Bitcoin Forum

Alternate cryptocurrencies => Altcoin Discussion => Topic started by: wingding on March 19, 2013, 02:49:33 PM



Title: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: wingding on March 19, 2013, 02:49:33 PM
The price of Bitcoins is starting to show all signs of a bubble. I believe that a currency doubling in value each second month lacks the thrustworthiness to become a substantial currency. Another problem is the uneveness of distribution: If a handful of people holds a significant percentage of the whole moneysupply, the stability of the of the price and moral consent is both at risk. No, its not from jealousness - I've bought my Bitcoins already.

Is it not time to start Bitcoin2? (I presume it is technically achieveable..?) It would get a much broader start and not bear such likeness of lottery. And the rate of mining new coins shold be set to level of in much longer perspective, and for a much larger number. And some smart way of exchange between the old and new Bitcoin.



Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: greyhawk on March 19, 2013, 02:51:22 PM
Is it not time to start Bitcoin2?

Go right ahead.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: Matthew N. Wright on March 19, 2013, 02:53:00 PM
And some smart way of exchange between the old and new Bitcoin.


Bitcoin is a zero-sum vehicle whose spot price is derived entirely from speculation. If it were centralized, transferring said value from one vehicle to the next would be easy. Since it is decentralized, every single bitcoin holder, miner and user would need to agree.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: nameface on March 19, 2013, 03:02:27 PM
Is it not time to start Bitcoin2?

Go right ahead.
+1
Op, there are a plethora of wannabe bitcoins called Alternative Cryptocurrencies  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0)
The more you learn about them, the more you'll support bitcoin.

But I agree that more currencies could be useful, because they can have different properties than bitcoin.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: Un zafado cualquiera on March 19, 2013, 05:11:43 PM
the only current crypto-currencies really valuable right now are ripples, namecoin and our bitcoins. these are the only with a defined purpose and usefulness.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on March 19, 2013, 05:24:33 PM
The price of Bitcoins is starting to show all signs of a bubble. I believe that a currency doubling in value each second month lacks the thrustworthiness to become a substantial currency. Another problem is the uneveness of distribution: If a handful of people holds a significant percentage of the whole moneysupply, the stability of the of the price and moral consent is both at risk. No, its not from jealousness - I've bought my Bitcoins already.

Is it not time to start Bitcoin2? (I presume it is technically achieveable..?) It would get a much broader start and not bear such likeness of lottery. And the rate of mining new coins shold be set to level of in much longer perspective, and for a much larger number. And some smart way of exchange between the old and new Bitcoin.



fork what ever you want to fork. May the blockchain be with you and your merkle roots ever hashable.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: nwbitcoin on March 19, 2013, 05:45:56 PM
You could save time and just buy and market litecoins? ;)


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on March 19, 2013, 05:52:44 PM
The price of Bitcoins is starting to show all signs of a bubble.

Even if it's a bubble I think it's safe to buy coins for up to 90$ per one.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: matauc12 on March 19, 2013, 06:08:41 PM
Its amazing how retarded a nerd community can be.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: Mike Christ on March 19, 2013, 06:12:14 PM
I believe that a currency doubling in value each second month lacks the thrustworthiness to become a substantial currency

And so ThrustCoin was born, the coin that is thrustworthy.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: FuzzyBear on March 19, 2013, 06:13:27 PM
Its amazing how retarded a nerd community can be.
Retnertarded :) new addition for the urban dictionary me thinks :P


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: nwbitcoin on March 19, 2013, 06:20:27 PM
Its amazing how retarded a nerd community can be.

LOL! :) +1

 ;D


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: Walter Rothbard on March 19, 2013, 06:51:44 PM
The price of Bitcoins is starting to show all signs of a bubble. I believe that a currency doubling in value each second month lacks the thrustworthiness to become a substantial currency. Another problem is the uneveness of distribution: If a handful of people holds a significant percentage of the whole moneysupply, the stability of the of the price and moral consent is both at risk. No, its not from jealousness - I've bought my Bitcoins already.

