Bitcoin Forum

Research on confidential transactions (CTs) is being continued. As we think the theory behind it is solid enough for implementation, we start to think about the detailed plan.

Confidential transactions have been implemented in the Elements Alpha project [1], which is intended to work as a sidechain of Bitcoin eventually. While I personally feel sidechains are very useful, CT is much more convenient to use when it is integrated into the Litecoin main chain. And because we now have reference code done by the Elements Alpha project, implementing CT on Litecoin probably becomes much easier.

According to [2], we will need SegWit to implement CT as a softfork. This should not be too far away because we are planing to release a new Litecoin Core with SegWit soon.

Confidential transactions will increase the size of the Litecoin blockchain, but there is no need to worry much about it. Although each confidential transaction has a nearly 1.8 KB proof (the total transaction size is a little bigger than that), which is quite a few times bigger than a normal transaction, since it can be put into the witness part by modifying the current SegWit slightly [2], the actual number of transactions of each block will not decrease much. Of course, more disk space will be needed to hold the whole blockchain, but that should not be a big problem given the cheap hard drives. Also, more transaction fee may be charged for a CT.

When we were researching CT and checking its cryptography method, we saw elliptic curve is being used, which is not quantum resistant. This may not be a problem in the near future, but given the fast pace in the quantum computing field [3], we may have to plan ahead. Upgrading CT to a quantum resistant version, i.e., quantum resistant confidential transaction or QRCT named by @coblee, is possible by replacing the elliptic curve based method with quantum resistant ones like lattice based methods.

Further on, we realised that Litecoin itself is also not quantum resistant, because spending coins requires putting the public key in the transaction, and a quantum node can discover the private key based on the public key and modify the transaction's destination address. But this can be fixed without much effort [4].

The ideas about quantum resistance above are obviously still in a very early stage. However, given that all the upgrades can be implemented as soft forks, we see no reason that they are something unrealistic. Actually, we see very good hope that Litecoin could take the initiative and lead the whole blockchain community into considering this for the reason that Litecoin has a unified development team and a huge user base.

We need more developers. Please contact us if you are interested.

[1] https://elementsproject.org/
[2] https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-January/012194.html
[3] http://news.mit.edu/2016/quantum-computer-end-encryption-schemes-0303
[4] https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitcoin-is-not-quantum-safe-and-how-we-can-fix-1375242150

I'm not a coder, but wouldn't that be a negative effect to the speed and block size of LTC chain?

Nice to hear that LTC development is active. With all the hype right now about anonymity this is a good call for litecoin.

i don't understand much, but why those confidential transaction, are necessary for litecoin? do they solve something like segwit? but i also remember that litecoin has no problem of overwhelming transactions

It does not, but if we assume that LTC user base would increase over the years, then it might become a problem and (I think) a hard fork would be required.

wangxinxi is aware of this potential and it was briefly discussed in the subreddit. It's in the early stages and I think many possibilities are currently being looked at. Definitely important to be forward looking and prepare for potential problems.

It will be interesting to see how this will affect the crypto landscape. Litecoin has the fourth biggest marketcap which brings anonymous crypto to a lot more users. This may help to enter a period in which anonymous tech becomes a standard for a lot more altcoins - as far as I can see, the vast majority is still not anonymous.

Quantum proofing would position Litecoin as a market-hedge to the possibility of quantum computers breaking other coins (including Bitcoin).

Yup.. in other words lets make LTC ANON because.. well.. it's popular (since Ethereum died)

Yup.. lets "prepare" by writing new code that can NEVER work and will eventually be hacked.
There is no such thing as security with computers.
Implementing ANON in a coin is pandering and immediately lowers the security of the coin
and worse attracts criminals to use it and hackers to crack it.

The only thing that matters is general audience adoption and going an ANON will not be helping this cause.
As a matter of fact i bet it will make it worse.

Litecoin guys are shooting themselves in the foot trying to pander for attention.

We see guys clapping because they see "development"
There was no need for any.. it's a currency right ?
Go use it.. don't wait for "new features"

Sad state of affairs when Litecoin is pandering to kidiot profiteers retards.
I guess they got tired of those same idiot losers crying LTC sucks..
Hence the pandering bullshit.

i love this news from the first time i heard it.
litecoin is still alive and kicking anybody in the teeth who says litecoin is dead.

i don't care what anybody else says. i like it and i think it can be a potential for litecoin to grow much bigger than this and in time take the market out of other altcoins hands and be the number 2

The LTC development team is getting more aggressive now and that is good to see. I believe this is carefully planned not done on a whim because of Monero's recent success. Everyone should note that it all started with the addition in Coinbase's GDAX.

