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Title: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: whisper on April 04, 2013, 08:54:58 AM http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/03/offshore-secrets-offshore-tax-haven
Quote Millions of internal records have leaked from Britain's offshore financial industry, exposing for the first time the identities of thousands of holders of anonymous wealth from around the world, from presidents to plutocrats, the daughter of a notorious dictator and a British millionaire accused of concealing assets from his ex-wife. The leak of 2m emails and other documents, mainly from the offshore haven of the British Virgin Islands (BVI), has the potential to cause a seismic shock worldwide to the booming offshore trade, with a former chief economist at McKinsey estimating that wealthy individuals may have as much as $32tn (£21tn) stashed in overseas havens. [...] The names have been unearthed in a novel project by the Washington-based International Consortium of Investigative Journalists [ICIJ], in collaboration with the Guardian and other international media, who are jointly publishing their research results this week. The naming project may be extremely damaging for confidence among the world's wealthiest people, no longer certain that the size of their fortunes remains hidden from governments and from their neighbours. [...] As well as Britons hiding wealth offshore, an extraordinary array of government officials and rich families across the world are identified, from Canada, the US, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Iran, China, Thailand and former communist states. The data seen by the Guardian shows that their secret companies are based mainly in the British Virgin Islands. Sample offshore owners named in the leaked files include: [...] • US: Offshore clients include Denise Rich, ex-wife of notorious oil trader Marc Rich, who was controversially pardoned by President Clinton on tax evasion charges. She put $144m into the Dry Trust, set up in the Cook Islands. [...] The whistleblowing group WikiLeaks caused a storm of controversy in 2010 when it was able to download almost two gigabytes of leaked US military and diplomatic files. The new BVI data, by contrast, contains more than 200 gigabytes, covering more than a decade of financial information about the global transactions of BVI private incorporation agencies. It also includes data on their offshoots in Singapore, Hong Kong and the Cook Islands in the Pacific. someone has to show them the way to these guys. Let tell them a big Welcome :) Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Le Happy Merchant on April 04, 2013, 09:00:04 AM This is bigger than Bitcoin.
I expect this to have a positive effect on the price, but I hate to think that Bitcoin will gain a reputation as the way the rich hide how rich they are. Also: holy shit 32 trillion with a T?!? What the fuck. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Mark Oates on April 04, 2013, 09:02:31 AM This is good because it'll throw some cold water on the blazing flame of press that has been on bitcoin.
We need to cool down for awhile. :( Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Bowjob on April 04, 2013, 09:07:28 AM Mt.Gox, please FFS. Fix your site. We'd see 1 Trillion soon O;
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Gordonium on April 04, 2013, 09:10:11 AM This is good because it'll throw some cold water on the blazing flame of press that has been on bitcoin. We need to cool down for awhile. :( Quite the opposite. This is perfect example why every rational person should keep their money in Bitcoins. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: blogospheroid on April 04, 2013, 09:21:28 AM The pseudo-anonymous nature of bitcoin will prevent anyone from legally claiming that they lost it.
So, even genuine losses like hacks cannot be offset as losses for tax purposes. What effect this will have on bitcoin as a store of wealth is something unknown. I was once wondering if bitcoin could act as a liquidity vacuum taking away value from nearly all wealth stores. After this thought, I'm not sure. ofcourse, there are other ways of accomplishing the same as mentioned in the article of the dude who send money offshore and claimed it as a property loss, to hide assets from his wife. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: goxed on April 04, 2013, 09:54:59 AM pastebin or it didn't happen
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: whisper on April 04, 2013, 10:17:07 AM Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: John (John K.) on April 04, 2013, 10:19:17 AM I'd imagine most of the 32trillion here is in digital form, and was never printed for circulation. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Gordonium on April 04, 2013, 10:23:39 AM http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D53sGw7ndSY/TMTpUEEg8BI/AAAAAAAAMro/FlM_mYeY8ZA/s1600/26020-usb_stick.jpg
In the future, you can carry 32 trillion in Bitcoins like this. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Lethos on April 04, 2013, 10:41:29 AM What sad is that even a small 5% percent (of 21T) to would easily make 1.1 Trillion British Debt disappear over night. It is one of our islands after all, still governed by the Queen from what I understand. If she wanted to, she probably could take a piece of that pie.
I'm not saying seizure of funds is right, but neither is tax evasion, which I'm sure most of these hiding cash in offshore accounts are probably guilty of, if not other things. Investigate and prove they are guilty and reap huge rewards HMRC (and other agencies). Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: whisper on April 04, 2013, 10:43:09 AM It is but someone should introduce them to this fact
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: cypherdoc on April 04, 2013, 10:44:54 AM And you wonder why we're going to the moon?
