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Please verify this for yourself before making any accusations. A few of us have been wondering if the dev fee charged by Claymore is really 2.5% on his Zec miner releases.
 
We were able to isolate the fees charged by Optiminer, and did indeed verify that the fee was 15% as announced. We used the same method to isolate the fees charged by Claymore. For reference, we used version 4.0 and 5.0 to confirm this behavior. What we found is very surprising.
 
During (and after) the 90 seconds where it mines for the developer we do notice serious inconsistencies:
 
 - We counted 111 submitted shares in 90 seconds per hour (2.5%) that the claymore mines for himself.
 - We counted 15 submitted shares in the immediate 90 seconds after the fee period.

Here is a brief extract of logfiles for the two periods of 90 seconds we referred to. See for yourself:
http://pastebin.com/0EFM8Bat
 
Using various methods, we redirected the "dev fee" workers to Nicehash. We set up static difficulty on the workers and noticed that during the 90 seconds the amount of stale shares increased.
 
What can we conclude from this? User shares outside of the dev fee period could be used inside the dev fee period. This means that claymore's fee could be as high as 5% (or more).
Because a new block can appear at any time during the "accumulation" period, this would explain why we've been seeing stale shares. They are being gathered from the previous block.
 
We invite other users to verify this behavior and confirm this theory.

Edit; confirmed wrong. Nicehash ports on Zec aren't working as we assumed for preferred diffs, the miner does mine its dev fee at a lower difficulty.

LMAO !!!  I trust you all more then some one that kind of strong armed us .

good fine

difficulty is lower when devfee mining


and please explain how you set the static difficulty?
because d=xx does not work on nicehash for the zcash

How would you then explain the stales? and as said, we used static diffs and not vardiff.

He asked how to set static diff on nicehash since it's not supported ..I also wonder since I can't find any hints about static diff on nicehash.

First I was going to call you a newbie and that shares can vary in weight... then I noticed you are the owner of Suchpool and probably know what you are talking about.

Maybe others can investigate this issue.

Also you have posted partial log. Please post a whole log which looks like:

21:17:18:845   568   ZEC: Share accepted (125 ms)!

21:17:18:845   568   new buf size: 0
21:17:19:375   a90   ZEC: put share nonce 12c
21:17:19:375   a90   ZEC round found 1 shares
21:17:19:391   568   ZEC: 11/14/16-21:17:19 - SHARE FOUND - (GPU 0)
21:17:19:391   568   send share: {"id": 4, "method": "mining.submit", "params": ["13ZoYSGj6jWnoD26Uo2f17P2VFxPVLQpJQ.7950","0000003e4e09e613","5c0d2a58","2c0100000000000000000000000000","fd4005005b2525e94438570fc81b89b0e4ff97537e7ef8
21:17:19:531   568   got 36 bytes
21:17:19:531   568   buf: {"id":4,"result":true,"error":null}

21:17:19:531   568   parse packet: 35
21:17:19:531   568   ZEC: Share accepted (141 ms)!

I of course understand shares can vary in weight. However this is why I posted asking for others to investigate this, mostly because it's quite late I'm tired and other opinions wouldn't hurt.


Yes you can: https://www.nicehash.com/?p=faq#faqs10
I know it is not properly static but more or a preferred diff, however it is usually working nice to keep a worker diff around the specified limit.

I don't get it, zcash company takes percentage and even the miner developer takes some as well?
I think zcash dev team at least should provide the best miner not just launch a coin and sit back.

this DOES NOT WORK FOR ZCASH. Even if it worked - this is PREFERRED diff, but not the static.


also 5.0 version does not support nicehash for devfee. Have you set static diff for devfee pools?

As I wrote, he "May be" doing it, I didn't post this for people scream at me without any proof or evidence, just so people can pay attention and do proper and better research than I did.

All I really want is to be proven wrong.

EDIT: didn't read you mentioned that it doesn't support nicehash for dev fee. Well to be able to send his dev-fee to nicehash on our workers with "preferred diff" set for analysis we've had to do some proxy tricks.

@ adaseb at first i thought the same, it was some one feeding us BS till i noticed his tag. i read on .

I'm looking further right now and HardSign may seem right, it looks like nicehash is not adjusting the diff as it would usually do on other algorithms..

Whatever rate I get at the pool is roughly 97-98% or so what I have displayed as my total speed. So I am pretty sure this is some bug and he is not overcharging, since it would be very easy to prove.

