Bitcoin Forum

hi guys,

serious question here (really)

a lot of people said avalon was a scam but now they're delivering

is there a good chance the same thing is happening with BFL and they're just late?

BFL has said they're "weeks away from shipping" every single month since October of last year.

There's really no comparison between Avalon and BFL in this regard.

Whether or not BFL is a scam is up to you to decide.

ok, but now they have video evidence of a working unit

plus they have taken the 30k units off their product list

i suspect a scammer would leave that up to make some big chunks of cash?

The video does not show their units hashing. All it shows is a nondescript board hooked up to some diagnostics software. This is many months after they said they would have a prototype in a matter of a few weeks. They even had the guts to raise the efficiency specs to one-up other ASICs that announced better specs, likely knowing that they couldn't deliver such specs for sure. And of course they touted their technology as the best at the time (when it hadn't even really been developed).

There's also Luke-Jr's photos. Even if you want to go with all of this, they have major power issues. The PCB's will need to be redesigned. The cases will also likely need to be redesigned. If they ship, they'll have to ship multiple units just to give customers the Gh/s they ordered. The Mini Rigs are "out of stock" because right now, there's literally no way they could make one. It'd use too much power for any household circuit!

With that said, I think BFL is just a bumbling mess. Time and time again they've shown they don't have what it takes to develop an ASIC - widely overestimating their specs and greatly underestimating delivery times, all the while being smug about it. They need pre-order money to stay afloat especially now after having not delivered anything for so long. You can be sure there's a good number of people cancelling their orders. You'd have to be crazy to order now. If you trust them to ship, I would not expect an order now to be fulfilled until the end of this year, if that. By then, difficulty will be sky high. They weren't even all that great at fulfilling FPGA orders - and those were someone else's chips with the print on top sanded off. Their 500 units/day estimate, or whatever they're floating now, is beyond unrealistic. Even Avalon can not deliver that many units in a week or two and they've shown to be the most professional ASIC manufacturers around here so far.

I can't recall a single person calling Avalon a scam? Who are you referring to? Or do you mean BTCFPGA?

BFL isn't simply late, they are purposely lying.

"Late" is when you're in the car and you encounter traffic which delays you by 5 minutes. Lying is when you haven't even left yet but you say you'll be there in 5 minutes, just some minor traffic problems.

BFL are constantly "just about" to ship. I saw the same tactic with a project manager who I worked under once. His game was just to phrase everything so it sounded like there were only small delays, and to give micro updates and small promises to make everything seem fine. In reality there was sometimes no way the project could get finished but he had to lie or the customer would pull their business. And so it is with BFL..

To be honest with you, it could've been faked.

has anyone been able to get refunds?

I know a few people who have requested a refund, And after a few days (due to correspondence issues) Have received money back.

HOWEVER, They are no longer giving refunds as all NEW purchases are final, And before this, Only a fiat payback was allowed, NOT BTC.

That's not how reality works.

I don't like to be the one throwing around accusations and telling people what to do with their money.

However I am not all rosy about BFL either and I thought I was pretty clear on that. If you give them your money, you should not expect a whole lot based on their past full of lies and deceit. You might eventually get something... or you might not... that's how I feel the situation is for BFL customers at this point. I would definitely not say if you order you'll get something. Don't get your hopes up - caveat emptor.

I don't think they are scammers in a classical sense. They are just utterly incompetent Cowboys. Utterly incompetent when it comes to project management, ASIC design and PR - but masterful in bending the truth.

Result might be the same in both cases: You loose your money

Well, at this point people have two choices : Avalon or BFL. Avalon not available and BFL alwyes late! So if you want ASIC where can you get one? Build it yourself right? Lets hope for the best and to BFL caveat venditor.

Actually i think ASICMiner is seriously considering selling their boards pretty soon..

Even if it's not a scam, you should never give your money to a company that operates with such incompetence and unethical behaviour. You're guaranteed to get burned one way or the other.

I'd like to buy some ASICs , but I've now accepted that there are none available to buy and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that (any time soon).

I think it's pretty scary that there are people who otherwise hold positions of responsibility in their day-to-day lives, making decisions that affect people, animals or household plants, remain in genuine doubt about this.