Bitcoin Forum

We must build a new exchange rate system based on the quantity of money in existence. For example the bitcoin/U.S. dollar exchange rate should be: 1 bitcoin = 500.000 U.S. dollars because all the U.S. dollars in the world are 10.5 trillion. (10.5 trillion/21 million = 500.000).

What do you think about this idea?

In this way many of other altcoins/shitcoin will also be valued more than what you have valued bitcoin. This is completely wrong way to valuate thats why we have marketcap as that show how much fiat is actually stored in terms of bitcoin divided by total available bitcoin (already mined) giving right current value.

The price of anything should be based on supply and demand.  There is no other way -- you can't have a group of people create an asset class out of thin air and claim the total value of this asset pool must be equal to the total value of all the dollars in the world.

That said, the capital markets are heavily manipulated by the global political and financial elites.  Market forces play a role, but most of the problems are ultimately caused by elite manipulation.  Bitcoin is a force that weakens this manipulation.

Based on what is your idea? Bitcoin should be independent from the fiat and that's what bitcoiners are trying to do.
The price of bitcoin is assigned based on other factors like total supply, number of bitcoin in the market, number of dead bitcoins (those that can't be spent ever), number of buy/sell orders etc.

So can I buy your bitcoins for $500? Of course not.
In a free market, like bitcoin, the price is what people will pay. Not what we think makes sense or what we hope it will be.

The idea to measure scarcity is an interesting one. Scarcity is certainly an important feature of valuable objects.
Exchange rate is determined by the market. Do you want to give me 500.00 U.S. dollars for 1 bitcoin?  :)

We can build an online platform and start using a system like that.

Yes, I like your idea. You're right. I'm all willing to help you set up that new system of yours. I guess we could start with me selling you one BTC. I'll pay the bank fee to transfer the $500.000 to my account and I'll send you one BTC right away.

I think it is a bad idea.

For example, I suppose you would suggest that the BTC/EUR exchange rate should be 1 BTC = €83000  because the euro's monetary base is about €1.75 trillion. Then people would buy BTC with euros and immediately sell them for dollars, over and over.

Lol you cant choose your own bitcoin price.Every product or thi g or value is worth per number of sells so it dependsvon popularity and how much somebody buy that thing or sell.Bitcoinprice per piece will never be bigger than 100000$.

It's all about supply and demand, there is just not enough interest in Bitcoin yet for that to happen. You can't just 'decide' that the price should be X amount of dollars per Bitcoin...
Just basic economics....

I got your idea, but printed money you never know really the total ammount circulating, collectors always get some extra money frozen, doesnt matter. The point is what would be the interest to see how many bitcoins had been mined and the price of each unit? As i know we have already that conversion for a long time and it didnt need to be made a new one just to add the total coins mined.

the monetary base of these fiats or bitcoin is a factor in determining their value but it is not the important factor for that. the thing that will determine the price of bitcoin or anything else for that matter is mostly the supply and demand relationship.

Well there are many things to consider before we adjust the current rate. Establishing a rate system is even hard to establish even fiat currency has a hard time placing an exact exchange since it is in constant change. Like Peso to Dollar, Yen to Dollar. The economic movement will always dictate how the currency will move with regards to price inflation and deflation.

This wouldn't work at all even if it makes sense in a way. The market is the basis of the value of certain things, in line with it's supply and demand, not just from the total supply.

Besides, if we're going to be using that computation, then all the other altcoins with smaller cap would then be valued higher than bitcoins, and of course, we wouldn't want that, right?

That is a good idea. Would you like to exchange my 1 bitcoin with your $500,000? If you do not, your idea will not work.

Some altcoins can choose this method.

This is rich. So you create an alt today and expect its value to be equal to the monetary base of the US dollar? There is only one thing which determines the demand - supply and demand

I mean, a group of altcoins, can choose to use an exchange platform like this.

Insane Idea, you cannot calculate the total quantity of bitcoin vs the total quantity of money for bitcoin price.  You need to see it's value first, then the adoption of people.  Btw you failed to includee euro, yen, rupi, peso and other nations money to compute your Bitcoin price.

It is simple logic. If you know the quantity of euro, yen, rupi, peso you can include them and calculate the altcoin price.

These fiat currencies supply are very heavily manipulated all the time, and we should not rely on governments to determine the value of bitcoins. We work on open markets where supply and demand,

dictate the value and on nothing else. The other fiat currencies are failing, because they manipulate the supply. We know there will only be 21 000 000 bitcoins and that should be the determining

factor for it's price. Bitcoin can stand on it's own, it does not have to rely on fiat currencies to determine it's value.  ::)

well said just leave bitcoin to work by itself no need to rely on anything it is existing without any reliance from any currency so we must not determine the price on any thing. thanks sir.

