Bitcoin Forum

Hey,

I am logged into my account Coinbase to buy Bitcoins.

I get the following message:

Sorry! Buy & Sell not available in Germany

We are not able to Provide exchanging bitcoin in your region yet. Consider Contacting your local government. Learn More>

It seems to be also affected Luxembourg alongside Germany.
The rest of Europe (32) are not affected.

Since Localbitcoin is banned in Germany, seems probably because the German "local government" there which prohibit.

Does anyone have any info, is on what legal basis prohibited here?

They must comply with local law, I assume they're not doing that, so, no business there. :)

Very easy fix: VPN

Hopefully this is not the beginning of a more major attack on Bitcoin. I also wouldn't be surprised to see in the coming months, although, that they resolve the issue and are able to sell to their German customers again. Coinbase offers a great service and the German people deserve to be able to take part in the program.

Will this still work if OP is trying to use a German bank card?

VPN is not the solution for it. If its a ban from the government the website won't function but its indicated as buying and selling not available for Germany and Luxembourg.

Wait is Localbitcoins really banned in Germany? Is the German government going to ban the use of Bitcoin in  the country or are they waiting to legalize it or something? I thought it was pretty easy to set up a person-to-person exchange of coins against cash. I guess people in Germany still trade Bitcoins for cash among themselves right?

The site itself is not banned, you can still open it from Germany. However, localbitcoins itself decided not to serve customers in Germany anymore.



Yes, some do. There is also bitcoin.de and coinimal.com, both serving customers from Germany.

Localbitcoins is not banned in Germany but they decided not to serve german customers.
You can still meet with people and do your trades.Nothing illegal about that.
What Coinbase and Localbitcoins are missing for the german market is a license.No license no business, same as in the US.

Is Localbitcoin licensed in US? As what, a money transmitter? I didn't know that.

I can't tell you mate.
I'm not from the states.I'm german and just can tell you that localbitcoins stopped it's service in Germany since late 2014 due to regulatory reasons.
And I'm sure this is the same reason why Coinbase has no service in Germany.
Big "thanks" for that to our BaFin! >:(

Germany is putting up some laws against money laundry right these days.
Those include terms regarding buying & selling of crypto money.
I think coinbase does not want to have any legal trouble there and sort things out first if they can fulfill those restrictions.

Coinbase is not licensed in EU therefore they cannot provide services to EU.

Germany took action against unlicensed BTC exchangers and that's why Coinbase step back. Normally, they are not allowed to offer exchange services in all EU....but other countries didn't take action yet. The law already exists. :)

Its not just coinbase that they can use to buy bitcoin. They can also use exchange site itself. I think BTC2BID is working good this time.




If you are from Germany, VPN can still help indirectly as you as btc buyer can simply set where ever you are and then set up a meeting with a btc seller from localbitcoin.

Are you sure,but I searching some news about this and I can't find it? maybe best solution to check on another sites how they getting a same banned with coin base or nothing. but i learn a more knowledge about this, thanks before.

It has nothing to do with bitcoin.

It's usual for USA startups and established companies to enter in European markets and think they can disregard all local laws and do their business like they do in USA, well, they can't...

So this is going to happen in all EU countries? Germany is just the first to act?

just other solution for buying bitcoin
- buy payeer usd
- deposit usd at BTC-E
- buying bitcoin at BTC-E
- withdraw the bitcoin to your wallet

It will happen in countries that have legislation Coinbase is not complying with...

They may need to have European offices and servers and comply with European data laws, you know USA companies give all information to the government and intelligence agencies, financial information is very valuable, letting USA companies operate unchecked is opening the doors wide to spies.

Huh, didn't realize that. I guess we Amerifats don't know how good we got it -- Localbitcoin, can trade on any exchange...

Who is BTC-e? A ghost company. Where is their physical office, where is their financial license being incorporated in EU? :)

How can you entrust your money to an unlicensed company?

The European Commission plans new rules on anti-money laundering.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-2380_en.htm

and there is a part to virtual currencies:

Tackling terrorist financing risks linked to virtual currencies: to prevent misuse of virtual currencies for money laundering and terrorist financing purposes, the Commission proposes to bring virtual currency exchange platforms and custodian wallet providers under the scope of the Anti-Money Laundering Directive. These entities will have to apply customer due diligence controls when exchanging virtual for real currencies, ending the anonymity associated with such exchanges;

As of 01.01.2017 the EU directive must be transposed into national law.
Perhaps BaFin was so fast and turns it already now.

