Bitcoin Forum

Hello guys, I just joint a bitcoin mixer campaign, I am new to bitcoin mixer service, and very curious about this.

My question is: Bitcoin mixer or anonymous altcoin(such as xmr, dash), which is more anonymous?

PS: feel free to click my signature to mix your bitcoin with only 1% fee.

I think both of them is having a different definition, maybe like a mixer for erasing your transaction history or making someone is can't tracking your transaction history with mixing your coin with the various address...

but basically, mixer and monero are offering a same thing...

Dash and xmr should be more anon, you can see bitcoin mixers fees, very high, people prefer buy dash or xmr, and buy in the darknet market.

it depends on what level of anonymity you are planning to achieve from using any of these services or altcoins. for a regular user, using addresses once (no address reuse and changing it) can be enough to protect his privacy. but for more privacy you can use a mixing service but it will cost you some fees but it will provide a good level of privacy.

also using these coins lime Monero will provide you a good level of privacy but the problem would be you have to install the wallet and use it yourself otherwise if you are planning on using a third party service there is no point. and installing the wallet and syncing can take time.

Bitcoin mixer could be maybe somewhat traceable if you're dedicated enough and have the time and resources, however it is difficult and doesn't really yield a decent result most of the time.

XMR or some similar crypto is probably more anonymous, however I don't know the ins and outs technically speaking so my information is borderline useless for this.

Using HD wallets which is now offered by many web wallet service could be enough for low level of anonymity and for high level of privacy bitcoin mixer become handy. Monero seems to provide anonymity without using mixers but mixed bitcoin can also be considered as providing greater anonymity.

I think bitcoin mixer is more anonymous than altcoins, because there are reserve of bitcoins on bitcoin mixer service for make sure it is keeps be anonymous. And it is different with altcoins who doesn't not reserve of coins and still there are not services for altcoins mixing.

the mixing fees is only about 0.5%, when you're trying to exchange your bitcoin to those alternate coins your money will be cut off 0.5% - 1% just same as mixing fees when you're exchanging your coin so actually there's no big difference at all

Nothing is anonymous any more when you try to exchange it from virtual items to real world hard cash. Nowadays complete anonymity is a rare thing and I don't think anyone should care much about this when people are posting Facebook photos of when they have had a shit or what hamburger they have had for lunch  ;D

What's with the party that runs the mixer? Aren't they able to log the transactions and therefore be able to trace it back to you? As long as a 3rd party's involved in the method, it means a risk to your anonymity and a possible blind spot in your plan.

ussualy and use service mixer only bitcoin
nother coin altcoin is few service use mixer, because altcoin not need mixer
only deposit to exchanger , exchange to bitcoin automatic is coin clean in mixer automatic

I think both of them are different things to compare, bitcoin mixer is more to clean up your bitcoin transaction trace and to clean your bitcoin, but if you compare i think bitcoin mixer is more difficult to trace rather than any alt coin like dash or monero

You implicitly assume that a Bitcoin mixer can be trusted. But why in the first place would you trust a certain mixer? You don't and can't know if they are not there exactly to keep track of your coins (though the latter doesn't mean that they are not mixing them). On the other hand, altcoins are global and open sourced at that, so they are fundamentally more trusted if their algos provide a desired level of anonymity...

In short, you may never know who is behind this or that mixer

I am not entirely sure but a Bitcoin mixer service is just basically a service that mix your coins with others and form multiple transactions the receiving address will receive the Bitcoin.

i think using bitcoin mixer is the best option, altcoin mixing like dash and xmr is unstable price, of course bitcoin price unstable too but not high risk like xmr/dash. example you buying xmr today then you mixxing it and use it next week, im sure the price in next week will be down ::)

this is just my opinion

If you have a choice,never use a third party service in bitcoin.You can quickly sell dash,xmr and secure your money but mixer charge fee (Sometimes very high) and takes time (upto 24 hours)

if you use a bitcoin mixer you should trust that service which means trusting a third party with both your money and your information. they only say we are not keeping any logs and there never will be any way to be sure about this so you also have to take their word for it.

but using a coin like XMR means you only have to understand how it works and since the source is available you can check to make sure of that.

