Bitcoin Forum

Hello fellow miners.

I have been working quite diligently to turn a few things out to improve my own miners.  In time, my goal is to replace all of the hardware within my GPU miners (barring processors) with hardware of my own design.  For those of you that have seen my previous posts, some of what you see below may be redundant.

I have designed a 2kW and a 4kW variant of the 2000BB breakout boards.  They are quite nice performance-wise and now I am on the second generation of product improvements.

I have increased the weight of the copper in each variant to keep the ambient temperature rises to a minimum and have made a few updates on the 4kW variant to improve reliability and use for ASIC miners.

For now, let's look at the 2kW variant (Please forgive my photos, I am an engineer, not a photographer ><).

https://i.imgur.com/mrxIXyj.jpg

To match the demands of some of the newer ASIC miners, I have increased the PCI-e count to 15.  This is on par with the 30 connector need of the 4kW variant now.  I have left the jumper for those that prefer to have the option of remote network switching to disable their supply.  There is also still room for those pesky 4 pin fan connectors.

The new thermals are better as well.  I have increased copper weight at the risk of manufacturing costs, but the results are quite nice.  I ran this board at 2kW+ load and am finding the maximum ambient rises are around 40C-50C with no airflow (The power supplies will suffer in these conditions).  Keep in mind, my ambient is around 20C-23C.

TOP:
https://i.imgur.com/CCDTzGv.jpg
BOTTOM:
https://i.imgur.com/a7EUIvH.jpg

PSU:
https://i.imgur.com/JhkApPL.jpg

I have also come up for a solution for some riskier environments where moisture is a pretty big deal.  Since I have been playing around in the EU market, everything I do has to be RoHS, but the damned tin is prone to whisker growth.  To combat this crystalline formation that will destroy mining systems, I have begun implementing  special coatings to seal the tin connections away from hazardous environments.  This coating is normally undetectable via visible light, but this coating can be verified via blacklight/UV.

https://i.imgur.com/U66kzZt.jpg

With this, I am planning on power systems that rarely degrade with time, so my only real concern is turning my video cards.

The 4kW variant has gone by on the forums with little announcement since it has been quite a hurdle.  But now, it is ready for  more critical viewers.  Everyone seemed to need around 30 PCIe connectors for their S9s, so I have made the second variant with 30 PCIe connectors.

4kW Top View
https://i.imgur.com/8Sf26W0.jpg

There are also 4x fan connectors and two separate jumpers for independent network control of each supply.  I have also upgraded the board so that each supply is controlled through isolated circuits, to prevent flame outs if one of the supplies fail and the system attempts to shut down both supplies without success.  This is important given some of the behavior I have seen in the past.  The copper weight has also been designed to match the performance of the 2kW variant.

Interestingly enough, I have tested this board close to 4kW and I am having quite a bit of trouble heating these boards up.  When run continuously around 3kW, the board has never peaked above a 20C ambient rise (still air).

Loaded Thermals:
https://i.imgur.com/TLNF8Fq.jpg

Again, the supplies are my biggest heat concern now:
https://i.imgur.com/i7NnHeI.jpg

There are always issues of shorting these 4kW variants when two supplies are employed.  I am afraid of sealing in the connectors with silicone/epoxy since it harms the thermal performance of the boards, so I am also coating the connector terminations on this board. 

Again, to be verified by blacklight for a proper vacuum seal..
https://i.imgur.com/QY4tRzF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZaEoKkz.jpg

These have been deploying quite well in my miners and a few other people on the forums.  If anyone else is interested in using these, I have also been experimenting with manufacturing and sourcing to minimize pricing.  So far, making the 2k boards in the 1000s is fairly trivial.  The 4ks are difficult to source and build at the moment, but still possible to supply in moderate quantities.  Feel free to bug me at www.price-technology.com or on these forums if you are interested.  I do realize that the forums and my website sometimes make things difficult, so I will be loading boards onto Amazon as supply/demand allows.  I am US based, but DHL has swung me a deal that is making international customs much simpler. 

Any funds received from these pet projects, will be used to fuel updates and other pieces of hardware to be used on mining technologies.  I would also love to answer any questions on this thread.

