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Can't wait for the dump. When he dumps your ETC shitcoinage you deserve all you get for supporting a thief, and promoting theft.

There will be blood.

Double Standards much? I heard the Eth Foundation Members also hold a truck-load of ETH that could be dumped any time.

Satoshi is dead.

They're hardly going to dump on their own project, whereas we know exactly the immorality of the attacker. Honestly do some people never engage their brains around here?

Sadly but it is the hard truth. ETC will be supporting these thieves by running under the original chain (before the hard fork) I don't know what is causing the massive pump into ETC, but I think that it will be over very soon. Maybe it's the hype, or perhaps I'm wrong?  ::)

The ETC DAO guy played by the rules...the DAO investors had fair warning and took risks

I see nothing wrong with this. The ETC 10% guy was smarter so what.

I kinda feel ETC is more trust worthy than ETH as it did not hard fork

+ consensus = sorry what?
+ guy deserves his reward.

tough break for ETHF lovers, but it's hardly made a dent in your ohh so long-term chart of like 11 months, $1bil market cap script.
...2 will likley co-exist for some time, get used to it.

Proven false.

http://themerkle.com/ethereum-developer-vitalik-buterin-sold-25-of-his-coins/

Only 75% left to go!


Indeed.

yeah, ETH doesnt have this right? free of whales.

That would be funny if the DAO attacker became the Satoshi of ETC.  Seems highly unlikely but this is crypto so you never know.

Why are you so angry if some people in the community want to support the original Ethereum classic? You do not have to scare them because they are aware of everything that is happening. They were not born yesterday. Maybe you are doing this to make yourself feel better? That is very therapeutic especially in times where you are in panic and anxious. But relax. So Vitalik made mistakes, so what? Everything will be good in the end for both the original Ethereum classic and the Ethereum fork.

He is the Satoshi of ETC. What makes you think he will dump? :D

If I were him, I would publicly release a contract to release the majority of holdings as mining rewards over time. This would allow him to keep the rest, while providing additional incentive to secure ETC rather than ETH.

The attacker? I thought code was law.

We have a winner!

I would say lets dump all classic and new, it's not  something we can trust they can do whatever they want while people who bought some eth might get dumped on and simply lose their money.

You can dump yours if you want. But as people it is better to leave everyone with their own decisions. Win or lose it is your decision alone.

That is exactly what I was thinking of. Probably they will dump theirs on ETC to crash the price.
It is not in the interest of the DAO attacker to hurt ETC.

I think a more likely scenario is trading the ETC for ETH and using that to crash the ETH price

I thought the DAO attacker drained 3.6 million ETC, that is 3.5% of all the ETC. That is not 10% you mentioned.

Personally I think that what the devs are doing with the hardfork is far worse than what the "thief" did. They've basically turned the blockchain into a kind of toy - monopoly money - by cherry picking what contracts to rub out. Whichever side one takes though, I don't think a blockchain can ever be the same after it's been hardforked for the express purpose of wiping out a piece of history.

What is particularly concerning is this: A smart contract platform like Ethereum has the purpose of bringing together disparate parties in a technology layer that is independent of the blockchain itself. It is not the blockchain's job to take a view on who's a good and who's a bad actor. Nor is it its problem that the DAO was overvalued. By neutralising the events of this particular contract, the developers have transferred the cost from those who took the risk to those who didn't - i.e. they've "socialised" the risk of the DAO investors who should have taken the full hit.

Very bad.

Here's some more thoughts: https://steemit.com/ethereum/@toknormal/the-ethereum-circle-dance-more-conscious-than-it-looks

To OP, read this carefully please, and comment what you understand here:

The DAO bugfinder (which you unjustly call "the thief", he played by the rules that were written on the ethereum and DAO website: the code is the law) has 10% of ETC.  But 90% if the ETC is held by people that had ETH from before the fork.  Their dumping is much more dangerous than that meager 10%.  On the other hand, you've got 30% or so of probably very disappointed DAO bagholders on the ETH chain.  Aren't you affraid they'll be looking for the door as quickly as they can ?  

Yeah that would most likely happen. In fact, today the price has been declining being worth $1.44 by now. I guess that the hype is now over, and soon the community and ETH will be back together as one. In my opinion, ETC would give the hacker access to investors funds (from The Dao) which will most likely cause them to dump the ETC and give a negative effect in price. I think that is why we are seeing the price decline today. Anybody can correct me if I'm wrong.  ::)

Hey can someone inform the Ethereum bailout foundation? They have some typos on their website:

I don't think you quite understood ROT13's scenario.

