Bitcoin Forum

Other => Off-topic => Topic started by: momagic on March 25, 2013, 02:12:47 PM



Title: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: momagic on March 25, 2013, 02:12:47 PM
Which is better for energy consumption vs profit?

All these guys growing weeds for sale of the Blackmarket should just mine, no?

One is legal the other not.

Grow lights, pots+plants, plant food costs a lot probably the same as a diy mining rig.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: grantbdev on March 25, 2013, 03:02:52 PM
Which is better for energy consumption vs profit?

All these guys growing weeds for sale of the Blackmarket should just mine, no?

One is legal the other not.

Grow lights, pots+plants, plant food costs a lot probably the same as a diy mining rig.

It would be funny to see which would end up getting you more BTC: selling weed on Silk Road vs. mining Bitcoins.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: joulesbeef on March 25, 2013, 03:06:58 PM
but you cant smoke bitcoin


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: herzmeister on March 25, 2013, 03:33:05 PM
can't we do both at once? we need glowing miners.  :)


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: matt608 on March 25, 2013, 05:08:41 PM
but you cant smoke bitcoin

You could always set fire to your computer and inhale the fumes.

 :D


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: GambitBTC on March 25, 2013, 05:22:31 PM
Ya, growing weed is way more profitable if done properly lol.

Illegal? Yes, but indeed wayyyy more profitable.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: momagic on March 25, 2013, 07:06:15 PM
True say, but the risks are well, too risky. lol.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: MysteryMiner on March 25, 2013, 07:10:51 PM
Quote
Grow lights, pots+plants, plant food costs a lot probably the same as a diy mining rig.
In some areas you just need to plant the hemp, it will grow naturally.
Quote
It would be funny to see which would end up getting you more BTC: selling weed on Silk Road vs. mining Bitcoins.
Without weed Bitcoins would not be worth anything at all.
Quote
but you cant smoke bitcoin
Yes, You can smoke Bitcoin. My friends only got interested in bitcoins after I told that they can buy ganja with bitcoins. Before that they did not get the point of yet another internet payment system.
Quote
Ya, growing weed is way more profitable if done properly lol
If the Bitcoin price rises quicker than weed can be grown, the end result might be that mined bitcoins are worth more than grown and sold weed.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: farlack on March 25, 2013, 09:00:26 PM
20 plants 1st harvest = $10k
Total year profit =  $30k

Considering you have the setup, and solar panels.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: GambitBTC on March 25, 2013, 10:45:16 PM
If the Bitcoin price rises quicker than weed can be grown, the end result might be that mined bitcoins are worth more than grown and sold weed.
[/quote]

If your one of the first ASIC miners maybe.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: tkbx on March 26, 2013, 12:43:34 AM
Which is better for energy consumption vs profit?

All these guys growing weeds for sale of the Blackmarket should just mine, no?

One is legal the other not.

Grow lights, pots+plants, plant food costs a lot probably the same as a diy mining rig.

A plant can bring in anywhere from $500 to $4,000, depending on the species, quality, and size, according to various sources. A very lucky, expensive rig can bring in $7,000/year with the current difficulty. Add the power costs of Bitcoin mining being almost double that of an indoor grow op, and the evil, baby-murdering nature of the pot trade still brings a better profit than hashing data (as long as you've got at least two plants). It's practically a law of physics, if it's illegal (or immoral, in some cases), it's bound to bring in more money.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: grue on March 26, 2013, 12:46:49 AM
but you cant smoke bitcoin

You could always set fire to your computer and inhale the fumes.

 :D
inhale those private keys


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: 01BTC10 on March 26, 2013, 12:47:37 AM
No doubt that growing weed is more profitable in most jurisdiction. Then you can sell the crop for BTC and hold.  8)


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on March 26, 2013, 12:57:58 AM
Depends on the hash rate.

Pre-order today from Bogart Fatty Leaf, Inc., to be in queue for the next harvest.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: 01BTC10 on March 26, 2013, 01:18:49 AM
I don't want to do the complete math but I can tell you this :

Average indoor yield is between 0.5g to 1.5g per watt of lightning every 60 days depending on genetic, technique and experience. Usual lamp are 1000W high pressure sodium light.

Calculate initial investment cost, maintenance cost and market value. Highly profitable but comes with high stress level.



Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: momagic on March 26, 2013, 01:22:41 AM
I don't want to do the complete math but I can tell you this :

Average indoor yield is between 0.5g to 1.5g per watt of lightning every 60 days depending on genetic, technique and experience. Usual lamp are 1000W high pressure sodium light.

