Bitcoin Forum

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/1448-i-think-its-safe-say-we-need-daily-updates-5.html

...then Mattsdx points out the "someone / some people" who said this...


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/837-sunday-27-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-7.html#post12276

LOL, owned by his own comment. :D

Oh goody, another BFL thread...boy, we really needed that.

This scam is getting close to the end.

Oh, come on, it was funny!

I don't know if Josh knows it but the customer he's replying to, Davincij15, has invested like BTC 3000 in pre-orders that would have been worth $267,000 at todays price. The guy deserve a factory tour to put his mind at rest at least after that much commitment.

Oh that is just epic on so many levels.

I have zero experience in testing ASICs but I wish somebody that did have experience could step in and explain this process. I would imagine that testing the chips would involve confirming that the logic that was implemented in hardware is yielding the result that you want (1 + 1 = 2). I imagine there are also other tests like voltage and temperature sensitivity(450 MHz requires 1.2v but 425 MHz only requires 1.05v, but if the core temp exceeds 67C it requires 1.15v) but how difficult is this? My understanding is that a BTC implementation in hardware can be simply tested for correctness by feeding in a known input and comparing it to a known output.

If my understandings are correct, BFL could at least have some tangible results such as "We've achieved 2 GH/s per chip and we are working to ramp up to our target of xxx GH/s. Stay tuned for exciting overclocking potential!". Or hell "We've managed to get one of the xxx 'hashing engines' functional and we're tuning things to bin our chips." I know they mentioned a few weeks ago they managed something like 250 MHz, those details are useful and would quell the angry mob.

Silence since then...(03-20-2013 08:10 PM)

This is an interesting quote...


 :D

So should we take from this statement, that we should only support BFL ASIC because Avalon isn't viable?   Avalon's shipping 900 units (Batch 1 & 2) and another 500 to make 1400 total.  Is that not viable?  Interesting.

Yes that is the reason :)

Is the difference that the first one actually exists?

Yes, the people who aren't shilling for a vaporware manufacturer are the stupid ones. BFL modified their hashing power and power usage targets to match bASIC's specs. It wasn't "we engineered this device to run at 60gh/s and use 60 watts", it was "bASIC says their machine will run at 60gh/s and 60 watts, so we have to say ours will too". bASIC couldn't deliver, what makes you think BFL can? a die shrink from 110nm to 65nm doesn't give you a 90% drop in power usage, and BFL has proven with their delays that they are nowhere near as capable of engineering a rig as Avalon.

Silence is normal when there is a proverbial robbery in progress.

I wonder if they can give back every cent they have taken to date. ("IF" they fail)

Worst case scenario, customers are left wondering how to contact BFL about their refund. I propose everyone donate to Micon a quarter to get him to take pictures of what will one day be a husk of a company.

Though PG always says not to count my chickens before they are hatched.

I should say "I hope they succeed" as that will jinx them a bit more.

A bird in the hand, now matter how much it shits on your wrist, is still far easier to believe in than one that allegedly lives in a theoretical bush.

Does anyone know who can make great decals for an ASIC? (Avalon of course being the only one available to date!)

So true. Avalons exist and make tons of money. BFL Singles don't exist and make no money.

Idiocy.

What he doesn't say:
By the time petahashes hit the bitcoin network, the Avalon and (future shipping) BFL ASICs of 60GH/s or below....will have lost the majority of their profitability.

The big difference is that Avalon users get alot more profitability in the interim. While BFL customers simply lose it in a big dark hole that is the anus of one CSR agent from BFL.

The only scenario where this isn't ultimately true, is where 1) each Bitcoin generated keeps gaining value 2) as difficulty increases and less coin are generated, that value also increases 3) Where the power efficiency savings of a BFL Single (or below) eventually catches up to the Avalons early release and early profitability.

If ANY of the above does not happen....then BFL customers are pretty much screwed. They will be incredibly unlikely to generate the same level of profit as time goes on.

This josh fellow sounds impartial and trustworthy. let's analyze what he has said.