Far from crashing ETC, the ETC/ETH pairing that has emerged around many exchanges has given the hacker a route out of ETC and into ETH with minimal impact on the BTC denominated markets of either coin.

For example they could quietly sit in this market (https://poloniex.com/exchange#eth_etc) and swap currencies which would give the hacker approx 360,000 ETH at current exchange rate. Probably enough to kindle a minor avalanche given the current levels of confidence (assuming ETH itself were their ultimate target).

ETH devs basically said if we don't like a contract/transaction we can and will replace them


 Not like if real life you can just go back in time cuz you fucked up and spent money that you shouldn't. The hard fork is and was a bad idea. Support ETC all the way

How much is under control of the Blackhat DAO vs. the Whitehat DAO? Weren't some of the hijacked childDAOs further split by the "Robin Hood" group? Can't find much on where all the DAO tokens are at this moment.

I think ETC is a major opportunity. I was mining within hours of the fork, buying OTC and buying on Polo the hour it added markets. ETH Foundation screwed up bad, and bitcoiners are reacting positively to the core ethos of ETC.

Hell, Barry Silbert said today he has upped his stake in ETC, and that he moved 5% of all his BTC holdings into ETC! ETC ain't going nowhere, folks! :D

You are correct, ETC is going nowhere. Fast.

Yes. That is a very interesting development. This will add to the public's confidence on the original Ethereum classic. It also means he knows something deeper about it to make such a move. So with him on board I believe that the original chain is here to stay to compete with Vitalik's fork.

Exactly.  It's hard to imagine the hackers motive was purely financial given the difficulties in cashing out without crashing ETH. 

Now we have a scenario where he could quite possibly crash the price of ETH, retain some ETC which would likely skyrocket in value in correspondence, destroy the credibility of the forked ethereium and therefore provide an ideological justification for his right to retain and spend the remaining ETC funds- all in one fell swoop. 

Theft != truth.

Would it be theft if Vitalik Buterin put an open brief case of cash on a dark street corner and someone who found it decided to keep it?

Are you going to buy some ETC to show your support or will you buy some mining hash to support the ETC network?

Yes, it's called 'theft by finding' and you can and will be prosecuted.

A thief will always be a thief no matter how hard you try to justify it. It's no wonder this world is fucked with immoral characters like yourself walking amongst us.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding

What if the law explicitly says it's not a theft?

Math is hard, when your name is Minecache.

I'm sure he'll update the OP with your correction, any minute now....

*crickets*

*skeleton.gif*

And Eth will always be forked shit no matter  how hard you try to justify it. No wonder crypto is fucked with characters like you amongst us

its become panic sell on the market, i waited it too. hmm maybe i thinking i will buy some some  ;D and wait for the rate up and sell it to get profit  ;D

Indeed, if we look at the history of bitcoin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337.msg6289796#msg6289796

we have an idea of how many times ETH will fork again :-)

You do realize the devs of ETH hold an equally damning stake? Essentially, this coin is too heavily held by certain actors to make either one of these coins a stable or safe investment at the moment. Unless you are looking for risk (with it's profit of course) I wouldn't touch either of these.

forking to improve the protocol is fine. the problem is when forking to bailout investors or change how contracts where developed.

You should have clicked on the link... it is not bitcoin forking...

If the DAO attacker wants to dump his coins to us, he needs to pump up ETC for a sustained period of time to sell at the best price.
I don't think he will let ETC fail so quickly. I am sure 'good news' will be released so that the attacker can dump his coins when people start to buy.

the "attacker "cant tie his own shoelaces without his mommy , yes lets wait in agony what the amateur criminal is gonna do

Yeah... right.. you are living in a fantasy world if you believe that this particular attacker is not very sophisticated. 

He may not have been completely successful in accomplishing his original objective(s) - unless he just wanted to expose an exploit hole.  In any event, he employed interesting tactics and has caused a pretty big ruckus in the crypto community, even if he happened to have accomplished such from his mom's basement, which really does not seem to be the case with this particular attacker.

So is Vitalik. He buried is own grave when he acted as a central banker by doing a rollback to get funds back from someone that didn't do anything but use the smart contract. He didn't steal, he used the existing smart contract code. The fair thing should have been to let the DAO fall, but no, they were too greedy. Now Ethereum is dead thanks to that. You can stay in denial all you want tho. No one is going to trust "smart contracts" that can end up in a rollback.

Vitalik did not implement the hard fork. The miners agree to hard fork the chain and they use the mining to do that.