I was going to say exactly the same thing. I have never seen high fees for mixing on any site. Also I think that Bitcoin is pretty anonymous by itself. Well I thought before I saw the post about monero and dash. So are they really more anonymous than Bitcoin? Can someone explain this in simple words because I know it's a shame but I can't understand this sentence from Wiki: "Monero is based on the CryptoNote protocol and possesses significant algorithmic differences relating to blockchain obfuscation".

I believe XMR is the safer option if you want more anonymity. Bitcoin mixers are centralized services and could be compromised be hackers or maybe even investigated by the authorities and be forced to show the inputs and outputs that came thru their mixing services. Dash's master nodes are also vulnerable to attacks and government investigations. Some people also think there is a possibility that they could collude.

The idea behind this protocol is pretty simple. It is called a round robin signature where a letter is signed by many people arranging their signatures in a circle, thereby making it impossible to determine the order in which it was signed and who was the first to sign (to go after him). The practice of signing letters in a round robin fashion had been widespread in Medieval and post-Medieval Europe for petitions signed against authorities (usually the Crown). In the case of altcoins implementing this idea, a transaction is signed in such a way that it looks as if it were signed on behalf of a group, not just by a particular sender...

http://digital.nls.uk/scotlandspages/timeline/img/17862.jpg

In respect to the CryptoNote protocol, this technology is called the ring signature

The bitmixer charges very high fees. I wonder if bitfinex 120k btc hacker sell btc by mixers or not. They may already sell the hacked coins. Any address of that 120k addy?

Edit: I tried my signature site, the fee is not high, only 1.X% if i choose one outout address. I can accept this rate. While if you buy coins from shapeshift, you cost much more than 1%, their conversion rate is about 10%, much higher than mixer. So buy anon coin on exchange and use my signature mixer service cost less money.

Bitfinex keeps dead silence about this address pretending that it will help investigators catch the thief (provided there was one in the first place). Whether it will actually help them do this remains to be seen, though. So far the hack looks more like a deliberate scam or an inside job...

In any case, Bitfinex seems to be doomed already

Yes, it is over for bitfinex. People should avoid to trade there, they must be next mtgox.

That may be true. but I am not sure that bitfinex will repeat the problem. Because surely they will get a very bad feedback and it will have an impact on the growth of bitfinex and surely they will suffer huge losses. We can only alert, but if indeed bitfinex can fix his error with add or tighten up something to be a problem before then this is no problem

Bitcoin mixer is definitely better than altcoins, altcoins are pump and dump scheme.

ROFLMAO? Shapeshit? It is a fucking scam, Eric Voorhees is a big scammer, he scammed me. He offered me a job in 2014, but he gave that job to a Chinese bitch who had sex relationship with him. He owed me 50k usd annual salary for 2 years, he owes me 100k usd and shares. The Chinese bitch is named Danac, now she scams and fools synereo amp team, with here bad language skills.

Shapeshit and amp are both scams.

Why not use both?
First you mix your bitcoins and then buy monero.After that you again sell monero for bitcoins.
Maybe not necessary but for the real paranoid people between us I heard this is used from time to time.

Never really thought of xmr or any other alt coin for being the reason to use them due to their anonymity.
Will look into buying some xmr now. ;)

And we have full idea who created Monero and other anonymous coins?
Maybe they were created for sole purpose of tracking people and have some hidden tracking code included in them?

Its questionable for some people as to why use mixer. But for someone who wants to privacy and have tons of btc, he'd rather use mixer and send to different btc address he owned without prior history. Its enough to hide where the coins and himself given the mixers won't hold his coins lol unlike what moriarty did.

until some can develop a mixer that is 100% decentralised then i would not send my bitcoin there.  because then they are not my bitcoin anymore.