-Optim

PS - a 2880 board is in the shop preparing for a production run.  I will post on this soon.

Nice improvements.  I am looking forward to using the 2880 boards.

my 2k and 4k from you work well.

Phil,

Awesome, though I think you may be one of the people who would benefit from the new coating given your past.  I dont suppose you have any power consumption numbers vs hash rate?

-Optim

I am waiting for some parts to arrive and by friday or sat.

 I plan to spend 3 to 5 hours in the solar array loft.

 Tweaking and setting up some gear.  I look to use some of sidehacks  kit to allow me to use a dps-2500 to run 4 gpus. along with   an s9.

I will use a 2k kit from you.

Cool.  Let me know how it goes.  The older variants do well.  I am curious how they stack up against the new version.  Do you have any tools for power analysis?  4-wire would be pretty cool.  I am working on updating some infrastructure for that to get exact comparisons.

-Optim

been waiting for new boards i guess i got lost trying to keep track . been watching the store no stock for some time so i lost hope.

hey opt how you doing .

Toptek,

I currently have stock of the 2ks.  Are you checking the right place?  I had to do some "corporate restructuring".  The website I am using now is www.price-technology.com.  I pulled down the web store because shipping was becoming quite complex.  If you need something, just message me. 

The 2ks, 4ks, and 2880s are done and in manufacture.  I will be posting a write-up on the 2880s when I catch a break.

Lead times vary based on order.  We have manufacturing down pat, but the connectors on the server supplies are becoming increasingly rare.

2ks and 2880s are around 3-4 week lead time (if quantities are reasonable) and the 4ks are at 8 weeks (the connector is in another manufacture cycle).

Just message me or E-mail me on the website if you have any inquiries.

Good hearing from you.

-Optim

I am waiting on finsky to get in more stock, will he have these new 4k boards soon as well?
I'm looking to put up a 8k setup, so the newer boards are very interesting :)

Love your product, always a treat not having to solder my own cables and boards, saves me a lot of time and cursing.
Although I trust my skills, when dealing with these kinds of draws, properly built boards always make me feel better than homemade setups.

this is dead then

http://www.controlteam.com/

i missed it some place sorry ... I did need some stuff a month ago , just found this post . i haven't been watching the hardware forums like i used to sense i went back to GPU mining, i hang out in the Alt coin forums most of the time.which is were i found this post in another post. I'll bookmark the new store or site.

I was using
 http://www.controlteam.com/
to look for stuff I'll go here now :).
 www.price-technology.com

Yes, of course.  I don't think Finksy has any of my boards, I have been selling them here and on my website.

I have 50 boards assembled, but am missing some connectors.  They are due on 1/7/2017.  I should have all 50 of the 4ks ready by then.

Cheers,
-Optim

You are correct.  I only do business through www.price-technology.com

Oh I thought Finsky was reselling your boards, hmm guess not.
Thanks

No.  Be careful of knockoffs using my name.  I haven't been in contact with Finksy.  Where did you hear this by the way?

-Optim

I believe that the fact you replicated the boards I designed in the first place is what caused takagari's confusion.

Ah, I was wondering when I would hear from you.  You may be slightly incorrect with the word replicated.  I tried some of those boards and they didn't work out for me.

I am a professional engineer by trade.  Necessity invented these boards when I starting seeing burnouts.

https://i.imgur.com/qSwPJsO.jpg

I designed these from the ground up using what I know so that I would have safe products to use.  Supplying to the community is necessary at this point.  The thermal characteristics are proof enough of this design taking nothing after yours.

I am always here if you have any questions,

-Optim

Now that my health seems stabilized, even if my left eye is still almost useless at the moment, I can come back on a computer screen.

The funny thing, is that I can't remember getting a single message from you regarding your issues with my hardware.

My customers will probably confirm that I've always been open to any suggestion to improve my stuff.
Except for the past few month, obviously.

This makes sense, got guys confused, I've used much of Jabber's hardware, without ever an issue.

Well, I am glad you got your health back, but if you haven't had an issues, you may have not been paying attention.  How do you test your boards? 