It started when he got involved with the DAO. He trusted the slock.it developers to produce solid code. Why did also were not they strict with the security audits? He has only himself to blame.

This. The callousness of youth. I have to think someone a bit more experienced in finance, and less in code, would have seen the importance of security and proper functioning code. In fact, when the 'code is the law', shouldn't you take the time to make sure the code is beyond reproach?

And the final insult? The flaw was known..

No I'm not. But you are welcome to.

My point has nothing to do with my investing in ETC.

Stick a fork in Vitalik and VitalikCoin.  They're done.


lol rekt

Emerging evidence shows Team Vitalik planned in advance to use replay attacks to steal an amount of ETC sufficient to destroy the original chain with market dumps.

Expect the legal discovery process to reveal exactly how Coinbase and BETH Foundation conspired to obtain by force/fraud ETC and use them to destroy the original chain via socioeconomic attacks.

This is still escalating and I predict the peak will be Vitalik stepping down from the foundation and the development team. After that we will see the original chain live on and the fork will die because no one will be mining it anymore. All the start ups and companies will not touch the Ethereum fork with a 100 foot pole. It is possible that Vitalik's career in crypto is over after this. Sorry he is not cypherpunk level.

It would be a easy way out for him. By the way do Canada extradite their citizens? Or maybe he got a PR in Switzerland.

Heads must roll, and responsibility flows uphill.  Accountability for the Bailout's consequences cannot be evaded, only diffused.

The DAOsaster isn't the reason why VB must step down.

Rather it was VB's leadership in the conspiratorial|hubristic|catastrophic reaction to The DAOsaster which entails a scalp being redeemed for bounty.

https://soundcloud.com/worldcryptonet/ethereum-a-classic-tale-of-two-chains

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1XiAwSpXbI

Chris Ellis' testimony cuts Team VB to ribbons, and many suspect worse, even more damning revelations still to come.

what makes you guys think the thief hasn't dumped already?

ETC's volume the past few days is way above 10% of all coins.

I can't wait too for the dump. The price is gonna be so low ;D ... And guess what, after that we will have a non forked coin with nothing to hold it back.

Yeah right.  You are pie in the sky thinking if you believe this matter is going to resolve with such supposed smoothness.

Not the same.  Although the attacker has incentive to push the chain forward he already made it clear if it was on ETH he would have dumped it as soon as his coins became available from DAO.. so that shows his willingness of participating in an open market without regard to price and how it will affect the long term chart. With ETC he may have changed his mind but im sure at some point when he dumps it will be different than VB's thinking of "needing" to "distribute" some because he had to pay for expenses (im sure he doesn't have a day job)... and he also told people he was selling. I spoke with him on Skype and he felt he needed people to know but I told him next time to distribute slowly and not tell anyone.. although they will find out later anyway... 75% is still a big stake.

It would be better for Vitalik to step down and let someone else take over as lead developer. The problem is who is willing to take over? No one. The sane minds who are willing to work with the technology would be rather joining the original Ethereum classic. I do not know how long Vitalik and his friends can stay for long denying the truth about themselves and the situation.

If the DAO attacker dumps the ETC then the price of ETC will most likely skyrocket. The ETC will be freed. The threat of dumping is more powerful than the execution

Then it will be a problem for Bitcoin (assuming he changes the ETC into BTC)

Or is there somewhere one can change that many ETC into fiat?

No replacement for VB is a feature, not a bug.

That feature of ETC is precisely why I invested.

ETC should be decentralized and leaderless like BTC, lacking not only a governance structure but the possibility/feasibility of one as well.

Devs who govern least govern best.

VB should signal his intention to begin extricating himself from the flaming quagmire of conflicting interests and morass of hubris in which he's presently entombed.

and exactly why bitshares is dead and steem has its pump (which is probably done) and soon to be dead too?

Vitalik is just a proposer for some new ideas. The miners and wide community decides if they want to accept the proposal.

lol @ the anti-logic of ETC holders. Yes, a massive sell-off will cause the price to skyrocket, because that has happened ever in a market before...

There is massive sell off now, the trading volume is 25% of the all the ETC. But you can also call that masive buying as the price is rising.

Well, there are currently 82mil tokens and 11.5mil in the dao. The hacker owns 3.5mil ether for now, 8 mil more to be stolen, that's 15% of the total. DAO on this abandoned chain is wild west, "whitehats" won't be as motivated to return the tokens, why would they. It is their right to keep them on this abandoned chain.
Ofc there's a sell off, people are dumping on whale's pump. Mark my words, if people will exit before the whale, and they proven they already do that since the price is increasing too slow compared to pump size, this will end up the biggest whale pump & dump fail in crypto history, it'll lose alot of money. But it doubt it has the $/btc to buy that many tokens, let alone increasing the price too much.