If the code is open, it doesn't matter who created it (at the moment you compile it, it basically becomes your code)

With the source code you can check for yourself whether it is tainted or not. If you lack required skills, you can always hire someone who you trust and who has enough experience and knowledge to make a definitive conclusion whether it has "some hidden tracking [insertions]". Personally, I think if it had some hidden functionality, it would have become known in less than no time (for major altcoins, at least). With all ensuing consequences for this coin which could be appropriately described with the phrase "as dead as a doornail"

You are a genius, it may cost little more, but it can keep the best anonymity, if silk road owner used this trick, FBI could fidn his 140k btc asset.  :o

As altcoin lover, I use altcoin for privacy. While bitcoin mixer is also cool and innovative, I will try your site in the future

Any technical proofs can prove this question? Welcome bitcoin and altcoin geeks discuss here.

An altcoin designed to be completely (or mostly) anonymous is far more anonymous than anything else that you could use with something that is not made to be anonymous. As such, an altcoin is going to be better than a mixer because with enough effort and resources you can still narrow down who gets what out of a mixer.

it doesnt matter how much u mix coins.
when authorities raid a server and find the sender of the illicit goods. and then seizes all his nice cars and houses.
when authorities look at the delivery address of the receiver of illicit goods. and seizes all his nice cars and house.

locks them both into a room and offers only one of them a deal to admit something about the other person.
they both squeal and both tell on each other.

then more 'crimes' are then added to the charges.

in short you can hide the money.  but eventually real world actions will get you caught

most crimes are not found by following the money. but by following the people.
its how the mob were caught
its how the silk road owner got caught
its how murderers and rapists get caught
its how street dealers get caught

So if both are centralized in your opinion, what would be the difference? Monero have a very small network compared to Bitcoin, if someone wants to take over the hash power, their capital investment would be minimal. Once they take control, they can do what they want.

The legal process to obtain information from a mixer service in another country can become complex and very expensive, so even if it might be percieved as less anonymous, you will not likely go through the process to obtain the information through the legal process. ^smile^

i think bitcoin mixer is more anonymous because it's specialized for mixing with complicated ways to make people difficult to track

I certainly agree with this (that's exactly what I have been trying to convey myself), but I would, nevertheless, substitute "another country" with "sphere of influence". There are over two hundred countries across the globe, but only few spheres of influence. In fact, I gather there are just three major spheres of influence in today's world, that is the United States, Russian, and Chinese spheres of influence (in no particular order) plus gray zones which none of these superpowers seem to be extremely interested in (areas like Somali). Such division looks by far more reliable if you are, say, a US citizen and want to safely mix your coins...

The adventures of Edward Snowden and Julian Assange tell us a lot about the actuality of such an approach

these services (like VPN and mixers, etc) are usually discarding any log they keep, meaning it is only a short term log or no log at all. so even if there is a legal action, there would be no log to give to the authorities. or at least that is what these services claim to do.

p.s. it mostly depends on the country you are talking about so it may be so much easier than you may think to obtain information.

I think it all boils down to preference and the acceptability of the currency, the wide market acceptabity of BTC to me gives it upper hand over XMR and DASH, most market still don't accept both and you need to convert it to fiat or BTC to be able to spend them. So BTC mixer over anonymous Altcoins

you are right, but if i just laundry money with vpn and tor, i don't send ir receive thing, authorities can't find me. Maybe hard to trace my location.

I would rather have my bitcoins mixed to using an anonymous altcoin which might lead to me losing money in the process of currency exchange......

Yes, and why he considers exchanges, we buy bitcoin and altcoin in exchanges, we don't care they are centralized or not. We focus on the security and anonymity.

Centralized means a higher chance to be infested or directly taken over by the agents of the three-letter government agencies. As you can easily see, it is directly linked to security and anonymity. If the system is properly decentralized it becomes either prohibitively expensive to taint it if it is located in one area (read country) or next to impossible if it is distributed across the globe...