Will Coinbase offer litecoin wallet services in the future?

Ltc is in a good position to try some risky changes. I do agree that It does feel like jumping on the boat of anonymity with all the current hype in anon coins. Trying desperately to get some of that capital flowing towards LTC. XD In the networks current state there is nothing left to lose. Price wise at least. Why shouldn't crypto be anonymous? Worry about the FBI sure. Currently you could be fully or at least mostly anonymous with Bitcoin even as long as you are careful how you buy it. With all centralized exchanges having to report to the gov on demand it helps cast plausible deniability on wether you still have the funds ran through them or not. Although more than CTs will be needed for this to work. If LTC is finished now it would just be a clone of bitcoins past, could be a good thing perhaps.

Litecoin developers seem to have woken up from their slumber, I suspect the jump in prices of Dash and Monero have woken them up from their slumber to their responsibility because they left the project on attented to for along time and relying only on the  Silver coin tag  to Bitcoin when you can even go for the King. Ethereum and Monero are both aiming for the first spot.

from what i have been seeing in even before this, litecoin was being developed constantly you can see on their github repository if you want to follow the changes and see how active or not the project actually is before spreading your FUD comment.

Monero's recent success ?
Uhhhhm NO.

It got some very luke-warm minor activity as the popularity of Ethereum died down as PREDICTED.
Monero got some attention because of default.
There was really not much else to try and fuck with to profit from.
Which is why the Dark Market push was made (to capitalize on this positioning)

I really think you are all deceitful and or dumb.
You post so much fucking bullshit here 24/7 all year long it simply amazes me.

Success ?
What fucking success ?  :D
The stupid ANON coin got a little bump in price because there was nothing much else going on ?
And we are parading that around as some success milestone ?
Are you kidiots high or what ?

And LTC is NOT dead ?
I agree it's alive & kicking.
But you will all notice NOBODY wants to comment on whether adding the ANON feature will be good or not.
All they do is proclaim "development" is good.

It's a currency right ?
Does it work ?
Then you are suppose to use it.
Is adding ANON shit going to HELP that ?
Seriously ask YOURSELVES people.. then you tell me !

Imagine the FIAT dollar in CAN/USA
Then imagine people crying for more features.. make sense ?
Spend it retards.. it's money LOL

This dipshit mentality that you need an ever changing morphing coin..
treating it as though it's a software program is fucking moronic.

In the Software world people rightfully deem a program as dead if it is not updated anymore.
In crypto they they apply this mentality as an indicator of a coin's legit stature.
As in the more it's "developed" the more legit it is..

On another web site i just finished posting a comment back to a guy about the program "Fireworks"
Same situation as Litecoin.
People were posting alternatives to Adobe Photoshop.. many were pretty shitty.
So i said Fireworks guys.. it's great and even supports Fireworks + Photoshop plugins.
But since it's died off in popularity ever since Adobe bought it from Macromedia a decade ago..
No one even remembers it exists.
So i started replying back to comments ..or i should ASSUMPTIONS.
Some guy said.. well it should be kept updated.
I said it is updated LOL
Why did the guy assume it was not ?

PEOPLE ARE FUCKING STUPID.

REALLY REALLY REALLY FUCKING GOD DAMN STUPID.

..and oh boy do they LOVE thinking the opposite.

I coded a file sharing MOD years ago.
I think the last build update i did on it was 2012.
Guess what people ?
It works 100% perfect STILL !
..as intended.

Get it ?

LTC is a currency sure. To say that it is done in its current state I don't agree. What would the perfect crypto be?

Instant transactions.
Fully scalable.
Private? To be debated I suppose
Smart contacts / Programmable
Fair distribution..

Is LTC there? Far from imo.

I do agree with you that the most important thing is to use crypto. Actually we could probably be fully scalable today if everybody just accepted any type of CryptoCurrency..

LTC could be kept in its current state in this type of scenario. Perhaps we will use many different cryptos instead of having one rule exclusively.

Then you may have to make a new coin buddy.

And it was fairly distributed and smart contracts are scammy and who says coins have to use a block chain ?
Why because you all did not find a better way to do it ..yet ?

Further more who said "done" ?
I sure as hell never said LTC was done.

But..
It is a currency smart fuckers.
Soooo uhhhhhh

If you want that list of lame scammy features then go buy ICO scam coins like Ethereum etc.
Don't demand legit coins copy cat the scammy garbage so you can make a buck of it.

Instead go out and SUPPORT Litecoin and use it as intended as a currency
..not waiting around here to see if it' updated yet.. with ?

Don't think your smart.. BE smart.

