Bitcoin Forum

at this point it takes at least 1 business day to get money from one bank to a bank in a different country in europe. what do you guys think about this? will it be a positive or negative change? i actually like it since i can send money from my bank account to an exchange within europe instantly, and basically the same goes up for when you request a withdrawal.

Banks are forced to react and make bank transfers faster as more and more fintechs are popping up and becoming a more and more serious competition.
But I'm pretty sure the banks don't like that as they are using your money to make business with it while you are waiting for it to be transfered to another account.
So speeding up actual processes is not something banks like to do. They are forced to do so. Banking will change.And also there business models will change within the next years.
The same has happened to national telephone companies who had to morph to internet service providers.
Imo history will repeat here.

Are you talking about transfers between two different banks? If so, 1 day is crazy fast. What's the balance limit?

Other places it still takes 2 or more days from bank to bank. But account to account within a bank is instantaneous.

The sad reality is it only happens in Europe, we are a big world of course and we have relatives all over the world, me I have my grandfather in US and every time he transfer me money it is not just easy to receive for one day but more than that, I hope other countries will also follow otherwise they will be outperform by bitcoin.

yep, i am talking about two different banks transacting with each other instantly instead of waiting for one or more business days. the amounts don't matter either. it has never been this easy to transfer money from one country to the other instantly with banks.

if you want instant trasfer bank in europe
and very low fee until zero fee with exchanger bitcoin
you can use SEPA BANK

Are payments from bank to bank using bank cards (through Visa or Mastercard electronic funds transfers) not counted? These bank cards are linked to corresponding bank accounts, and the money paid this way gets debited from one account and credited to the other account within minutes. In fact, when I had been paying with my bank card from Europe to the US, the payments went through almost instantaneously...

What am I missing?

nope, these are not counted. it's purely about bank to bank transfers. but yes, i see your point, via that way it was already possible to transact instantly. but not everyone makes use of mastercard or visa. and don't forget about the zero fee aspect that these bank to bank transfers have.

It was about time for this to happen since this could have been implemented years ago.

I personally don't send money to other countries, but if I have to make a deposit to Kraken for example, then it should post instantly, right?

I however think the exchange in question needs at least one day to process things and make my deposit show up in my account.

Of course it's a positive change and massive improvement. I reckon eventually all bank transfer will be instant and free.

But obviously that's not a great news for Bitcoin, it'll be considered slow and expensive way of transacting and its only advantages over fiat left would be: decentralisation (questionable), censorship-free, fixed supply. But those virtues are probably not very appealing to the average Joe.

i have never transfered my money from banks since i joined this form i always choose bitcoin for any international issue but its nice that banks are going for instant terms but still they will charge high taxes

It should be free, but banks are charging the network fee I  think, But, it is a welcome move if it will happen. Transaction from bank to another bank hope to be instant,it will be eay and convenient to its client. No need for one day clearing.

I see your point, but, on the other hand, doesn't it render the whole question somewhat hypothetical? I want to say that virtually everyone who would be considering sending money from one bank account to another bank account in another country (as you mean it) is already using Visa or Mastercard. In fact, I am also using wire transfers (that seems to be the proper term for what is being discussed here) now and then, namely, when I run out of limits for sending funds from card to card free of charge...

Well, it seems now that the issue is not as hypothetical as it first seemed to me

This can be useful for europe if it became reality however even those transfers are instant there will still be lots of verification and restrictions applied for how much can be transfered per day/ per transaction. Nothing can beat worldwide coverage of bitcoin transactions which is also instant and also anonymous without any restrictions.

Wire transfers and card txs are not the same thing. You can't directly use card to send money to another individual. Also card transactions are not free, there are fees attached payable by merchants and usually are included in price of goods/services and are not instant. When paying with card, the recipient accepts payment instantly (because he knows tx has been approved), but the transaction are not yet settled (+ there's a chargeback period). I remember on one occasion it took ~2 weeks for the debit card payment to be recorded and taken from my account, usually it takes 1-2 working days, while most of bank transfers within UK are instant and free.

Doubt the transition will be smooth as the next financial storm will approach shortly.

Bitcoin will stay far superior compared to the old fashion way of sending and receiving money, but they see that it's not possible to make people wait anymore to send money from bank A to bank B. This is just an attempt to tease people into staying with banks when it comes to sending money nationally and internationally. Otherwise more and more people would hop over to alternatives such as Bitcoin as it offers instant transfers to anywhere in the world.

i couldn't have said it any better. well explained.


it's just a matter of allowing their system to make transactions post instantly. they can do it right now, but they choose to make it more time consuming to make it look like a very difficult task.

Wire transfers and card transactions are certainly not the same thing, but other than that your post is full of contradictions. You say that I can't use cards to send money directly to someone else. I don't quite understand what you mean by sending money directly (apart from passing it from to hand, but this is certainly not the case with plastic cards) and how it is different from wire transfers in this regard, but not only do I see the monies get credited to my bank account (linked to my card) within minutes, I can as well spend these sums immediately. And then you yourself confirm that the recipient accepts payment instantly. How come? Yes, the transactions may get settled some time later, but what difference does it make for me? Further, what's the purpose of chargeback if I can spend the money received this way right away? In the past, I once used chargeback successfully myself, but it was initiated against a company, not an individual...

