Middle East are between an authoritarian or theological regime. If you want to keep extremism at bay, then is most cases you have to install a dictator. If you let the people choose, they often choose a religious government that threatens western interests. We're stuck between a rock and a hard place

Uneducated people tend to chose the politicians based on advice from their religious leaders. This is the case with most of the Muslim nations (perhaps with the exception of a few, such as Albania). And that is exactly why these nations should be ruled by secular dictatorships. The people are not skilled enough to chose their own leaders.

Biggest lie of non combatant who is doing propaganda for the Russian side. The Syrian unbelievers can't fight against Assad and his Iranians and Russian allies... It's impossible for the unbelievers to be part of war on this scale. It's only mujahideens who believes in the tenents of radical Islam who have the inner strength to defeat Evil.

And you should know it, farmer from Afghanistan rised and smashed the mighty red army, those same fighter rised again and said no to the American mining exploitation... 15 years later the summer session is well under way...

So what you support the son of Assad the father in massacring innocent people? Why does the kitty Russian people have to be involved in such a war that isn't her? Why? When people on the western border get shelled and cannot be helped and are let to fight alone the Ukrainian army? Why? This is the shame of the Kremlin and certainly a futur root cause of its downfall.

What would China do? Let Chinese be massacred next door and fight in somewhere so far away for people no one cares to stop a fucking pipeline that would lower gas price? Is Russia inadvertently became an enemy of China? You know there is a dragon and his friend the eagle together the biggest economic take off of ever was made in less than one generation.

So little bears should understand quickly, that it's time for serious management, see you after the dragon boat festival for a lesson in chineses interests.

Your little shit about imposing so called secularism aka your way of life on. Other people is a Putin dream, America spend a few trillions and they want their quoran and shaaree heea. It's their turf it's useless to waste resources against the mujahideen. Safeguarding the homeland, the western interest and Asia./Africa is hard enough.

Remember it started in a little town in Saudi Arabia to become the widest most diverse global empire ever from maroco to the Indonesian giant... Be aware Russian you have enter the jihad and I am not sure that with 150m people the motherland stand a chance... NATO will have to conquer us fast.

Remember it started in a little town in Saudi Arabia to become the widest most diverse global empire ever from maroco to the Indonesian giant... Be aware Russian you have enter the jihad and I am not sure that with 150m people the motherland stand a chance... NATO will have to conquer us fast.


No we have one 18 year old kid on a x box blasting the shit out of thousand of people 1000 miles away..war with people is old war..we use drones to wipe the field out then we move in ;)

you Chinese need to use your brains your only good at killing your own students who want a voice..
Not very good at killing other nations only your own people..

Also Russia would kick your ass More like BIG BEAR..Indonesian giant they got spud guns :D

Indonesian giant all they could do is throw rocks

I just did a poll for the FT
My percentage result was 96% oh really I thought it would have been a lot higher, one or two of the questions are tricky/loaded.

https://ig.ft.com/sites/how-should-i-vote-in-the-eu-referendum/ (https://ig.ft.com/sites/how-should-i-vote-in-the-eu-referendum/)

https://i.imgur.com/wCqQ3vh.jpg?1