Bitcoin Forum

Hi guys,

Something I struggle with at the moment using bitcoins:

The grandpa challenge:
* I live in Norway. I use bitcoin.
* Grandpa (in-law) is from the U.S. He lives in Italy.
* Grandpa can't speak Italian and it's a LOT of hassle paying me (I prepaid a vacation) from an U.S bank via Italy to a Norwegian bank.
* Grandpa has never used an app and doesn't have the phone for it. Very low understanding of technology, but uses the internet for basic stuff like shopping, email, ..

How can Grandpa pay LCF4EV (me) in bitcoin?  

It must be easy.

Thanks.

He can go to localbitcoins and purchase bitcoins thru cash from a vendor that speaks a language he understands (if such a vendor can be found on localbitcoins).
This step should be as easy as signing up for a website, searching trough the adds, buying btc and sending a message to the seller to arrange a meetup in a public and safe place.

second step:
You install a wallet, generate an address and give this to your grandpa. He uses your address as a withdrawal address from localbitcoins.

Way to hard for grandpa. He can meet up and give someone cash, but not finding them on localbitcoins.


Best so far, but must be another way of doing this than the need to find a local seller and meet up. He lives in a small city in Italy.

use something easier than localbitcoins, like for example coinbase or circle where you have to only open up an account and connect to your bank or even an exchange service like cex.io to buy with credit cards and then buy and send the coins to your address.

the only skills it needs is going to a website, opening an account by filling out name, address, email,.... and transferring money from bank to that service.

Oh, that's one of the scenario that the bitcoin user needs to consider.
what if the person you are dealing with is not really familiar with the use of bitcoins.
yes, they understand some basic stuff and you can teach them how to use bitcoins wallet, but in addition it is another time to spend for them to teach where to track their payment if ever like the hash code.

Well, you can do most of the first step yourself: make your grandpa an account on localbitcoins, find a seller and arrange a meeting in a safe place.

He could also attempt to buy BTC using a credit card from an online vendor... Since this requires more trust in the seller, there are greater risks (in other words: there's a bigger chance you'll get scammed).

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/How_To_Buy_Bitcoins_With_Your_Credit_Card

Do your research before picking an online seller: some of those sites require extensive validation, some have a waiting period, some have the tendency to block accounts, some have a much higher markup than others,... read recent reviews on this forum before attempting to send a link to your grandfather.

If your gramps has a pension or regular income, bitwage is also an option to automatically get a portion of bitcoin from wages or even pension. It does require setting up but they are happy to help. It's perhaps easier than buying crypto with fiat, and he then only has to learn how to send from his wallet.

Very interesting sub topic on how to make crypto more accessible to sub groups.

Have GrandPa use www.Coinbase.com
or
https://indacoin.com/change/us?cur_from=CARDUSD&cur_to=BTC

 8)

FYI:
Skip the localbitcoin ,your grandpa is too likely to be taken advantage of. (Ie. mugged)
If the coinbase or indracoin are too complicated,
Have your Grandpa setup a separate account at his local bank for sending money to you, and just deposit any money into it , he wants you to have.
He gives you the Bank Routing Number and its account #.
You open an account with Capital One 360 Checking Account (or some other online Bank) and link that 360 account to his.
You can then schedule transfers to the 360 account and use the Debit card yourself , or Coinbase or indracoin yourself , if you still want to buy BTC.

He has got good understanding on using internet shopping and related stuff, so he can easily find a bitcoin trader living around his locality through localbitcoins or other trading website. He doesn't have any problem on revealing his identity. So can meet him personally and ask the trader to transfer bitcoin to your btc address and trader will be paid with fiat.

Great input guys. So far i think:

* Localbitcoins is to hard. To hard to find a seller, to much work involved etc. Risk.

* Coindesk and Circle could work, but after a lot of testing, explaining etc to old Grandpa. Don't feel save letting Grandpa copy and paste bitcoin addresses, so some QR or other solution should be considered. Not sure if Grandpa will get QR, pluss he can't use his phone (old phone) and no cam on his computer.