And in 9 months, BFL has shipped at most 0 units. If avalon isn't viable because it took 3 months to get 300 units out the door, what does that make BFL?

If they got their maximum theoretical number of chips out of each wafer, and every chip is perfect, they can build 25 minirigs or 625 singles with it. So what, they're going to build every unit they can with every chip they have in a day, and then what? does their 300 unit per day output only count on the one day they ship product? Even if they do ever ship from their first set of wafers, they've shown they can't make it from wafer to running chip within 4 months. Yeah, they might have the physical ability to screw boards into 300 boxes of fans in a day, but that doesn't mean they have the ability to ship 300 units a day, they quite simply aren't capable of producing the number of chips required for that.


Here he is right and wrong. Yes, it is hard to produce a working ASIC. No i couldn't do it because i'm an idiot, but just because i couldn't do it doesn't instantly mean they can. Saying nobody else is a viable competitor doesn't suddenly make BFL one. Saying somebody can't do something doesn't immediately mean they can.

Comparing a working, running, proven product to on-paper specs of vaporware is a losers game. If avalon built and shipped their product with the specs it has before BFL announced theirs with the announced specs, 100% of the users here would be screaming scammer, and BFL wouldn't get a cent. They've conned people into believing, and strung them along with fake delivery dates and fake updates to keep money coming in, and prevent refunds from being requested. The worst part is they've built an army of fanboys willing to support their wild claims and bullshit rants.

Each day Inaba/BFL_Josh keeps your unit in his hands, is one day of ultimately lost profitability.

No one can deny this.

Josh has taken 7 months of profit from his customers.

Be it through ineptitude...or just cause like he says "It is REALLY HARD to do ASICS". (BS)

It ultimately ends with your full range of profit partially disappearing. Full Stop. Period.

Someone should make a chart with what they would have earned (in hindsight) if they had delivered in October 2012. Then work out how many BitCoins and the USD they lost over time.

That will no doubt give people huge heart attacks....

Funny how we get this Jr. Member troll that quotes Josh.   Is this Josh?    You think this is a game but in reality it is not.   Think ahead.

You should take a look at BFL forums.

Their forums have "magical" FanBoi's that have less than 5 posts and all fully support BFL. Of course they are probably just BFL employess abusing the hell out of their own registration system.

Most of the new nicks have crazy login names that no one in their right mind would ever remember.

I was kicked out shortly after pointing that out.

The BFL forums apparently come with Employees using nick names that fully support BFL. Sometimes these "new" people even answer BFL related questions rather authoritatively....yet they shouldn't know jack.

Well then, what are your credentials that make you an expert in "chip design"?

Of course it's silent.  It doesn't do anything.

My pet rock has been silent for 30 years now.  Are you going to give me $30k if I call it a mining rig?

lmftfy:


And this is exactly the explanation why BFL is so bloody late (and will possibly never have a working product): They are just some cowboys that managed to get the funding done (venture capital, pre order money), outsourced everything and naively took the best case scenarios from their subcontractors for their estimates.

I LOLed here....good one haha  :D

Oh Now Real Update ...

No Shipping Number from the Boards avaible ?
Or BFL need`s Easter Holidays because its exhausting to do nothing

Now I know how American people do the job.

You do realize that there's a life outside the Bitcoin bubble? Outside the Internet?

I don't have to design ASICs. Simply because it's not my field of expertise (neither is it BFL's by the way). Nor do I have to run an Internet store that sells T-Shirts with Bitcoin imprints (like your shop, Megastore).

I have family, friends & a good job.

This is the guy that spent several hundred hours setting up a cafepress shop. I don't think he has time to leave the Internet.

After reading this whole thread, not one update of estimated delivery...

Wish I could read the BFL forums on my phone...  just got back in town from vacation.

Will be home soon, woot!  Guessing there's no boxes on my front stoop...

How do you calculate how many "units" avalon is making?  I thought it to be less.
But your point is valid.   Josh talking trash about avalon is like Terrell Owens saying Warren Buffet cannot manage personal finances.

You run something called "bitcoin megastore" that uses cafepress and doesnt even accept bitcoin.