You might as well ask "how can you buy crack from an unlicensed distributor?" It's Germany, once all the legal BTC channels are cut off, shady shit like BTC-e is all you got left.

I don't think a VPN is going to help anyone. It's not as if you can fart on Coinbase without providing a smear sample. As soon as they know you're a German then I guess it's game over if all this is true.

If it does take some licencing then I assume they'll go for it. It can't be as onerous as the US.

sorry im from asia, iam confution with your "financial license" for buying bitcoin, i think you need only some minute, buying payeer deposit BTC-E then buying BTC, and withdraw your bitcoin, in my coutry, goverment can't touch my bitcoin, no tax etc.

Ah, got it. This thread is about Germany, see topic.

For I logged into my account coinbase I enter my e-mail account and confirm in the confirmation link, because according coinbase phaco login from another country, that's funny in the email looks like the following:

"A device or location never seen before is requesting access to your account" and the email is the country that makes such access, my country.

Every time is the same, i use the same IP ...


 maybe you should ask help the support.

It is not the beginning of a major attack on Bitcoin...it is an ongoing attack.  It doesn't matter what Germany does, Bitcoin is a global decentralized currency that no one country or person can prevent from happening.  I like news like this, it means they are scared  ;D

Wow, I did not realise that it was not allowed in these countries, Coinbase seem to be very strict in terms of abiding by the different laws, I guess to operate in this scene you have to somewhat.

I am not sure how feasible it would be to use a VPN as you would surely need to link you bank details as that's how Coinbase allows you to buy and sell and I would think it would show up that you are located in DE via your bank details

An excellent way to get your account frozen.  Would only do it if there were no other options, which there are.

Careful with that edge, Eugene.

what about bitstamp? will bitstamp be shut down in germany too? now news on their website.

They're good in Germany:

https://www.bitstamp.net/article/bitstamp-first-nationally-licensed-btc-exchange/

I'm not surprised that Germany is banning Bitcoin, or at least what seems to be businesses that are actively involved with Bitcoin. They're going and trying to exert whatever control over everyone they can now, and that includes banning whatever means of transferring value aside from their beloved Euro.

This has nothing to do with terrorism, or at least they know it will have next to no effect on terrorism and terrorist's ability to carry out attacks.

I checked the last issues on their support websites and seems that on May they had some bugs and they were fixing them, now they have removed it from the official websites https://www.coinbase.com/global?locale=en , if germany started to not accept coinbase on their country, I have a feeling that also other EU countries will 'ignore' coinbase, because of this bitcoin price crashed today?

Honestly many people are complaining about coinbase their service is worst and very restricted online wallet.. better to fin other wallet.. if your place is banned.. Honestly i experience of delay receiving in coinbase and i tried to experience that from my primedice account and send it to coinbase i experience in delay to receive it takes a week before i receive my bitcoin in my wallet..

That's a bit unfortunate but my understanding is that Coinbase has not been active in Germany from the outset, which is actually pretty strange as Germany is basically BTC friendly.

I trust my money to btc-e and sleep easy.  I don't need to visit a physical office and that they don't have a license does not bother me. The exchange functions,  it has for a long time and their service is good. Each to their own I guess.

Yes,  that's why I only keep a very small amount of my total cryptos on there.  When I want to hedge I can do it quickly.  I never lost with either of those 2 sites,  or used them much but what was with cryptsy,  did they have a license?

Coinbase requires proof of address, like any institution that needs to do kyc to comply with the law.
You need an address outside Germany, with proof, like a utility bill.
Using a vpn isn't gonna cut the mustard.

Thats very strange, i wonder why germany has taken a etance like that, ah well their loss..... :-[

Coinbase? Who needs coinbase? Why would anyone in Germany use an american exchange when they can a german one like bitcoin.de?
I doubt coinbase had many customers in Germany, or a single one in Luxembourg, a country which is smaller than L.A. county.

It also happened in my country, I come from Indonesia and Coinbase also does not provide buy and sell here. I think not because the German block the service from Coinbase, it's just that I have found no bitcoin buy services in your country. Thank you

Nobody is banning anything in Germany.