* Bitwage was interesting, but to much work in this case.

* Incacoin.com looks promising. I talked to the "chat service" now and it will work for me to send a link to Grandpa with a pre-filled bitcoin address and the amount.

However it is not possible to send much money using this service. Max is 500 USD pr 7 days (after a while). Also extra security that can fail (e.g having his Italian phone number connected to his U.S bank account). According to the their chat service it is because: "you see, we face lots of fraudulent activity here since our verification is really simple"

Is this the very best and simplest solution for "Grandpa to pay in bitcoin" out there? Must be even a better solution for this problem out there.

I think coinbase is the right place for you, although it's complicated to explain to your grandpa, but it service is already proves trusted, just don't storing your all money to oneline wallet or exchange wallet.
Use a video call to explain or make a simple video to your grandpa is the best choice I think.

Easiest and cheapest way for you to give each other cash.

You go into Voss Veksel- og Landmandsbank and open a joint account with your grandpa. Have an extra ATM card made and mail it to him. Have him go into a Deutsche Bank S.p.A. in Italy and withdraw the money using his card (they have a joint agreement so it should be free). He can also deposit money for free at the same bank and you can withdraw in Norway.

PS: If he's so "out of it" that he can operate a debit card then send him some travelers cheques. They have built in fraud protection, are accepted everywhere like cash and you can insure them at the post.

Yeah, it usually ends up with cash, which is fine - but I had hope for bitcoin in this case.

>He can also deposit money for free at the same bank and you can withdraw in Norway.

Deposit is the issue. He planned to deposit into my Norwegian bank in Italy from his U.S bank - but that seemed to be to hard for him.

But still, thanks!

Check out my PS: above. That might be easier. If you just want him to use Bitcoin for the fun of it then good luck. I have friends in their 30's that I can't get to fully understand Bitcoin.

use a bitcoin ATM
https://coinatmradar.com/country/105/bitcoin-atm-italy/
hope there is one near him

alternatively use something like circle or coinbase

In my opinion coinbase is the best solution for your grandpa, he can deposit his money with his U.S bank even this service is available in italy, then send the bitcoin to you,maybe you need to assist him to use coinbase ( though it's easy like accessing email like you granpa did ) this method also will cut the additional fee that charged by the bank.

Of he wants to send you Bitcoin he has to have some knowledge. But you have mentioned that he knows Internet basics and shoping, so it shouldn't be that hard.
To my opinion the easiest would be to find a local seller on localbitcoins so that he can understand the language and instructions and transfer funds from local bank. Or you can open the localbitcoins account for him and even find the trader and once he transfer the funds you can just withdraw the Bitcoins. That shouldn't be a problem.

Here's the fees if your interested OP.  Buy: 7.7%, Sell: 5.8%

Also I used one of those Bitcoin ATMs in San Francisco and it was enormously confusing and I use Bitcoin. This machine doesn't work like a regular ATM.

you could try to outsource it. by that i mean find a more tech savvy person who would be able to do his task. obviously it should be someone trustworthy. then this person could do the task for him and he could pay in cash. 

well i think i would be easy to teach grandpa some basic things about bitcoin. It is not so complex if you focus on the easiest part of bitcoin such as address, wallet, send or receive bitcoin.

Bittylicious is really easy, grandpa goes to site enters your bitcoin address and confirms to buy whatever amount of bitcoin he wants, he then pays the seller via sort code and account number in his fiat currency ......... easy ?   ;D

I gave him free ways to do it and that costs nearly $5 for every $1,200 sent. Besides I don't think ether of them have a UK bank account with online banking fully set up.

