Bitcoin Forum

I'm not saying there aren't going to be more user-friendly applications someday, but as of now it's just way too confusing. It's even confusing to me and I've spent all day reading about Bitcoin and have slightly higher computer knowledge than most people.

Please look at these statements of mine, THANK YOU!

I've been literally reading ALL DAY and I can't wrap my stupid head around Multi-Bit and how it works. Can someone PLEASE break down these following questions for me?

1. What the heck is a difference between a wallet and a private key in Multi-bit? Is the wallet essentially an unlocked version of the key? (since everytime I start up Multi-bit the wallet just opens)

2. I heard the private key is a code which essentially can get you access to your bitcoins...your bitcoins are stored in that code, right? How do I find that code in the event that the "Wallet.key" file is corrupted? Then, in the case that that .key file is corrupted, what do I do with that long code to get back access to my coins?

Thank you for taking the time to read, and believe me I really have put effort into understanding.

Multi-bit is not bitcoin.

Luckily 50% of the population is smarter than the average person.  ;)

Sorry I can't help you with Multi-bit, I don't use it. Maybe you should try blockchain.info - it's pretty straightforward.

Thats true, man, you nailed it. But everything is relative. How confusing are all those banks, credit systems, government revenue, etc? Although I have PhD in physics, I understand neither of those. What about average person?
 

Cars are WAY too confusing for the average person.  Have you ever tried to take a car apart into all it's component pieces and put it all back together?

Ok, now that we've got that out of the way. . .

A wallet is a program that allows you to access your bitcoins.

Electrum is a wallet.
MultiBit is a wallet.
Bitcoin-Qt is a wallet.
https://blockchain.info/wallet is a wallet.

A bitcoin address is a special string of letters and numbers that is generated from a private key.  A wallet can have MANY bitcoin addresses.  When you want to receive bitcoins, you provide a bitcoin address from your wallet to the person who will be sending you bitcoins.  They use their wallet to create a transaction that assigns bitcoin value to the address in an output.

Here is an example of an address: 1AD1PeA41UYrcdtg68jcZoEzHJYTEh5XrZ

A private key is essentially a super secret password that you need to access/spend the bitcoins that are associated with a paarticual bitcoin address.  Each bitcoin address has its own unique private key.  The wallet program stores these private keys for you.  Most wallet programs don't show this private key to you.  The wallet program takes care of storing it and using it when you decide to create a transaction to send bitcoins somewhere.

As long as you have the private key stored somewhere safe, you will be able to access your bitcoins.  If anyone else ever gets access to your private key, they will be able to access your bitcoins.  This means that it is important to create a backup of whatever files your wallet program uses to store those private keys (so you still have them if your computer crashes or burns up in a fire, or is destroyed in a tornado, or whatever).  It also means that it is important to protect the files that store the private keys from being accessed by anyone else (many wallet programs allow you to provide a password to encrypt the contents of the file that stores your private keys).

The bitcoins are stored in the public blockchain.  Every full peer participating in the bitcoin network has a complete copy of the public blockchain that has all the bitcoins, but the ownership of those bitcoins can't be transferred to anyone else without the private key that is used to sign the transaction.  As long as you have your private keys safely stored somewhere (and nobody else has access to them), you'll be able to regain access to your bitcoins even if your computer is destroyed.

I'm not certain about the specifics of MultiBit and where it stores the private keys and if or how it allows you to export, import, save, restore, encrypt, or otherwise protect them.

Ya, when you start seeing grandma btc buying clubs spring up - because it's all made easy-to-learn, easy-to-buy by start up companies, who see it's current complexity as the $ (or btc) opportunity (to bring it to the average person) - then we might be looking at a bubble.   

Years out.  Until then, the only bubble is fiat.

Agree, if your parents cannot use it, it's too complicated.

If you cannot explain it in one paragraph it's too complicated.

People use services not software.

Geeks with Asperger Syndrome will never understand this.

This is why most of them are jobless and girl-friendless.