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: b!z on April 04, 2013, 11:02:37 AM http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D53sGw7ndSY/TMTpUEEg8BI/AAAAAAAAMro/FlM_mYeY8ZA/s1600/26020-usb_stick.jpg In the future, you can carry 32 trillion in Bitcoins like this. Lost USB drive = lost 32 trillion USD Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: BTC Books on April 04, 2013, 11:02:43 AM And you wonder why we're going to the moon? No shit. But crap - 32 Trillion? If there's that kind of dark money out there that can be discovered, there's five times that, that hasn't been. At least. It's like all the debt, everywhere from everything. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: rpietila on April 04, 2013, 11:08:44 AM http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D53sGw7ndSY/TMTpUEEg8BI/AAAAAAAAMro/FlM_mYeY8ZA/s1600/26020-usb_stick.jpg In the future, you can carry 32 trillion in Bitcoins like this. Lost USB drive = lost 32 trillion USD Actually no. Not lost 32 trillion USD, but redistributed 32 trillion USD to all other Bitcoin holders. Yay. My stake is then worth millions :) Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: ehoffman on April 04, 2013, 11:50:02 AM http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D53sGw7ndSY/TMTpUEEg8BI/AAAAAAAAMro/FlM_mYeY8ZA/s1600/26020-usb_stick.jpg In the future, you can carry 32 trillion in Bitcoins like this. Lost USB drive = lost 32 trillion USD That's why you should make several offline backups, and keep them at at least 2 or more geographical locations (house, job, in the cloud, friend's house, etc.) and not just on you/in your house (in case of disaster, you don't want to lose all your copies!). Of course, double-encrypt them :) Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Piper67 on April 04, 2013, 11:56:04 AM http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D53sGw7ndSY/TMTpUEEg8BI/AAAAAAAAMro/FlM_mYeY8ZA/s1600/26020-usb_stick.jpg In the future, you can carry 32 trillion in Bitcoins like this. Lost USB drive = lost 32 trillion USD Rubbish, of course. Lost USB drive, go to bank, open safe deposit box, pull out paper wallet, restore, hello 32 trillion nice seeing you again. Gold and cash cannot be backed up, Bitcoin can. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Endgame on April 04, 2013, 11:57:24 AM The implications of this will be enormous. First Cypress and now British Virgin Isles. It seems tax havens are no longer a safe place to store money.
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: mobodick on April 04, 2013, 12:08:19 PM The implications of this will be enormous. First Cypress and now British Virgin Isles. It seems tax havens are no longer a safe place to store money. That's good because we will finaly get some tax moneys back. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: mobodick on April 04, 2013, 12:10:04 PM The implications of this will be enormous. First Cypress and now British Virgin Isles. It seems tax havens are no longer a safe place to store money. Cannot agree with you more. Anyone knows any place where offshore deposits could run to? As far as i know there are plenty of tax paradises. Not all of them are tropical islands. There are many constructions and they change dynamiclly depending on the given superset of transnational laws. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: BTC Books on April 04, 2013, 12:14:12 PM The implications of this will be enormous. First Cypress and now British Virgin Isles. It seems tax havens are no longer a safe place to store money. Cannot agree with you more. Anyone knows any place where offshore deposits could run to? Nope, there's nothing left. When I was a little boy you could carry a suitcase full of cash onto a plane (and declare it without penalty or risk!), go to Switzerland, walk into a few of the banks there, and deposit your cash in an account with just a number. No name, no nothing. Bearer bonds don't exist any more - or at least the old ones that are still around can't be redeemed for face. Collectibles require a lifetime of dedication (note my user name... ;) ) that very few are willing to undertake any more. Asset smugglers take damn near as much as taxes, for guaranteed delivery... This is it, Vladimir. Bitcoin is the last man standing. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU on April 04, 2013, 12:18:34 PM Loving the newsflow of the past couple of weeks.
Perfect storm keeps on developing. Hurricanes a'plenty. And Bitcoin has a monopoly in the bunker business. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: BTC Books on April 04, 2013, 12:23:48 PM Loving the newsflow of the past couple of weeks. Perfect storm keeps on developing. Hurricanes a'plenty. And Bitcoin has a monopoly in the bunker business. It does. We are pleased. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Anon136 on April 04, 2013, 12:35:58 PM This is bigger than Bitcoin. I expect this to have a positive effect on the price, but I hate to think that Bitcoin will gain a reputation as the way the rich hide how rich they are. Also: holy shit 32 trillion with a T?!? What the fuck. Its nice to see that someone understands the difference between a b and a t. most people, whether it be a billion or a trillion only read it as "really big number" Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: oakpacific on April 04, 2013, 12:37:19 PM http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D53sGw7ndSY/TMTpUEEg8BI/AAAAAAAAMro/FlM_mYeY8ZA/s1600/26020-usb_stick.jpg In the future, you can carry 32 trillion in Bitcoins like this. Lost USB drive = lost 32 trillion USD That's why you should make several offline backups, and keep them at at least 2 or more geographical locations (house, job, in the cloud, friend's house, etc.) and not just on you/in your house (in case of disaster, you don't want to lose all your copies!). Of course, double-encrypt them :) It's many times easier/cheaper to secure them, when compared with gold/fiats. One diligent guy can achieve nearly perfect security. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: mobodick on April 04, 2013, 12:48:18 PM http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D53sGw7ndSY/TMTpUEEg8BI/AAAAAAAAMro/FlM_mYeY8ZA/s1600/26020-usb_stick.jpg In the future, you can carry 32 trillion in Bitcoins like this. Lost USB drive = lost 32 trillion USD That's why you should make several offline backups, and keep them at at least 2 or more geographical locations (house, job, in the cloud, friend's house, etc.) and not just on you/in your house (in case of disaster, you don't want to lose all your copies!). Of course, double-encrypt them :) It's many times easier/cheaper to secure them, when compared with gold/fiats. One diligent guy can achieve nearly perfect security. But if security DOES get broken the consequences can be far far greater. How many dollars worth of bitcoins can be carried away on a USB stick compared to gold? Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Zangelbert Bingledack on April 04, 2013, 01:08:19 PM Perfect storm, indeed. The way things are going you'd almost think we have a mole in the ranks of the elite.
