Bitcoin Forum

===== BEGIN SIGNED MESSAGE =====
To the DAO and the Ethereum community,
 
I have carefully examined the code of The DAO and decided to participate after finding the feature where splitting is rewarded with additional ether. I have made use of this feature and have rightfully claimed 3,641,694 ether, and would like to thank the DAO for this reward. It is my understanding that the DAO code contains this feature to promote decentralization and encourage the creation of "child DAOs".
 
I am disappointed by those who are characterizing the use of this intentional feature as "theft". I am making use of this explicitly coded feature as per the smart contract terms and my law firm has advised me that my action is fully compliant with United States criminal and tort law. For reference please review the terms of the DAO:
 
"The terms of The DAO Creation are set forth in the smart contract code existing on the Ethereum blockchain at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413. Nothing in this explanation of terms or in any other document or communication may modify or add any additional obligations or guarantees beyond those set forth in The DAO’s code. Any and all explanatory terms or descriptions are merely offered for educational purposes and do not supercede or modify the express terms of The DAO’s code set forth on the blockchain; to the extent you believe there to be any conflict or discrepancy between the descriptions offered here and the functionality of The DAO’s code at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413, The DAO’s code controls and sets forth all terms of The DAO Creation."
 
A soft or hard fork would amount to seizure of my legitimate and rightful ether, claimed legally through the terms of a smart contract. Such fork would permanently and irrevocably ruin all confidence in not only Ethereum but also the in the field of smart contracts and blockchain technology. Many large Ethereum holders will dump their ether, and developers, researchers, and companies will leave Ethereum. Make no mistake: any fork, soft or hard, will further damage Ethereum and destroy its reputation and appeal.
 
I reserve all rights to take any and all legal action against any accomplices of illegitimate theft, freezing, or seizure of my legitimate ether, and am actively working with my law firm. Those accomplices will be receiving Cease and Desist notices in the mail shortly.
 
I hope this event becomes an valuable learning experience for the Ethereum community and wish you all the best of luck.
 
Yours truly,
"The Attacker"
===== END SIGNED MESSAGE =====
 
Message Hash (Keccak): 0xaf9e302a664122389d17ee0fa4394d0c24c33236143c1f26faed97ebbd017d0e
Signature: 0x5f91152a2382b4acfdbfe8ad3c6c8cde45f73f6147d39b072c81637fe81006061603908f692dc 15a1b6ead217785cf5e07fb496708d129645f3370a28922136a32

http://pastebin.com/CcGUBgDG

EDIT: 


https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/exclusive-full-interview-transcript-alleged-dao-attacker/

Holy shite,  that's a thing

~CfA~

how to fuck eth and highlight them how much they are fucked

Priceless  :D This hacker has skill and style..hats off too you!

Give the attacker his coins mETH heads !

He got them fair & square.

EDIT:
And as a disclaimer i have no knowledge of any of this stuff.
I have no idea who the attacker is.
I had no idea it even happened until i read about it here.

So.. i have had nothing what so ever to do with it all.

does that mean methamphetamine Ethereum people ?????

they are hacked?
don't you think its just them and that DAO will be back for good and its going to be more than its ico price when we buy back?

Game Set Match ... Mr Attacker

I just read shocker :


The DAO is Dead, Devs Say.

http://www.coindesk.com/the-dao-is-closing-down/

Tual (founder) said:

He is right!

Write stupid code win stupid prices

I have still not invested on ethereum because I am still to busy with other altcoins my gut feeling there is something in this project that could go wrong and maybe I'm right looks like there are a lot of cleaning up to do  

This is going to be entertaining  ;D

@Original Poster
are you the creator of this letter and the hackzor?

The hacker / attacker played within the rules.. he earned his coins.

PAY HIM !

PS:
The mETH head remark is a jab at ETH Supporters.
As in they are as about as smart as METH heads. (yea the drug)
And it's a jab at the leader of ETH.. Mr. Butterin. (he's so skinny etc with bad acne he looks like a meth head)

 :D :D :D :D
I wish I was that smart!

why you bring this to personal level? that's really low attitude.
i sure you have some flaws too like every people have.