Well tech support from india, isn't a higher computer knowledge, but I hate complainers if I sat around and complained about everything that is wrong or unless in bitcoin, I would be spamming the forum everyday with 1000's of post. So this is what I say, how about you ask questions nicely and maybe people will help you without being an idiot. Also if you think a day of reading will wrap your head around bitcoin your are very wrong. Maybe a whole weekend will help you, I am very highly skilled in computers, and I still learn stuff. Some people find that to be the beauty of bitcoin, but trust me average people can learn the basics of bitcoin, and the core. Just like I don't know the SSL RFC by heart, but I know enough that I know how it works and average people don't know the SSL RFC at all and they can do banking knowing it is secure. Bitcoin is so young and to attack it like that is just so unfair, get an open mind and then come back to it.

So, since my parents are able to use bitcoin, this means is isn't too complicated, right?

LOL.  You're funny.

I've used many different Bitcoin wallets over my time using bitcoin (mostly as a miner), I trade more now.

Admittedly Multibit was not one I tried. It is suppose to be pretty user friendly, but the standard client (bitcoin qt) for me was already exactly that, especially now with the windows installer, being so awesome and simple.

My Partner, recently relented and asked about Bitcoin, she said it was a lot bloody easier than trying to setup and use her Paypal account and Barclay's account. To me that says a lot. Also trades are done quick 24/7 and don't cost anything, even international, amazing!

She loves it. She does some international and local trade like myself, but she's not very techy, so usually had left this up to me, she did it her self this time.


To Attempt to answer your questions:


1) Private key, please excuse the vagueness, think of this as a combination of your account number and your password in one key - Only you should know this. You only need this for backup purposes, so it is essential, but won't be asked for by the client, after it's first imported into a wallet.
Your Wallet is just the account where your bitcoins are stored, depending on the client, you can have multiple accounts in one wallet, or just one.
Public key, is just your account number. This is known so others can send BTC to and you vice versa.

Generally speaking all wallets also should be password protected & encrypted. So any transaction, has to ask you for that password. You can view but not touch so to speak.

2) The private key, is a very unique key that identifies your account yes. But it's value or any information outside of that is not stored in the key it self. It is stored in the blockchain, that can be re-downloaded. So if the wallet.key file becomes corrupted, the worse you'd need to do is download the blockchain again or repair it. In the unlikely scenario also re-inserting your private key might be needed I suppose. But as long as you got that private key, you won't lose your Bitcoins, due to a corrupted file.

I am a barrel of laughs in this thread

Danny, thank you!

I guess another question is this, will help me wrap my head around it: say I trust everyone in my home And have no fear of theft, then in that scenario, I can always just leave multi bit open, and have no need to access or make private keys, right?

On the otherhand, since multi bit opens the wallet automatically everytime upon opening, if I want to be super secure then after every transaction I export another private key, close the program, delete the wallet file on my computer, and then hide the key file somewhere of my choosing, right?

Also if anyone knows how to get the key code from a multi bit file please tell me (in case I have a lot of bitcoins someday, and the .key file goes corrupt. Thanks!

And to the other guy, I wasn attacking! I obviously said in the beginning my stupid brain was having trouble with this... Not attacking bitcoin :)

OP, give it some more time. You're on your way by asking questions and getting answers.

Personally, it took me about month of weekends to feel confident enough to convert some USD to BTC. For new users, I think the wallet and security around it is one of the more intimidating sides of Bitcoin. Just check out the stickied threads in this forum for some peace of mind.

To think that I almost got into Bitcoin when they were $8 bucks each makes me want to slap my past self!

Lethos, you are dead on about it being easier than PayPal! With PP's increase in fraud protection (good), it's a pain in the ass to get a full featured account going (bad)!

I guess next thing I need to learn Is how to access my bitcoins if I don't have an active wallet, and the private .key file happens to corrupt. That is the part that scares me :)

Just make sure it is password protected and encrypted (ie. asks for a password when you send BTC). Then that is all you need to do.
Make sure you keep your PrivateKey Private (don't tell anyone), and keep it some where very safe. No need to delete things.
You don't have to keep it open all the time, that is a personal preference.