When you think about it, if you were a Rothschild, you may be fabulously wealthy but you still get sick and die, among other unavoidable inconveniences. Bitcoin has the possibility of doing things that even insane wealth cannot: it could make the world so efficient that technology and commercialization and safety standards can all improve to groundbreaking degrees. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: usagi on April 04, 2013, 02:05:42 PM http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D53sGw7ndSY/TMTpUEEg8BI/AAAAAAAAMro/FlM_mYeY8ZA/s1600/26020-usb_stick.jpg In the future, you can carry 32 trillion in Bitcoins like this. No, the blockchain is already larger than 4gb. :-[ Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: benjamindees on April 04, 2013, 02:08:56 PM We should have a contest to create an e-mail to send all of them as a pitch for Bitcoins.
My vote goes to "DEAR SIR, MY NAME IS PRINCE G. ANDRESEN. I AM WRITING ON BEHALF OF THE FINANCE MINISTRY OF BITCOINTOPIA." Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: genuise on April 04, 2013, 02:19:43 PM Why they do this above all? Who is behind this initiative? Who financed this unprecedented penetration into the world of private assets?
How can we build new world without breaking the essence of what we want to build? Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Piper67 on April 04, 2013, 02:21:02 PM http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D53sGw7ndSY/TMTpUEEg8BI/AAAAAAAAMro/FlM_mYeY8ZA/s1600/26020-usb_stick.jpg In the future, you can carry 32 trillion in Bitcoins like this. No, the blockchain is already larger than 4gb. :-[ Hmmm... really? I mean, someone with your post count has to know this is a wrong statement. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Mark Oates on April 04, 2013, 02:22:42 PM Hoard ALL the usb drives!!!
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: ArticMine on April 04, 2013, 03:09:08 PM Hoard ALL the usb drives!!! ... but you forgot that 5.25 in floppy disk with a backup of wallet.dat ;) Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Wekkel on April 04, 2013, 04:58:23 PM All gearing up for the great reset. Imagine BTC and gold going bidless.....
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: mobodick on April 04, 2013, 05:00:34 PM All gearing up for the great reset. Imagine BTC and gold going bidless..... LOL Who's going to serve you internet when the great reset comes? Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 04, 2013, 05:02:50 PM The implications of this will be enormous. First Cypress and now British Virgin Isles. It seems tax havens are no longer a safe place to store money. Cannot agree with you more. Anyone knows any place where offshore deposits could run to? Belize. If someone smart and connected in Belize is paying attention offer Bitcoin broker services for your offshore clients. Belize becomes the "Bitcoin HongKong". BTW if you live in the US and are looking for somewhere to retire hard to beat no income taxes on foreign earned income, asset protection, US dollar is defacto currency, English speaking, and awesome beaches. Plus a (relatively) short flight to Florida if you need to return to the states (say for advanced medical procedure). Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 04, 2013, 05:03:42 PM All gearing up for the great reset. Imagine BTC and gold going bidless..... Silly neither will go bidless. BTC:GLD BTC:SLV :) Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Odalv on April 04, 2013, 05:19:28 PM http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D53sGw7ndSY/TMTpUEEg8BI/AAAAAAAAMro/FlM_mYeY8ZA/s1600/26020-usb_stick.jpg In the future, you can carry 32 trillion in Bitcoins like this. Lost USB drive = lost 32 trillion USD Using TrueCrypt you can hold one copy on Mega. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: jl2012 on April 04, 2013, 05:36:11 PM Imagine 0.1% of $32T is invested in bitcoin. It's 20x of the current market cap. :D
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: tonto on April 04, 2013, 06:21:06 PM That'd be a fun time at the strip club! Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Kazu on April 04, 2013, 07:13:13 PM Of all those people controlling that fund, if just one out of 100 people decided maybe its a good time to put just 1% of his or her money into bitcoins, there isn't enough Bitcoins on Mt. Gox to satisfy the demand.