Poor arguments.. poor retorts.. poor mentality.. for bucks $$$

I'm skeptical that adding CT will have adverse affects to LTC on a socioeconomic level.

CT is only part of the solution to privacy/anonymity.

Let's face it, the recent effect in anonymous coins is mostly because of hype (or over expectations). I do agree that it would not really affect LTC's price (unless certain groups decide something else). Bad thing is that in the past 2 years cryptocurrencies are restraining from adoption more and more. We have a new "gimmicks race", which probably leads to nowhere.

well first of all hype is not a bad thing for altcoins to gain some momentum and then gain some better foothold in the market to raise their price and stay there. besides no trader is going to miss a good hype because there is a lot of profit to me made :)

also it is not all hype, there are so many people looking for more privacy so they will look for better anonymous coins. they may not be using it on dark markets and such but that doesn't mean people don't like or want this feature and what coin is better than litecoin to implement this feature. of course only if they don't break everything by doing so!

That's what I meant. Sometimes you do need hype, but that is when you are focused to something more important - adoption (i.e. to get some traction in a coin/asset/token). But that is something we are not seeing lately. Most of the people only care about their profits and that's it.



Privacy doesn't necessarily means wider usage.

this gimmicks race will lead to something. a lot of projects will fail but there will be a coin or a blockchain-thing that will be used in the future. will ETH survive? who know, but they changed something. check lykke they have the potential to change things to. poloniex and others won't be used. or lykke will fail and something else will take its place.

but privacy is the most important thing these days in will be even more important in the future.

Yeah, right. "They" can read the title of your newspaper, while you are taking a dump in your toilet if you are targeted. No matter how much freedom you think you are having. Problem is that most of the average Joe's think that they will be untouchable while using anonymous cryptocurrencies. At least back in 1800s you can hide in a cave or something. :) Things are much different now.

Just checked one of their threads and... well... I am speechless...

This is not a gimmick we came up with two weeks ago.
Coblee (charlie) had expressed interest in implementing (optional) confidential transactions without a hard fork earlier this year in the Litecoin Core and Association AMA.
Take a look at this post by Charlie Lee: https://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/3z2ta1/ama_official_litecoin_developers_and_litecoin/cyjsk53

That was over 10 months ago, before Monero or DASH or whatever else shitcoin became popular.

Another Litecoin Core developer (thrasher-au/Adrian Gallagher) also announced we could be looking into confidential transactions later this year (around now right?)
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/3z2ta1/ama_official_litecoin_developers_and_litecoin/cyj5zl4

That's odd I remember how the litecoin creator Charlie Lee reached out to the DOGE community and offered the option of merged mining so that DOGE could survive. The design of DOGE and it's fast collapse of mining reward meant that within the year most miners would be forced to abandon it or mine at a lose. Many in the DOGE community including their leader attacked Charlie for making the offer. Minds changed as miners were forced to abandon DOGE and eventually it became supported by the strength of the Litecoin Network.

While it is true that there are a minority of negative individuals involved with all coins (and they show up more when a coin is being pumped) the Litecoin community has in general embraced Bitcoins and various alt coins. An example of this is how the Litecoin community was impressed by the DOGE community charitable efforts. In fact there are various Litecoin charitable efforts that continue to this day as a result of the example set.

One of the important reasons for privacy not being mentioned is the requirement for it by merchants. If cryptocurrency was ever adopted at the level many in these forums hope for many merchants would be unhappy with a traceable currency that allows the competition to track part of their cash flow. Another reason is that being untraceable is beneficial to those living under the tyranny of corrupt governments. A good non-monetary example of why privacy is required in the real world is the utilization of TOR in countries where you might lose your life for reading certain internet content. By allowing people to tunnel out an avenue for self education (and not indoctrination) is provided.

Edit: Here's a link to an article that includes information about a joint charitable effort by the dogecoin and litecoin community called LiteShibes 4 Christmas. An example of how communities can work together for the good.

http://www.coindesk.com/things-alt-feathercoin-forks-collaborative-crowdfund-charity/
  

I do agree that in altcoins there is always has an ongoing "gimmick race" coming from most of them. But there is another way of looking at the situation. Without participating in the gimmicks race and pushing the development team into improving their respective coin projects then they might be left behind by their competitors. I believe if litecoin does nothing then it would be threatened to become a forgotten coin and die slowly. I know litecoin is still in a good position even if they do not participate in the gimmicks race but they might be in a better one if they do.

DOGE is still breathing because of its enormous community and it is a living proof that cryptocurrencies does not need gimmicks to succeed. Only a troll can say that Litecoin is feeling threatened by some other coin/asset/token. Even if LTC completely dies, it will still be one of the best, because for one simple reason - it distances itself from the "tech race" and focuses on adoption. If Litecoin dies it would not be, because it was "not developed" (from the tech side), it will be because of the people's hypocrisy.