It was actually my Partner who said it in that context, I agreed with her of course as someone who has a Paypal account and used it for business purposes for a few years (still do). Helps pay the bills, till more people I work with are willing to switch over to Btc.

It seems you are not paying attention.  You never need to "make private keys".  MultiBit should handle the private keys for you.  You need to have a safe backup of the file where MultiBit stores the private keys in case your computer is destroyed (hard drive crash, fire, flood, tornado, lightning strike, burglary, etc). This has nothing to do with trusting the people in your home.


I'm not sure what you are attempting to protect from.  But if you are concerned that a hacker might get access to the private keys that MultiBit stores, then the only way to protect againast that is to create a bitcoin address on a computer that has never been connected to the internet.  Then store the private key of that address somewhere secure, and create a transaction online sending all your bitcoins to that address.


When you say "key code" I assume you are asking how to get a copy of all the private keys of all the bitcoin addresses in your MultiBit wallet?  This is a question I am also curious about.  I've never sued MultiBit.  Perhaps someone who uses MultiBit regularly will stop by with information on how to export and import private keys?  Otherwise, we could try looking at the MultiBit website and see if they have any information there.

I double this analogy. You look for alternatives only when you are not satisfied with mainstream service.

When I bought my first car (used one), I was pissed off by how badly those workshops rip my money off for basic maintenance. My friend advised my to buy $15 Haynes Mazda book in Borders. This saved me a lot of money. I kept the book in my trunk, and after short practice in my drive way, I could take many things in my car apart.

IMO, same is true with crypto money or any other technology. If you are pissed of by you bank, learn how those alternatives work, spend some effort. Otherwise, just stick to your usual ways.

I don't buy the 'if your parents can't use it it's too complex' argument.  Aside from many parents being quite capable, the idea that if something is complicated nobody will use it is bunk.

You know what's complicated?  Video game controllers, TV remotes (many people have 3 or 4 of them just to watch TV), driving a car, paying your bills, checking email, social networking, the list goes on...  These are all very profitable and successful products, despite their complexity.  People just need to see a benefit to overcome the learning curve.  Even the biggest idiot in the world can strap themselves into a steel and fiberglass cage with wheels and go barreling down a highway at 80 MPH because they see a benefit in being able to travel like that, so they overcome the complexity of learning how to operate a vehicle legally.

The problem isn't the complexity, it is that the benefits aren't clear.  People on Cyprus probably see the benefit of something like bitcoin pretty clearly right now, but most people don't.

I also think that the noob material glosses over the technical details too much, which makes people wary of trusting the currency.  I'm a semester away from a bachelors degree in economics, I actually do understand where traditional currencies come from and their histories and monetary policy and fiscal policy and all of that.  The noob documentation for bitcoin seems written to deliberately obfuscate where the chain blocks come from and the history of the bitcoin and how it all really works.  I'm still wrapping my head around it and when I'm done I plan to study other cryptocurrencies so that I understand this class of currency before I put a dime into it.  I just wish the noob documentation wasn't so dumbed down.

My impression of me reading the noob documentaiton:

FAQ:  Bitcoin is money!  It's free of control from a legitimate government, so you should buy it!
Me:  How is it different from Warcraft gold or Confederate dollars from the American Civil war?
FAQ:  Bitcoin is money!
Me:  Right.  **close browser window, run another search to hopefully find something that wasn't written for kindergartners**

Start here if you want meat rather than fluff when you are trying to understand bitcoin:
http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

(thanks again for that link, deathandtaxes (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=41048)!)

Danny, Thank you. PLEASE don't hate me for asking this ( I know it seems stupid) but I think it will help me wrap my head around it better.

Say your address is: 1AD1PeA41UYrcdtg68jcZoEzHJYTEh5XrZ

What prevents ME from getting into your wallet and taking your bitcoins? Is it because YOU (for example) have the only wallet in existence tied to that address? (as well as the only means of making a key that can access that wallet?)