Can someone explain it simply? As i understand he just claimed the eth that dao holders were allowed to transfer for... why is this a big deal?

Hoax!

I'll write a letter and give it a sig hash too. Makes idiots believe it's real! :D

you have technical knowledge 2 know what going on here sir?

Go through this discussion section and read. It has been explained and chewed and digested multiple times in multiple posts.

ohh shit. So what happens now to everyone who invested in the dao? They all lose some money obviously because of the hack but will they still be able to get some money back after this?
It's kinda sad. This project blew up quicker then any scam ico coin I ever seen and with the amount that was raised I was sure this could never end up like those other shit ico scamcoins.

Bullshit!

If you fool an ATM you are hacking or stealing money because you are taking property away which is not yours.

This situation is completely different as it wasn't a bank or something like this, it isn't even related to money or property.
It was a piece of code and you can do what the code says thats the rule!

A bank never uses "rules" like this. Their rules are pretty strick you give us your money and you can take it back.
Here the rule was, you can do what the code says. And the code said you can get all the tokens which are here.

This guy is a joke not a lawyer.

I agree. Hacker only did what he was allowed to do. And with a bank you have a leader ( a person) who can make charges, but here this is leaderless. Let the dao code walk into court and plead its case.
LOL.

Really hard game ^^

^ Exactly


Stealing money from the bank:
AGAINST the "bank rules"

Splitting all the DAOs into child DAOs:
ACCORDING to the "code rules"


He did nothing wrong. He simply used the code better than others.

Congrats Attacker.
I wish I was this smart :)

So if he is allowed to split and get the coins, are they then not allowed to fork?

Just a question not taking sides as I dont give a shit about what happens to the DAO or ETH.

I cant wait to see how this all unfolds

Indeed! Hats off!
Seems like he's just using a feature they didn't think through. And this clearly shows people are just throwing millions of dollars into a "smart contract" they don't understand! Calling it "theft" while he's simply following the smart contract (enforced by the blockchain) doesn't make it theft.
I like seeing how he does this, and am curious how it will develop. A lawsuit about this would one way or another give some real world attention and give (or take) legitimacy to (or from) smart contracts.

Wow.  I'm speechless.  But I since the attacker was doing this for the hack's sake and to prove a point, I wish he would return the money to those poor investors.

He is my hero.

What makes you say that? He's clearly in it for the money! Why only make a point if you can make a point and take 50 million dollars at the same time?

But that wouldn't teach anyone anything. Nature wouldn't anneal. Potential knowledge would be destroyed. You know if you let your child feel the warm burner on the top of the stove, he still didn't learn to not burn his fingers on the hot burner.

I empathize with failure. But it is part of life.

This isn't charity. I mean no one is starving.

If ETH founder vitalik something freezes his rightfully obtained eth, it constitutes of theft by vitalik and he should be imprisoned (and or impaled) for being an ETHER THIEF.

Ether is FUCKED.
Ether holders are FUCKED.
Ether shills are FUCKED.
Ether scammers are FUCKED.
Ether tokens are FUCKED.
Ether founder is FUCKED.
Ether devs are FUCKED.
Ether enabling exchanges are FUCKED.
Everyone ever involved with ETHER SHIT SCAM TOKEN IS FUCKED.

I hope not. Most of those investors have tiny brains and/or were the shills/scammers promoting this pre-mined, ipo scam coin. They deserve to be hurt by this RIGHTHEOUS LEGAL HACKER.

I had a huge pleasure while reading the OP's psot. The "hacker" made use of a code that was not safe, so he didn't do anything against the rules. They can not do a rollback since the "hacker" then is able to accuse the ethereum/DAO team of scamming him for 50 million $.

Everyone that has ethereum/DAO, I am sorry for your losses!

BTW, why does everyone label him as a hacker? He didn't do anything against the DAO rules.

By bringing this to court and regardless of the court's decision, it will establish a precedent that law is superior to code.

The only way code wins, is if it is truly decentralized and can't be vacated by law.

