Bitcoin Forum

Finally, after this blockchain hype we see right now, attracting so many thinkers , projects and budgets, many of the intelligent will finally debunk the real power of bitcoin itself.

If this is because of its feature to be a mostly uncorrelated investment class, a money transfer system or together with Rootstock on top some smart contract / dapp enabling super asset, who knows?

I say it will.

 ;D

For the bankers to jump into bitcoin they would need to see some profit by doing so. The bankers are part of the status quo and benefit from how things are running at the moment. The only way the bankers would jump on the bitcoin train is if they get defeated, in other words, if bitcoin shows to be too resilient and strong to be dominated and submitted. If bitcoin shows to survive all possible attacks, the banks will give up and start thinking about ways to make profit while dealing with the new bitcoin reality, just like at the beginning they tried to shut down the internet, they failed, and had to adapt.

I personally don't think they can't fully kill bitcoin unless they shut the internet down, which would is stupid since it would have a negative impact on their business.

Yep.

First also bankers will see bitcoin as a personal investment alternative, but we also hear it from classical portfolio managers seeking for alternative uncorrelated investment classes, so IS bitcoin...

It might be, but personally I doubt that it is going to change the opinions from a majority of bankers and other financial sector workers. From what I know a lot of it is just a proposed blockchain system that bankers want to have so they can monitor their users more effectively, not use Bitcoin along with it.

Also, banks will not yield to bitcoin. Banks and governments have all but negative things to say about bitcoin ever since it has grown in popularity. Most of the recent developments in the legislature in countries around the globe have been to ban or discourage its use. The US has classified it not as currency but a commodity. Which means, Bitcoin will be under different laws with regard owning it. Hence, it does generate adverse effects against holding Bitcoins.

Instead, I think the governments will just develop their own cryptocurrency that would replace paper/fiat currency. However, this will not be mined but it will also be similar to current fiat. It will still represent gold held by the state.

I don't think so. And I don't hope for it. We don't need bankers to join Bitcoin for it becoming an established currency. People that want bankers in are mainly focusing on possible short term increases in fiat valuation which are meaningless if you take the whole perspective. Bankers don't share the values of Bitcoin. Having them join in Bitcoin's infancy may actually be a risk for its future, as decentralization might be put at stake.

Bankers generally have a great feeling of self importance. That's why they still think, they can compete with Bitcoin by launching their own centralized altcoins - years after the climax of altcoin scams within the crypto community. However the harsh reality for them is that they can't compete and are no longer needed as gatekeepers of money. Bitcoin is the end of fiat money. And the end of fiat money will be the end of banking as we know it. The existing power structures built on the fiat debt scam will collapse.

ya.ya.yo!

This is what I think. Everyone who are into cryptocurrencies already know that Bitcoin is where they should be if they want to make use of the "blockchain". They hype for the blockchain buzz word that was created so that people who ride that trend will make money out of it like what R3 is doing. Some will write books and sell snake oil in conferences. But truly what they want is to make money even if they do not really know what they are getting into. It is all a scam.

Your statement and your title do not match? " debunk the real power of bitcoin itself. " What needs to be debunked? I do not get what you saying. The Blockchain was just a poor excuse not to use Bitcoin. The controversy surrounding Bitcoin has pushed Banks to shift the attention to "The Blockchain" The new Cool term for Bitcoin.

A lot of events like MtGox and Silkroad did a lot of damage and people were hesitant to invest in Bitcoin, but if they called it something else, < insert Blockchain technology > then investors will ignore the fact that it was linked to Bitcoin. They also wanted their own flavor of Bitcoin, and the technology behind Bitcoin was the opportunity to use Bitcoin, but with their own label.  

Yes Blockchain will push bankers and Investors. Bankers will also create a system to adjust to the growing cryptocurrency financial system. But their way of thinking is to create a blockchain system that is modified for the banks to survive amidst the growing virtual economy. Hope they will just adopt bitcoins but they dont want that since it will be their downfall.

These guys are sharks, they only want control, as you can see the R3 project is falling apart. It will be good to see them adopt Blockchain but with blockchain there is transparency and all your activities can be traced by any jack and these people are not known to be transparent

Mybe my English is causing some misinterpretation issues, sorry.