Having a key means access to the bitcoins tied to that key
&
Having the address means you can only send to that address

Correct?

Thank you

The address is a one-way derivative of the private key (i.e., you can calculate the address from the private key, but not the other way around).
With just the address, all you can do is look on the blockchain and see the amount in that address.
Only someone with the corresponding private key can actually make a valid transaction from that an address.

Smiley & Danny,

At the moment I don't have any BTC so I'm just using words for examples.

Say right now I'm in my Multi-bit Wallet and I have 1 BTC, and I haven't done the "export private key option" yet.

If I want to send my 1 BTC coin to another address...does it just "work"? Or does the program ask for a password/private key for the send to be complete?

Is the "export private key option" only if I want to access my coins at a friend's house on his Multi-bit software for example by using the "import private key" option?

Absence  of Danny's private key, as far as I understand.

When Danny sends btc to somebody, program actually spreads a word around whole bitcoin network, that output address X transfers that much to input address Y. And you can not impersonate Danny, because his word is signed by his private key, which you do not have. AFAIU, cryptographic witchery works this way.
  

It will work when you send it. This is because your instance of Multi-bit is associated with your private key. It will take some time to arrive- at least 5-10 minutes.

The import/export is designed for backup and, yes, to use on another device/machine/environment as in your example.

There is no hate here.  Nobody can understand something until they understand it.  I'll do what I can to help you reach that understanding.


A private key is a really big number that can be represented with 256 binary digits.
Here is an example of a private key:
290,546,074,773,574,840,000

We can represent this same number in hexadecimal as:
E9 87 3D 79 C6 D8 7D C0 FB 6A 57 78 63 33 89 F4 45 32 13 30 3D A6 1F 20 BD 67 FC 23 3A A3 32 62

This exact same number can also be represented in the standard bitcoin Wallet Import Format as:
5Kb8kLf9zgWQnogidDA76MzPL6TsZZY36hWXMssSzNydYXYB9KF

This value can also be represented in Mini Private Key format as:
SzavMBLoXU6kDrqtUVmffv

The three strings of letters and numbers above are just three different ways of representing the exact same 256 bit number.

Using this "private key" with the worldwide standard ECDSA algorithm and the secp256k1 curve we can generate a public key and from there we can generate the bitcoin address:
1CC3X2gu58d6wXUWMffpuzN9JAfTUWu4Kj

Normally, your wallet program takes care of choosing a private key for you and generating the bitcoin address.  The wallet program then stores the private key in a file, and displays the address to you so you can give it to others.  Anyone who is going to send you bitcoins needs to know what bitcoin address to send the bitcoins to.  Most wallets will allow you to have as many bitcoin addresses as you want.  You can generate a new address for every transaction.  The wallet program takes care of keeping track of all the addresses and adding up the total of all bitcoins associated with each address to display a total amount of bitcoins you control.

So, knowing what someone's bitcoin address is allows you to send bitcoins to them.

When you want to send bitcoins somewhere, your wallet program will assign some of the bitcoins that you have received to someone else's address.  To prove that you have the right to re-assign these bitcoins in this way, the bitcoin protocol will require a digital signature that is created using the private key of each address that the bitcoins are being reassigned from.  Since the wallet program is keeping track of the addresses, private keys, and bitcoins for you, it takes care of providing the appropriate digital signature.  Since you (or your wallet) is the ONLY one that has access to the private keys, providing the necessary signature to the bitcoin network is how the bitcoins get spent.

So, knowing the private key that a bitcoin address was generated from allows you to spend all bitcoins that are ever received at that address.

What prevents you from taking my bitcoins is the fact that you don't know the private keys that were used to generate any of my bitcoin addresses.  The wallet program that I use encrypts those private keys with a password.  You don't know my password, so you can't take my bitcoins even if you do get access to my private keys since you need my password to decrypt those private keys.


Yes.

Having a "private key" gives you access to spend/send the bitcoins that are associated with the bitcoin address that was generated from that private key.