Yet further, if merchants are paying for transactions made with payment cards (which may well be the case), why prices remain the same whether you pay with a bank card or through a wire transfer?

They do charge a good fee to make this transactions, and i dont undersntand why they take soo long, the last time i tryed do this the transaction just appeared in the system after 4 business days, i do believe banks can creat some blockhain to make the transaction complete on the same day as the deposit, and i do believe they are working already at some project.

I don`t care if bank transfers are instant or take 1 business day.

Maybe this will be convenient for some people.

Maybe this will make money laundering easier than before. ;D

Just kidding.I don`t know,really.

How do you actually send money to other non-business individual (i.e. small loan to a friend) using debit/credit card? Afaik you could do this 'indirectly', by using 3rd party (paypal, Circle etc).



Are you a merchant? If not, again, how do you accept credit card payments? If I wanted to pay you $10 with my credit card right now, how do I do it?



You don't claim chargeback from individuals, because individuals don't have facility to accept card payments.
From my experience, card txs are not always immediately recorded (already stated one extreme example of tx taking 2 weeks to show in statement). Usually it would change 'available funds' amount immediately (except for weekends) and appear in statement on a later date.
It doesn't matter if bank allows you to spend unsettled amounts. When customer successfully claims chargeback, they would still take that amount from your account, possibly putting you in debt, this won't happen with bank transfers.


Prices of goods/services are the same, but many merchants, or even government institutions (ie DVLA), or airlines, would charge you extra for paying with card (mostly applicable for credit cards). Some won't accept credit cards at all, some would require minimum amount spent etc. Around here, many local newsagents would charge you ~£0.50 for paying debit card etc.

I think banks are under pressure to improve their service in face of fintech and cryptocurrency competition. In the age of the Internet, faster transfers are overdue. Notice that instant transfers are still only working in Europe.

Of course this won't help banks to gain any ground against Bitcoin. Not only are Bitcoin transactions easier to accomplish (scan a single address), but especially they are not subject to the goodwill of any institutions. In the times to come, financial repression and monetary devaluation will increase fast-paced. Banks are bound to the fiat world. When fiat gets out of favor because of financial repression and hyperinflation, their demise is a certainty. They can't compete with an automatic decentralized network in terms of efficiency anyway.

ya.ya.yo!

When sending money from my card to someone else's card (or even my own card in another bank) I enter the recipient's card info (card number, card holder's name and expiration month/year) as well as how much I want to send into the respective fields in the web form of my account in the bank, and then this amount of money appears on the recipient's card balance in the other bank just a few minutes later. Needless to say that this amount is fully spendable right after you see it, and I've done exactly this an umpteen number of times (such transfers make sense when, for example, a bank offers a sizable cashback for online purchases). In fact, I'm even curious why you would ask that. On the other hand, when sending money through wire transfer (in the same country) the money first gets credited to the sending bank account in the Central bank, then the Central bank credits it to the account of the receiving bank, and only after that the latter credits the money to the recipient's account (maybe, I missing something here). So the money still doesn't get sent "directly" when using wire transfer...

At least, in the sense you mean it

where is the news, you didn't post anything? if it's true it will be nice, but there are cost to maintain this so you will pay for it i guess, and anyway i'm more interested if they fix the damn "week end we do not proceed anything" lol

That's first time I hear of personal bank account providing such option. Which bank is that, if you don't mind me asking? Sounds really odd, as you're not supposed to share such details with private individuals (who don't comply with Data Protection Act etc), not to mention it's more complex than standard transfer.

In fact, this is a typical option of any bank that I'm familiar with (and I have accounts in roughly a dozen banks). I mean card to card money transfers. Well, I just checked it out, and you actually need to know only the card number in order to make such a transfer. The more detailed info is needed if you are paying with a bank card in an online shop. See for yourself here (http://www.sberbank.ru/en/individualclients/payandtransfer/transfer/transferswithinrussia/beznal_rus/beznal_cc_rus/). Also note that the transfers are instant and not reversible. I don't use Sberbank services, but as I said, all banks offer similar options here. And they don't necessarily use wire transfers but the transfers are nevertheless almost always instant (so it doesn't matter how they make it possible)...

Sometimes you have to wait a few minutes until the funds get credited to your card account, but most of the while they are pretty close to being real-time

With the technological advancement there is no doubt that there will be instant bank transfer .it will be just like bitcoins .but bitcoins will not last long like bank transfer would last.

Can someone provide a link to this new legislation?
It would be interesting to read as I can't imagine that they'd apply this to larger transactions of a more significant amount due to the various checks that they have in place to make sure that the money being sent is in fact 'kosher'. I'm sure the larger ones will still have more of a delay while these checks are made...