It doesn't seem completely radical to think that might happen. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Gabi on April 04, 2013, 07:26:12 PM So these guys have 32 trillions and here we have to pay taxes over taxes, we have governments stealing money from the banks and so on... mmhh now i understand why there is a crysis
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Kazu on April 04, 2013, 07:27:48 PM So, does anybody know where the 32 trillion came from?
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Nemesis on April 04, 2013, 07:42:39 PM So, does anybody know where the 32 trillion came from? trillions of WHAT? USD?..... uh.,.... came from thin air? Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: johnyj on April 04, 2013, 07:53:05 PM This again proved that money can be just saved without any corresponding goods/services. If all these money were chased out by governments, there will be super inflation on everything, but now it could be only super inflation on bitcoin ;D
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: rpietila on April 04, 2013, 08:03:04 PM The world system is rather fantastic at times. This will certainly be studied with amusement in the universities of the future.
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: benjamindees on April 04, 2013, 09:51:52 PM So, does anybody know where the 32 trillion came from? It's people. Federal Reserve Notes is people. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: evoorhees on April 04, 2013, 09:58:50 PM I'm not saying seizure of funds is right, but neither is tax evasion Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft. People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property. Unfortunately I still have to file as an American citizen, and I do it because otherwise I'll be thrown in a cage. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: tvbcof on April 04, 2013, 10:26:39 PM I'm not saying seizure of funds is right, but neither is tax evasion Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft. People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property. Any of that money which is derived from stolen value should be fair game for redistribution in my opinion. I would qualify that as money made by distributing environmental toxins to the masses, bribing officials for preferential treatment, and a host of other things. And it includes money that one's grand-pappy accumulate in that manner. Anyone who earned the money they stuffed into off-shore tax havens by digging a ditch is someone I'll feel bad for if it happens to be appropriated along with the savings, pensions, etc of the rest of us more lowly beings. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: mb300sd on April 04, 2013, 10:47:20 PM Wouldn't suddenly releasing even a small portion of that cause massive inflation? Since its hidden away and not interacting with the economy right now, its not part of the money supply, but if the owner decides to spend it or the government takes it its suddenly in circulation.
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Piper67 on April 05, 2013, 12:52:58 AM Wouldn't suddenly releasing even a small portion of that cause massive inflation? Since its hidden away and not interacting with the economy right now, its not part of the money supply, but if the owner decides to spend it or the government takes it its suddenly in circulation. Hmmm... I doubt this means there are 32 trillion physical dollars being stashed away somewhere. But it's true that if all this money suddenly resurfaced, it would become the great grandmother of all QE's Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: tvbcof on April 05, 2013, 01:09:25 AM Wouldn't suddenly releasing even a small portion of that cause massive inflation? Since its hidden away and not interacting with the economy right now, its not part of the money supply, but if the owner decides to spend it or the government takes it its suddenly in circulation. Hmmm... I doubt this means there are 32 trillion physical dollars being stashed away somewhere. But it's true that if all this money suddenly resurfaced, it would become the great grandmother of all QE's This is true. Obviously (I hope obviously) there is no reason for the US govt to 'spend' it. Since they have a printing press it make no sense. But the owners who might be looking at appropriation may be inclined to do so, and that would be a genuine threat to our way of life. There may be no choice but to lock it down. We'll see if the owners have enough politicians in their pockets to snake out of this. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: tvbcof on April 05, 2013, 01:34:31 AM Now how do we get some of that 32 trillion? Buy BTC and hope that some of those funds flow in before they are locked. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: BIGMERVE on April 05, 2013, 01:38:45 AM Now how do we get some of that 32 trillion? Join the government. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Bimmerhead on April 05, 2013, 01:47:35 AM When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap.