EDIT:


It may die, because people are for the "coin of the day" and cares about their $5 profits. I've said that more times than a 60-year old priest said "Amen".

some people don't care about their privacy or being anonymous, or they would not use fiat or paypal or other service like facebook, so i have my doubt that privacy is so important, and this is true for like 90% of the people in the world

Please remember:

Confidential Transactions are optional...

...not to be used by the general user, on the other hand, an advanced user might.

While I agree that "gimmicks" do not make a coin, but there are only a handful of features that can be experimented with and implemented in this crypto space. It's fucking lose - lose with some of you people: Litecoin paces Bitcoin Core to ensure stability "LITECOIN HAS NO DEVELOPMENT!" Litecoin explores CT and answers to the block size debate "HOW ORIGINAL, DUMBEST IDEA EVER!"

All while the development team is doing this on their free time. I agree, I think someone should come out with a better coin on the devs team budget. I'm sure it would be awesome.

The only thing I can agree with is that Litecoin is indeed developing slowly, but there are a lot of reasons for that. Maybe they should focus on gathering a bigger and a worldwide community.

As for the DOGE - Monero comparison... That's imho is very far from the truth. You do realize that DOGE potentially has a lot more chances for adoption than Monero? You can laugh on that statement, but just take a closer look to websites/social accounts such as 9GAG. "The jokes industry" worth BILLIONS.

P.S. And, yes... DOGE is a shitcoin (if we talk about gimmicks).

Ok so back to the fungibility issue. Won't that mean that there is a risk of the coins' transactions made without CT will be worth less and the coins transacted with CT? For argument's sake let us say that both those transactions made a purchase of drugs from the same merchant in the darknet.

yes thats right. they don't care. but they should. and i think that after snowden something happened. and thats why i think that more people will realize that should care.

That is a lie..

The dev said he is leaving LONG AGO because the community failed to support the coin.

HIS WORDS

And.. i was saying it was happening far before he admitted it and i can prove it.

Almost 2 years ago the price slumped and 95% of it's so called facade of a community bolted.
And still to this day you all lie your fucking ass off about it partying like it's 2013 still.

It never DID have a fucking community !
All it had was temporary short term traders looking to make a buck.
So when the popularity died off then the price started dropping like crazy there was an exodus
and i called it to the day exact day and posted a picture from Cryptsy as proof.
I said it has NOW begun..
And i was right !
After that it just dropped more and more as more & more users left..
and the chatter here went from all Doge topics on page 1 to 0

You are all deceitful bullshiting pigs lying & crying FUD for bucks here 24/7.
..or you are morons (or a vulgar combo of both)

You can't deny what i just fucking said retards.
The god damn fucking dev of the coin said it himself !
He announced he was leaving the project because the COMMUNITY FAILED TO SUPPORT THE COIN

So what do i see over & over like a broken record ?

LIEM OMGZ DOGE HAZ SUCH AGUD COMMUNITY !!!!

bull
mother
fucking
shit
SCAMMY
morons

And the rest of you are spewing retarded garbage galore making excuses.
Who do you think is eating up your stupid drivel ?

"cryptocurrencies does not need gimmicks to succeed" ?

What the fuck part of the Doge Meme is not a gimmick ?
Say more dumb shit guys.. please, it makes my balls tingle LOL

And no gimmicks are bad and Monero came out 2 years ago dumb ass's
So yeah LTC still could have been planning on copying the gimmick long ago.

100% of you are shit talking idiots.
All you do is spew shit and cry FUD for bucks.
making excuses for "bad" non stop.. so it lines your wallets.

Fumble over yourselves to pile on the ANON band wagon idiots i laugh at you
As i did with every other stupid trend that died here before.
I hope the FBI kicks your fucking doors in pricks that would amuse me LOL

Charlie supports Doge ? a scam coin ? ya that is smart LOL
I wonder how much money he made off joining in with the other losers bullshiting about doge ?
A crowd of predators that left kids holding the bag.. still to this day !

But litecoin is not bitcoin. Even if bitcoin lacks certain technologies and features other altcoins and platforms have it was the first cryptocurrency and it may be cliche to say this but it has first mover advantage over the rest. Remember during the early years it was litecoin that started a sort of "gimmicks race" by making confirmation times faster and adding more in the total coin supply. Not even being the faster coin could make it surpass bitcoin. So maybe a new approach is to be taken and take the gimmicks race a step further. With litecoin's current infrastructure I believe it can take Ethereum a run for their money and get back to 2nd place.