Is it not time to start Bitcoin2? (I presume it is technically achieveable..?) It would get a much broader start and not bear such likeness of lottery. And the rate of mining new coins shold be set to level of in much longer perspective, and for a much larger number. And some smart way of exchange between the old and new Bitcoin.



There are already several altcoins.  I think TerraCoin fits the bill you are looking for very easily, and there are plenty of reasonably easy ways to exchange.  Another altcoin might also work just as well.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: Un zafado cualquiera on March 19, 2013, 07:29:44 PM
Probably caused or exacerbated by (a) above, I've identified what appear to be several gaps in the design:
b) fee policy: most of the developers seem to treat 'fees' as if they're just an anti-DOS measure, and that when mining subsidies get smaller, a "Socialist" model will keep working. In other words, "fees should be something really small like <0.00001BTC to prevent spam, and if more block space is required, we'll give them more block space". That attitude shows a complete lack of understanding basic Economics.

sooo, you really think economics is an exact science...

cuu,cuu...


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: chriswen on March 19, 2013, 09:10:19 PM
yeah it would be cool if you got something for running a  full client.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: Walter Rothbard on March 19, 2013, 09:23:48 PM
Probably caused or exacerbated by (a) above, I've identified what appear to be several gaps in the design:
b) fee policy: most of the developers seem to treat 'fees' as if they're just an anti-DOS measure, and that when mining subsidies get smaller, a "Socialist" model will keep working.

I have yet to see developers advocate a "socialist" model for mining.  I really don't think there's a lot of adherents of socialism in the upper echelons of Bitcoin.  I could be wrong.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: logicbomb666 on March 20, 2013, 02:56:50 AM
the only current crypto-currencies really valuable right now are ripples, namecoin and our bitcoins. these are the only with a defined purpose and usefulness.

litecoin is over 4x more valuable than namecoin.  Am I missing something here?  Or is it you think litecoin doesn't have a defined purpose/usefulness?


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: Un zafado cualquiera on March 20, 2013, 05:44:00 AM
Probably caused or exacerbated by (a) above, I've identified what appear to be several gaps in the design:
b) fee policy: most of the developers seem to treat 'fees' as if they're just an anti-DOS measure, and that when mining subsidies get smaller, a "Socialist" model will keep working.

I have yet to see developers advocate a "socialist" model for mining.  I really don't think there's a lot of adherents of socialism in the upper echelons of Bitcoin.  I could be wrong.

Probably not consciously, no. But when fees are described as "just an anti-spam measure" and some people suggest drastically increasing the block capacity so there's "enough transaction space for everyone", one begins to wonder...

sooo, you really think economics is an exact science...

cuu,cuu...

I never suggested that. But I'm glad you brought it up because despite not being an exact science, economic theories can provide some good models for crowd behaviour. Similarly, an ideal gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas) isn't an exact model of real gases, but it would be silly to attempt a simulation of millions of individual gas atoms without at least considering the simplified model first. Even worse, it would be really naive to have no idea what is likely to happen to the temperature of a gas when it is compressed because, you know, real gases are not ideal and therefore the "ideal gas" model was rejected out-of-hand.

i think you made a pair of good points, but if you can trust math with a bunch of people, seriously you need a doctor. people often violated all rules of economics and you think is a valid approach. see 2008 economics crash.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: helloworld on March 20, 2013, 07:53:25 AM
the only current crypto-currencies really valuable right now are ripples, namecoin and our bitcoins. these are the only with a defined purpose and usefulness.

litecoin is over 4x more valuable than namecoin.  Am I missing something here?  Or is it you think litecoin doesn't have a defined purpose/usefulness?

Namecoin doesn't get much press that's for sure. Is it's userbase growing or shrinking?


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: Un zafado cualquiera on March 20, 2013, 03:41:12 PM
namecoin, even if is not popular, promotes decentralization of DNS. litecoin is just a copy of Bitcoin.
ripple goes a bit too far doing a potential Facebook killer. Even with the premined XRP, it has possibilities.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: Matthew N. Wright on March 20, 2013, 03:55:51 PM
litecoin is just a copy of Bitcoin.

