Bitcoin Forum

The loans, is fraud.

Loans and subsidies are different.
Not everybody gets subsidies.
You should frame your question in a clear manner.

Right.
 "A subsidy is a form of financial aid or support extended to an economic sector (or institution, business, or individual) generally with the aim of promoting economic and social policy."
 "A loan is the lending of money from one individual, organization or entity to another individual, organization or entity."

So, as pitham1 has said, not everybody can get subsidies. If only we could.  :P  lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy

I disagree. Everybody can get subsidy. A portion of the taxes could be used for that reason.

And here is the important question, how to get subsidy, how many of us can apply for subsidy and where?
Individuals, organizations make big profit on loans, and interest on loans depends from credibility some individual or organization have. That is zillion dollars profit each year for big banks and rich people. They don't wish to give their money for free.

But it can only be used for specific cases, unlike with loans where you can mostly spend it where you want.
(e.g. Child Care Subsidy,  Health Insurance Subsidy, Subsidized Housing etc)


And they have, Subsidy Eligibility Estimator, it's how your income compares to the Federal Poverty Level.


That's the hard part. wew.  :(

I think not everybody can get a subsidy usually without any issue, but taking loans is a lot more simple and easy for everyone, that's why people prefer taking loans when they need money.

Not everybody taking a loan is even in a bad situation that would call for subsidies.  People take out varand mortgage loans all the time when they are making plenty of money. Its just about being able to go spend money you don't have at the moment.

Exactly, even if I get a subsidy I can not spend them on things that I want, most of us take a loan is not always to gamble or do somthing bad but sometimes also to develop our business or anything unexpected happens in our lives, and it's proccess is quite fast, in my area you can get loan only in couple minutes

You are jumbling on two topics. Loans and subsidies are two different things and we should treat it in such manner.  These concepts are something similar but not the same.

One asks for loan in the condition when his liabilities are more than his earnings/assets (of course there are few exceptions to this) but I think, subsidies is kind of regular flow irrespective of current situation. There is fundamental difference between these two concepts and both have their own pros and cons.

If you can get a loan in a couple of minutes, it means that you have sufficient assets to back up the loan.
Subsidies, on the other hand, are given by the government to people who need help.

of course it is a fraud, thats how banks make a lot of money from the people who put their money into it, thats why i dont use banks

Loans aren't fraud, unless ppl don't pay back their loan or lenders seize collateral illegally.

Loans actually increase the spending power of the population, which improves the economy. The problem is that if ppl borrow too much they could default which hurts them and the economy. But if we didn't have lending we wouldn't have the great products and services that exist today, because nearly all of them required a businessman to take out a loan to develop.

loans are required to barrow during an emergency of fund requirement. loans are good on long run if it is giving more value than the current value of the asset or whatever. but too much loan is not good , loan should be taken where you can afford to pay without disturbing your current expenses. and subsidy will not be there for every one , but depends on the country you are living.

it is not a fraud, people take money from the bank and then they have to give it back with some more money, everything is ok with that

What are you talking about?

Who are "we" in your question?

To answer your question.We need loans to buy things we don`t need. ;D

I think that we some people need loans because the subsidy is just not enough for them and they have to take a loan on top of that.
Some people have it really hard and they need all the money they can get in order to survive.

I think those two are entirely different things and one cannot simply replace the other. Subsidies can be of different forms. The government subsidizes some of the things / service that we use in our daily lives. In case of loans, the government also gives loan but with a certain percentage on top of it, as a revenue generator for them.

Everybody? in what Country? in what condition?
If you live in north europe maybe you can get some special subsidies, but in the rest of the world you can only dream "free money"
and probably in a couple of years most of this funds are going to be only a memory of the past!

so whaddaya expect to be subsidized,most of subsidies as i've soon not fully recover the price of the stuff it's only cut off the price because it will be distributed fairly in any other categories that could cover people needs,and subsidy definitely not the same as loan

There are times that we really need money, and there's no option and the best solution is to have a loan,and i must at some point loans are lifesaver.At first we can say that it was a big help,you can have it instantly once you complete the requirements,but i must say it will bury you down.All the interests and everything only those banks will benifit.

If I want to start a hotel. I budgeted $1,000,000 for it. I got $520,000 as capital. I am seeking for rest. Tell me why at all government offer me subsidy if I am starting a proifitable venture. The only way I got is a loan of $480,000
Subsidies are burden on Government's budget. They don't fall from sky. More burden leads to more deficit, weaker nation. More of loan leads to ecomomic development till ROI is more than rate of interest!!