When you have no valid argument one results to personal attacks. Very very pathetic and immature. But we don't expect anything more from you.

I congratulate the person who managed to claim 3,5 million ethers FAIR AND SQUARE!! Its the DAO fault who were created so sloppy..

Its his money now, I want to send my congratulations for both bringing DAO and ETH down and hopefully cashing out most of the 45 million dollar it was worth at the time of transfer. Its bad for the price but thats not his problem. Others are free to sell too.

I can see he is busy cashing out to USD on BTC-E as we speak, that is good :) I would do the same!

Mr 1 post NOOBY account..

YOU are the one who needs to STFU.. HERO accounts here are speaking !

Maybe if you shut your mouth and opened your ears you would learn something NOOB.

LOL
noobs these days are pretty damn mouthy.. someone needs a spanking and their mouth washed out with soap.

Some snotty little shit thinks he can impune my glorious divine legendary Crypto-Cred ?
..i think not  :D

kudos to the hacker!

If they go in court it will be really funny.

buying a ton of popcorn.....

there were no hacks https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1516067.0;topicseen

What happens if the hacker return the 3.5 million Ethereum to the DAO? So we do not have to hard/soft fork?

He can't, as it's somehow on a 27 day hold.
Stop calling him hacker, he didn't hack anything, he used the possibilities provided by the "smart" contract.

Absolutely Savage!

https://s31.postimg.org/w6mlhjk5n/Untitled.jpg

Ethereum is doomed!

 Confirmed that he was giving out real BTC - https://blockchain.info/address/1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE  so if this is merely a  troll, than a troll with a lot of money and ready to use it !

http://themerkle.com/person-behind-the-dao-attack-threatens-with-legal-action-against-forking-plans/

Its amazing how insecure and amateur of a project Ethereum is! They have already set the precedent that HF with a very low threshold is fine, have recently reconfirmed this and now it is being used against them.

Absolutely brutal.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClPU2VLXIAg4bJZ.jpg:large

Amateur hour over there!

MAybe he rather give it to some that need them not to the ones that love to trash it around.

When I read the message, I envision this:

https://i.imgur.com/lb84ebc.jpg

If he was smart he would get with the major exchanges trading ETH and offer them 1 million USD equivalent each to reject the fork.  The exchanges will decide everything, not the miners, exchanges are the only place to make money with ETH.  Miners go to the exchanges to move profits.  The miners won't move to the new fork if the exchanges are still on the old fork.

The fork will fail anyways.  Who in their right mind would move to the new fork?  Would you?  Anyone with any common sense would stand by to see which fork wins before moving their money over, which means no one would move to the new fork.

Vitalik is taking a huge risk here because if he does this then not only does he have to put up a legal defense to keep the funds he stole, but he will also be personally liable in a court of law - he already withdrew 25% of his ETH a while back, he is now risking his personal fortune when he will be sued by the "hacker".  The third consequence is that ETH is no longer viable for the functions it was designed for.  It becomes a reversible-contract system.  It may still go up at some point, but it will be by speculation and not by viability.  People should be outraged by what they are trying to do here.  That alone should be enough for you to dump this piece of crap ETH.  

No one in their right mind should be holding ETH through this.  All the major technical supports have been broken and there is no telling how far the price will fall.  I couldn't believe I was able to sell my ETH so high yesterday.  These markets are filled with children with dollar signs in their eyes.  Pure speculation.  

How can you join the chat?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClPaX-dVEAEb9gU.jpg

True Cipherpunk style, code and action speaks louder than words..... And a big fuck you to Craig Wright and your attempts to grift!

So is IBM still all in on ethereum?

Will they really be able to save on cost in the future with ethereum without worrying about the tokens at all?

Sweet.  I love to watch things burn in hell.

I'm kind of surprised eth hasn't dropped more than it has.

No, No, No! He is a professional!

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xs2av7T1A_c/U7VWviwCxII/AAAAAAAAEyU/2zafWvE_LU0/s800/carictoon-breaking-bad-gus-fring.png

They never were interested in buying any of those shitcoins. Why would they, when they could fork their own and not have to buy into the premine?