Calculate initial investment cost, maintenance cost and market value. Highly profitable but comes with high stress level.



bolded for truth


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on March 26, 2013, 01:26:24 AM
I don't want to do the complete math but I can tell you this :

Average indoor yield is between 0.5g to 1.5g per watt of lightning every 60 days depending on genetic, technique and experience. Usual lamp are 1000W high pressure sodium light.

Calculate initial investment cost, maintenance cost and market value. Highly profitable but comes with high stress level.


bolded for truth


How stressful is it for cultivating shrooms?


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: momagic on March 26, 2013, 01:48:32 AM
I don't want to do the complete math but I can tell you this :

Average indoor yield is between 0.5g to 1.5g per watt of lightning every 60 days depending on genetic, technique and experience. Usual lamp are 1000W high pressure sodium light.

Calculate initial investment cost, maintenance cost and market value. Highly profitable but comes with high stress level.


bolded for truth


How stressful is it for cultivating shrooms?

I've never had the opportunity to actually have one even tough it was legal in the UK


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: GambitBTC on March 26, 2013, 01:51:07 AM
I don't want to do the complete math but I can tell you this :

Average indoor yield is between 0.5g to 1.5g per watt of lightning every 60 days depending on genetic, technique and experience. Usual lamp are 1000W high pressure sodium light.

Calculate initial investment cost, maintenance cost and market value. Highly profitable but comes with high stress level.


bolded for truth


How stressful is it for cultivating shrooms?

I've never had the opportunity to actually have one even tough it was legal in the UK

Cultivating mush is harder, but faster.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: MysteryMiner on March 26, 2013, 10:04:48 AM
I have not checked hemp seed prices recently. Where I can get decent and cheap outdoor seeds, except darknet shops? I used the seeds from ganja purchased locally, but now the local market have shifted to synthetic cannabis like Spice that obviously have no seeds. It is very hard to find weed that have live seeds in it.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: 01BTC10 on March 26, 2013, 10:32:18 AM
I have not checked hemp seed prices recently. Where I can get decent and cheap outdoor seeds, except darknet shops? I used the seeds from ganja purchased locally, but now the local market have shifted to synthetic cannabis like Spice that obviously have no seeds. It is very hard to find weed that have live seeds in it.
Hemp has low THC content and it's only suitable for food, fibre or fuel. If you are looking for cannabis with high THC content, here is a list of reputed seed banks : http://www.cannabisculture.com/seeds


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: GambitBTC on March 26, 2013, 10:58:09 AM
I have not checked hemp seed prices recently. Where I can get decent and cheap outdoor seeds, except darknet shops? I used the seeds from ganja purchased locally, but now the local market have shifted to synthetic cannabis like Spice that obviously have no seeds. It is very hard to find weed that have live seeds in it.


That spice will rot your mouth and brain.

Nobody should ever smoke incense. Period.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: MysteryMiner on March 26, 2013, 02:49:25 PM
Quote
Hemp has low THC content and it's only suitable for food, fibre or fuel.
I call sometimes marijuana hemp because it is basically a hemp. It is like different varieties of tomato.
That spice will rot your mouth and brain.

Nobody should ever smoke incense. Period.
I fully agree with this. Incense is total crap, I better sniff glue than ever do this shit. But many people prefer to get 1 gram of Spice for 4$ than 1 gram of average quality weed for 22$. And Spice was legal and openly sold in shops until recently they got banned. Not all schoolkids could afford to buy the real thing or knew the dealers.

This is example how prohibition affects society in bad way. If they were smoking good quality weed they would not do too much damage to themselves. Now with Spice and similar crap they got brain damage and degenerate personality. And the effects of later "legal" versions of incense have nothing in common to ganja.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: farlack on March 26, 2013, 09:19:24 PM
Quote
Hemp has low THC content and it's only suitable for food, fibre or fuel.
I call sometimes marijuana hemp because it is basically a hemp. It is like different varieties of tomato.
That spice will rot your mouth and brain.

Nobody should ever smoke incense. Period.
I fully agree with this. Incense is total crap, I better sniff glue than ever do this shit. But many people prefer to get 1 gram of Spice for 4$ than 1 gram of average quality weed for 22$. And Spice was legal and openly sold in shops until recently they got banned. Not all schoolkids could afford to buy the real thing or knew the dealers.