It's an unneeded idea, because the free market will find a fair valuation for all currencies and assets. Centrally planned exchange rates tend to have a short history since reality doesn't care about centralized planning.

You've also made a serious logical error, because you assume that the USD would be solely used as an exchange medium for Bitcoin. That, of course, is utter nonsense. The USD is used to trade millions of other things apart from Bitcoin. Under your assumption you would no longer be able to buy even a single sandwich with the USD, since the whole currency would be absorbed for buying Bitcoin. However, if that was the case, the USD would serve no purpose as a separate currency - it would effectively just be a different currency unit for Bitcoin.

ya.ya.yo!

The central banks can manipulate the fiat supply by doing quantitative easing, ie printing money. That is bad.

I think this is insane calculation. You can’t really decide the price of 21 million bitcoins. You can only decide the price of bitcoins in your holdings (that will be the price you are willing to take in exchange of those coins and that too if market conditions are in your favor).

If we are calling bitcoin a decentralized currency then why you want to keep control on price? Yes I want a growth in price but I am expecting it in a natural way. Let the law of ‘demand and supply’ decide it.

thats true, though you would need to have an auto calculator i guess and thats it it is really easy to solve it

It's funny reading this now, as bitcoin has broken through $500.  You would be on the losing end of that deal at present.   I agree that free markets must rule, and bitcoin can't be tied to one country's currency.

Off topic:  What's up with yobit?  They're offline and before that they said Dash withdrawals were suspended.   Gotta use poloniex next time.

The current rate system is the best, changing it to your version will make shitcoins have some value soo its uselles and will point new investors into the wrong side.
Off topic, i had heard something about yobit being offline, but i didnt see any thread to talk about it, if you know one about those problem let me know.

And why bitcoin value should be linked only with USD?

It`s impossible to maintain a fixed exchange rate between btc and USD.

The market and the people determine the value and the price of currencies.

its good idea for us who trade on the market.
but the most important should we have is a great exchanger with great security and insurance.
because its not funny anymore when you enjoying trading, some hacker trying to stole your money.

it is an good idea to have new exchange rate system, bitcoin should gain more popularity . more the buy in demand the bitcoin price will go high , and bitcoin is now dominating on digital currency , there i huge growth for the bitcoin in future :).

yeah it is really easy, i doubt that we need an exchange system for that as it is easy to count yourself

When the bitcoin is very popular and everybody uses it, there will be no exchange system. It is the only currency.

How are you supporting this idea. You are a legendary and you should know a lot about Bitcoin. This system would completely destroy the point of the market cap. I definitely think it is a bad idea.

i think its not happen for now, but i am sure that in future, that price will be reasonable when bitcoin itself is ready to be another payment, not only on internet, but in real life, and there is many store offline around us that will accept bitcoin as their payment.

for now, the price of 1 bitcoin =  500.000 US dollars is really a dream for every bitcoiners and this will need some time before it can reach for that price. let we use the price at the moment and follow the journey of bitcoin itself.

This is just your dream, bitcoin has nothing to do with dollar or any other currencie, i do understand you would like to see those, who wouldnt, but bitcoin its independent and wont be never addicted to any currencie, you can trade it against any currency and just.

Incorrect assessment of the situation. Why then do not you take into account the currency of other countries? After bitcoints distributed worldwide. Why do we put such a relationship. bitcoints rate depends on many factors, not only on the amount of dollars

OP idea is so rare, I really do not want to overthink so much of it as we already have our exchanges now and I am contented with the exchange rate system they are using and they have the standard one, maybe we should just follow it because that is the normal and right thing to do.

You are absolutely right. The bitcoin is a currency, it does not rely on the US dollar or other  fiat to survive.

There are 3 main factors, which really depend on the course of bitcoin:
1.Economic – these factors include several important points. First, the rate depends on how many bitcoins are produced and mined. When the amount of bitcoin in real transactions is higher than the volume of the currency in transactions on the exchange, the rate is increasing.
2.Technical – this includes all the important points related to the technical component of the operation of cryptocurrency. The main factor is the difficulty of bitcoin mining. If the methods become more complex and services are closed, it affects the number of earners, which in turn affects the exchange rate.
3.The interest in the currency – using search queries it was proven that the interest in bitcoin also affects its course. So, seeing a significant increase in queries to Google of cryptocurrencies, it was observed that its rate increased. The more attention draws to itself the currency, the more it is used more and more, and this is the main factor influencing the exchange rate in any kind of money.

Why should the total value of all BTC equal the total value of USD or some other fiat currency?

Most commodities are denominated in US dollars.  The majority of global equity, fixed income, and real estate is denominated in either USD, EUR, JPY, GBP, CAD, or CNY.