Hahahhaha, the white hat business is visibly very lucrative in ethereum land :-)

Of course the price will go down at first, but after that we will have the original ether chain with no "stolen" funds.

the entire problem was that the attacker had a large amount of ether. Once he/she dumps then will will have one pure ether chain and one that has been compromised by the unnecessary hard fork.

The price of the original untainted chain will skyrocket

There will be blood coming out the ears of people like you who had a chance but missed the train and in turn got their butt hurt  :-\

sweet sweet 5x my investment and rising.

Why would any eth shill/holder bother shit talking etc?

They're sitting pretty. Whichever side triumphs means they triumph too.

Sit back and enjoy the ride while counting your insane riches.

Problem is, these ETC shills are fooling people into buying worthless tokens. And no, ETC cannot win. ETH foundation is close to solving scalability, which is biggest thing since blockchain invention so far.

First, monero did so already, and second, I don't see ethereum in both forms needing scalability for the moment.  Finally, if the ETH guys really do something great, what would stop ETC from copying that ?

I think the biggest next problem facing ETH is the PoS switch.   PoS is inherently unsafe, because in order to decide on what chain to use, you inherently look *in that chain* to see who has what stake.   This allows a miner to do over the whole PoW past chain on his ease, taking all the time (say, three years) it takes, assigning himself a high stake in doing so, and then using his own "proof of stake" in his fake chain to overtake the real chain.

Most miners need to agree.. how is it different than pow and bitcoin? It isnt.

Etc is a copy like ltc was with btc. It may hold some value but shouldnt be as much as eth.

With PoS, there is no PoW any more, and "miner" becomes an empty notion.  If you have stake, you have a probability to mine a block, and you don't have to spend any effort on it.    In a pure (from genesis block) PoS system, the genesis block miner is master, because he's holding 100% of stake for the first blocks, so nobody can redo the chain apart from the genesis block miner.  Only later, when the original stake holders start to exchange coins, other people start to get a stake, and can mine blocks too, and obtain new coins.

In a PoW system, everybody can mine blocks, but it costs work.

Ethereum is a PoW system that will switch to a PoS system.  As such, to be able to make a whole new chain from the genesis block onward, one should first re-do all the PoW that has accumulated in the chain.  That is an awful lot of work, but if you can do that over several years, it is feasible.  With a genuine PoW chain, that doesn't help, because after all these years, the real chain has accumulated even more PoW.   But not a chain that has switched to PoS.  The amount of PoW in that chain is finite, and stops essentially when you switch to PoS.  So if you redo the entire chain up to that point, giving yourself a lot of stake, from that point on, you are the master of the chain.  At a certain point, that chain can be made public, and replace the original, real chain, and it should be recognized as valid by most nodes.

Clearly you don't understand that all ETH hodlers have an equal amount of ETC held on the criminal coins chain. Not super smarts are you.

I know...
People must react; perhaps it's why divide and conquer works so well.

Gotta love the taste of those salty ETH bagholders tears.
Blood will be spilled indeed, but not the way the OP assumes it will.

It is difficult to say if the ETH will drop below the ETC. I think it is better not to own something the hacker can influence the price.

You do realise that all ETH hodlers own an equal amount of ETC criminal coins? You do understand that, right? You do understand that most basic of premises, correct? The most simplest of concepts, yeah? You understand Noddy?

Mmm, moar yummy salty tears from Minecrash!

You do realize ETH holders already

A. Lost their ETC due to scam exchanges like BTC-E and Coinbase being replayed,

or

B. Already dumped their ETC in futile attempts to discourage the project, and Because FREE MONEY LOL!

Looks like your criminal coins nonsense you spew over and over again is not catching on in the community. Keep at it, fun to watch.

Vitalik said he will not develop for ETC even if it comes out as a winner in terms of price and mining power... so that seriously discourages big investors in ETC... the only buyers left are small fish in crypto community trying to prop up the price to try to distribute as fast as they can before it comes crashing down.

Should be fun to watch as always.

How will he do that ?  Ethereum stops being open source ?

Good, ETC is better off without proven liabilities like Chancellor Butarin and Tool.

Sure he will and etc is free to copy and it will be valued like a copy cloned project

Yes. Vitalik as I said has only created his own problems. Why did they not study the hard fork well and long enough. They already knew this scenario will happen and this is exactly what the bitcoin core development team has been avoiding that is why they do not want a hard fork. Very irresponsible and not to mention really stupid of Vitalik. I have lost my faith in him. He is not a genius. He is but a child that should be seen and not heard.