This is example how prohibition affects society in bad way. If they were smoking good quality weed they would not do too much damage to themselves. Now with Spice and similar crap they got brain damage and degenerate personality. And the effects of later "legal" versions of incense have nothing in common to ganja.

Hemp and marijuana are two different things. Its like raisins and graps you cant make grape juice with a raisin, and you cant get stoned off of hemp.

As for the incense, most people are not smoking spice because they prefer it over weed, they smoke spice because they are on probation, or their job drug tests.

There isn't any proof spice is "bad" for you.. obviously anything you put in your body isn't good.. but there isn't proof spice is dangerous.
You read news and hear things about people dying from smoking spice, they don't get the point out spice didn't kill them, but what they did while smoking did. Such as the news article in my local probation officer... teen dies from smoking spice with a home made plastic bowl.

Well what killed him.. spice.. or plastic?
plastic.


Or teen dies after smoking spice.... and driving his car 120 mph into a house.

Did spice kill him? Or his irresponsible driving..


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: 01BTC10 on March 26, 2013, 09:24:08 PM
Quote
Hemp and marijuana are two different things. Its like raisins and graps you cant make grape juice with a raisin, and you cant get stoned off of hemp.
He's not wrong. I studied botanic and they both are the exact same plant (only the genome differ) : Cannabis sativa. There is also Cannabis indica and Cannabis ruderalis but it's like comparing black and white human and saying they are not the same species : Homo sapiens.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: Frequency on March 26, 2013, 09:25:49 PM

The only thing when you make money regardless trough mining or growing..





u need a wife that doesn't spend ...period..




Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: MysteryMiner on March 26, 2013, 10:25:57 PM
Quote
As for the incense, most people are not smoking spice because they prefer it over weed, they smoke spice because they are on probation, or their job drug tests.
Probation is bad animal in USA and probably not much can be done about it, but I cannot imagine legal reason how employer can force worker to take drug tests. It is like taking polygraph test every day just to check You have not murdered someone last night. If person is drunk he is not allowed to drive the bus, but I never seen actually anybody to crash a car or saw off his hands with chainsaw while under weed. I know people who take smoke to make night shifts at sawmill less boring and no accident so far. But the drunkards regularly have the fingers cut off.
Quote
Hemp and marijuana are two different things. Its like raisins and graps you cant make grape juice with a raisin, and you cant get stoned off of hemp.
They are the same species, different potency because of selection. I once smoked the low potency a.k.a fiber hemp. Usually we share single joint between 3 or 4 friends. That night we shared big bong of the hemp, then proceeded to roll large cigar like joints and we each smoked about 3 of the large joints. I remember being very drunk but I felt the action from the low potency hemp. It was noticeable, but not the stoned confused feeling of high potency weed, it was more like euphoria. I felt happy and really liked being with friends, laughing, and the warm summer night at nature. So one actually can get high from 0.2 % THC weed.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: farlack on March 27, 2013, 12:32:17 AM
Quote
Hemp and marijuana are two different things. Its like raisins and graps you cant make grape juice with a raisin, and you cant get stoned off of hemp.
He's not wrong. I studied botanic and they both are the exact same plant (only the genome differ) : Cannabis sativa. There is also Cannabis indica and Cannabis ruderalis but it's like comparing black and white human and saying they are not the same species : Homo sapiens.

Hemp you wear as a bracelet, or clothes, rope, paper, milk. Marijuana you smoke and get high, they're the same plant different products.



Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: Jenger on March 27, 2013, 12:39:58 AM
If I could pick either or, I'd grow pot as I find it much more profitable for less of a start up cost.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: GambitBTC on March 28, 2013, 10:42:47 PM
If I could pick either or, I'd grow pot as I find it much more profitable for less of a start up cost.

Wish it was legal in my area, the penalty is to high for me to consider where i live.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: Bitzing on March 28, 2013, 11:32:44 PM
20 plants 1st harvest = $10k
Total year profit =  $30k

Considering you have the setup, and solar panels.

Where did you come up with these numbers?

An average grower can held 1lbs per 1kwatt every 3 months (I know you can get more with right strain and experienced grower). Where I am from 1lbs goes for 4k.