With bitcoin.de there's at least one completely regulated exchange in Germany where users can even connect their account to an official German bank, albeit a small one. Additionally, people have already pointed out that Bitstamp is licensed in 28 EU member states through Luxembourg, thereby making it entirely regulated in Germany as well.

This is just a Coinbase move who apparently didn't have a license to operate in Germany in the first place.

That's fantastic. As a German I have the choice between Bitcoin.de and Bitstamp. Otherwise no other alternatives?

I would not discuss the advantages and disadvantages of these two suppliers. But I would like to choose where I buy my Bitcoins and not let me dictate this from my government.

What's next?

Can I as a merchant accepting bitcoin? or the user must then identify?
Did my order and my bitcoin address in combination with my identity reported to the government, NSA, FBI, KGB and so on?

Coinbase also doesn't support Nepal buy and sell feature i think this is due to the complicated foreign currency law we have here. But there is no any written statement about bitcoin or crypto currency in our federal law. So it is quite confusing why they even don't allow us to exchange, i can understand they can't allow deposit and withdraw of fiat for countries with rules like here but not giving access to trade is completely bullshit.

However i really don't like how they keep banning accounts and asking lots of documents, so this all limitation they have isn't effecting me.  ;)

I think that Coinbase has banned itself because for sure had made nothing to comply with the law and the regulation of bitcoin there. It is normal because Coinbase don't care to work like it needed. They go only in that countries in which don't needed regulation or work to do to adapt.

for me nothing new here as coinbase never worked for me from the day one i get the same error so its not shocking as other then my country it is also not working in germany probably they did not get much of the business from germany or they are following the local law

I accidentily noticed this when using a vpn that is located in Germany, luckily it's not banned in Belgium.
But I guess German people still have other options besides Coinbase, Bitstamp for example.

And I do hope this doesn't mean it's going to be much more difficult to buy Bitcoins in other European countries in the near future.

This is maybe a little off topic but it looks like Coinbase is getting stricter with rules. Did you guys know that it is a violation of their ToS to sell the coins in your Coinbase account on LocalBitcoins?? I'd been doing that the past maybe 6 or 7 months and never knew it was illegal. A couple of days ago I received a warning email from them saying that I was in violation of their ToS, that it is illegal to sell BTC from my Coinbase wallet on Craigslist, eBay, LocalBitcoins etc  :o

probably there may be new rule set by government and some modification on law or finance . I hope they may allow this bitcoin as legal after several days /month .

When you sold on localbitcoins, did you send coins to the buyer directly from your Coinbase wallet?

Yes, it's like that from the beginning, also you cannot gamble with coins bought at Coinbase, if you do so, your account will be terminated.

You need to obfuscate your activity from Coinbase.

You can use Kraken, BTC-e and Finex as well.However without being regulated and out of jurisdiction you take all the risk yourself, using them, if they should run with your funds one day.
So you have much more exchanges you can choose from with different risk potentials.
And you can meet and trade from person to person at any time wherever you want in Germany without getting in trouble.
Things are not so bad as you think.
Berlin and Hannover also are cities with several Bitcoin startups and stores, companies accepting it.

Why did they do this? Rules from the governments or from the coinbase shareholders?

Coinbase give me rules what i can do with my bitcoins?
Than we can separate bitcoins in dark bitcoins, infected with porn, gambling, and in white bitcoins?

Good times for mixing services ;-)

Regulatory compliance of course.

No company wants to make it difficult for their costumers to be their costumers, also they would save a shitload of money if they didn't have to monitor users' activity.

You can't send Bitcoins to the buyer directly, it has to go through LocalBitcoins. You have to deposit the BTC into your LocalBitcoins wallet and when you sell, the amount is locked into escrow until you confirm the buyer has made payment. LocalBitcoins then takes a small fee from that amount before pushing it over to the buyer's account.



Yea and it's a good thing because it means Bitcoin is being taken seriously. This is the only way if we want to go mainstream someday.

I guess coinbase obeying the USA rules and consider it as part of their rules,it's normal if they're having office on USA and want to keep their business running,since USA really prohibit any form of online gambling,so does with coinbase,can't do anything and just can obey the rules

I Hope Coinbase Open To Buy/Sell Bitcoin In Around Of The World, So Everyone Can Buy/Sell Bitcoin Without Need To The Exchanger  ;)

What the hell?
I get that you are newbie,but you are so naive?
You dont think that something is wrong that Coinbase just got banned in 3 different countries? lol,i would stay out of it.

