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Title: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: afbitcoins on March 19, 2013, 11:20:27 PM From my blog, I’ve spent some of my hard earned time scaling up a graph of bitcoins to match as closely as I can on both time and price axis with a similar graph for silver. Heres the result.
http://afbitcoins.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/20130319-silver-versus-bitcoins.png?w=650 http://afbitcoins.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/fight-silver-versus-bitcoins/ (http://afbitcoins.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/fight-silver-versus-bitcoins/) Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: Beta-coiner1 on March 19, 2013, 11:27:58 PM A bitcoin is currently worth 2 ounces of silver and ~1 gram of gold.
Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: SgtSpike on March 19, 2013, 11:28:21 PM Why does your thread title say "Silver vs Gold", when clearly, that is not what you aim to discuss?
Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: Mike Christ on March 19, 2013, 11:29:00 PM Why does your thread title say "Silver vs Gold", when clearly, that is not what you aim to discuss? It certainly got my attention :P Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: notme on March 19, 2013, 11:29:22 PM There are 40k times as many ounces of silver above ground now as there will ever be bitcoins. BTC is much easier to move up and harder to naked short sell since delivery is so easy to demand.
Silver has no chance. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: afbitcoins on March 19, 2013, 11:33:53 PM oops must have gold on the brain. thanks for pointing it out, have fixed the subject now
:-[ Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: afbitcoins on March 19, 2013, 11:35:17 PM There are 40k times as many ounces of silver above ground now as there will ever be bitcoins. BTC is much easier to move up and harder to naked short sell since delivery is so easy to demand. Silver has no chance. Like it, very persuasive argument.. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: afbitcoins on March 19, 2013, 11:47:41 PM Been trying to post on tfmetalsreport but the site is down again. Need some silver bugs to fight that corner, not a single vote for silver yet.
Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: Mike Christ on March 19, 2013, 11:48:38 PM The poll has spoken!!
Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: notme on March 20, 2013, 12:25:56 AM Good point, although 40k unrelated chains would be wasteful when merged mining could secure them all with many fewer resources. But yes, bitcoin won't be the only use of this technology.
Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: notme on March 20, 2013, 12:26:25 AM The poll has spoken!! Let's hope the Bernankester's not reading this thread, or he might crash the Dollar (just in time for April Fools :D) just to prove 23 smug Bitcoiners wrong :D Crashing the dollar would prove them right. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: cypherdoc on March 20, 2013, 05:25:32 AM bwahahaha!
43:1 ?! sure feels good selling all those bags of silver @ $49. ;D Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: oakpacific on March 20, 2013, 05:33:47 AM There are 40k times as many ounces of silver above ground now as there will ever be bitcoins. BTC is much easier to move up and harder to naked short sell since delivery is so easy to demand. Silver has no chance. Like it, very persuasive argument.. Yeah but I can't just discover/make up a new atom with a limited supply and call it "Blyther". But there could one day be 40k crypto-coins, each originally inspired by Bitcoin. This is one thing that is bound to keep deterring sceptics... until Bitcoin users start getting it and presenting the FOSS idea properly. Although I still see this as positive, in the next few years there could be 10 new "in-game coins" inspired by Bitcoin, 50 large corporations using private versions of Bitcoin for their supply chain, 100 different company stock schemes that are impossible to "naked short" thanks to Bitcoin technology... And if they're each as big as Bitcoin itself, that's utterly massive growth of 160 times, yet actual Bitcoin users see no increase in price! Given that most Bitcoin users seem to be speculating that they'll get rich easily due to seigniorage because everyone will want to buy-in... I'll have no sympathy if it doesn't work out that way. The question is that physical silver is too difficult to move around to where it's useful, and paper silver can be created at a faster rate than bitcoin. Corporations don't need to use bitcoin for bookkeeping, it's for transactions between different legal entities, and it will win the competition because it already gets the greatest support. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: Timo Y on March 20, 2013, 09:28:25 AM Yeah but I can't just discover/make up a new atom with a limited supply and call it "Blyther". Well you can start using ruthenium or iridium as a money. Physically, there is nothing about gold and silver that makes them more suitable as a store-of-value than ruthenium or iridium. So how come these lesser-known metals aren't used as a store-of-value? Network effect. Gold and silver are only money because everyone thinks they are money. Same applies to Bitcoin. That's why competing alt-currencies are going to have an extremely hard time displacing Bitcoin. