Bitcoin Forum

n light of a certain evidence suggesting irregularities in a number of BetSoft's progressive slots, we have decided to issue a warning to all our members not to engage in real money play on any of the following games:

1. Good Girl Bad Girl
2. At the Copa
3. Greedy Goblins
4. Mr. Vegas
5. Slot Angels
6. The Glam Life
7. Tycoons
8. The Treasure Room

These are the games we consider problematic, but there might be more. Namely, the issue concerns certain progressive jackpots that seem to be locked - in other words, they can't be won due to a software error which can either be intentional or the result of a sloppy programming on the part of BetSoft. They deny any problems and continue to claim the games are just fine and working as intended. No official statement has been released by BetSoft yet, despite the fact the company was faced with some strong evidence suggesting the games to be broken.

Thanks to one insightful player, we have been aware of potential abnormalities in the games since the fall of 2015, but until now, the evidence was insufficient for us to officially issue a warning or taint the reputation of BetSoft and the casinos supporting its software - the whole thing seemed too far out, although suspicious enough to warranty a serious inquiry into the problem.

What served as a catalyst for us and others to advise against BetSoft was a shameful event that happened not a few days ago - a player going by the name Jason was denied a jackpot he won fair and square on the slot The Glam Life at Betcoin.ag casino. This, coupled with the locked jackpots and a few questionable events in the company's past, lead us to advise against playing BetSoft slots.

What are the problems?


The whole thing began back in September 2015, when a Casino Listings forum member BlackjackAA noticed that some of the BetSoft's progressive jackpots at Bovada casino seem to be unwinnable. BetSoft's progressives are not linked to a network with other different slots, neither are the same slots linked to a network between the casinos that feature them. Instead, the games have a standalone jackpots assigned to each coin value or denomination, with the amounts and odds differing between the casinos.

What this player noticed was the fact that some denominations have jackpots that hit regularly, while others are never won, regardless of the number of times the slot was played end even despite it. CasinoListings launched an investigation spanning 9 months, using jackpot tracking software to monitor the jackpots at Bovada and Slots.iv casinos - which are won and how many times, how much they hit for and other facts. These casinos were chosen because they feature the full portfolio of BetSoft titles. In the end they concluded the games are broken.

Some jackpots on specific coin sizes and certain games are never won at Bovada, while they routinely hit at Slots.iv, even though the amount of wagering is much higher at Bovada.

For example- the 5¢,10¢ and 25 ¢ denominations jackpots on Good Girl Bad Girl regularly hit at Slots.iv, but have never been won at Bovada since the tracking started 9 months ago. The odds of hitting the 5¢ jackpot on this slot are calculated to be 1:20,000 - yet it was played at Bovada nearly six million times without hitting whatsoever.

Additionally, the data indicates that in February, multiple slot machines at Bovada exhibited strange behavior that couldn't be accidental, since there was several slots behaving strangely all at the same time. The games that were otherwise regularly won all went without any wins for a period of about three weeks, to suddenly revert back to their previous win frequency at almost the same time.

Finally, on June 14th, a player going by the name Jason won a progressive jackpot on The Glam Life slot 50¢ denomination at Betcoin.ag casino. He placed max bet and managed to land five yacht symbols on a win line during the free spins, which should have gotten him a million coins prize - the paytable clearly stated that 5 yacht symbols on max bet wins the jackpot. However, BetSoft denied to cash out his winnings claiming he didn't qualify for the jackpot because he wasn't betting max on $1 denomination. This was, to say the least, a ridiculous statement given the fact that BetSoft games have separate jackpots for each denomination.

When Jason pointed out this fact to BetSoft's customer service rep, they changed the story claiming the jackpot can't be won during the free spins feature. This was again not true, because the paytable had no rules to indicate any such thing.

On June 26th, BetSoft silently altered the Glam Life paytable to now include this rule: ''Jackpots cannot be won during any other bonus feature''. Not only did they unlawfully altered the paytable to justify their actions, but the sentence is entirely confusing as well - what other bonus features, and which feature does qualify for the jackpot?

BETSOFT CAUGHT RIGGING KENO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhalYzlNCh8

N w long has this been going on for ? I see good girl bad girl often, like pretty much everywhere and now I know why. I saw some stats someone posted about it and it shocked me. Imfprgot who posted it else I would leave a link. Thank you for warning us and doing your research, most people just moan without evedince or anything which is bad and doesn't help.

How about the game:  All American Progressive video poker by Betsoft?  Been playing this game awhile know without hitting the royal flush for the jackpot.  Anybody played this game and hit the jackpot?