As usual the Canadian part of the story is underwhelming: $800,000 ;D Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: tvbcof on April 05, 2013, 01:59:24 AM When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap. ... Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital. Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule. If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card. It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256' Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: BTC Books on April 05, 2013, 02:55:20 AM When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap. ... Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital. Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule. If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card. It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256' Artful, tvbcof. :D And I wonder if this might have been sparked - or even perhaps be a part of - Assange's insurance. We've all learned quite a bit in the past few years about how - and especially how not - to release massively damaging information to the public. It's a very interesting event. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Bimmerhead on April 05, 2013, 03:21:10 AM OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital. Really? Like those salt-of-the-earth Occupy types? Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: malevolent on April 05, 2013, 03:29:58 AM When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap. Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.... Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule. That's funny, the wealthy and intelligent people that I know are either right-wing or libertarian and those with the least money, state-dependent are usually more left-wing. Some of them are middle class, but none of the wealthy people that I know or have met personally are left-wing (those left-wingers who earned the money due to cronyism, nepotism or corruption which is not a rare occurence in my country are not counted here). If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card. It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256' To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if there was nothing or not much in there but it was only announced to scare some people. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: notme on April 05, 2013, 04:27:02 AM When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap. Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.... Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule. That's funny, the wealthy and intelligent people that I know are either right-wing or libertarian and those with the least money, state-dependent are usually more left-wing. Some of them are middle class, but none of the wealthy people that I know or have met personally are left-wing (those left-wingers who earned the money due to cronyism, nepotism or corruption which is not a rare occurence in my country are not counted here). Sounds to me like you are both making gross generalizations. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: XXthetimeisnowXX on April 05, 2013, 05:11:10 AM This is good because it'll throw some cold water on the blazing flame of press that has been on bitcoin. We need to cool down for awhile. :( I quite agree with this statement!!! i like the growth but maybe just a dollar a day avrage with a couple of swings up and a few swings down and a few small bursts. this rocket will run out of fuel and or crash and burn with way to long to regain. right now having a good rep and not "that currency that went from nothing to a thousand to nothing in a year? ya i dont want any art of that". I do want it to definitely grow. a happy medium. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: tvbcof on April 05, 2013, 05:35:39 AM If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card. It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256' To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if there was nothing or not much in there but it was only announced to scare some people. If I were Assange, and had a fair amount of material to work with, what that file would contain would be some goodies and whole bunch of other encrypted files with interesting sounding names. Also, of course, some dead-man code which would progressively release passwords until the pain stopped. The pain for Assange, that is. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: World on April 05, 2013, 02:15:34 PM World need new redistribution of wealth a peaceful ways.
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: mobodick on April 05, 2013, 02:55:06 PM When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap. Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.... Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule. That's funny, the wealthy and intelligent people that I know are either right-wing or libertarian and those with the least money, state-dependent are usually more left-wing. Some of them are middle class, but none of the wealthy people that I know or have met personally are left-wing (those left-wingers who earned the money due to cronyism, nepotism or corruption which is not a rare occurence in my country are not counted here). Sounds to me like you are both making gross generalizations. The whole left-right dichotomy is broken if you ask me. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Piper67 on April 05, 2013, 02:56:40 PM When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap. Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.... Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule. That's funny, the wealthy and intelligent people that I know are either right-wing or libertarian and those with the least money, state-dependent are usually more left-wing. Some of them are middle class, but none of the wealthy people that I know or have met personally are left-wing (those left-wingers who earned the money due to cronyism, nepotism or corruption which is not a rare occurence in my country are not counted here). Sounds to me like you are both making gross generalizations. The whole left-right dichotomy is broken if you ask me. Left-right stopped meaning anything about 20 years ago. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: notme on April 05, 2013, 03:05:05 PM When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap. Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.... Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule. That's funny, the wealthy and intelligent people that I know are either right-wing or libertarian and those with the least money, state-dependent are usually more left-wing. Some of them are middle class, but none of the wealthy people that I know or have met personally are left-wing (those left-wingers who earned the money due to cronyism, nepotism or corruption which is not a rare occurence in my country are not counted here). Sounds to me like you are both making gross generalizations. The whole left-right dichotomy is broken if you ask me. Yep. People tell themselves X group are horrible people, then every time they see a horrible person they say, oh, he must belong to group X. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: axus on April 05, 2013, 04:24:41 PM I'm not saying seizure of funds is right, but neither is tax evasion Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft. People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property. The funny part is, a huge part of offshore secret wealth IS the result of wanton theft. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: tvbcof on April 05, 2013, 04:32:36 PM World need new redistribution of wealth a peaceful ways. That is actually a big selling point of crypto-currencies to me. When the GINI gets to high in a PM or fiat backed monetary system, out come the pitchforks and riot police. Often enough literally. In a free market crypto-currency system, out comes a more appealing codebase. Or at least that is one way I could see things playing out. edit: And 'riot police' are often upgraded to 'death squads' as the situation requires. Of course 'it couldn't happen here'... Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: mobodick on April 05, 2013, 05:07:47 PM I'm not saying seizure of funds is right, but neither is tax evasion Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft. People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property. If said group of people made it possible for you to acquire said property then you owe them. If your capital requires some part of society to exist then you owe society for giving you that possibility. By participating and profiting in society and economy you accept the obligations. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Kazu on April 05, 2013, 05:33:38 PM I'm not saying seizure of funds is right, but neither is tax evasion Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft. People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property. If said group of people made it possible for you to acquire said property then you owe them. If your capital requires some part of society to exist then you owe society for giving you that possibility. By participating and profiting in society and economy you accept the obligations. I fail to understand how its logical that government is able to extract what is essentially rent for participating in society. I mean, its one thing to pay your money into a commune or government to pay for roads & bridge or the like, as well as a few essential services & regulatory bodies. Its something completely different when you are paying huge portions of your money to the government and their budget ends up looking like this: http://www.federalbudget.com/ Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Qoheleth on April 05, 2013, 05:45:27 PM If said group of people made it possible for you to acquire said property then you owe them. If your capital requires some part of society to exist then you owe society for giving you that possibility. I'm not saying I disagree with you.By participating and profiting in society and economy you accept the obligations. But here's a question: if you don't like the rules of the society in which you live, what's your recourse? Move to another society? That presumes that there's another preextant nation which better suits your tastes, and even then, immigration laws, language barriers, and the sheer cost of moving from place to place make that a difficult and painful process, for an uncertain result. Try to change the laws of the country you're in? If you don't have money or fame to force the issue, you need the charisma to get enough people to agree with you that the initiative starts being noticeable and influential at the societal scale (and that's assuming the democratic apparatus works as advertised). Find a few like-minded people and found your own society? Right now, for a country to exist it needs land, and unless you want to live between Egypt and Syria, or have the collective capital to pile up rocks into an island, it's all spoken for. I like the social contract idea - it makes me feel better about some of my other opinions. But a contract is only valid if everyone involved is a willing signatory. If you aren't willing to consent to the contract... shouldn't the society have an escape hatch? Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: DataPlumber on April 05, 2013, 06:32:16 PM So, does anybody know where the 32 trillion came from? It's people. Federal Reserve Notes is people.Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: SgtSpike on April 05, 2013, 06:38:36 PM That's... intense.