I say all blockchain derivatives, esp private ones (like R3), will not have most of the unique features of bitcoin itself and just if bankers / portfolio managers seek for alternatives / uncorrelated Investments to tune their results they would need to invest into bitcoin itself. All that blockchain hype just leads to get them learn exactly this an much more about bitcoin.

I don't think this would be so easy. Bankers are very smart and interested only in profit. They will use the blockchain technology for their own purposes but I can't beleive this will push them to Bitcoin just like that. They will fight the Bitcoin to the very end and accept it only if there will be no other options. And they will make the profit out of it.

Bankers will not move towards bitcoin or start accepting it as payment method rather they have actually started developing centralized crypto based on blockchain tech with centralized nodes, complete regulation/monitoring of every transaction and also don't think that will have any transparency.

When an industry is giving out billions in bonuses while everyone else has to visit foodbanks; cost isn't a significant factor especially when the public purse will pick up the bill if it all goes wrong.

The idea that the banking industry will be disrupted by this technology is almost laughable. Especially since they have the capability to suck the few knowledgeable engineers, if they haven't already, out of the resource market and negotiate with the authorities to accept their alt-coin as tax payments. All that remains then is let the miners fight it out for dominance and take over the winners. Bitcoin (or it's alt) then becomes the inter-bank transfer service for VISA and Mastercard since the users are treated just as cash cows to the tech without a voice on the chain; they won't even notice.

The Chicago School have their fingerprints all over this, now, which is why decentralization is resisted so vehemently and the economists micro manage the software direction. It is starting to look more and more like Bitcoin is the dieing gasp of a rejected economic school as the world lurches to the right in a misguided attempt to get rid of them.

It did not have to be this way.

They already do - lookup Swiss bank Vontobel launched a tracker product on bitcoin as underlying - they get some fees due the selling.

Next will by portfolio managers mixing this into their stock selection.

Ernst & Young (CH) just starts accepting bitcoin for payments

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1696028.msg17016187#msg17016187

When will PwC - big blockchainers follow ?

Deloitte, Accenture .... ¨?

They all first analyzed bitcoin  -> blockchain -> finally bitcoin

And pls start your brain - who do they consult?

Another top brain that blows into this horn:



https://youtu.be/d10j1lgxBXk


Very goooood!

Banks in developed countries already know about bitcoin, but it's a fiat competitor - so it won't be adopted by them.
Blockchain on the other hand it gaining entrance into the banking industry.

banks are already making there own crypto. They dont want BTC

Not true. Vontobel, Fidorbank already want BTC...


And this dude exactly blows into my horn:


Blockchain here blockchain there, will solve all our issues and dreams.....


You wanna go and try it out like you stepped into the internet 20 years ago?

Good, go and download a bitcoin wallet. That works!

https://youtu.be/ZF0iCdYkXTM

Blockchain and Bitcoin are totally separate of eachother.
Banks may take some interest in Bitcoin in the coming future if price is high enough and there are enough unique users,
but most are going to focus on Blockchain technology and how they can use it for their own purposes- banking ledgers/ transaction record storage.

Hu?  Bitcoin runs on the blockchain?  Try to separate it...

But that is useless if they pretend to compete with an open permissionless borderless blockchain like the bitcoin blockchain. Is like competing with an intranet vs the internet, they will never win, it's already set in stone. Specially when they remove physical cash, everyone will go to bitcoin because no one likes having 0 financial privacy.

The idea that the internet will ever be shut down is a fairytale.  There would be chaos by morning if the internet didnt work,  they have even talked about making internet access a basic human right.   

The most important asset any company has, regardless of the industry that company is involved in, are its records. From real estate to high tech to banking your database is your lifeblood. A businesses database holds a record of every action that company has ever performed from its core business to its payroll processing and everything in between.

Companies are always looking for a better and more secure database. One sloppy or malicious employee, virus, hacker or equipment failure can ruin a company. Information technology departments religiously backup data and ensure that company employees have unfettered access to the information they need to keep the company moving forward.

The research into Bitcoins Blockchain happening all over the world has nothing to do with any anarchistic/libertarian wet dream. Companies are not looking to be on the forefront of a new world order or a government destabilizing new money. They simply want to find out if this new distributed database system can keep their records safe and accessible. The research into "Blockchain technology" will have no positive or negative effect on Bitcoin whatsoever. It may however make the companies that use it stronger than they have ever been before (that includes banks and governments too).

I don`t see a "blockchain hype" anymore.There`s no hype about blockchain in the news,social media,etc...