The statement is completely wrong and there is no point in discussing it really. Loans are money that someone gets from which he promises to payback when the time comes, it may be with or without interest. On the other hand a subsidy is something that would be given for free to help someone or some sector for some particular purpose. What's to discuss?

These are two completely different categories not related to each other. And I disagree with the claim that everyone can get subsidies, the rules are not equal in all countries. And loans are not scames, it's legitimate financial category and people who misusew loans with intention not to pay it back are different story.

Here in my country the inflation rate is somewhere between 300 and 400% every year, it's almost hyperinflation and bank loans still charge interest rates of like 29% a year. Getting a loan, or a mortgage or any kind of credit in this country must be the best bussiness ever

I don't think everyone is eligible for subsidies, subsidies is for the one that can't affords the daily basic things and when we need money in emergency we need to loan money the government will only give you subsidies in a certain time, and in subsidies we have limit, so I think subsidies and loan is two different thing

I dont think every body can get subsidies. subsidy is an aid given by the government to the needy people who are not even in a stage to help themselves. Loan is which is got by people who are in need of money and which should be paid back.In most cases, loan is given based on collateral security provided by the loan appliers, whereas in case of subsidy no security is needed.

Yes because that is why it is called subsidies! It is a subsidy from the government, meaning it is a temporary help. You don't actually need to pay it back. It is something given for free and the government is giving it to them for a reason, that would be that so that they can help that sector or persons.

Yes you are right loan is not included in the subsidies. But I want a little confirmed that subsidies should not be for the poor, it may be more appropriate is for people in need because it in a broader sense. Loans are basically must be returned to the maturity that has been determined, and usually there is no guarantee or interest, while subsidies are given voluntarily and there is no guarantee or interest (usually coming from the government).

Answering the question from OP of why we need a loan, namely because there is an urgent need that must are met immediately so that we do loan. And must be returned with the specified time period.

Subsidies are not reserved for poor only. In fact largest receiver of subsidies are large corporates/business. Whenever any authority(local/state/national) want to implement any new project in their region then they offer large amount of subsidies to the businesses/corporates to establish there plants. These subsidies are in form of no tax or lowest possible tax,  low value infrastructure that includes land, electricity, water, man power, and so on. 
Ordinary well to do people are also eligible for the subsidies if goverment wants to implement certain policy. Like in some countries provident fund(retirement fund) installments are half paid by govt and half by employee. Just an example.  In govt want to get certain crops then they would give subsidies For farmers too.
So subsidies is available for all. You just need to know the applicable scheme.

Lending Loan is something banks love to do. (Lending loan is in fact most loved by the loansharks though). They get major business from that. I don't think why loan is required needs to be explained. loan or subsidies have their own place in economy.

Loans and subsidies are different . Subsidy is a voluntary financial assistance usually by the government so payback is not expected and not everyone can get it, Usually the low income get this or if the government wanted to lend a hand to some business or something . On the other hand Loans are easy to get in fact almost everyone has already experienced this and of course borrowers are expected to pay with or without an interest .

Loans are just like fire, If you use right it can be your friend but if not, It will be your enemy . If you're loaning like crazy especially without a valid reason it will result in loans stacking up making it harder to pay . As far as I know people who provide loans these days won't give you a loan unless you prove them that you will be able to pay them . People who mostly do that are your friends .

These are two different things servicing different purposes, I would even argue that what we don't need is subsidy because only big businesses benefited from subsidies money, they inflate the price and accumulate wealth, but anyone can go for loan if the terms and conditions is right.

Subsidies are a gift given by the state to some people that produce something

Loans you have to pay back, in theory, and you can use the money as you wish.

Subsidies are bad because they transfer the money of tax payers to people that could be more efficient

Subsidies from medicine and hospitalization, food, and subsidies for the old citizens and PWD are just fine for me. They are all helpful, besides those that receive subsidy are also a tax payers including us. Subsidies about living, like giving allowance to the jobless is what I don't like, it is like letting them know that it's just fine to be jobless and be a liability of the government.

Loans are good as long as it is not used as a tool to take  advantage.

Yups you are absolutely right, you explained very detailed and comprehensive. That's why I say subsidies is not only for the poor but for people in need (such as for corporate, business, etc.). Between subsidies and loans does have a different place in the economy and each has a different system.

If all citizens will be given subsidies then what will happen to the goverment projects and programs and other welfare services if national fund will be subsidized to the people. If there will be subsidy it will be only the selected few and it will be given to those who are in need, to the poorest of the poor and victims of calamities.