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: mobodick on April 05, 2013, 07:12:58 PM I'm not saying seizure of funds is right, but neither is tax evasion Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft. People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property. If said group of people made it possible for you to acquire said property then you owe them. If your capital requires some part of society to exist then you owe society for giving you that possibility. By participating and profiting in society and economy you accept the obligations. I fail to understand how its logical that government is able to extract what is essentially rent for participating in society. I mean, its one thing to pay your money into a commune or government to pay for roads & bridge or the like, as well as a few essential services & regulatory bodies. Its something completely different when you are paying huge portions of your money to the government and their budget ends up looking like this: http://www.federalbudget.com/ If you think your government does it wrong you should change your government or move to where you think it is done right. For one, start voting for sane people. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: tvbcof on April 05, 2013, 07:39:55 PM The role of government is to create and protect institutions that make our society work. It's like an operating system and to run it you need energy. So we need to pay tax. If you think your government does it wrong you should change your government or move to where you think it is done right. For one, start voting for sane people. I would actually be in favor of giving Libertarians some useless shit-hole part of the country (e.g., LA, or better yet some part of Florida so the stench isn't so obnoxious and nuclear fallout from their melted down power plants has a chance to settle given the prevailing wind patterns) and have them move there and do their own thing. If they want back in to a functional society, they have to come back broke and sign a statement promising never to bitch about reasonable taxes rates and regulations again. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Luckybit on April 06, 2013, 03:09:25 AM The US economy is a 10 trillion dollar economy. These guys had more money hidden than the entire US economy government and all operating for 3 years+. All those conspiracy theories about who rules the world? When you have enough money to buy the USA then it fuels the theories. We don't know they all work together or they are related or not, and that is why the conspiracy theories don't make much sense. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Luckybit on April 06, 2013, 06:36:19 AM When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap. ... Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital. Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule. If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card. It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256' If Assange knows, they know. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Luckybit on April 06, 2013, 06:37:42 AM When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap. ... Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital. Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule. If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card. It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256' Artful, tvbcof. :D And I wonder if this might have been sparked - or even perhaps be a part of - Assange's insurance. We've all learned quite a bit in the past few years about how - and especially how not - to release massively damaging information to the public. It's a very interesting event. What do these tax cheats have to do with Assange or Wikileaks? How exactly is it saving the world to expose the tax cheats? It helps the IRS and the police but it's not gonna save the world. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Fiyasko on April 06, 2013, 06:47:44 AM Oh GOODIE!, The rich people might get TAXED finally!