I sourced online via HBC.

-Optim

Okay  Stop fighting guys.

I have tested and used both products both are good.


The 4k and the 2k. From both sellers.

Optimizer's  are more expensive and are more beefy then j4bberwock.

He improved  the design,  but it costs more.

I do not want to get in to this and be a referee.

But  these boards from both builders can use the

 dps - 1600
 dps - 2000
 dps - 2500

both the 2k and the 4k  can do the psus above.

If you have two  dps -2500 psu's  running 2 s9's with a 4k board  the design from Optimizer is a better choice.

Why do I say this  here is why  2 s7's or 2  s9's  will pull about  2400 to 2800 watts.

If one psu fails which they do fail  1 dps 2500 psu left  will be able to run  the 2 s9's pretty long time maybe even indefinitely .

I did this test   and the result was optimizer and j4bberwock 4k boards both ran the two s9's but after a few days a few of j4bberwock's jacks near the connection to the psu darkened.

Now mind you  this is a good stress test as it is beyond the design of j4bberwock's 4k board.

his board is a 4k board not a 4.8k board.  But many of us use the dps 2500 psu since it is 91 or 92 % while the dps 2000 psu is 87 or 88% efficient .

Optimizer has his 4k designed to protect if a psu dies and he has more copper in the board  so you pay more.

Is it worth it? It most certainly is if you are running 2 s9s on one 4k board with dps 2500 psus.

@j4bberwock  you had the first 4k board I still use your board  along with some of your 2k boards.

Optimizer simply improved on your design.  Yeah he is now a rival  and we all would want to be like bitmaintech has been with the s9  no compertition  is nice.

To everyone reading.

 j4bberwock + Finksy have both been good to me

Optimizer has been good to me.

Optimizer has a beefier product that costs more then j4bberwock + Finksy product.

There is no question Optimizer has the better product and if price were equal choice would be easy  buy his.

Price is not equal so  I can show some cases where the cheaper product is practical.

I guess I need both camps to be mad at me to be fair and I want to be fair.

I can go back and show more then 1 photo of browne/melted j4bberwock boards and as of today I do not know of any photos of brown or melted optimizer boards.  

To be fair every j4bberwock board that I know of that browned or melted was on loads over 200 watts per jack. Or on the 4k board running 1 working dps 2500 psu not 2 .

@ j4bberwock

  I have had cataract surgery in both eyes.  
One at age 52 the other at age 55.
They work well for far.
They work well for medium.
They need reading glasses for close up.

I hope your eyes get better.

Aye, good health all around. 

A slight update for everyone.

I have acquire a new 6-digit meter for power analysis.  To better gauge the efficiency of the 2kW breakout board, I measure the losses down to 6 significant figures.

Using the same test as the 2880W variant (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1698582.0) I came up with the following numbers:

20.850mV drop return side
23.750mV drop +12V side

1900W load (158.3A).

These numbers were measured from the back of the output connector to the furthest PCI-e jack so margin is involved.

That gives a total drop of 44.600mV or by P=I*V, 7.060W.  That is about a 0.4% drop efficiency-wise.  Nice.

This was tested using the load stand below:

Load Stand:
https://i.imgur.com/LWQJwRX.jpg

With unit connected:
https://i.imgur.com/6PetpcE.jpg

Cheers,
-Optim

Must be nice to have a team.

It's a family.  I have been building and manufacturing with my pops.  We just both happen to be scientists/engnneers!  We are ma and pop, don't worry about that.

-Optim

Must be nice to have a family close enough to work with. That's pretty cool. Glad y'all are doing stuff well.

I feel the love sidehack!  Hope yours is good as well.

-Optim

Are these out yet? :)

Yes.  There is stock of all products now.  Connectors came in early.  I have a completed batch of each, 2k, 4k, and 2880 combo.

Cheers
-Optim

Did I miss pricing etc.? Your site just links to this topic lol

Ah, I use this thread to post progress on projects.  Pricing is in the Marketplace section of the forums.