Just with 1 light, multiple when necessary.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: briannguyen on March 28, 2013, 11:38:10 PM
Do both with FREE Electricity and you will be super rich. Even mining BTC with graphic cards. lol

Once you are rich, build a mini nuclear plan and sell electricity + mining + growing weed under nuclear station. Noone will detect it.

hahahaha


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: Wardrick on March 29, 2013, 06:37:22 AM
Mining BTC         Growing Weed

Stress Level  < Stress Level

Time consumption < Time consumption

Start-Up Cost > Start-Up Cost


Why not just have a room where you grow weed and mine Bitcoins? Use the heat of the computers to insulate the room lol


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: GambitBTC on March 29, 2013, 05:24:52 PM
Mining BTC         Growing Weed

Stress Level  < Stress Level

Time consumption < Time consumption

Start-Up Cost > Start-Up Cost


Why not just have a room where you grow weed and mine Bitcoins? Use the heat of the computers to insulate the room lol


The start up cost varies to much for you to be able to say which is greater.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: zif33rs on March 29, 2013, 05:30:34 PM
Why not just have a room where you grow weed and mine Bitcoins?


God bless Washington State.  8)


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: GambitBTC on March 29, 2013, 05:51:45 PM
Why not just have a room where you grow weed and mine Bitcoins?


God bless Washington State.  8)

Lucky bastard :)


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: farlack on March 29, 2013, 05:58:15 PM
20 plants 1st harvest = $10k
Total year profit =  $30k

Considering you have the setup, and solar panels.

Where did you come up with these numbers?

An average grower can held 1lbs per 1kwatt every 3 months (I know you can get more with right strain and experienced grower). Where I am from 1lbs goes for 4k.

Just with 1 light, multiple when necessary.

1 pound? Probably not you will need a huge plant for that.
1lb might go for 4k, but if you sell 10 pounds to someone, you're not selling it for 4k each. I can go buy 10lb from Cali for 13k.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: Bitzing on March 29, 2013, 06:02:36 PM
20 plants 1st harvest = $10k
Total year profit =  $30k

Considering you have the setup, and solar panels.

Where did you come up with these numbers?

An average grower can held 1lbs per 1kwatt every 3 months (I know you can get more with right strain and experienced grower). Where I am from 1lbs goes for 4k.

Just with 1 light, multiple when necessary.

1 pound? Probably not you will need a huge plant for that.
1lb might go for 4k, but if you sell 10 pounds to someone, you're not selling it for 4k each. I can go buy 10lb from Cali for 13k.


You don't just grow 1 plant under a 1k light, you should know this. Also should know you sell it for what you ask. 4k per lbs is how it goes, don't like it don't buy it imo. You don't have to be a salesmen to sell drugs, they tend to sell themselves.

You will never find 10lbs for 13k in NY unless you are smoking dirt.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: MysteryMiner on March 29, 2013, 06:12:36 PM
If Bitcoin mining would give waste energy off as a light instead of heat, the marijuana + Bitcoin merged mining will be extremely profitable. I cannot imagine even remotely useful way how to convert few KW of waste heat from GPU cards into light.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: Wardrick on March 29, 2013, 08:27:42 PM
Mining BTC         Growing Weed

Stress Level  < Stress Level

Time consumption < Time consumption

Start-Up Cost > Start-Up Cost


Why not just have a room where you grow weed and mine Bitcoins? Use the heat of the computers to insulate the room lol


The start up cost varies to much for you to be able to say which is greater.

Buying computer hardware and everything would obviously be more than buying lights, soil, seeds, etc based on a 1:1 ratio.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: GambitBTC on March 29, 2013, 08:30:26 PM
Mining BTC         Growing Weed

Stress Level  < Stress Level

Time consumption < Time consumption

Start-Up Cost > Start-Up Cost


Why not just have a room where you grow weed and mine Bitcoins? Use the heat of the computers to insulate the room lol


The start up cost varies to much for you to be able to say which is greater.

Buying computer hardware and everything would obviously be more than buying lights, soil, seeds, etc based on a 1:1 ratio.


Not if your establishing a climate controlled, odor controlled, grow room.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: Wardrick on March 29, 2013, 09:18:13 PM
I know, but that's be the same as buying really expensive set-up to mine with. Based on a 1:1 ratio of profit, I would say that mining BTC would cost more to set up. It would also last longer than a grow-op though, so it balances itself out.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: farlack on March 29, 2013, 09:58:36 PM
20 plants 1st harvest = $10k
Total year profit =  $30k

Considering you have the setup, and solar panels.

Where did you come up with these numbers?

An average grower can held 1lbs per 1kwatt every 3 months (I know you can get more with right strain and experienced grower). Where I am from 1lbs goes for 4k.

Just with 1 light, multiple when necessary.

1 pound? Probably not you will need a huge plant for that.
1lb might go for 4k, but if you sell 10 pounds to someone, you're not selling it for 4k each. I can go buy 10lb from Cali for 13k.