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: tvbcof on April 06, 2013, 06:57:20 AM What do these tax cheats have to do with Assange or Wikileaks? How exactly is it saving the world to expose the tax cheats? It helps the IRS and the police but it's not gonna save the world. It has to do with transparency (the primary goal of Wikileaks) and the corrosive effects of money in politics which thrives in darkness. To me. I don't believe that a sustainable society will be able to support a high number of super-rich while providing the rest with a tolerable quality of life as the population increases and natural resources become harder to extract. And the super-rich cause all kinds of mischief by subverting our democracy with money. So our best hope is to amputate the gangrenous limb before it kills the entire body. I'd like to see the entire 32T or whatever thrown into a fire pit and burnt...minus half a T or so going into Bitcoin ;) Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: rpietila on April 06, 2013, 08:16:36 AM What do these tax cheats have to do with Assange or Wikileaks? How exactly is it saving the world to expose the tax cheats? It helps the IRS and the police but it's not gonna save the world. It has to do with transparency (the primary goal of Wikileaks) and the corrosive effects of money in politics which thrives in darkness. To me. I don't believe that a sustainable society will be able to support a high number of super-rich while providing the rest with a tolerable quality of life as the population increases and natural resources become harder to extract. And the super-rich cause all kinds of mischief by subverting our democracy with money. So our best hope is to amputate the gangrenous limb before it kills the entire body. I'd like to see the entire 32T or whatever thrown into a fire pit and burnt...minus half a T or so going into Bitcoin ;) I kind of expect that this supposed "wealth" will be just erased in our lifetime. Just.. it never existed in real world anyway. It never was gold, or anything tangible. All positive entries in anyone's bank balances are negative in somebody else's. In the "liabilities" column it is called "bad debt". It is not repayable. Cyprus shows us that the balances can just vanish, without anyone even trying to extract payment from the debtors of the bank. It is a great charade. Big boys can make you suffer, no matter if you are long or short fiat. They are the moneymasters. They may or may not control bitcoin, but everyone knows that they do control the dollar, euro, gold and to a great extent silver. If some of them hold some of the $32,000,000,000,000 out there, they know it is not wealth. "Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs -- upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked: "Account overdrawn"." (- Rand) The rest of the $32T is held by public, no less gullible than the ones who take mortgages to buy overvalued houses and expect to get away without punishment. The ones who have the gold, make the rules. Or silver. Or bitcoin. Buy these. Forget about hoarding fiat balances, and don't play with debt. Ugh. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Hyena on April 06, 2013, 08:47:09 AM If fractional reserve banking is possible even with bitcoin then the root of evil won't get eliminated by this new currency, am I right?
Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: tvbcof on April 06, 2013, 08:59:08 AM If fractional reserve banking is possible even with bitcoin then the root of evil won't get eliminated by this new currency, am I right? I don't see a particularly big problem with fractional reserve banking. Works fine as long as it's well managed. If I had a mind to loan my money to a bank I'm sure I'd choose one which did fractional reserve because they will be much more competitive then those who are not. But I'd want a functional legal system to ensure that I had good visibility and such. We don't have that these days (for my non-wealthy class of citizens) and that is one of the reasons why I don't loan my money to banks or anyone else. That is, no mutual funds, stocks, bonds, IRA, pension, paper-gold, etc. Basically no instruments which have counter-party risk. I've made that a habit since the early 2000's...and never regretted it! Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Hyena on April 06, 2013, 09:40:58 AM But if fractional reserve banking creates "bitcoins" that do not exist then how can you pay back your dept? Sooner or later some people won't be able to pay back the dept so that these virtually created bitcoins would have to be deleted from the system. But what if these virtual coins were already lent out in turn? Then we would need to know which exact virtual bitcoins to destroy if the original borrower defaulted?
This is really a problem in my opinion. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: mobodick on April 06, 2013, 11:00:20 AM What do these tax cheats have to do with Assange or Wikileaks? How exactly is it saving the world to expose the tax cheats? It helps the IRS and the police but it's not gonna save the world. It has to do with transparency (the primary goal of Wikileaks) and the corrosive effects of money in politics which thrives in darkness. To me. I don't believe that a sustainable society will be able to support a high number of super-rich while providing the rest with a tolerable quality of life as the population increases and natural resources become harder to extract. And the super-rich cause all kinds of mischief by subverting our democracy with money. So our best hope is to amputate the gangrenous limb before it kills the entire body. I'd like to see the entire 32T or whatever thrown into a fire pit and burnt...minus half a T or so going into Bitcoin ;) I kind of expect that this supposed "wealth" will be just erased in our lifetime. Just.. it never existed in real world anyway. It never was gold, or anything tangible. All positive entries in anyone's bank balances are negative in somebody else's. In the "liabilities" column it is called "bad debt". It is not repayable. Cyprus shows us that the balances can just vanish, without anyone even trying to extract payment from the debtors of the bank. It is a great charade. Big boys can make you suffer, no matter if you are long or short fiat. They are the moneymasters. They may or may not control bitcoin, but everyone knows that they do control the dollar, euro, gold and to a great extent silver. If some of them hold some of the $32,000,000,000,000 out there, they know it is not wealth. "Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs -- upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked: "Account overdrawn"." (- Rand) The rest of the $32T is held by public, no less gullible than the ones who take mortgages to buy overvalued houses and expect to get away without punishment. The ones who have the gold, make the rules. Or silver. Or bitcoin. Buy these. Forget about hoarding fiat balances, and don't play with debt. Ugh. Ayn Rand must have fallen pretty hard on her head as a child because she just doesn't see the whole picture altho she keeps claiming she does. She keeps her eyes consistently shut for the fact that it was the people in her government that created an overarching structure of stability that allowed trade to fourish on scales never before possible. It's like a child telling their parents that she hates them and whished she never was born at all. Gold was an objectve value? LOL. Also, she sounds realy butthurt. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: mobodick on April 06, 2013, 11:03:46 AM If fractional reserve banking is possible even with bitcoin then the root of evil won't get eliminated by this new currency, am I right? I don't see a particularly big problem with fractional reserve banking. Works fine as long as it's well managed. If I had a mind to loan my money to a bank I'm sure I'd choose one which did fractional reserve because they will be much more competitive then those who are not. But I'd want a functional legal system to ensure that I had good visibility and such. We don't have that these days (for my non-wealthy class of citizens) and that is one of the reasons why I don't loan my money to banks or anyone else. That is, no mutual funds, stocks, bonds, IRA, pension, paper-gold, etc. Basically no instruments which have counter-party risk. I've made that a habit since the early 2000's...and never regretted it! I think you're right about the legals system. It is being abused and stretched to its limits. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Jobe7 on April 06, 2013, 11:21:37 AM Right, 32 trillion (like, ouch), 'hidden' and such, now revealed.