Breakouts:
2ks are $50 in singles
4ks are $65 in singles
2880 combo is $70 in singles

Cables:
I have cables and supplies as well. $3.50 per 6pin.  
8pins are backordered for the next 11 weeks but will be available if you're patient.

Supplies:
DPS2000BB is $50 in singles
2880 is $125-150 in singles (depends on market)

I am working out a few other designs for Q1 in this space.  Will update later.  I am also updating the website for pricing and actual product photos.  Much shooping at the moment.

-Optim

where can i buy them and is 2K PSU and Breakout enough for GPU mining rig with 6 RX 480 s ?  also does this PSU s work on 220V power source. i'm new in GPU mining and sorry for stupid questions :)

All of these supplies are 220VAC in.

You can get a hold of them by contacting sales.

www.price-technology.com

you can do about 9 cards with that psu.

it is a nice quality breakout board as are the cables.

Appreciated Phil!  I did not notice my neglect, I have been much too busy! 

Hope all is well!

-Optim

Bump for updated stock.  Turn around is 1-2 days on orders below 50!  We have had zero issues on these boards!

We always welcome feedback for board updates!

-Optim

maybe a 2000 breakout  and 4 six pin and 4 eight pin

let me check  what I need. for sure i will order on monday

Oh, nice.  If you can specify the exact connector, that would be no problem.  I never mind adjusting outputs based on need!

Just remember, custom solutions take at least 2 weeks to source the PCB part of the assembly!

-Optim

Hi Optimizer! How loud do these 2k and 4k power supplies get? Hair dryer or Vacuum cleaner loud? Thanks..

reconnect,

Cooling is done separately from the supply.  Air flow must be supplied through the side of the supply with the rest of the miner.

The noise is based on your chassis cooling solution and how much power needs to be vented off

-Optim

I'm posting to show interest. Your 4K boards are compatible with both the DPS2000BB and the DPS2500BB? So if i understand correctly, since i'm having issue sourcing DPS2000BB, i could get DPS2500BB since they have the same pinout?

Also, do you plan adding voltage control, unless i missed it and you already have a solution for that?

And i would be interested in a sample, i'm totally willing to pay. I'm interested in these PSU's for GPU rigs to run them with PICOs. If you can sell full kits like Finksy i'd be interested as well.
Regardless once i have a full kit for the DPS2000 or 2500, i'd be inclined to post a basic review, if thats any interest to you.
I just need to research and pickup a FLIR, my farm is big enough that i need that to prevent burntout of connectors. Could be useful to rate experience as well. Maybe i can find a legit seller of one on the forum i could pay with Crypto.

Regardless of the little mention bits, i will have 800amps @ 240V to fill by 2018 so i will need quite a bit of server PSUs/BBs if i decide to go with these/Jabb's instead of my current ATX build.

A few people have used the board for the 2500W solution and I have personally run a few tests there.  I have checked the pinout and it looks the same, but ultimately it will be your responsibility to verify everything is OK on your end!  This board is also rated for 2kW, but I am sure it will operate out of specification if you choose to risk that!  Monitor your temperatures during peak loads and verify the board temperature does not exceed 120C at ambient.

Each PCI-e pin individually can source 240W and we have tested under those conditions.

My team originally used the j4bb boards prior to using these cards and they burned out on us.  This is what we use in our rigs and they are open to the community.

We control voltages on the PSU directly.  For the DPS2000BB, we modulate the internal voltage on the supply pot to keep the board assembly process simple!

We also accept BTC if needed.

PM me.

my 2k from you are nice.

i prefer them to the 4k.

I will be looking to expand with my solar array partner. buy solar.

I will be need some 2k breakouts with wires

question do you have any 8 pin cables?

I do not, but I will be refreshing stock on cables as soon as they comes in.

The 4k board works amazingly well for its construction!

I generally carry the 6P to 6P ($3.50 x1 and $2.95 x100+) and the 6P+2P to 6P ($4.00 x1 and $3.20 x100+) but there is an unusually high demand and backorder at the moment.  I have heard that Sidehack can fill that void when we are unable.

-Optim

bought some last week, works great!!! im able to power 3 l3+ with one 4k unit, overall very pleased.