Having a bitcoin address means you can reassign some of your own bitcoins to that address.

I think the problem isn't that Bitcoin can't be explained to normal people, it's that so far we've done a bad job at it. Bitcoin is certainly much easier to understand than PayPal, for example.

All you need to know is that you have a wallet on your PC (or in the cloud) that holds your coins, just like a real wallet, and that you can give out your public address to receive money, or send money to someone else's address. Ideally all of the new addresses and transaction details should always be handled by the client software so that people don't have to deal with that stuff.

I don't use MultiBit, so I don't know if MultiBit has any sort of encryption or password protection.  All the wallet programs that I use encrypt my private keys, so they won't send bitcoins unless I supply a password.



The main purpose of exporting private keys is to allow you to rebuild your wallet if it is destroyed. While you could import your private key on a friend's MultiBit at his house, he would then have access to spend your bitcoins.  The bitcoins associated with the bitcoin address that was created from that private key would essentially belong to your friend (as well as any bitcoins that are sent to that address in the future).

For general use of small amounts of bitcoin, I'd agree.

However, if you want to protect your bitcoins from loss due to damage/loss of the computer that you run your wallet on or from theft, then it gets a bit more complicated.  What do you need to back up? How do you restore it?  How can you make sure that malware won't steal your bitcoins?

From Danny: "This exact same number can also be represented in the standard bitcoin Wallet Import Format as:
5Kb8kLf9zgWQnogidDA76MzPL6TsZZY36hWXMssSzNydYXYB9KF"

First off, thank you. I've read your postings several times now. The above in the parenthesis is the "private key code" so to speak.

My big question to anyone (and the one that "scares" me so far because I can't figure it out) is how do I GET that above code (and then how to use it someday if I have to, where do I input that above code) in the event that the computer with my wallet dies, and the private key file from multi-bit goes corrupt. (mywallet.key for example)

I'm searching for a way to have "the backup of all backups"

Thank you a million, billion times everyone

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=multibit+export+private+key

Did you try looking inside the wallet.key file? From what I can tell after Googleing MultiBit the private keys are stored in this file after you export them.

How is that any different than real wallets? People get their credit cards stolen all the time, cloned, swiped, etc.. Not knowing how they work doesn't prevent them from using them.

Funny you should mention cars. I see Bitcoin in line with the internal combustion engine. To me, it's not a protocol but a source of motive power like an engine is.

When the internal combustion engine was invented in the mid-19th century, the old horse traders, carriage makers and buggy whip suppliers either ignored it or made fun of it. Very few of them understood it though. It was high mechanical science in its day and left the dinosaurs in the dust.

The bitcoin engine, like the internal combustion engine, is composed of many moving parts that couldn't have existed until the the perfecting of math and engineering allowed for their existences. The bitcoin engine, like the internal combustion engine, will require the creation of a large surrounding infrastructure to realize its potential use for greater numbers of people.

Every developer/miner/mechanic that tinkers with the Bitcoin engine increases its worth. Every user that spends a bitcoin is revving the engine which only makes it go faster. Every Bitcoin buy puts fuel in the engine. If Bitcoin or something like it becomes a larger and more permanent part of everyday life, the Bitcoin engine of ten years from now will probably be just as different as internal combustion engines were fifty years ago.

I hate to beat an analogy to death so I should stop while the corpse is still recognizable.

 

Hi Danny,

I tried this earlier (I'll change random letters/numbers for protection purposes)
Essentially what I tried was opening the .key file in text editor. This is what came up. I don't know which part would be the private key though? And then if the private key is in here...what I'd do with the text, ya know? Would I just create another .key file and copy/paste into it??

This is what was in the text file of the .key:

U2FsdGaj8Jalot9KcoKJ6lUDpLPil8oNIFZ94rqKaD2eEQpoXo7fCjd9K9jahN73HjkLoTUZ3pHp
3HFhWOGej05+r/2texzsrZyxWgN7/Fh9Bss4GiRt+hjmMel5XVEL

Thank you Danny

When my credit card is stolen, I call the credit card company and I'm not responsible for any of the charges and they send me a new card.