Tons of scam accusations have been made against betsoft and betsoft has never issued a reply. See these threads for more information:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1530271.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517648.0
https://www.casinolistings.com/news/2016/06/warning-avoid-all-betsoft-slots-and-casino-games
http://vegasclick.com/online/betsoft-jackpot-issue

It's best to stay far away from betsoft until they get these issues resolved.

Indeed. There are a lot of issues with Betsoft software currently so it is not recommended that you participate in gambling in any shape or form in any of their slot machine games, because they are known to cheat their players out of their winnings when they deem necessary.

I personally prefer the HTML games that aren't sponsored by a third party.

I have loosely followed the thread quoted above regarding the Betsoft/Betcoin issue but was that one really the fault of Betsoft, i thought that one was Betcoins fault for not adding the correct information to the "payouts" page.

Don't take this the wrong way because i am in no way trying to stand up for Betsoft, their actions are shady at best.

This shouldn't come as a huge shock to anyone this is why there are only a few casinos trusted by early Bitcoiners as they wrote the book on provably fair. Betsoft,  bitstarz and all the fancy graphics games players see are not provably fair at all. This bonus is only one part of the problem.

You are dealing with corporations that only stepped into bitcoin betting because fiat online casinos are desperate for users there are hundreds of thousands of sites it's been flooded just like bitcoin betting sites are becoming.

The difference is you can choose to play on non fancy graphics like BetterBets.io ,primedice, Betking,  or any moneypot.com site and deal with less pretty but fair. Or play on pretty but rigged sites where you have only the company saying 'sure we are fair'.

I'm inclined to take the fair option personally and sacrifice visuals.

****For the record have you ever noticed how the top ranked casino reviews always have the same casinos and never any of the older bitcoin sites like I mentioned above? It's because they are all paid or faked by the companies that own them. They use it as an SEO tactic for back links.

You could always try the bitcoin.com new games casino, all games are provably fair on their site, no account registration at all needed and instant deposits!
https://games.bitcoin.com

I agree, for the most part, but I would definitely include crypto-games.net when it comes to fairness!
It may not be one of the oldest but it's been running for 2 years, and not a one scam accusation(credible) has ever been logged against them.
Their TOS as well as all possible info needed by a player are all clearly written, FAIR, and all concerns are addressed immediately.

Anyway, for me, the first indicator of how reputable a site is, is how they handle and respond to issues/concerns/allegations/etc.
*Any sort of delay tactics, deflections, or outright lies then they're out. No ifs and buts.

Would you stop spamming with this crap. I know it's bitcoin related and i know it's gambling but it has just about nothing to do with this thread.
Start your own threads rather than hijacking another users.

wow so judging from the story, the person who hit the 5 yacht jackpot did not receive the winnings due to being free spins, that is really bad though to deny the winnings of a player.

betsoft got a terrible reputation, there were so many gambler scam by it, the worst case is the case where betsoft refuse to paid the person that hit 5 yacht, the winning is more than 1 million dollars, and because of that case betcoin.ag also got negative reputation and up until now betsoft keep on avoiding the responsibility

thank for warning the community, these scams should be avoided completely and barred from gambling. They prey on the vulnerable and people with gambling disorders. Shame on them for having such a rigged game. I think everyone should not play until it is fixed.

This thread is very helpful i heard that before that BETSOFT games not actually provably fair.. someone already hit a jackpot and win a large amount but they are not give the winning amount because they are change the terms or he did not notice the rule.
But now i can say that the game from betsoft is almost all nor provably fair and better to stay away..

I do not prefer betsoft but your story is full of bullshit. You cannot hit jackpot during free spins. Im playing Megafortune (netent) for 2 years now and never hit a jackpot. Does that mean its rigged? Where the fuck would they be if they give jackpot to every donk who spends $10 in a casino

Betcoin.ag extort 500 Bitcoins Jackpot winner for "settlement" (https://game-protect.com/betcoin-ag-extort-jackpot-settlement/)

I have heard of them scamming players from their winnings since last summer.
I am surprised that their operation hasn't been shut down yet. >:(

Shut down where and by whom?

Did you read his original comment? He is surprised that betsoft hasn't shut down, which means that betsoft hasn't been shut down yet.


There's a lot of evidence behind this, check this out: http://vegasclick.com/online/betsoft-jackpot-issue

Also, they failed to pay out a progressive jackpot using the excuse that the winning spin occurred during a bonus round.