Coinbase was not banned. The issue is that ALL the exchangers including Coinbase MUST have a financial license in EU. Coinbase has licenses only in USA. Germany is not joking when it's about finances and that's why Coinbase removed this country from their list. :)

It seems that they banned the members of Germany because of the government of Germany, You government have banned that currency so for not involving you in any problem they have banned you people from there and informed you about that.

There is actually not an European Rule that you must have an license.

The European Commission plans this rules which must be setup in national laws till 2017

Tackling terrorist financing risks linked to virtual currencies: to prevent misuse of virtual currencies for money laundering and terrorist financing purposes, the Commission proposes to bring virtual currency exchange platforms and custodian wallet providers under the scope of the Anti-Money Laundering Directive. These entities will have to apply customer due diligence controls when exchanging virtual for real currencies, ending the anonymity associated with such exchanges;


The question is "Why does only Germany banns Coinbase and localbitcoins?"
What is with the other european countries?

The second question what will happened with the other bitcoin exchanges like Kraken, Circle and so on? Will they banned also in the next days?

I think the German government doesn't want to allow Coinbase to operate without a license in the country because they most probably would like to collect tax on the profits of the exchange. Germans in general are pretty strict when it comes to taxes and rules compared to other countries where the governments are more lenient towards taxing foreign businesses. However I do think that US companies will need to obtain licenses in order to operate in the European Union.

This is a completion for an existing law.Even now, you must have a financial license if you operate as e-currency exchanger. You are transmitting money(you work with fiat; receive and send money) and this thing  follows under an existing EU law. You need to be PI(payment institution) or E-money institution(EMI).

Coinbase does not have a such license in EU( indeed they are licensed in almost all the USA but these licenses are not passporting to EU) and that's why they preferred to remove Germany from their list. Why Germany? Because this country specified that all the BTC trades require a license.

According to BaFin ( German Federal Financial Supervisory Authority), as a rule, commercial trading of Bitcoins is regulated and more than that, anyone who purchases and sells Bitcoins commercially in his own name for the account of others conducts principal broking services and has to obtain a licence by BaFin

So, the EU financial law regarding to the companies who run an exchanger already exists. They must be licensed now too. That's why Bitstamp and Circle already took these licenses. Do you think that they wanted to spare a lot of money for an useless thing? :) No! It is mandatory if you want to operate legally and with the peace of the mind in EU.

So, Circle has a financial license in EU and Kraken is illegal(both in USA and EU).

Kraken is operating without being MSB in any state from US and they have no license in EU too...What does mean? It's an illegal company. :) Yes, they are very vocal in media but they are...out of law.

The new article that you quote will make the existing law more clearly AND more, all the "wallets" will have to get a such license if they want to have clients from EU.

Maybe Kraken is under the Umbrella of Fidor. They use this bank, also bitcoin.de, for german customer and Kraken did have a very strong KYC check for Germans.
Make sense. 

Very good explanation. Many likes from my side.

Well since there are regulations banning bitcoins in your area the best way to have bitcoins is not to buy them but produce them through online jobs that pays bitcoin. In our country there is no declaration banning ownership or use of bitcoins but given the area that I am living in there are no place where you can purchase bitcoin, if I wanted to but I will need to travel 43 kilometers but there's no guarantee that I can buy one. The best alternative is to register on online jobs or get a signature campaign so you can own bitcoins. Hope this helps.

"very strong KYC" does not mean a financial license. also, they request documents without having authority to do that. only a licensed company can request documents to its clients. those document must be stored and reviewed by certain persons from company and according with strict rules (defined in license).

"very strong KYC" cannot be an excuse when the Feds will shut down Kraken. It will happen sooner or later.  Many exchangers were closed(and put them in jail) due to the same reason, unlicensed money transmitter.

Kraken is not under "the Umbrella of Fidor" because the bank license cannot be passported to other company. :)  Kraken is partially using Fidor for its EURO payments.  The rest of them are processed by Paycash :)

so, all the people who are sending documents(IDs, bills, bank statements) to these illegal companies are doing it on their own risk.

I wouldn't https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4s7biu/kraken_has_not_released_23000_of_my_funds_and/