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: rpietila on March 20, 2013, 09:33:10 AM There are 40k times as many ounces of silver above ground now as there will ever be bitcoins. Nah, as for the facts, there is quite exactly 1000 ounces of silver above ground per 1 bitcoin, of which about 10% is identified. Most of the supply is hidden and not tradable, as with bitcoin. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: molecular on March 20, 2013, 11:34:17 AM There are 40k times as many ounces of silver above ground now as there will ever be bitcoins. Nah, as for the facts, there is quite exactly 1000 ounces of silver above ground per 1 bitcoin, of which about 10% is identified. Most of the supply is hidden and not tradable, as with bitcoin. good enough for me. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: rpietila on March 20, 2013, 12:39:42 PM Stunning resultss... The one voter who has confidence in silver, come and buy some from me at the links below! ;D Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: notme on March 20, 2013, 05:16:56 PM There are 40k times as many ounces of silver above ground now as there will ever be bitcoins. Nah, as for the facts, there is quite exactly 1000 ounces of silver above ground per 1 bitcoin, of which about 10% is identified. Most of the supply is hidden and not tradable, as with bitcoin. As you say yourself, much of the supply is hidden. My source says 840 billion ounces, yours apparently says 21 billion ounces. Either way, there is dramatically more silver than bitcoin, plus way more uncertainty regarding the actual amount of silver already mined. With bitcoin, we can calculate an exact number at any point. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: SgtSpike on March 20, 2013, 05:27:39 PM This isn't even a competition. It's like a 2 year old fighting Muhammad Ali.
Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: molecular on March 20, 2013, 05:28:55 PM There are 40k times as many ounces of silver above ground now as there will ever be bitcoins. Nah, as for the facts, there is quite exactly 1000 ounces of silver above ground per 1 bitcoin, of which about 10% is identified. Most of the supply is hidden and not tradable, as with bitcoin. As you say yourself, much of the supply is hidden. My source says 840 billion ounces, yours apparently says 21 billion ounces. Either way, there is dramatically more silver than bitcoin, plus way more uncertainty regarding the actual amount of silver already mined. With bitcoin, we can calculate an exact number at any point. I did some research a while back and came up with 25 billion oz silver existing above-ground (not just investment silver). How do you come up with 840 billion ounces? Does that somehow include "minable silver" or something? Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: Spaceman_Spiff on March 20, 2013, 05:29:37 PM Stunning resultss... The one voter who has confidence in silver, come and buy some from me at the links below! ;D There is a difference between having confidence in silver, and thinking it will reach $100 faster than bitcoin... Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: Peter Lambert on March 20, 2013, 05:46:31 PM Poll is flawed. It should also have an option for "neither".
Not that I would vote that way, but the option should be there for completeness. I think bitcoins will hit $100 within 1 month to two years, and silver will hit $100 somewhere between three and ten years. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: Peter Lambert on March 20, 2013, 05:48:20 PM This isn't even a competition. It's like a 2 year old fighting Muhammad Ali. More like a 90 year old fighter leaning on a walker wondering who this upstart thinks he is messing with. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: SgtSpike on March 20, 2013, 06:05:43 PM This isn't even a competition. It's like a 2 year old fighting Muhammad Ali. More like a 90 year old fighter leaning on a walker wondering who this upstart thinks he is messing with. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: notme on March 20, 2013, 06:25:23 PM There are 40k times as many ounces of silver above ground now as there will ever be bitcoins. Nah, as for the facts, there is quite exactly 1000 ounces of silver above ground per 1 bitcoin, of which about 10% is identified. Most of the supply is hidden and not tradable, as with bitcoin. As you say yourself, much of the supply is hidden. My source says 840 billion ounces, yours apparently says 21 billion ounces. Either way, there is dramatically more silver than bitcoin, plus way more uncertainty regarding the actual amount of silver already mined. With bitcoin, we can calculate an exact number at any point. I did some research a while back and came up with 25 billion oz silver existing above-ground (not just investment silver). How do you come up with 840 billion ounces? Does that somehow include "minable silver" or something? I honestly don't remember, which is why I didn't include a link above. I read it somewhere and now I can't find it. Thanks for providing support for rpietilas figure. It is probably more accurate, although my points remain valid even with only 1000 times as many silver ounces as bitcoins. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: molecular on March 20, 2013, 06:46:00 PM There are 40k times as many ounces of silver above ground now as there will ever be bitcoins. Nah, as for the facts, there is quite exactly 1000 ounces of silver above ground per 1 bitcoin, of which about 10% is identified. Most of the supply is hidden and not tradable, as with bitcoin. As you say yourself, much of the supply is hidden. My source says 840 billion ounces, yours apparently says 21 billion ounces. Either way, there is dramatically more silver than bitcoin, plus way more uncertainty regarding the actual amount of silver already mined. With bitcoin, we can calculate an exact number at any point. I did some research a while back and came up with 25 billion oz silver existing above-ground (not just investment silver). How do you come up with 840 billion ounces? Does that somehow include "minable silver" or something? I honestly don't remember, which is why I didn't include a link above. I read it somewhere and now I can't find it. Thanks for providing support for rpietilas figure. It is probably more accurate, although my points remain valid even with only 1000 times as many silver ounces as bitcoins. Well, this illustrates the point that has been made before (and many times here, of course): knowing the supply of the commodity to be used as a money is relevant and important. Bitcoin wins on this one. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: afbitcoins on March 20, 2013, 10:40:36 PM There are 40k times as many ounces of silver above ground now as there will ever be bitcoins. BTC is much easier to move up and harder to naked short sell since delivery is so easy to demand. Silver has no chance. Like it, very persuasive argument.. Yeah but I can't just discover/make up a new atom with a limited supply and call it "Blyther". But there could one day be 40k crypto-coins, each originally inspired by Bitcoin. This is one thing that is bound to keep deterring sceptics... until Bitcoin users start getting it and presenting the FOSS idea properly. Although I still see this as positive, in the next few years there could be 10 new "in-game coins" inspired by Bitcoin, 50 large corporations using private versions of Bitcoin for their supply chain, 100 different company stock schemes that are impossible to "naked short" thanks to Bitcoin technology... And if they're each as big as Bitcoin itself, that's utterly massive growth of 160 times, yet actual Bitcoin users see no increase in price! Given that most Bitcoin users seem to be speculating that they'll get rich easily due to seigniorage because everyone will want to buy-in... I'll have no sympathy if it doesn't work out that way. There are already quite a few bitcoin clones around, I think one will probably always dominate though. Unless bitcoin encounters unsolvable unforseen problems its in pole position just now and will continue until something better replaces it. I think it might be a bit like social networks, myspace dominated, then bebo, no-one uses them anymore its all facebook. Perhaps the same will happen with crypto currency ? There will be many attempts to replace it with something easier to centrally control. I can only hope those attempts meet abject failure. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: afbitcoins on March 20, 2013, 10:46:15 PM This isn't even a competition. It's like a 2 year old fighting Muhammad Ali. ;D Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: Odalv on March 20, 2013, 10:52:15 PM Although I still see this as positive, in the next few years there could be 10 new "in-game coins" inspired by Bitcoin, 50 large corporations using private versions of Bitcoin for their supply chain, 100 different company stock schemes that are impossible to "naked short" thanks to Bitcoin technology... And if they're each as big as Bitcoin itself, that's utterly massive growth of 160 times, yet actual Bitcoin users see no increase in price! Given that most Bitcoin users seem to be speculating that they'll get rich easily due to seigniorage because everyone will want to buy-in... I'll have no sympathy if it doesn't work out that way. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: afbitcoins on March 20, 2013, 10:56:25 PM Poll is flawed. It should also have an option for "neither". Not that I would vote that way, but the option should be there for completeness. I think bitcoins will hit $100 within 1 month to two years, and silver will hit $100 somewhere between three and ten years. In my opinion the poll is valid. Both are certain to go past $100 the only question is which first. The USD and all fiat currencies are turning into toilet paper thanks to central bankers. edit - although this is definately a home win for bitcoins. wonder what a similar poll would show on a metals forum. Theres a lot of anti-bitcoin sentiment on tfmetalsreport for example. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: Mike Christ on March 20, 2013, 11:05:39 PM This isn't even a competition. It's like a 2 year old fighting Muhammad Ali. I find this quite a comical comparison ;D Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus gold Post by: rpietila on March 20, 2013, 11:26:31 PM I did some research a while back and came up with 25 billion oz silver existing above-ground (not just investment silver). How do you come up with 840 billion ounces? Does that somehow include "minable silver" or something? I honestly don't remember, which is why I didn't include a link above. I read it somewhere and now I can't find it. Thanks for providing support for rpietilas figure. It is probably more accurate, although my points remain valid even with only 1000 times as many silver ounces as bitcoins. I have written a book about it, in Finnish though. The mined supply is 45-50 Boz, of which about half has been consumed practically irrevocably (since recycling is an order of magnitude more expensive than mining more from the ground, this supply will not be tapped). This leaves about 20-25 Boz of silver, of