When you start talking about double exchange fees Bitcoin gets expensive. Bitcoin transaction fees are nothing but Bitcoin exchange fees in to and out of fiat are whacko. If you're going to spend Bitcoin directly then, at least, there's only one set of fees (one transaction and one exchange).

first, how long to go from Norway to Italy? if its near then i suggest to you to visit your grandpa and asked him to pay you. but wait, you tell us that your grandpa can uses email and shopping, then another suggestion is you can write email for your grandpa, after that you can make a phone and explain to grandpa and asked him to do exactly what you write in the email. explain with slowly until he understand what your mean. i hope it can helps you.

You could have him share his screen. You would purchase bitcoins in front of him using a credit card or bank transfer or whatever you believe would be easiest for him (while on the phone with him explaining yourself as in depth as you want). You could also get him a bitcoin address while you're doing it very very easily. Better yet he could just buy bitcoins and have them sent directly to your bitcoin address.

I'd have to assume this would be a two step process though because any exchange that accepts credit cards will 99% most likely need to confirm his ID beforehand.

That's honestly how I would do it. Any program where you can control his mouse and keyboard will work! The pros for this would be you just completely take control once the screen is shared and you get to choose whatever reputable exchange you want so you can look for the lowest fees. It's pretty 'grandpa proof' I would say. Just make sure you have step by step instructions for him to share his screen haha! Maybe look up which program would be 'grandpa proof' so he just downloads it and clicks a button or two.

What a complicated situation ! Does any of his neighbors know how to use bitcoin ? Or maybe you can send him some tutorial about using bitcoin, creating a wallet as well as sending bitcoin. I find it is not very hard to explain how bitcoin and the blockchain system work to other people as long as you know how to be patient. Bitcoin is not much different from FIAT. Just try your best

Fail.  Total fucking fail.  This is precisely why Bitcoin is 100% dead.  

Grandpa isn't going to 'go to' localbitcoins.com.  Just asking grandpa to 'go to' a website is a terrible start.  There are 50 additional steps after that.  Like going into the streets to meet a person who might be a nasty criminal trying to defraud grandpa.  

This is 100% fucking stupid.  


Lolololol!  'tutorial'  As if grandpa would now like to learn all about bitcoin in a tutorial.  Anything that requires a tutorial to make a payment is fucked.  100% fucked.  

Bitcoin user adoption is near zero for this very reason.  It will be another 5 years before enough quality infrastructure is put in place to make all this seamless and easy for grandpa.  Until then, grandpa will just have to use Euros.


Stupid fucking Norways don't use Euro.  Looks like you shouldn't have paid for that wop's vacation then.


Have you ever heard of SEPA?  Surely Norwegian banks have some kind of SEPA interface.  (Hint: Bitcoin is not the answer)

U have tough situation here, but i think this is fake situation because if grandpa know how to use internet for basic things like shopping... its not basic by me. If he know how to do it, he would know how to use exchange so sending you bitcoins would be same as shopping... But you made all the time excuses that he cannot do it :D because of this because of that. Story doesn't add up.

http://funnyand.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/No-Grandma-Listen.jpg

I also have this problem, and the way I tackled this, was not to ask Grandpa to do this. I asked him to ask a friend or other family on that side to help him create the account on LocalBitcoin. You cannot expect people to figure out this technology at their age. < The world is moving too fast >

Send a short demo video, if he has no friends to help him. < Snail mail >  

Easiest way would be he create an account to where you did. Then he pay the bitcoin there using his credit card. If there is a payment option for bank or cash then it would be better. Then just send it.
The more easier way is he will buy BTC that will direct to your online wallet.

No, here's the easiest way to do it. It can be drop shipped to any address in the world, it can be used at any business in the world, and it can be loaded from any bank account in the world.

http://www.whichwaytopay.com/admin/Catalog/ImageCatalog/moneycorp-euro-card-large.gif

It's real. I could even add more truth to it which would even make it unbelievable, but I will skip that part.

I thought basic internet skills like shopping would be enough for him to send me the amount in bitcoin. I really thought such a service existed. Well, it kind of does - but it's to hard to use or there are strict limits for the amount/frequency to be sendt.  