I don't store large amounts of cash in my "real" wallet, I keep most of it in an insured account.

I agree, general use of a bitcoin wallet is like general use of a "real" wallet.  It is fine for small amounts for day-to-day use.  If you are dealing with larger amounts, it becomes important to understand more.

Did you choose to "Password protect export file"?  If so, then what you are looking at is an encrypted copy of the private keys.  You would have to decrypt them to use them.

According to these instructions:
https://multibit.org/help_importingPrivateKeys.html

You can import that file into a new copy of MultiBit and provide the password when you import so it can be decrypted.

If you want to see your actual private keys, you'll probably need to export with "Do not password protect export file" checked.

The internet was way to confusing also.

BitCoin is confusing, because the average user doesn't understand the banking structure that they take for granted. :D

Yes.  Yes!!

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/126331/m-bison-yes-o.gif

Thank you Danny, very much. I'm going to rest my head and then look into it some more. I really appreciate it.

I really have come to the conclusion though that BitCoin won't become widely accepted unless there are legit services like Mt.Gox out there that are web based. The majority aren't going to hassle with downloading these types of software.

Blockchain.info is pretty cool.
I understand how you can send bitcoins back and forth from within it.
I understand how you can email yourself a copy of your wallet.

I see you can exchange your bitcoins for MoneyPak cards? What is this, a way to load up cards and avoid taxes?
Oh man, I'm tired for the night.

Goodnight everyone.

So what I hear you saying is:

"MtGox and blockchain.info exist, but I don't think Bitcoin will become widely accepted until something like MtGox or blockchain.info exist."

???

Right now it's complicated. That's where new programming comes in tied with new hardware innovations. To make it as easy and accessible as a bank account.

Sorry, I'm really tired.
I essentially meant I think BitCoin will only be widely accepted and grow as long as sites like Mt.Gox and Blockchain exist. (and the sites become even more user friendly)

I know this is a WAY different topic, but hopefully popular sites that support Bitcoin won't be targeted by Governments. (For example like how Turkey has been known to block YouTube sometimes, other countries block other websites, etc etc)

In the long run I suspect some early adopters of Bitcoin are going to want to convert some of their coins into USD. If they initially bought the BitCoins for $10,000....but then today they are worth $1 Million and want to "cash out" of Bitcoin...I suspect they'll have Capital Gains Taxes?

BitCoin only seems to have value (in my mind, at least in the beginning of it) if there is a crappy fiat currency to compare it to (USD, EUR, ETC)

If Bitcoin is too confusing for an average person, which it may be. Then, perhaps, an average person shall wait a year or two and come back when 1 BTC worth 10k$. By that time I am sure more polished tools and interfaces and services will be available so that an average person will not be so confused anymore.

Hi Gweedo,

I'm just being honest. I don't see BitCoin succeeding unless there are ways of accessing/using it through internet browsers where you have normal logins and passwords/ability to create easy backups (like Blockchain) etc etc.

Heck I think BitCoin is pretty damn cool, I know a LITTLE more about computers then the average person, and even I don't want to deal with Multi-Bit, Electrum, etc etc. You saw earlier in the thread how confused I was (and still kinda am) even with a lot of time looking into it.

The soccer moms and American Idol crowd won't adopt BitCoin unless there is easy web browser access. It might remove a little of the anonymous factor (but it seems like Blockchain keeps your stuff secretive, right?)...but at least it will be a currency that won't/can't have inflation problems. Right? :)

That is a great comment. Makes perfect sense.
(I can't say for sure I know BitCoin well enough to say it's value in USD will go up that much, but it would be very interesting if it happened)

I may not know everything about BitCoin, but I know people. I know how lazy they are, or set in their ways with their everyday lives and the spheres they are in. Downloading Multi-Bit, etc etc is too much for people. It's not going to catch on mainstream. It has to be web-browser based(or easy to download apps on your phone...I saw there is one for android I think).