Remember Paycoin? The sharp drop already occurred. Now expect a slow and steady capitulation. Vitalik is becoming the next Garzik!

Don't trust anyone, there's no way of knowing if this guy is the same one who authored the OP letter.  For all we know the real DAO Attacker is keeping quiet, keeping his true plans to himself.

Also true troll style. For every bitcoin cultist not burstin' with schadenfreude, I'll give you one who's just itching to capitalize on this. I'll even start: You.
*not defending The[lol]DAO, which is arguably the most ether-frollicky thing ever, just pointing out that posting signed messages that fail to verify does not a cypherpunk make.

They were never "all in"
They checked it out privately then decided to build their own block-chain system.

and i am sure this will squash the rumors of BANKS etc using ETH in the future LOL

Why sending to 1BitcoinEater? That is $747 gone forever, as nobody will ever have the private key to that address.

It was a gift to the whole Bitcoin community and to verify that real bitcoins were being handed out.
Charity Exists, and this is the most effective way to efficiently donate to every bitcoin user.

Not defending DAO (see my previous post in this thread), but ELI5 how a miscoded DAO reflects on the future of ETH? Sure, guilt by association (Chernobyl negatively impacting nuclear power, GOX implosion on BTC, "o look! you can do it wrong & bad shit can happen"), but is there something more?
Mind you, I'm not even defending ETH, just want to figure out the connection.

You migh've missed this

As far I understand:
- it is called "experiment";
- it is another crypto project where every newbie manual repeats:"high risk investment";
- it is unregulated unprotected digital universe disconnected from real world financial and legal systems;
- it is all involved investors intention to make profit by smart actions at right time;
- "The Attaker" made best smart move and suddenly others want do change rules to reverse his result;
- they would never consider anything wrong if investment would multiply in their favour.

Therefore calling it a theft is like... Bitcoin Pizza buyer asking for refund because he now feel like robbed of millions of $

 

^^
Devil's advocate here:
>it is called "experiment"
So is Bitcoin

>it is another crypto project where every newbie manual repeats:"high risk investment"
This shit don't fly IRL courts.

>it is unregulated unprotected digital universe disconnected from real world financial and legal systems
Oft-disproved argument; see: BTC

>it is all involved investors intention to make profit by smart actions at right time; "The Attaker" made best smart move and suddenly others want do change rules to reverse his result
Theft and murder may also be "smart actions at the right time," which is not to say "approved by the courts."

>they would never consider anything wrong if investment would multiply in their favour.
True, though irrelevant.

Sorry but you make no sense to me - comparing to BTC is irrelevant - both projects have pretty same properties in this topic.
You assumed this is case of theft and discussion is about questioning that call.
And you made my description of DAO investors intentions equal to theft and murder? Who is devil then?

^^^
>comparing to BTC is irrelevant
How come?

>You assumed this is case of theft
What gave you that idea? Please quote, I'd like to correct my mistake.

>description of DAO investors intentions equal to theft and murder?
No. I used an analogy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy).

>Who is devil then?
English is clearly not your native tongue. Not mine either, so I'll help you out here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate).

I read the whole thread and didn't see the most important part:
Has anyone actually verified the message was signed by the "hostile" address, not a fake hash?

The DAO "attacker" wouldn't label himself an attacker.

Until he signs something with the "attacker's" key, I assume 'daoattacker' is some Bitcoin Maximalist or ETH short (who piled on short on the deadcat bounce) who is seizing the opportunity to drive ETH down.

Right, so has anyone bothered to verify it is a fake hash?

agreed. It doesn't add up. Most likely some Spoetniktard.

Your "analogy" between DAO investors and murder (and not the attacker) makes no sense, this is why I'm asking you who devil is - or simply: wth are you talking about.
Regardless of mine (and yours) English - your name, status and tone seams flame seeking troll wannabe to me and therefore I'm done feeding you.

Yeah just that you cannot legally give away stolen funds...so the miners would make themselves legally vulnerable.