As open source software that anyone can alter, compile and distribute themselves, it's not the bitcoin software that is currently causing a price bubble of $62.00 USD, it's the blockchain this *particular* implementation of bitcoin is protecting. Basically, the market is saying that this blockchain's security is worth $62. It has nothing to do with being the *only* bitcoin available, just that it's the longest and most active chain. If litecoin were to be just as long and active, the price of bitcoins would go down as a direct result.

Bitcoin is not a precious metal. It is not complimentary to silver as gold is, to the point that Bitcoins would be at $10 and Litecoins at $1. That is all mental acrobatics by people who don't understand investment vehicles and stored digital values. Think of it like a company called "Bitcoin" and another called "Litecoin". Both of them make exactly the same product, but one of the companies is newer, has less history behind it, but their product claims to be immune to some of the problems the Bitcoin company's products are seeing (Apple vs Android anyone?).

If your reasoning for Bitcoin being better is the current spot price, or that "there is only one true bitcoin", you're not understanding what bitcoin actually is. It's just a vehicle for storing value. There can be dozens of vehicles, and each one can have it's own followers that give it a "worth", and it is most likely that the most useful and safest vehicle will be the most expensive.

There can be 100 different bitcoin implementations, and *all of them* can have exactly the same price. As a matter of fact, with the issues of premining, hoarding and limited release, I'd be surprised if a large portion of bitcoins didn't eventually move to a second blockchain once things become unprofitable and a bit too much like the current governmental distribution of wealth we have now. Just my two cents.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: GIANNAT on March 20, 2013, 03:56:46 PM
At the moment i would be reluctant to buy something with BTC. If I buy a tshirt with 1BTC and 1 day later with the same 1BTC i can purchase a phone i would feel cheated


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: dancupid on March 20, 2013, 04:08:03 PM
At the moment i would be reluctant to buy something with BTC. If I buy a tshirt with 1BTC and 1 day later with the same 1BTC i can purchase a phone i would feel cheated

So why not put all you money into bitcoin?
Wouldn't you still feel cheated if the $ you spent on the tshirt could have doubled the next day if only you'd bought bitcoins instead? - You could then buy the ($60!) t-shirt at half price the next day.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: GIANNAT on March 20, 2013, 05:36:22 PM
At the moment i would be reluctant to buy something with BTC. If I buy a tshirt with 1BTC and 1 day later with the same 1BTC i can purchase a phone i would feel cheated

So why not put all you money into bitcoin?
Wouldn't you still feel cheated if the $ you spent on the tshirt could have doubled the next day if only you'd bought bitcoins instead? - You could then buy the ($60!) t-shirt at half price the next day.

That's what I did, but that's also the cause because I'm not spending my BTC


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: mr_random on March 20, 2013, 05:50:48 PM
the only current crypto-currencies really valuable right now are ripples, namecoin and our bitcoins. these are the only with a defined purpose and usefulness.

Don't forget PPCoin which solves amongst other things a big future problem of Bitcoin - transaction fees. With Bitcoin the fees are going to get bigger and bigger over time as more people use Bitcoins, with PPCoin the system is designed so that won't happen. Think about where all the disgruntled Bitconi users will eventually go when the transaction fees reach PayPal levels.


Title: Re: Time to kick-off Bitcoin2?
Post by: Un zafado cualquiera on March 21, 2013, 04:10:13 AM
the only current crypto-currencies really valuable right now are ripples, namecoin and our bitcoins. these are the only with a defined purpose and usefulness.

Don't forget PPCoin which solves amongst other things a big future problem of Bitcoin - transaction fees. With Bitcoin the fees are going to get bigger and bigger over time as more people use Bitcoins, with PPCoin the system is designed so that won't happen. Think about where all the disgruntled Bitconi users will eventually go when the transaction fees reach PayPal levels.

apparently you aren't thinking in Bitcoin...that's your problem with fee...when I started here the most important thing was supporting the network, now suddenly, fees are the enemy.


This!
With so many people apparently praying for a lottery win, it's hard to get any traction on the Open Source side of things.

people never took electrons as money and suddenly this guy Satoshi made a big step making a universal way for payback any work in computers...it's gonna have a LOT of traction