I wouldn`t say that blockchain is a "trojan horse".Sounds like a virus. ;D

Well bitcoin has seen a lot of different changes and so is the bock chain, but since the bitcoin has been going up in terms of price and the number of people using it has increased made all investors and bankers have a second thoughts about whether they have to adapt to the current internet consumer base that is using the bitcoin as a mean of payment , but the nature of bitcoin and how dicentrelized it is and how unstable it could be pushes away the investors which they think on the long term bases if in the future government's policy about bitcoin and how are they gonna accept or reject it as a global currency.

Your name is Shenzou which is the name of a Chinese spacecraft so I assume you're Chinese. Do you realize the Chinese day traders are playing with Bitcoin right now like it's a game of Pai Gow? Eventually some big Chinese whale is going to play another game and dump all his coins. Money with its value based only on speculation instead of industry is too volatile. Be careful buying into the Chinese gambling hype or you could lose what little money you have (assuming you're not a whale trader waiting to get rich off of the desperation of the poor).

Not sure what kind of news you are looking at.

Checkout IBM, Infosys, Microsoft, EPAM, Accenture, EY , Deloitte .... lot of the big players are heavily looking into BLOCKCHAIN with many of their brains, consultants and devs. So they all need to learn about bitcoin first. If you learn bitcoin you need to use it and may stay in it & go improve it as well.

Yeah - could be seen as a virus.

I can't agree that this is a trojan horse. Banks know exactly what they are doing. They are not stupid. It is true that they are very interested in blockchain technology and they are making serious preparations to use it in their business. But that doesn't mean they will accept Bitcoin automaticly, not at all. As far as I know some banks are testing and considering use of Bitcoin but this is still far away from acceptance.

Because of bankers only interested making profits why they should push and fight bitcoin to the end? Instead of invest in bitcoin and make their own profits of it, as we do know that bitcoin value increases over time from nothing to $770/BTC1 right now, and we can assume that it's nothing compare to what will we get in the 5-10 years later.

Yup i agree with you, the bankers and investors must adopt blockchains technology, if they want be survive in the banking business although they must accept small fees for remittance business is like just get 1% fees  ;D , as we know the bankers take fees 2% above.
There are no choice except adopt blockchains technology or the costumers of banks will moves to bitcoins because small fees in the bitcoin.

guess what, man? if you think everyone uses bitcoin and then give up using fiats, the fiats down so are the bitcoin. anyway i don't understand the 'trojan horse' mean. ???

So e.g. Vontobel already does ...

I see bankers on their individual level using Bitcoin and making profit out of it but banks itself as an institution or a sector of the economy is not something I am seeing happening anytime soon simply because of the fact that their activities are greatly regulated by the Central Bank as it is called here which is the mouthpiece of government in that sector and until government gives the go ahead then they will be operating outside the curfew of their powers in which I am sure bank CEO's won't want to try.

If investors would buy Bitcoin... That means >50% of the Bitcoin's volume to be traded I bought by them. I am not that sure it'd be a good idea because the price would go down and up whenever they want and need to. Right now the volume is going to $13B, and them owning millions or billions of dollars in BTC would manipulate so easily the price!

best way to think about it.

database= layer one
relational database= layer two
blockchain relational database = layer 3
...
bitcoin =(way above) layer 10

all the bankers and investors seem to be playing around with blockchain relational database which is no where near bitcoin. but has advantages compared to their old RDBMS.(relational database)

yes hyperledger seems to be bankers big project which is a divergence of blockchain tech and yes it may include other features such as PoA(multi signed proof of authority) and other things. making it like 5-6 layers. but still not deep and diverse enough to meet bitcoins strengths.

but bankers wont use bitcoin due to their regulatory policies of handling fiat. so to be abl to use something backed by low level blockchain tech, they need to build their own to be in full control. and secure it with extra layers of other tech. because 'blockchain' alone is WEAK
block chain without any 'proof-of-__' is not exciting or secure.
blockchain without cryptography is not exciting or secure.
so ofcourse hyperledger is going to be a few layers beyond basic blockchain. just like bitcoin is many layers beyond blockchain.
but hyperledger will user different cryptographyy, different 'proof-of-___' and other different added layers of security/tech

i see it more so that the bankers of hyperledger are trojan horsing bitcoin. by financing blockstream, blockchain.info, bitcoinj, etc, classic(via Bloq) and xt(via r3). to disrupt bitcoin while all the bitcoin devs help grow hyperledger

I was listening to a radio program and they were talking about Blockchain technology being incorporated into Chinese banking system and they didn't talk about Bitcoin once. The reported asked about Bitcoin and they didn't even acknowledge the question. IMO they're, banks, are going to try and do an end run around Bitcoin BC they're boxed out right now.