How much do you imagine the Rothschilds and their ilk have hidden away ;) But ye, fuqya, the bastichs printing/creating massive inflation, then hiding the money all away. Reasons like THIS is why the planet is fubard atm. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Jobe7 on April 06, 2013, 11:36:48 AM 1. Bank gives tons of money to criminals/fraudsters/drug cartels/corrupt politicians/corrupt officials/etc
2. These people with the money hide the majority of it away 3. Banks say to their respective governments (or the IMF/Rothschilds Bank) "Ohh, we need more cash, time to print more!" 4. Governments (being in their pockets) happily agree whilst saying "remember to give me some of that newly printed cash, nice and quiet like, you can use my British Virgin Island account, nudge/wink." 5. Banks print lots of money, more inflation. 6. Governments also raise taxes and give this money to the banks (and lets be honest, some to themselves). 7. Go to point 1. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: dyseac on April 06, 2013, 11:58:46 AM Quote exposing for the first time the identities of thousands of holders of anonymous wealth from around the world Soo.. if its anonymous... how exactly do we substantiate it ? I get at least 1 email a week from some Nigerian / Swedish banker telling me a close relative has left me $1Mil and all I need to do is send them some details. If I added up all of these emails over the pas 10 years, there is suddenly $100Mil of wealth anonymously hidden.. somewhere?? ??? Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Jobe7 on April 06, 2013, 01:33:05 PM Question;
What happens if the extremely rich people who have now been identified decide to do a bank run of their own cash to buy gold/silver/bitcoins. Will the IMF/etc limit their withdrawal like they did with the Cypriots? And if they tried.. what would happen? Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: tvbcof on April 06, 2013, 03:22:12 PM Question; What happens if the extremely rich people who have now been identified decide to do a bank run of their own cash to buy gold/silver/bitcoins. Will the IMF/etc limit their withdrawal like they did with the Cypriots? And if they tried.. what would happen? They'd clog up the exits just like us plebs at the ATM. It would/will be one big dick measuring contest to find out who _really_ has wealth...and where the losers join the rest of us down here. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: eric345 on April 07, 2013, 03:23:49 AM Here's how they do it.
The Tax Free Tour http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4o13isDdfY&feature=youtu.be Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: zedicus on April 07, 2013, 03:55:13 AM Its not how they do it that is the issue! Its that people and companys with huge footprints in our respective society are in kahoots and they have passed on generation to generation that this is what we do kids!! <---- its ok because we are the elite and !everyone else is our *****!
Thats not youre bank account, thats not your land, thats not youre pension...its ours!!! Thats what they are thinking! At all times! all your base.. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: Qoheleth on April 07, 2013, 07:33:09 AM But if fractional reserve banking creates "bitcoins" that do not exist then how can you pay back your dept? Sooner or later some people won't be able to pay back the dept so that these virtually created bitcoins would have to be deleted from the system. But what if these virtual coins were already lent out in turn? Then we would need to know which exact virtual bitcoins to destroy if the original borrower defaulted? I'm not sure what you mean here. There's no such thing as a "virtual" bitcoin; if you deposit your BTC in a bank, it is your BTC that is then lent. Of course, on the bank's ledger is the amount they owe you, and assuming no bank runs and sane risk management, you can be reasonably sure they'll have enough hard BTC on hand (maybe not the same input you sent them, but any BTC of the right amound) to let you make your everyday withdrawls.This is really a problem in my opinion. Of course, if they're irresponsible they'll squander your deposit and default. But that's the case of any irresponsible bank, in any unmanufactuable currency. Title: Re: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth Post by: batcoin on April 07, 2013, 08:39:37 PM Here's how they do it. The Tax Free Tour http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4o13isDdfY&feature=youtu.be TL;DR version: If you are smart enough to find a tax loophole, you are an asshole and the scum of the earth for utilizing it. You should really pay the highest possible tax rate even if not legally required to do so, and the idea that anyone would ever think otherwise is absolutely unimaginable. |