which only about 2 Boz can be identified. Most of this is in the form of U.S. pre-1964 coins, the other large forms being Good Delivery bars, and 1oz investment silver coins. The amount of physical investment silver that physically changes hands annually, is minuscule, perhaps as small as 200 million ounces. My company, Silvervault, warehouses about 1/20000 of all investment silver in the world, and funnily enough, owns more than that percentage of all the bitcoins. ;D Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: Peter Lambert on March 21, 2013, 03:42:03 PM Poll is flawed. It should also have an option for "neither". Not that I would vote that way, but the option should be there for completeness. I think bitcoins will hit $100 within 1 month to two years, and silver will hit $100 somewhere between three and ten years. In my opinion the poll is valid. Both are certain to go past $100 the only question is which first. The USD and all fiat currencies are turning into toilet paper thanks to central bankers. edit - although this is definately a home win for bitcoins. wonder what a similar poll would show on a metals forum. Theres a lot of anti-bitcoin sentiment on tfmetalsreport for example. Conceivable it would be possible for the US to stop printing money, stop spending money they don't have, thus turning around their financial situation and strengthing the USD to the extent that silver never hits $100. Hah, it was hard for me to write that with a straight face. The US has a policy of trying to keep inflation around 3-4% per year, so unless the policy makers are all thrown out and replaced with anti-inflationists, silver and bitcoin will inevitably hit that $100 mark. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: afbitcoins on March 21, 2013, 04:20:52 PM Poll is flawed. It should also have an option for "neither". Not that I would vote that way, but the option should be there for completeness. I think bitcoins will hit $100 within 1 month to two years, and silver will hit $100 somewhere between three and ten years. In my opinion the poll is valid. Both are certain to go past $100 the only question is which first. The USD and all fiat currencies are turning into toilet paper thanks to central bankers. edit - although this is definately a home win for bitcoins. wonder what a similar poll would show on a metals forum. Theres a lot of anti-bitcoin sentiment on tfmetalsreport for example. Conceivable it would be possible for the US to stop printing money, stop spending money they don't have, thus turning around their financial situation and strengthing the USD to the extent that silver never hits $100. Hah, it was hard for me to write that with a straight face. The US has a policy of trying to keep inflation around 3-4% per year, so unless the policy makers are all thrown out and replaced with anti-inflationists, silver and bitcoin will inevitably hit that $100 mark. I think we're on the same page really. Technically they could strengthen the dollar to the point where it no longer devalues, however that would be unique amongst unbacked fiat currencies or i suppose they could create a new dollar backed by gold or something.. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: afbitcoins on March 28, 2013, 10:58:46 AM Might have a winner soon in the race to $100 8)
Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: smoothie on March 28, 2013, 11:01:54 AM New thread title: Gold or Bitcoin to $3000 first?
Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: afbitcoins on April 01, 2013, 02:56:14 PM ;D
The 98.4% who thought bitcoins would beat silver to being worth $100 were totally correct. Well done to all the participants of the poll including the 2 who voted silver in a gamely contrarian way. $100 bitcoins!!!! http://afbitcoins.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/100-bitcoins/ (http://afbitcoins.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/100-bitcoins/) Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: Peter Lambert on July 17, 2013, 03:11:31 PM I think silver went down from when the poll started? Anybody want to guess on if/when Silver will go up to $100?
I guess we can restart the poll now that bitcoins are back under $100? Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: derpinheimer on July 17, 2013, 03:14:29 PM Stupid poll is stupid. Bitcoin has hit or gone above 100 six times in the past 7 days.
Is it possible it wont again? Sure. But the odds are basically 0. Silver going over 100 will take a long time. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: 01BTC10 on July 17, 2013, 03:17:31 PM Stupid poll is stupid. Bitcoin has hit or gone above 100 six times in the past 7 days. When the pool was created, Bitcoin did never reach $100.Is it possible it wont again? Sure. But the odds are basically 0. Silver going over 100 will take a long time. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: Peter Lambert on July 17, 2013, 03:18:15 PM Stupid poll is stupid. Bitcoin has hit or gone above 100 six times in the past 7 days. Is it possible it wont again? Sure. But the odds are basically 0. Silver going over 100 will take a long time. When the poll was created, bitcoin and silver were about equal. Title: Re: Fight!!! Silver versus bitcoin Post by: notme on July 17, 2013, 06:43:53 PM Stupid poll is stupid. Bitcoin has hit or gone above 100 six times in the past 7 days. Is it possible it wont again? Sure. But the odds are basically 0. Silver going over 100 will take a long time. When the poll was created, bitcoin and silver were about equal. Derp derp, derpinheimer. |