Will they succeed or will they fail is the question?

Because larry summer had been said about that.

All those blockchain bubblers try to ride this hype and collects VC .  But once it comes down to realize it they all need expertise and you can ONLY get it by deep dive into bitcoin - bingo: I cannot see how a real blockchain will work w/o a token and game theory - could you?

Rest of 'blockchainer's are poor distributed database monkeys  - noSQL is older...

There is not just black  OR white in our world. FIAT might always be there and will go born and bust after its usual life cycle.

The Trojan Horse is used here as a metaphor that means blockchain buddies MUST look into bitcoin for deeper understanding of the technology. And so I assume most of those 'brains' will get infected by bitcoin ( + its idea), because that works already and has much more behind than just pegging FIAT or stock onto a closed blockchain.

No; bankers they use blockchain or something related to that only for their purposes. Recently, the LHV the largest independent Estonian bank was experimented using a kind of programmable money worth 100,000 Euros using a private blockchain said CUBER.

The shake out will come and all the blockchainers will come back into bitcoin.  Andreas is mostly right and so word mighty

https://youtu.be/SMEOKDVXlUo

 ;D

What's bad if we will see blockchain in many task? BitFury actively works on developing and integrating blockchain system and their last project in Georgia was very successful. If something is good, of course it will attract people and there is nothing bad in it.
Someone said here what will happen if internet shut down in this world :S haha it's simply impossible and people can't imagine if this happen.

The Trick will be to see if you as a investor can spot the real Blockchain technologies from the fake Blockchains. {OneCoin} ..... There are many

scammers out there that are riding the Blockchain hype and selling snake oil. We will see a lot more scams and Shitcoins doing the rounds, until

people recognize Bitcoin as the de facto coin.  ;)

It doesnt matter at all that internet will be shut down in the most of the country on Earth, if there will be at least one full node that is still working.
That one, last node will still contain whole bitcoin stored on the hard disk, all chains, every transaction etc.

Take a look from the other perspective: if Internet will go off, the banking system will not work too, but blockchain will survive thanks to the idea of Satoshi Nakamoto to develop it this way.

In fact, I have no idea what would have to happen to see internet not working at all on our planet, maybe a nuclear war?

Listen to the end (or start at 4:00)

Here you go, speaker gets it right - best 'blockchain' investment IS in Bitcoin!

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/09/why-the-retail-sector-is-pretty-dismal-right-now-pro.html

And 'blockchain' needs incentive to run.

Yep, they will soon bend low for bitcoin to climb on to the top and ride the wheel.
But bankers, those stubborn heads, they only put interest in matters where there is profit. If they get an opportunity to kick bitcoin out of the way, they will really take it.

The Horse-Door is Widely Open Now


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/ubs-ceo-sergio-ermotti-blockchain-almost-a-must-have-for-business.html

IBM got first one on the hook:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR20CI8rzqA&index=4&list=PLfCLHgbIf68mXSY553F-1lzpEmPQ7h3jQ

Try harder

https://www.we-trade.com/

Too much middlemen!

#hv_, Blockchain based technologies will be a very bad Trojan Horse into Bitcoin, if they create a whole new Alt coin or

Blockchain based technology and this gets to be the norm and not Bitcoin. The Banks are taking the best part of Bitcoin and

stripping it of their token and replacing it with their token. If people start using these alternatives, then Bitcoin will become

less popular and eventually be replaced by these technologies. The Banks are using Blockchain technologies as the Trojan

Horse to get rid of Bitcoin.  >:(

Bitcoin has some really orthogonal features, and these are getting learned in most such blockchain projects.

Thats good.

I m totally confident that we see the end of private blockchain experiments soon, since all deeper dives always end in DLTs, old shit. At best banks will launch some legacy system upgrade projects but will accept Bitcoin finally.

If inherent features of Bitcoin are not self-selling / disruptive enough to be accepted as a better money, then Bitcoin will fail anyway.