Literally billions of people use dollars on a daily basis.

Compare this with a few millions that use BTC. 

Despite having advantages over fiat, BTC and other cryptocurrencies have a long way to go in terms of adoption.

OP doesn`t know how exchange rate system works, he just wrote something that had logic in one moment, but just in his head. And what is
more interesting is `we` on the beginning, I wonder who is that `we`? How can anyone here build new system?
This changing systems can`t happen over night, I think just with masses on the street this can be done. When will bitcoin come to the point
where all world is using it, maybe we can talk about changing exchange system.

this can happen only if all people who are using USD start using bitcoin. other than this it is impossible to happen. no one will pay that amount of money to buy only one btc now when there are a lot of people willing to sell him for very cheaper prices

Why we need a market cap?

This is not a good exchange rate if it does happen. This would mean that the price of Bitcoin would only depend on the dollar. Hence, this would mean that Bitcoin will, in turn, be a centralized currency! Because the basis of it's price is dependent upon a centralized currency which is the USD.

The price of bitcoin depends on its demand and that is the best thing i guess, because in this way the price would depend on the users asking for bitcoins, as there are just a limited amount of bitcoin in circulation so the price would increase with the increment in its demand.

Im not sure with did this thus your have a greate idea hense we can do great things with this idea but doing this with coins will not make better we know that bitcoin is not stable and this part of bitcoin economy if you're setting it's price more tradings site will die.

Yes I actually agree with you. Bitcoin as of now being dictated by the Markets price trend is already a good thing. There is no need to alter the exchange rates, as of now its already at 700 plus dollars and returning it back to 500$ is one of the worst things that can actually happen. We all dream of price inflation and bitcoin has already doing that for 6 or more years now. For me bitcoins price is sufficient enough and we dont need to change the exchange rate system.

The downside of this suggestion is not just because of the $200+ decrease in price. Let us remember that Bitcoin was designed to be a decentralized currency. Meaning no government, state, organization or any group controls bitcoin. It is a currency by the people and for the people who believes in it. Matching the price of USD means that Bitcoin will be part of the US, which will run contrary to its original purpose.

You're right, the price of Bitcoins can not be tied to any national currency. Bitcoin standalone system.
Bitcoin cost depends on many factors

Yes. It seems OP just want huge price levels for bitcoins for some reason but not with exactly in a way why bitcoin was created. Tying bitcoin prices with dollars virtually will mean bitcoins as cryptography version of dollars similar to how altcoin prices are decided with respect to bitcoin prices.

Bitcoin's value must be calculated by people's demand because we people by ourselves value bitcoins not just due to for a central authority.

Yes, that's for sure. Bitcoin can not be tied to the dollar. Its value depends on other phenomena. This is an alternative currency, and its system is built differently

I once made my own currency. I only created three units. By your logic, I could just divide the US money supply by 3 to derive the value of my currency, but I'd get laughed at when I took my currency to the bank and asked them to exchange it for trillions of dollars.

Quantity is not directly related to value. For example, a pound of bread has a different value than a pound of gold. Floating exchange rates set in a free market environment allow for accurate valuation. Your system does not.

No, the idea is perfect. But no mining. Only buy/sell.

....Errr no. The exchange rate of BTC isn't based on just supply. This article provides a rather good and simple explanation: https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/kb/what-determines-bitcoins-price/

I do not understand why only the dollars? because Bitcoin is an international currency. It means for your theory you need to take note of the amount of all currencies in the world.

Where did you find the 3 units? No mining, no premine, only buy/sell.

You should learn about supply & demand rules..those are the main rules out there which drive the prices of a stock/currency/good.
Also don't forget about speculation and manipulations which then are another thread to deal with.

Im talking about new rules. New ideas.

If you can convince people to buy it for that much, and equally convince others to not sell for lower than that value, sure. Knock yourself out.

Bitcoin is a relatively free market, there is no way to force people to buy or sell for values as massive as that. You can't force a fixed rate.

Also it shouldn't be tied to just the value of USD in existence. If the USD was backed by all the Bitcoin in the world something like this would make sense, but it isn't, so that's not applicable.



Run the numbers with close to $10 quadrillion. That is approx. the global economy value, including market valuations, metals, futures, etc.

The idea is perfect. This is how exhange rates will work in the future. No market. Only quantity.

New rules have to work though. Yours don't. Economics is a science that explains how we make rational choices, and rational choice includes how we value things. There is a way that things are valued and it's not something you can change. If, for example, I suddenly declare that bread shall cost $0.01 per loaf (and enforce it), no one will make bread anymore.

So you can't just make up a new system of valuing things. It won't work.