I can´t believe the logic some people are using:

1. a flaw in the code of something has been found and used to steal funds. This happens all the time. It is the definition of a hack. There is a security gap, a flaw, in some code, and the hacker uses it.
2. some people, just because they hate ETH, claim that this hole in the code is working as designed, and therefore the hack is legal.

That attitude is mental. With the same logic, the BTC malleability hack for example, would have been perfectly fine just like any other (ab?)use of a security flaw in a data processing device worldwide would be.

 ::)

Advice: stop being envious, grab some cheap ETH now.  ;D

In any civilised country, there is a legal and civil framework that would never allow such a stupid idea survive in a court of law, common sense tells us that and so does this guy:

http://www.coindesk.com/sue-dao-hacker/

Others have suggested that the hacker can't be liable as they only did what the contract allowed. It's an interesting argument but, simply stated, code vulnerability doesn't equal consent.

As a defense, it’s pretty weak tea. Theft is theft, off chain or on.

Btw has anyone now verified this guys signature or not?  ;)

The "attacker" has a double quote. So it is not relevant. We need to verify the signature first. If that is false, there is no point to talk.

That is the end?

Agreed, could just be a troll with ~deep pockets like MP.

From interview with alleged DAO "attacker":

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/exclusive-full-interview-transcript-alleged-dao-attacker/

Vulnerable to what, a lawsuit? That's about as fanciful as the idea the daoattacker will sue the Ethereum Foundation really. It would also bring in to question the whole legality and regulation (or lack thereof) of TheDAO.

This doesn't mean I think they'll accept it of course.

That's NOT the attacker.

If mining is decentralized, I think it is impossible to enforce a court decision on the miners because new miners can pop up any where. You'd need some totalitarian total world control over the Internet and block the protocol.

Doesn't seem plausible near-term in current state of the world.

More likely any court decision would be enforced on the exchanges. New exchanges could pop up, but they can also be regulated.

Perhaps any class action suit if any might attempt to name any of those prominant insiders who have profited by promoting and selling ETH such as Vitalik, Tual, etc.. I am not sure if a lawyer would advise that or not, and whether it could be successful. I hope they've retained counsel.

How do you know?

Well, he would lose in court and I personally never received a "cease and desist letter."  If it forks, it's the community that's forking it....he'd have to send everybody a "cease and desist."  And, the intent of the contract is what will take precedence in a court and it was obviously not intended for the exploiter to steal all our funds. Maybe he'd get one count of wire fraud per investor frauded....He should take the profits from his ETH short and run before a hot curling iron introduces his butt hairs to a perm, IMHO!

If you were the boss of a large mining pool, would you accept money from that smart contract the attacker wants to set up?

You would be exposing yourself to criminal charges because you accept stolen funds, and on top, you accept stolen funds in return for mining transactions that transport further stolen funds.

For small miners, not a problem. Owners of large pools...beware of extradition.  ;D

I think I'd be more worried about PR than about extradition (which won't happen) and criminal charges (that won't be filed).

How would he lose? He did avid by the rules of the DAO smart contract, he did not modify anything as far as I know, so being strict the definition of decentralized smart contract, he did not do anything illegal... very tricky scenario.

The argument is there is no one the court could pinpoint to enforce such a ruling on. The miners, exchanges, users, and devs would all play a role in the community outcome, yet no one can be identified as responsible for that outcome.

Whereas, if the developers and foundation push for a fork and politik for a 51% attack on the protocol, then the attacker potentially accuse them of being in control of the enterprise and sue them. So that is why I say it is very risky for them to fork. OTOH, if they don't fork, they might be vulnerable to a class action suit from the n00bs who had their ETH taken from them by the "smart" (too smart = dumb) contract. This is why I made a thread  to ask (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517223.0) if the developers who have promoted this so carelessly without conspicuous warnings, could be in deep legal trouble now? They appear to me perhaps the easiest to target with a lawsuit, but IANAL so I am pondering what is their risk?