Utterly disrespectful to all Vitaliks hard work. Not to worry as ETC criminal coin has the likes of you to continue developing it. Oh yes I forgot, you can't develop shit. Gud luck with that.

it is certainly an interesting situation with the two chains going on at the same time. i love watching some kind of a civil war happening in crypto world between the two chains and try to make the best profit out of this situation :D

1) Eth didn't have network affect yet
2) What have you done that you should be heard?
3) They had bigger problems by not forking.. the attacker made that clear. see #1

I get it. But at this point so early it may come out as a blessing especially if they come out with some governance tools and technology to stop this kind of thing from happening... besides it was up to the miners anyway to choose the chain they wanted and they chose...

In the next few weeks, when the DAO hacker gets hold of the 3.6 million hacked coin, it will be very interesting.

So much for respecting the voice of the masses.  ::)
There are serious big investors with principles, who might still back ETC.

That is quite irony. The person who hacked the Ethereum does not like ETH. How can he like the ETC?

When will the hacker be able to dump his ETC?

reading can't see anything valuable in Dao yet. But there were a million$ attack? What attack the attacker the exchange?

I heard by the end of August, the hacker can dump his coins. But he might have already shorted, the price is dropping now.

Foundation members could dump on any coin because every coin has foundation members

Only ETC do we specifically know that there is a bad actor out for their own profit without care for the ecosystem

you cant short etc

Haha, let he dump to 0.0001, and I can be all-in this, and then huge pump again by noobs.

lol thats not how it works

Sounds gud like you'll be the noob.

If the price of ETC drops to 1% of the ETH, basically it is a dead coin as nobody will develop on the ETC.

Why? I don't understand you, am i noob as well? LMAO

the pump of dao is never going to happen also the eth is not going to be pumped either, in my opinion only etc has the future from now on

If the DAO hacker returns the ETC to the original holders, it will have some future, otherwise, it is a dead scam coin.

well i hope that it will be dumped too, it is just a criminal coin that has no future, eth for the win, its price is going to grow a lot so im buying it now

If someone is clever enough to steal coins, I do not think he/she is stupid to ruin the coin by dumping all at once. ETC have better future than ETH.

I'm so sick of hearing this myth.. Dumping 10% of supply will not 'ruin' or destroy a coin. It would cause a temporary dip in price. And then most likely a rush would ensue as people realize the bearish threat of a dump is over.

I think it would be brilliant if the hacker would decide to spread all the coins over the current ETC holders.......

worse idea instead. he can keep it to himself instead. he could act like satoshi this time. no one knows him yet very known to all bitcoin users.
this hacker is going to be the most revolutionary in the crypto world.

LOL

Not to mention that a dump would be the most visible way to exchange the funds and any half intelligent person would do 5 to 10 smaller transactions each time the price is at high. Its liek everyone assumes the DAO hacker is retarded.

Given the recent development in the ETH camp concerning the white hat DAO coin cache, I think it would be more appropriate to fear a dump from the freaking ETH Foundation instead of the 'attacker'.

Well, would be appropriate. The coins are in jail now. Now the supply is restricted, and I feel like that's the opposite of a good thing for the ETH camp.

That went well.

Heh.  That would be the ultimate act of crypto-drama!   8)

And it's more likely than you think, because ETH vs ETC is a battle for the soul and future of smart contracts.

The Architect is not happy with Team Bailout:

I dont get why he said that.. in the end miners can choose whenever they want.

Whats the difference with that and say the usa coeercing the github pushers of bitcoin that they must rollback every tx from 2010? Its up to the miners which fork they choose and ultimately become the stronger and subsequently the right network.

That is true. The Ethereum Foundation and a Chinese company had loads of the ETC. They might dump when the price is high.

the huge pump is definitely going to happen pretty soon, the price is really low right now and after the pump the price is not going to go down

As long as the DAO hacker holds the 3.6 million ETC, the ETC price will not rise too much. If donates it to the development, then the price might rise.

He has not hacked them to then donate to them. The market will have a crash in the near future, well that is what I'm hoping for to be honest.

If that is the case, there is a up limit of the ETC price. It could be around $2 in the near future. It might also crash.

I would prefer it to crash briefly to be honest. It won't last that long before it gets back on track then that is not looming over project moving forward.

You might be right. The ETC price could drop quite a lot when the Ethereum Foundation and big holders start to dump.