Let alone taking it under full control

different people want different things out of bitcoin and they want different level of anonymity and sometimes even they care less about level of security.

so for many even changing address is enough to stay anonymous and some only using a simple exchange to deposit and withdraw but there are people who mixing in one mixer is not enough for them.

In the dark market there is always the risk of you being scammed. If you know a reliable source, a good website with good trust history and accepting escrow, please let me know by posting it's address url here or send me a PM.
I am very much interested to buy any coin in the dark net, from bitcoin to monero but so far no luck in finding a reliable source there.

https://www.poloniex.com/exchange#btc_xmr   buy monero here is reliable, no.1 btc&altcoin exchange now.

I haven't used mixers much but I think they can give you a reasonable amount of privacy. There's one called Helix that will give you untainted coins and works under Tor. Use that and should be anonymous enough. XMR and Dash don't have enough volume, but are more anonymous, or at least XMR is, im not sure about Dash.

In the future I hope Bitcoin can be more anonymous and easier to use anonymously.

XMR and Dash do have big volumes, XMR had 100k btc trading volume on poloniex when the price was pumped over 0.025btc.

Today is also 10k btc.

http://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/poloniex/#BTC

Helix, I know it now, thanks

You're not reading the post above you with more detailed, and your post is not connected with the Cerberus's purpose LOL...

this topic is turning into an altcoin advertisement.
everybody is only mentioning the coin they are bagholding. i searched for the coin he is mentioning here (helix) and funny thing is that you can't even find it on coinmarketcap since it is not even listed on major exchanges anyways. he is offering a coin with zero volume for some reason.
and the more funny thing is that the exchanges listed on their official topic are all dead. one of them doesn't even have the domain name any longer. and the rest has delisted it.!!

Yep, we should focus the topic about bitcoin mixer and anon coin.

 I think this those not matter anymore because most of them of course prpvodes anonymomity. What you should take time to watch is which one is more profitable

In legit bitcoin mixer, we don't worry about the loss of btc, if we buy anonymous coins, we may lose money when the price dump.

I would like to say that I like how XMR has come to reinvent it's self as a totally anonymous coin and they can tote that to give it more on a promotional level. :)

I can`t say which is more anonymous.

I`ve never used bitcoin mixers and i`m not using small altcoins.

In both cases i`m afraid of scams.That`s why i`m not using them.

The flaw with a mixer is that you are not anonymous to the operator of the mixer, so I would say that unless a flaw is discovered in Monero, it would be the most anonymous.

I think that trading bitcoin between altcoins is more anonymous than using just a bitcoin mixer.
If you move your coins between wallets, it is all traceable on the blockchain. So everybody has the chance to do that.
When you trade bitcoins to altcoin, only the exchange site knows who made the trade.

But, if you look for tension free and without losing much while you are going for trading, bitcoin mixers must be right choice to have your anonymity. There are lot of alternatives to get your coins mixed. Still, a dedicated service is highly recommended as it has many proven advantages over other methods. Going for a reputed mixing services is another important thing to be mentioned here.

Well you are not anonymous to anyone after you have sent coins from your Bitcoin wallet. If people want to be truly anonymous they should not part with their Bitcoins and keep them locked in their wallets. And to be truly anonymous when trying to exchange Bitcoins people need to only opt for p2p real world transactions wearing masks so their faces won't be seen. There you have the ultimate Bitcoin anonymity  ;D

And most certainly you will pretty fast end up in a police station handcuffed as a potential terrorist (along with your counterparty as an accomplice, lol). When they learn that you were going to exchange some bitcoins, your chances to break free will plummet like a sledgehammer on an egg. So don't expect anything good of it and get ready for unintended consequences...

Needless to say that being anonymous will be the last thing you'd be looking for then

The owners of bitcoin mixers might not even be able to trace your address since your coin is mixed by a computer program.