But note the "attacker" may have committed an illegal action or at least violated contract law, so in that case is unlikely to reveal identity and sue. Thus I was thinking the safest is to fork, but that has the risk of the n00bs potentially accusing them of being in control of the coin and class action sue them for the exchange rate losses. So it seems those who created and promoted ETH and DAO (without sufficient warnings of risks) may have a legal quagmire, but IANAL so I am just hoping they have retained adequate counsel.

You are correct...
"The Attacker" violated contract law as the courts interpret it...
And would be convicted of a hack because "code vulnerability doesn't equal consent".

As this lawyer explains:

http://www.coindesk.com/sue-dao-hacker/

The letter itself is a rehash of a Bloomberg View article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-17/blockchain-company-s-smart-contracts-were-dumb

If "The Attacker" was actually a Pro...
He would negotiate/compromise ETH miners by paying fees to launder the loot.

Just like Bitcoin miners launder illicit BTC for large fees on a regular basis:

http://hackingdistributed.com/2016/04/29/bitcoins-137k-jackpot/

This person is obviously not the attacker because he is much too dumb.

The real attacker knows he will never see his funds, rightfully his or not. There is too much at stake to give someone millions when it can so easily be taken away.

The real attacker also knows he must remain in hiding. He probably doesn't need to fear from vigilante justice because even Mark Karpelès walked among the Goxxed victims without fear. What the real attacker must fear is that he'll get thrown in jail for a long time. He certainly wouldn't seek remedy in the US. He will be arrested on something and then stand trial. He will be granted his request for a trial by jury. The defense will be well organized and air tight.

The prosecution will be fast and loose and have no basis in fact or reason. But they will say "computer hacker", throw out some mumbo-jumbo about technology, say the dollar value of the "crime", and the jury will unanimously convict the attacker of probably a dozen financial crimes, if he is lucky. The jury will be confused by the mumbo-jumbo, frightful that their facebook accounts will be hacked by someone like this, mad at and suspicious of smart people in general, and vaguely terrified that someone will run another plane into a building. In their subconscious response to the Pavlovian stimuli, the jury will do the cautious thing and put the bad man in jail.

So, I say it again, in case anyone missed the main point: the attacker will never be known and he will never see his funds.

*your
If, upon reading my post, you concluded that my intent is to draw on similarities between DAO investors and the act of murder, your lacking is deeper than poor grasp of the English language. I'll dig up the post in question... ah, hereitis!


I'll tract you through this, Friend!
The analogy is being drawn between "smart actions," in this case theft and murder, and the "smart actions" of "The Attaker [sic]."
This analogy draws on a particular similarity between said sets of "smart actions."
Quiz time:
Can you guess, based on the context, the similarity I am alluding to? No? Despair not, Friendo, follow me!

The similarity lies in the fact that committing murder may serve one's enlightened self-interest at certain junctures in life. From this, one should not infer that that said "smart actions" are good, right, or would not earn you a delightful, all-expense-paid holiday at Club Fed.
Today's lesson is free, because educating the great unwashed is in my enlightened self-interest.
Because society.

>status and tone seams flame seeking troll wannabe
I tried to help you, Friend: "so I'll help you out here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_advocate)." Click on the fucking link.
If there are things you do not understand but would like to, don't hesitate to ask :)

STFU Nooby mouthy brat disabled douche.

Bet the DA0 etc just 'settles' with this guy for 10% of his hoard. They really can't afford to have this tied up i court for the bad press.
Would be worth a 10% hit on the DA0 rather then the other alternatives imho.

This won't happen of course....but would have been a nice/quick/dirty fix in the first 24hrs with everyone involved in the code
that got hacked going...ok oops /solved lost some ether and some credibility will learn from this and move on

but with the kinda money the guy who hacked the DA0 from what I read on his methods ...he may lose the ether...he
won't go to jail for anything imho....it was just a crummy launch to this DA0 fund imho

In the stock market, if you spread bad rumours and short the stock is a kind of inside trading and is a criminal offence.

Maybe the attacker is an ex-member of this forum?


http://trilema.com/2016/to-the-dao-and-the-ethereum-community-fuck-you/