While I have seen a lot of sites offer Betsoft based games, but are they actually provably fair these days or do they just expect us to trust them? Haven't played in a while but back in 2014 they did not have provably fair. Obviously never trusted them since.

None of the slot machines offered by Betsoft that i know of are provably fair, they are run on RTP (return to player) , a system that works but it must be audited often to check the return percentage is set correctly and not being tempered with.

More and more casinos are running betsoft games because they are easily rigged. Google betsoft rigged and you will see betsoft has a history of this going back many many years.

Many people seem to confuse provably fair with RTP. A common thing but also an unfortunate one. Luckily the forum helps clear out most or the confusion.

Yes, I read his post and ask him where and by whom Betsoft should have been shut down? If you even do not know who should shut them down, how could you surprised that Betsoft is not shut down?

just avoid casinos that are using betsoft software-as simple as that
their reputation has been tarnished and they didn't even bother to reply to all the accusations
and it is not just this forum,google betsoft scam and you will see
https://www.casinolistings.com/news/2016/06/warning-avoid-all-betsoft-slots-and-casino-games
http://www.askgamblers.com/forum/topic/6138-warning-betsoft-games-being-pulled-in-the-wake-of-unpaid-jackpot/

there are dozens of reputable casinos around,vote with your coins and ignore betsoft

Let me add this link, if you do not mind: https://game-protect.com/betsoft-scam/

Here it is explained with proof why Jasonort crystal clear won the Betsoft jackpot!

If thats the case, then why do the casino owners still host a lot of their games on betsoft ? As a gambler, I would never opt to play in any of those casinos, and am sure a lot of others feel the same way. So wouldn't hosting games with betsoft anyway be a killer for the casinos ?

I think everybody that has followed the glam life story knows that Jasonort won the jackpot, the main question was who owed him the money, Betcoin.ag because it was their site he was playing on and it was them that stuffed up the pay table or BetSoft because it is their progressive jackpot and they should make sure all companies participating advertise the correct winning method.

Whoever was legally responsible i don't know but the player should have received much more than the "settlement" he got.

After this yes, i would not host Betsoft games anymore.

This is exactly why online gaming needs to be regulated.
If online sites were forced to have their software audited to be provably fair, at least something could be done to protect the players.
As of now you are basically giving money to a business, hoping they aren't cheating you, and hoping they pay you when you win.

That doesn't even begin to get into the subject of the amount of tax that would be generated and the good things that could be done with this money.
(A whole separate reason to regulate online gaming.)

It is not an easy space to regulate, some of these casinos probably operate from countries that half of us have never heard of.

It also brings in questions like how often would you recommend that the sites be regulated and by whom should they be regulated, will you even trust the regulators?

Even if you are gambling on the slots at a casino how do you know they are set to the correct payout percentage?

is there a list of websites that use betsoft software? Honestly, I would never touch online casino games anyway. Why do it? I rather contain my impulse and eat a bucket of ice cream then give my money away for free.

This is a list of most, if not all the websites that use betsoft, both fiat and bitcoins. http://www.nodeposit.org/software/Betsoft&page=1

Most slot games use betsoft, so if you are interested in playing a slot game, double check it first to make sure that they are not using betsoft.

You can not regulate online gaming worldwide!

And for the price of 30% tax? Forget it! We offer online gaming consumer protection either cost free or after donations.

regulating onine gambling cannot be done,when a country starts to regulate
all the casinos suddenly change jurisdiction and rightfully so
all "regulation" is just additional payments to the goverment and casinos are going to compensate that by lowering odds
or any other way that affects us gamblers directly
also you think that if that casino was regulated it would pay jackpot,don't think so

So like a dummy, I tried playing a betsoft BJ type of card game. I betted 100 mbtc and this is the rigged crap im talking about.

https://s29.postimg.org/xe4maurnr/riggeddd.png

^^ This is hardly proof that particular game is rigged, the screen shot simply shows that you were most likely just unlucky with that hand, get over it.

Betsoft has a history of rigging their games. Go research...I know this screen shot doesn't prove much. But like I said. I was stupid enough to play one and on a large bet. This is what I was dealt

In fact here is a video that bust betsoft for rigging their games https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhalYzlNCh8

So you know betsofts has rigged games in the past yet you still play it. BTW, that pirate game contains no 10 value cards which hurts the player as there are less cards for the dealer to bust. Come talk to me after you've seen dealer hit 4 blackjack in a row several times. Just last month I bet 100x3 hands and gives me splits with doubles and doubles on the other two hands and I had 4 20s so 800mbtc at stake and not surprisingly he hits 21. I try not to play betsoft blackjack if I can help it. Sometimes I get a small run but overall it feels super rigged. The countless times he hits 21/20 and blackjacks seems above average. They dont have much options for blackjack at bitcasino so I often end up playing it. The only online casino I've played at that feels super random for BJ is at Bovada/Ignition. I've gone on some sick runs whereas betsoft blackjack if you don't get out after winning some it for sure will take it back. It never lets you get on a true heater.