Nice.  Thank you tlon19.  I expect all of the PCI-e connectors run farily cool at load on an I3+?

I don't suppose you have pictures of your rig you would mind sharing?

Also, edit above on cable pricing.  I initially posted the singles value.

-Optim

yes all the cables run cool, i used my old knc miner 120mm fants on the breakout borads, will post pictures later tonight

Looking for DPS-1200FB Breakout boards...

Nice.  Let me know!

-Optim

How many do you need?  I played around with this design,  but ultimately abandoned because the power was too low for our stuff.

-Optim

Im looking for 2 initially for a pair of L3+ rigs I have coming.

I could use 2 or 3 myself.

We are pretty busy but I could try developing those in time.  While you wait, why don't you guys go for the DPS2000BB breakouts?  I have a pretty large stock of those.

Also, cables are in Phil

-Optim

I don't recommend DPS1200 for L3+. Leastways I won't sell them to you if I know that's what you're using them on. The first five L3+ that came into my hosting, within a week three of them had set the PSU boards on fire. Looked like there was a flaw with the miner that caused potentially several hundred watts of additional power into one board, because every time the damage was centered around one pair of cables. The 1200 has about 500 watts of headroom over the L3+ stock power draw so it didn't trip overcurrent before the jacks started breaking down from the localized severe overcurrent draw. I could assume it's a flaw in the PCB, except that it happened to 3 of the exact same miner within seven days and not to any other of the same batch of boards, several of which I have powering S9/T9 off 1500W PSUs and they aren't even warm.
The owner of the miners said he saw similar trouble off pairs of Dell 750W, where one PSU would sometimes trip out (less headroom per supply). The L3+ are now driven off pairs of Seasonic 850W and I occasionally have to reset them.

My recommendation for the L3+, use no more than 1000W PSU and keep an eye on it.

My board works with the DPS800, which runs 800W on 120V and 1000W on 200+V, so that might be a viable option. I haven't tested it though.

But for safety I'm also not taking in more L3+ into hosting because I don't want my shop to burn down.

Aye, thanks for the additional info Sidehack.

By the way; by accident, I tested the DPS1600BB with my DPS2000BB, 2kW breakout.  That is also a viable solution here since pinouts worked there.

-Optim

I could use a pair of Seasonic X1000's that I have, but I also have 4x of the DPS-1200's from an old HP DL580 just sitting around.
I also have a pair of DPS-700GB PSU's from a HP DL360. These would be under-rated since the L3+ Draw is rated at 800W.
I was told by others to get a PSU rated at least 20% higher than the load.

I would say ideally 50-80% for efficiency on these server supplies (full bridge topology).  You should invest in a DPS1600 or greater.

Confused... Sidehack just recommended <= 1KW max due to fire issues when PSU doesn't shutdown on overdraw...

Also, 66% of 1200W is 792, right at the 800W mark for the L3+...

I am unsure, but if Sidehack says it worked for him, it is possible.  In my experience though, you want to load these supplies around 50-60% for peak efficiency.

-Optim

I think his issue was that the PSU was not cutting-off if the miner drew too much power, so he recommended having the PSU much closer to the 80% mark to make sure that if there was a power surge in the miner that the PSU would cut out and not cause any smoke/fire issues on the L3+.
In either event, im probably better off using my Seasonic 1000W PSU, that would be 80%. I don't have anything as low as an 850, but that would be like 95% anyhow, probably also not good.

Ah, I normally only run GPU.  They are nice and generally error free ^-^

If the L3 is shunting out on you, I would not use it without some kind of power limiter or reset-able fuse that is temp triggered (AC Input side).

It is possible in frequency hops to produce pretty large transients.  Are you sure the problem isn't with a particular supply output?

-Optim

Seems unlikely, when there's problems on several different units of at least 3 different models of supply.

That's why I recommend using a PSU without as much trip-current overhead, and definitely not my boards on a PSU with more than 500W of overhead, especially not when three different boards on three different PSUs on three different L3+ caught fire.

Maybe heavier copper on Optimizer's boards would hold up to the localized surge currents better, but that just means the cables would fail next if the fault condition isn't fixed.