I am now quite sure that you suffer from schizophrenia or you are mostly writing your comments while drunk.

1. Last time I used (i.e. mined) DOGE was back in Q1/2015 and that's because of one simple reason: I had scrypt ASICs. I have NEVER traded DOGE. NEVER!
2. Its not your first time attacking me just because you have some schizophrenic thoughts that you KNOW everyone. I once told you that you should either grow up or FUCK OFF, but you conveniently did not answered.
3. Palmer leaving DOGE has nothing to do with community not being supportive. Maybe he saw that the hype was declining and found an excuse to leave the coin, but still that has nothing to do with the support of the community.
4. Like it or not, DOGE is still among the top coins in trade volume (if we exclude the volume of a few coins which are pumped every now and then).




Making a coin faster and increase its supply has nothing to do with gimmicks. Gimmicks are wallet design and chat, trade bots etc... things that are mostly creating hype.

Doge is not mostly dead because it was merge mined to litecoin. Hardly a "community" backing it if it needed litecoin miners to bail it out.

That's of course a valid argument, but my point was that it is still among the most traded coins.

Anyway, let's not dilute this thread since its all about Litecoin and one question remain unanswered: Wouldn't CT cause a negative effect to LTC's speed and blockchain/block size?

It was about your obscene commentary that is repeated here like a broken record about Doge.
YOU SAID IT so don't whine when people respond.. calling bullshit.

The Doge heyday and popularity is long gone.
Yet my point for ages has been you all refuse to acknowledge this fact.
You simply press on with the same stupid bullshit comments.

I hear the same exact word for word comments i do NOW as i did back when it was popular.
Problem is the dev said he left the damn coin because the "community" failed to support the project
AFTER i said it was already happening long before he admitted it publicly.

I am the crazy one ?

Which is the one in denial posting blatant bullshit ?

I see real communities and trend hopping opportunistic profiteers..
Don't confuse the two groups Spartak.

I am aware of some of the "value added" antics pushed by Doge kids too.
Such as the utterly pointless $45,000.00 1 single race NASCAR paint job.
WHY was that done ?
It was done to stir up a frenzy in the Altcoin world nothing more.
It hearkens back to the early days around here of devs trying to concoct schemes to make their coin stand out.

Many cooked up value added services etc for their 400th clone of LTC etc.
I watched them all do it one after another scheme after scheme.. where have you been Spartak ?
Remember me pointing out how you showed up here some months back ?
Where were you the last 3 years while i have been posting here ?

History Spartak.. and grasping it ..not bullshitting about it.

Smooth was here all along with me.. and his comment is on the money i'd say.

I don't care about personalities or who likes who or who has the biggest mental problems.. facts are facts !
Who is hitting submit on lies and bullshit all the time ?
Pretty much anyone when the word Doge comes up.. it turns into a load of shitfest right fast !

Doge is LITECOIN with the ICON changed and the configuration botched and butchered to make too many coins.
The dev said he launched it as a "joke" then later he said he left the joke coin because the community failed to support it.
Does that sound like an appealing coin ?
Apparently to you bullshit spinners supporting a failed joke clone coin is a GOOD thing.

Smooth made a damn good point.. i wonder what Doge would look like now if it was not being merge mined.

And you guys really need to stop posting inflammatory little defense speech for hated coins around here then expecting people to not reply back.
I don't run around acting like that so look in the mirror.. don't pin that shit on me.

If i can try and bring this rant back on topic then lets look at one of the redeeming qualities of Litecoin.
Community ?
Yeah.. Litecoin has one.. always did.
Doge ? not so much.. mostly opportunistic kids looking to make some chump change profits on it.
Such as the last days of Cryptsy when it was "TRADED" as you guys just brought up.
The fact it was traded means what now ?
Uhhhh....
News Flash: It was the only damn coin you could get off the fucking dying scam exchange.
AKA Profiteer scammy manipulation bullshit.
NOT community Support.

Cut the crap guys.

I was here trying to build something (and I still am), instead acting like PhD in Cryptocurrencies. Actions speaks louder than words.

Off topic question here. What were you trying to build? One of the posts I read from you is that you said you are not a coder. So I am asking you, as a non-coder what did you build and are now trying to build?

FailCommunity. Some (anonymous) guy launched FailCoin back in March 2014 because of the 10s of scams which were going on. Then he left the "project" 2 weeks after that. I (and few other guys) saw it different. That's it.

which then defeats the whole doing it for fungibility argument  ::)

What? No it doesnt.....

sorry i would have thought that is pretty straight up obvious, do you really need an explanation?