To play at bitcasino is indeed a good idea! Warning BitCasino scam (https://game-protect.com/bitcasino scam/)

WOW!!!!

Your warning means jack shit. I've played on bitcasino for over two years and never had a single issue with them. You get run off every other gambling forum you try to promote your "game protect" bullshit on and it goes without saying your trust here is shot lol.

I have good experience with at the copa, greedy goblin and single hand bj of Betsoft, now I dare not play any more, I stop playing my betsoft game, although I have earned a few bitcooins on these games. BTW, boomanji is a great lucky slot too.  ;D  I played it and completed some bonus rollover

Oh yes, my warning that sportsbet and bitcasino management embezzled player funds in the Muchos Poker case is of course jack shit, as well as the sun is moon and war is peace!


While you have no withdrawal issue, 90% of the player funds could be already embezzled! See Online Gaming Embezzlement - General info (https://game-protect.com/online-gaming-embezzlement/). Too good to be true promotions create fake money which is not covered by real money!


Game Protect receives over 80% of the traffic thru google and does not rely on to promote on brain wash forums. But we search for and find victims on forums, this is true.

Please explain the bullshit of an online gaming consumer protection service? You promoted the publicly proven betcoin.ag scam and still have your meaningless and dumb spelling style, which is a precondition to get accepted for their signature campaign.
 

I do not understand what you are saying here, but I have never cheaten anyone! Do you mean that the lies and nonsense posted in my feedback section is proof of my untrustworthy, like the sun is moon and war is peace?

Out of curiosity, how many people still playing slots using Betsoft scam gaming software?

I would not be surprised to hear that lots of people are still playing Betsoft slots because they are still active on most of the popular gambling sites. Until the sites using Betsoft games refuse to continuing hosting them people who don't know better will still play them.  

I know the history of Betsoft, just saying that your screenshot means nothing.
If you read a few of the posts in this thread and others you would have seen that i have followed this from the start.

Almost anyone who is new to gambling or bitcoin probably definitely tries the games out in their initial gambling experience. Most of the people aren't aware of the provably fair systems and blindly trust the casinos and their games.

The thing is that most of the advanced slots used by Betsoft will not work easily with any provably fair method, slots like them use RTP (return to player) which should normally bet set at about 96-98% i believe but i don't know who is supposed to audit this with online casinos.

Thanks for the link, interesting reading. The company that Betsoft is licensed by is not and should not be responsible for auditing them, that should be done by an independent body.
If nobody is regularly auditing them then why do reputable online casinos continue to host Betsoft slots knowing this, surely they ask for audit reports from their game providers or I would have thought so.

When in doubt just choose games.bitcoin.com where all the games are provably fair and no need to register an account.

But the licensor should be responsible to check if the Betsoft software is audited by an independent body, or not?

I do not know what the license requirements are in regards to a gaming software provider like Betsoft, but I know that the licensor has to proof the identity / addresses of the licensees. And if Betsoft has a rigged gaming software, you could sue the operator of Betsoft.


This would be a good question to the reputable casinos, why they use Betsoft. I know that many scammy and anonymous casinos use Betsoft scam gaming software, because Betsoft let them use their software anonymously.

The best thing you can do nowadays, with all the scams in the height of USD million, is to register your gaming or betting account with Game Protect, because then you will have at least a consumer protection service included.

In most cases you can sue the responsibles, but players are sluggish and not really wiling to put some money on the table to enforce their claim and instread simply continue to lose $1000s or $10,000s.

I don't understand why there are no legit online casinos that don't commit obvious fraud. It really goes to show the state of society today. They're already running a business where all they need to do is market and bring in customers to make money. It's guaranteed they will profit. But it's not enough. They must cheat and steal on top of it.

The betsoft games were obvious fraud. Don't ever play anything from betsoft. The isoftbet games are a little better, but those games have shit pay out and just drain you slowly over time. Still a guaranteed loss, just not as flagrant as betsoft.

It's not even limited to online casinos. Even brick and mortar casinos commit obvious fraud. If you want a real chance at winning money from a casino take a queue from the ocean's series of movies.