I'm trying not to throw KNC under the bus. ;-)

Ummm.  That's probably correct, though it would be interesting to see those transients on a scope plot.  I am guessing your output voltage at the 12V stage sags and causes a runaway effect as I increases a few fold.  Possibly the extra resistance in those boards is causing a high voltage drop.

-Optim

I can send you one to play with if you like. But as mentioned, even miners pulling 1300W off a 1500W PSU have no trouble, no real temperature elevation even at the contact points. S7, S9 and T9 miners pulling enough power to trip current on the DPS1200 (which is why I shifted them up to 1500W), same. The L3+ could have been trying to pull an extra 500 watts through a single cable pair without killing the PSU and 700 watts through a single cable pair could definitely cause a fire even on a good board. The PSU would have been outputting at least 12.5 volts.

Say whatever you want about KNC. Those guys knew how to get away with selling overpriced fire hazards a year behind schedule.

In general I'd recommend, like Optimizer, to use an over-spec PSU for improved efficiency. But occasionally that over-spec can cause a fire hazard if something else goes wrong and the PSU's overhead keeps it from tripping out before catastrophe occurs.

If you want to send me one, I can run a power test to see what's going on.  Though I am short on time for probably a month!

If the miner is defective, I would avoid any use.

-Optim

hi, ive bought at almost 2 years 1 dps2000bb from jabberwock from france...
now after all this time and a crappy technobit hex4m miner the breackout board almost burned all the connectors...now im using it to my gpu rig but cant connect all plugs 4 are burned...ive read you sold them for 50usd but got to ask were do you ship from!!??
if from europe im interest on buy 1 brea\ckout board with cables soon to replace mine.
best regards

BTW, still looking for a breakout board for the HP DPS-1200FB

We are US based (California)!

There is a proto for this in manufacturing.  Would you like to be a tester of sorts??  It is still about a month out in testing though!

Sure that would be great.

My experience is similar, The boards Optimizer sells "feel" higher quality. They are heavier and thicker.

The construction is radically different.  We designed the back plane card based on experience we have had in power systems.  The excess heating you see is inneficient, and that costs money in a miner. 

That is the main reason we went with a custom solution for ourselves.

-Optim

optimizer boards are beefy and no issues with them.

I was using both his and his competitor's 2000 4000 and 2800 watt boards.

I was a little careless with  the competitors ibm 2880 breakout board and gave myself a 240 volt/30 amp circuit shock

Even with a one hand no grounding touch it still fucking hurt.

If I remember all of optimizers boards are resin coated to reduce shock risk correct?

Phil, we coat all solder joint with a conformal coat.  On the high voltage leads, we use a potting compound with a dielectric strength greater than 800V/mil.  I have received some negative feedback on the potting compound as 'ugly' and have noted said concerns (though on a personal level, looks are not a thing for me in industrial situations).

We are partnering with an extruder shop to make a plastic enclosure for the power input boards for mechanical strength and to prevent shock hazards.

Though I do need to give you some flak for this Phil!  Never should anyone ever handle 240VAC systems while they are live and energized!  That should be assumed, but I am stating this for everyone to know, so that such things are not repeated.  YOU COULD DIE!

By the way, I am sitting on 1k of 6P to 6P and 6P to 6P+2Ps if y'all need.

-Optim

I know I got lucky it was 1 hand and I was not grounded.  It is the 1 and only one time i ever did a 240 volt shock  It was a lot different then a 120 volt.

Was not your gear.  After this happened I altered it and covered  it with a safety piece of  non conductive pvc.

 Something  to keep in mind is that while a psu may be turned off  the power plug attaching to the psu can be live so be careful .

Some breakout boards not optimizers have exposed 240 volt lines so even though the psu switch is off the power plug from your pdu would be live. thus you could be shocked.

At the moment I am fairly stock with power gear.  But buysolar my solar array partner is look for spot to expand.  maybe we will add 50kwatt 24 hour array  to our 15kwatt 24 hour array  allowing us to run  65 kwatt of mining gear 24/7/365