In Norway now there is a wallet "war" going on among regular banks which makes transfers and payment really easy. I find Bitcoin to be behind here.  

I have invested well in Bitcoin and this just shows me the great potential of Bitcoin even more. More to be invested :)

Really appreciate all the replies and great suggestions!

Thanks a lot to all so far!  

PS! The problem is not that I will not get the money, I will get them one way or another, regular SWIFT/IBAN/SEPA/Cash - but I would really liked to have used bitcoin in an easy way.

You could Opt for a Xapo Debit card... https://xapo.com/card/ and I checked the FAQ and they will ship the card to Italy. It could possibly

work for Grandpa :

The Xapo Bitcoin Debit Card is a Visa card that you can use for your purchases in stores, online and to withdraw cash at ATMs - all of this directly in bitcoin. The card is accepted in billions of stores and ATMs around the world.   

The Xapo Card works just like any other debit card, but instead of drawing funds from your bank account, it debits purchases directly in bitcoin from your Xapo main wallet. The Xapo Debit Card is not a pre-paid card, so you do not need to pre-load cards with cash to make purchases.
 
The Debit Card is only linked with your Xapo main wallet - never the Vault, or other additional wallets you may create on Xapo. We suggest that you keep the funds intended for your debit card usage in the main wallet, and all other bitcoins meant for daily spending in additional wallets. Long-term savings should be kept in the Vault.
 
Xapo Debit Cards are offered in three different spending currencies: USD, EUR and GBP. You must select this base currency when you order your card, although all transactions are always debited in bitcoin. You can order one card per Xapo account. The debit card is valid for 3 years.

Someone might have to help him..  ::)

I think you will have to wait until YOU are the grandpa and it's your grandchild who is getting the Bitcoins FROM you.

That's a killer idea. It allows him to spend Bitcoin without actually knowing anything about Bitcoin. The only thing I would add is to not keep more in an online wallet than you can afford to lose. Bravo Kprawn.

Great idea, but the problem is the other way around. The problem is to find a way for Grandpa to send me bitcoins, not for me to send him Euro (or such) using my Bitcoins.

Maybe look for an option similar to bionic.nl

There you can simply enter the bitcoin address you want coins sent to and make a transfer using your debit card. Coins are usually sent in the first block to be mined.

Really convenient and not near as expensive as the ATMs.

Yes, you should explain first to him what is bitcoins so that he will know where it came from and its uses. A simple trivia will do. Teach him also how to use bitcoin wllet so that he can manipulate his funds on his wallet. Another thing that can be helpful for him to understand you and bitcoins was watching some bitcoins tutorial in you tube. Who knows granpa will also invest on bitcoins. 😀😀😀

Well then, I guess you're fucked.

forget the whole idea. get some cash off grandpa when you see him. if you have to cover some short term expense then so be it. anything else will be a disaster.

i know loads of people like this. they can't be trusted to buy a plastic bag off amazon without ordering a 50ft fibreglass elephant. someone like that could not obtain and send bitcoin successfully if your life depended on it.

It must be easy,but unfortunately it`s not.

I assume your grandpa doesn`t have any bitcoins to pay you.

He needs to buy btc from localbitcoins or purse.io(using amazon) and he needs to watch out for all the

scammers out there.

First of all it was a giraffe you dang whippersnapper. Secondly when I was in the army my platoon was marching... Zzzzz

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I do believe if you email grandpa a link to download any software where you can control his screen you'll be set. Just don't let him do anything then you don't have to trust him! After you send yourself the $1000 (or whatever) transaction he can play around if he wants to with tiny amounts and lose it all somehow haha.

Wasn't Circle specifically designed for people who have basically no understanding of Bitcoin or technology in general?
If he can use the internet, it must not be that hard to explain to him how to use circle.

I think it's a better option than going through the hassle and risk of letting him do it through Localbitcoins.