You don't just grow 1 plant under a 1k light, you should know this. Also should know you sell it for what you ask. 4k per lbs is how it goes, don't like it don't buy it imo. You don't have to be a salesmen to sell drugs, they tend to sell themselves.

You will never find 10lbs for 13k in NY unless you are smoking dirt.

I doubt your plant is going to grow 1lb a few oz maybe.

As for 1lb if you're a grower, you don't sell 1lb for $4k you want to get rid of it because then you're stuck with 10 pounds of dry weed.

Have you ever tried to buy 10lbs in 1 shot? If not, how can you say you will never find those prices? Florida normal prices are $3500 or less.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: Bitzing on March 29, 2013, 10:31:44 PM
20 plants 1st harvest = $10k
Total year profit =  $30k

Considering you have the setup, and solar panels.

Where did you come up with these numbers?

An average grower can held 1lbs per 1kwatt every 3 months (I know you can get more with right strain and experienced grower). Where I am from 1lbs goes for 4k.

Just with 1 light, multiple when necessary.

1 pound? Probably not you will need a huge plant for that.
1lb might go for 4k, but if you sell 10 pounds to someone, you're not selling it for 4k each. I can go buy 10lb from Cali for 13k.


You don't just grow 1 plant under a 1k light, you should know this. Also should know you sell it for what you ask. 4k per lbs is how it goes, don't like it don't buy it imo. You don't have to be a salesmen to sell drugs, they tend to sell themselves.

You will never find 10lbs for 13k in NY unless you are smoking dirt.

I doubt your plant is going to grow 1lb a few oz maybe.

As for 1lb if you're a grower, you don't sell 1lb for $4k you want to get rid of it because then you're stuck with 10 pounds of dry weed.

Have you ever tried to buy 10lbs in 1 shot? If not, how can you say you will never find those prices? Florida normal prices are $3500 or less.

Your reading comprehension is bad. I said you don't grow 1 plant...

Have you done any of what you are talking about because I think the answer is no.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: GambitBTC on March 29, 2013, 10:36:43 PM
Ya 1lb indoors is a bit far fetched


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: evolve on March 29, 2013, 10:39:57 PM
One is legal the other not.

Both are legal where I am from, I can grow up to 6 plants legally... ;D


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: Bitzing on March 29, 2013, 11:04:32 PM
How do people contribute on a forum when they can't read?

I said it twice already. You don't grow one plant under a 1kwatt light. 


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: GambitBTC on March 30, 2013, 12:10:51 AM
How do people contribute on a forum when they can't read?

I said it twice already. You don't grow one plant under a 1kwatt light. 


This


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: Fiyasko on March 30, 2013, 12:38:47 AM
HAY! TIS NOT ILLEGAL IF YOU HAVE TEH GREENCARD AND LIVE IN CANADA!
Sorry i totally had to say that... I know a grower who sells to dispensaries, He tells me that it's "very steady, Great income when done leagally" "and you get the added bonus of smoking whatever you cant sell"


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: 01BTC10 on March 30, 2013, 02:01:20 AM
Lots of wannabe grower that don't know what they are talking about.


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: GambitBTC on March 30, 2013, 02:41:27 AM
Lots of wannabe grower that don't know what they are talking about.

Got any wisdom to add?


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: 01BTC10 on March 30, 2013, 04:37:43 AM
Plants use photosynthesis to synthesise carbon from the air into plant tissue. Limiting factors are light, water, nutrient, temperature, ambient humidity and CO2 content in the air. Not the numbers of plants.

Like I said earlier, average yield should be 0.5g-1.5g per 1KW of light. If you prefer imperial measure this is 1.10 to 3.3 pounds per 1KW. If you use more plants it means you can flower them earlier/smaller so more crop per years. If you use only one plant you get less crop per years.

This is a video of a 3.3 pounds indoor plant : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0W6XWOEvw
Old articles but still relevant : http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3268.html
                                            http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3368.html
Welcome to Canada.

https://i.imgur.com/SQeT2oZ.jpg


Title: Re: Growing weed vs. Mining for BTC
Post by: pekv2 on March 30, 2013, 10:16:10 PM
Ya, growing weed is way more profitable if done properly lol.

Illegal? Yes, but indeed wayyyy more profitable.

Illegal in some states. Illegal by the goons of the federal government, but not illegal by state laws in some states, like cali, washington, colorodo, and what? like 16 other states? Yes, 19 states u can grow legally by state law.