The key is to have services like Mt.Gox or Blockchain that are web based AND heavily promote education of offline backups (which are REALLY easy to do on Blockchain I'm happy to say...user friendly) Then if "the big bad gov't" comes in and turns off Blockchain then you're good to go. Or make it mandatory to have a one time backup file for each bitcoin address sent to your avenue of choice (email, dropbox, etc).

To show laziness/unwillingness to try new things:

I work with a Children's Charity, where literally 89% of the money we receive goes to helping children(we're really efficient), yet I literally have to beg people to sponsor a child for a mere 80cents a day in an effort to save his/her life. (in an efficient business way) I also run a business where I can help friends save money on everyday services that they use. Even WHEN I can save them a LOT of money, and they KNOW it would be a favor for them to get their business from me, most never take the time to try something different and help out a friend with a business.

Thanks for reading. Don't think of me as an enemy of Bitcoin. I like Bitcoin. I'm just thinking for mass appeal. It has to have a massive online website based presence for "the masses" to adopt it.

The average person has no idea how fiat money is created,
How the relationship between US treasury, FED, and Banks work,
How the money supply is manipulated,
How currency is controlled by private banks..

If your hoping to get idiots that don't know this stuff into BTC...good luck.

Gweedo,

I honestly don't understand how I'm destroying BitCoin's core values. Can you help me with these two questions?

1. Blockchain will never be able to access my wallet, correct? Even if a Gov't wanted Blockchain to give them access to my wallet, they couldn't, correct?

2. (since I'm still learning) I only need to create a backup of my wallet on Blockchain once, right? If I create a backup in January....and then in June I add 50 Bitcoins to that wallet on the Blockchain website....and then a day later Blockchain get's shut down by the Gov't....I still have those 50 BitCoins on my backup from January, right? Then I can import it into another program like Multi-bit, right?

I'm confused as to why I shouldn't like Blockchain  ???

If you backup, but the government can shut down their servers and you even said people are lazy so you don't have a backup your done. Also you never know the NSA could have a super compter that can break the encryption, you never know, I don't know the exact way blockchain.info stores but if they get shutdown it isn't good.


Depends if you create a new address and send it there then no. If you just use on address, then your anonymity is affected. I don't think they are deterministic wallet.


I saying this in general for all online wallets, but it is hurting network health, it is making people open targets on there wealth if not properly backed up. It is holding a lot of funds which are rising in price, and people are using brute force attacks on looking for people who use alias wallet names and attacking there passwords search the forums. 2FA can save you but then if your not backing up your finished.

Bah. If the NSA can break the encryption, then they can probably break the ECDSA keys and SHA-256 hashes built in to bitcoin.  At that point it no longer matters whether you are using blockchain or not.


Exactly, you can choose.  Re-use addresses for added convenience and loose some anonymity, or use a new address and increase anonymity while loosing some convenience.



Most wallets will work fine for the day-to-day use of small amounts of bitcoin.  Think of it as a wallet, not a bank account.  Sure you can loose a wallet with cash in it, or it can be stolen from you.  You'll be upset, but not devastated.  If you are trying to store larger amounts of cash or for longer periods of time, then you need to start thinking about increasing reliability and security.  You probably wouldn't feel comfortable walking around with 1,000 $100 bills stuffed in your pockets.  You'd look for more secure and reliable ways to transport that money.

I never said the NSA can break the ECDSA or SHA-256 we know that is currently implausible, but what about how blockchain.info is encrypting the wallet. as I said I don't know specifications of that but is certain plausible. 


You know people will use blockchain.info to hold 100's of coins, it will happen, it is already happening. I remember a post where someone had 40k Coins in a instawallet, LIKE SERIOUSLY COME ON... So don't think people will look for more secure ways.

Bitcoin and the services around it are evolving. Simplicity will improve over time.

all i need is the private key to back up my address , do i have to get down my address as well?