Once you are a tax paying citizen of a country you are entitled to all that the government has to offer... But government won't just give you a subsidy if you are not in need, as you've mention, but you are entitled to it when you need it... Sometimes those who can afford to buy their foods during calamity just want to take advantage of what is given by the government even if they don't need it...  :)

As i know, loan and subsidies both are different, you know everyone can get loans, but not everyone can get subsidies.
If you talking about the loan than should know you must to pay it, and it depend on your income, and subsidies is total different thing, because it is not loan.

Whenever there is some emergency cases which is not hadle with our income then in this situation we need to take loan from any entity or banks which is taken by any person but subsidies can not taken by ordinary person. It is only gained by any jobber.

Because sometimes we need funds that are not readily available such as when we need to purchase a new house or a new car. Subsidies just are not enough.

Now a days subsidies are included to common person also but first they need to spend money and subsidies will be given by government afterwards. But here these two sector has different scenario like loans and subsidies. Loan are for building a house, buy a car etc. But subsidies will provide by the government at some specific internal like earthquake, floods etc.

what country do you live in ? to me loans suit me better

in our country rich people dont get subsidy .poor people get subsidy.rich people s money are taken and given to the poor people .no matter whatwe do e have to pay so much taxes and the improvement in our country  is so less that  i feel that why am i paying taxes?

I don’t like subsidies governments give them to help a sector of the population but since the government does not produce anything then they need to charge bigger taxes to a portion of the population that does not need or will receive the subsidies, so it is an inefficient redistribution of wealth.

Anyone can get subsidies? Lucky you then, the government in our country doesn't give us even s**t. Loans though, do credit card debts count as loans? Well, I guess I got plenty of that.

Yeah we need to have loans specially when we are out of budget like our family necessities or a project in our house like the facility improvement. The government in our country is offering sectors of benefit like SSS loans and pag-ibig loans program that may help us cope up with our needs, and is affordable to all members of every private companies specially when you are working as a regualar employee. Having that subsidy doesn't really cater all you need that's why we needed to have debts in time of circumstances.

Even if we have subsidies, we still want to have loans especially if we want to make something for our future, for example, we want to have our own business or build a house. Since doing these things need a lot of money, and if we dont have enough money to make these things happen, we definitely need loans.

not all countries have subsidies. For me, we need loans for emergency purposes like we have unexpected expenses and then we don't have budget so we need loans to cater our emergency needs.

In our country we are not subsidies by the government. That is why if we need money and our salary is not enough we make loans. Some make loans for there businesses or an additional investment. Some also make loans for when buying furnitures and other high price things.  For me it is ok to loan as long as you can pay the monthly dues.

There's a place for each. Supply and demand. While there is a demand for loans and what they offer, institutions wanting to profit from this need will supply

I think fiat loan has more interest rate than btc loan interest rate. So its better to take btcs loan

When are to deal with a currency whose transaction cant be reversed or cant be simplified, we have to maintain much caution.

load is familiar to modern society since it is a person to person transaction or sometimes you go to an organization to owe something and anyone can do that for personal sake just buying a new house or a car , and subsidy is a form of loan that you need for a business and not anyone owns a business .

when you take subsidies you are limited in just with some fractions of businesses or sectors and just a very low % of people are able to get subsidies for the rest of it loans come in help.

I do not like the idea of subsides. Subsidy is like giving something for free and it makes people lazy. When you give loan to a person to start a business or study, he would show more responsibility. But suppose you completely waive off the fees for a student, he will start taking studies lightly. He will behave like he has nothing to lose (monetarily) even if he fails in the exams. Loans are also the primary income source for banks and many will collapse if we end the loans. Since a lot of people deposit money in banks, all of them will be affected by this.

I think though banks have interest rate higher, it provides higher security to the money stored

Both the currency had their own characteristics, so they cant be compared. It may happen that difference is due to policies

For me as my understanding that subsidies is only a small amount which only can't affect when we are going to buy a house or something.Just like loans which is you can demand what amount you want to widraw.

Not all people are given subsidies from the government. Only the poor are given. And here in our place subsidies are not enough because i saw them get loans anywhere even if they receive subsidies.

I agree with that cause the interest for the certain amount that you borrowed will be more than halfnof it usually, if subsidies were applied in different ways and entities in the society the expenses of a person maybe lessen which he or she may used in useful things. I think loans were for giving us the temporary money in which the return will double if we dont commit in the certain date. As a young person I chooe to work here than being involve to loans that I may used in starting up a business.

You are right but there are countries that an individual must meet first a certain requirements before they can be entitled to a subsidy. Especially, to those countries who are included in the so called 3rd world. Not all people are entitled to have this benefit (Which is wrong but that's the sad truth). Given that you are being subsidize by the government there are times that the expenses of this person is much more higher than his subsidy, in which they are forced to loan just to pay off their bills and debts.