STOP ! the arguments,  but good to have some prove ...

i've humbly requested CM to lower the fees earlier on but obviously nth was done, you don't like it, don't use it !

his cheerleader coc* suckin' fanboy comes in & bla bla bla that whatever nanonaoano shi*head stepping on everyone's toes.

i think even on eth solo mining or something, boysie had some not so good experience with the devfee.

STOP ! it ! just STOP it !

bypass it !

heh, no more fees for CM !

I re did some checks and compared the diffs (without setting any static diffs nor redirecting anything, just with the logfile from the console) and things seem to match up.
It did mine 22 shares at 242h diff during the 90 seconds it's mining for the dev and the following 90 seconds 11 shares at 636H were mined for myself.

I guess I was wrong, still worth it for someone to investigate deeper.

Sorry for the false alarm.

For Optiminer there were "hidden fees" because he forgot to mention in initial releases his 15% fee. The fact that his miner was also "hiding" that fee, giving the users the impression of always having their full hashrate however 15% is mining in the background to another pool. This is what raised suspicions and got us looking into Claymore's fee to see if they really are what they claim to be.

Cool

hey all good I'm glad you at least care ....some times you gotta do what you gotta do ..

thanks top .

Closed source software is always more prone to debunking attempts vs open source software. When we can't see what the code is doing, we have to be more careful :)

lol, must be some co*k sucker bitch lolz.

cm is already so bloody rich !

those who keeps track or do some monitoring.

i did post up some of his add's.

was just requesting a small reduction, prolly same as eth fees, it seems to be fair imo.

but again, who pays the fees ?

why no linux ? not that he hates linux, linux can "see" much things inside, win version a little tougher cuz it's a closed source.

regardless of linux or win or osx or android, the fees are still being bypassed as he himself knows it.

cool .

He did release a linux version but he has removed it since.
Most cards that can run on Windows also have their equivalent drivers for Linux.

all kidding a side it would be nice if he lowered the fee to eth level fee.

So firstly you stated that I'm a thief, then "Sorry for the false alarm". Nice.
I hope you are happy with 15% fee for Optiminer that forgot to mention it :)

PS. Oh, I forgot that you "isolate" miners, so probably you are happy with any fee.

 LINUX drivers exist for every AMD card that has a Windows driver - specifically including the entire RX4xx series to date.

 AMD *DOES* tend to be a bit behind on releasing drivers for LINUX vs Windows (Windows is the bigger market after all), but they're not normally SEVERAL MONTHS behind any more.

Yep brings into question who is the thief?   Claymore who openly discloses his fee or those circumventing it?   Maybe you all shouldn't let money influence you to this degree.  Claymore is providing us with the ability to compete with the big boys and look what it has done.  It made a fool out of the people who invested in cloud and the owners of the cloud operations im certain are taking tremendous grief since people paid 2500 for 75h/s!   I literally get that out of a 7970 that's 5 years old.  Can you show me the threads created against optiminer with the 15%. Hidden fee?  Did that pos get the same grief as claymore who openly stated that he is charging a fee.  If you don't like it don't fu&$ing use it bottom line.  There are those of us who don't mind one bit paying a fee.  Maybe you should take all your efforts in trying to disparage claymore and work on those that are fucking the community!

Best Regards
d57heinz

Let's start a campaign agains the pools next.  They should be ran for free too no???  0% pool fees for life.  Make pools great again!

BR

Sheesh, this irritates me...look in your zec wallet..If it wasnt for these guys developing the mining tools, your wallet would be empty. So it doesnt matter WHO makes the tools, Claymore, genoil, elvis, bambi or lady gaga...This whole newish routine of picking sides and pitting people against each other is immature and just plain silly...no stupid accusations about fees when ETH mining was the flavor of the month...

Show some respect for those who have taken time to provide us with mining tools, its a respect factor...I mean if a situation does arise where questionable actions/tasks are voiced, then ask...

"This person stole my code", "this person is overcharging you", "this person is stealing your hashrate."..If you dont like the miner or person developing and supporting the miner, move on...There are plenty of tools to use..Personally, I dont get why people complain over a 2.5% fee for using someones program...This isnt piratebay where you just crack and run it..

So this is the Optiminer dev  ?

I'm not at all.

Was just doubting the fee was accurate and it seems to be, end of the story here.

I shouldn't have relied on nicehash's static/preferred diff ports which obviously don't seem to be working right on their equihash variants.

Sorry for rustling your jimmies Claymore. For those calling me a thief, I do use his miner on all my Windows machines and am paying the fee entirely; did you guys see me complain about the amount of fee at all? If he did a Linux release I would use his miner on all my other rigs aswell.

Someone can't raise doubts anymore?