Honestly, this is not an invalid issue. However, I think a lot of this is the demeanor of folks, not the technical issues. Just taking a patient attitude with people who are interested but confused. Occasionally, some ppl in the Bitcoin community can sound like cultists when explaining bitcoin to people, so I think telling people it's a financial opportunity that you can get on the ground floor of, while not trying to say it's going to replace the US dollar (even if it eventually might), is a better way to go about it, for a lot of ppl. You've got to play to the audience your talking to.

I guess I'm rambling here, but not everyone out there is a libertarian, but bitcoin is a currency that ideally should be for everyone, so sometimes you just have to play up the strengths of Bitcoin differently.

My Mom was trying to throw USD at me today to get a buy in on MtGox.  I still have 0 oh wait .0009 NMC=0 lol.  I guess we both are up the BTC creek lol.

Ps my spamming question is

I just set up my new eBayed Mac Pro and put in a 5770 and have Bitminter running @149ish Mh/s.  My question is should I put the old Radeon 1xxx back in slot 2 even though bitMinter wouldn't recognize it?  I've been trying to run DiabloMiner on osX.7.4 to no avail.  Any thoughts would be swell.   PS I just drank the BFL 30Gh/s juice and don't care tee hee.

Besides all the problems pointed out in this thread i think general terminology can be quite confusing...ex: just in this thread ive seen 3 ways of using account/publickeys/address. These all mean the same thing, right ? how about more standardized lingo...

Since bitcoin.org was made to suck more, I made my site suck less. Please review the sections on "Bitcoin addresses" and "The Wallet" to see if that clarifies some of the terms.

http://we.lovebitco.in/

Bitcoin is very dangerous for average person. So many computers are compromised and there is no protection once the coins are transfered. So better for average person stick with fiat and enjoy protection.

Really?  Traditional currencies never get stolen?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnf5l71CFm1qeaiedo1_500.gif

I think we're having the first "victim" of the new bitcoin.org site which promotes the MultiBit client in first place.

oops, just checked again, it doesn't anymore, alright then

No.

Bitcoin doesn't have "accounts".

Some service providers (such as MtGox or Coinbase) may provide you with an account where (like a bank account) you turn over control of your bitcoin to them and call on them to send it when you desire.  In this case they may provide you with one of their bitcoin addresses that you can use to send bitcoins to the account you have with them.

A bitcoin public key is not the same thing as a bitcoin address.

A bitcoin address is created from a public key through a process that includes 2 hashing algorithms and a 32-bit checksum.

If you know the public key, you can calculate the bitcoin address, but if all you have is the bitcoin address, then it is impossible to calculate the public key.

The checksum that is built into the bitcoin address prevents you from accidentally sending bitcoins to the wrong person if you make a typo while entering it.


The lingo is rather standardized already.  You ust happen to be unfamiliar with the standardized lingo.

;D

I dont know how everything in my car works yet I can drive it and its useful.
I dont know how email servers functions yet I send email often.
I dont know how this forum functions yet I can use it easily.

(actually I do know most of these things as I am a server admin and work on my own cars but you get the point)

- S M I L Y


Noob post #3!

I cannot disagree. However, I do wish I had looked at this forum (and at the very simple "fast start" instructions on bitcoin.com) before I pushed ahead and bought bitcoins for cash on one site and then for SLL on another!

I have spent a lot of time on this this week--just so I could fund an account on SWC and play poker--and I am still in an unknown (to me) waiting period waiting for my first transactions to process. And now SWC is down!!!

I have annoyed operators of at least 3 sites trying to clarify the process--and to get some idea of when my transactions should clear--and about all I have learned as that I have to wait 48 hours for one site, 4 days for another, and who knows how long for the third before 1) my cash purchase will be verified (they did relieve my bank account of the necessary funds, thanks) and 2) my poker account will receive the bitcoins I asked be sent to them (though that bitcoin wallet has been debited for the bicoins I sent, thanks).

Participants in this universe need to take some huge steps towards securing the trust of new users or bitcoins will never thrive. There are just too many reasons for sensible people to say "no"--if they rely on careless fools like me the empire will never go over the top!