Bitcoin Forum

Gavin and Evoorhees are trying to please everyone by attempting to put everyone's thoughts on cruise control, while almost everyone else is either hitting on the accelerator or slamming on the brakes.

i like that :)

You didn't answer to your own title..

Again, tell me why Gavin and Evoorhees are wrong?

What dirty work are you talking about?

they say that because they know bitcoin has some unpopular flaws and dont want to be blamed for it later

They want people to focus on bitcoin's potential world-changing properties rather than being blinded (and potentially disillusioned) by its exchange rate.

To each his own. Had they told people TO invest into bitcoin they would be in a bigger pile of shit.

They haven't done anything wrong in this regard.

OP is just butthurt because he listened to them and is thinking "I should have put more money into bitcoin when it was $20"....lol

Not that this really has anything to do with politics, but I think I understand what you mean.
And this is EXACTLY the point of view that bitcoin developers and people involved in creating future for bitcoin should have. I would have serious concerns about this project if the lead people in it would spread unconfirmed rumors and try to turn people into any side of the discussion without any serious confirmations.

Hindsight is 20/20. How mad do you think people would be if they said to invest heavily in Bitcoin and then the price dropped? Their goal is to see the success of Bitcoin from a technical and community standpoint, not make people money (or protect people from losing money). Why people in this forum feel any sort of entitlement from the devs is beyond me. Anyone can start contributing code to the main client, and given enough time, could be considered a "core dev" like Gavin and others. Do you hire programmers as your financial advisors? If so, then go ahead and listen to the financial advice of the core devs. Otherwise, STFU.

WARNING! WARNING!

Only invest time or money into USD or Euro that you can afford to lose.

I want Evoorhees and Gavin to admit that bitcoin will not go to zero.

As for dirty work it is self explanatory.

Why would anyone be angry at them for that? It's sound advice for any investment.

I think my breaking point was when he spoke of speculators chasing squirrels.

It was quite a funny movie though - http://youtu.be/xrAIGLkSMls

Ok, I've changed the title to be nicer, but for the most part most of my messages were adult like.

I believe they have several times back when the price was dropping to $2 and everyone was giving up on it.

Something like...as long as someone is willing to mine bitcoins, it will keep going.

Obviously Gavin et al can be identified and obviously have a big responsibility within the Bitcoin community.
They are just covering their asses in case something goes wrong, which you know, has happened before...

Uhh, that's pretty sound investment advice.


It can (and on a long enough time scale, will) go to zero.



You should probably calm down, BTC is an internet currency, not a religion.

Yes one should if one feels like it, but one should do so while remembering that one isn't actually spreading the good news because of the goodness of their heart, but because of their desire to more money, or at least there's a mixture of the two reasons.  

Quiet.

sorry, but I think Voorhees has some very rational, level-headed advice.  for sure he believes bitcoin is going to go astronomical, and he is devoting all his efforts in support of this belief.  but he's also correct in the belief that it could easily falter.  in the short term  :)

The devs and bitcoin foundation have to be level-headed about this, and show some financial responsibility. They can't act as buy hypers. No one knows how far the price will go down again once something happens with an exchange, or some other issue like that.

You *can* be sure, though, that if that happens that we will stick around. We play the long game. Cryptocurrencies (and Bitcoin at that) are an idea whose time has come and won't just go away, but adoption *might* go slower than what people are hoping for now. It will be a hard and even painful climb to get there, not an all-expensed-paid trip to an island.

Bitcoin was never meant as an investment but as a way to freely send bits of currency around the world. So that's what the focus is on: adoption.

I said they should keep quiet.

Ok, sorry, I reacted too quickly and made an ass out of myself.

If only people at the time were rational and would keep it to "this guy is great talker, but it's not like he can do supernatural things, obviously".

On-topic:

I think Gavin and Erik have a right to their opinion just as you and I have. They are often asked by the press if it would be a good idea to invest in Bitcoin and saying that it's unwise to put all your eggs in one basket is excellent advice, under any circumstance.

In fact, although I am quite certain Bitcoin will survive and will go to $1M per coin, I keep telling friends and family never to invest more than they are prepared to lose. They can always decide to follow their own judgment.

That's like being angry at the Tor developers for warning Tor  is 'experimental software' so due to the success of Silk Road they should've instead lied and ran around like salesmen pushing Tor on everything promising phony guarantees in order for you to have been the first SR and rich now.

What's wrong with warning people from "investing" their livelyhood into an experimental project run out of control way before its prime?

WOW.

Are you for real ? Are you seriously annoyed that someone on the internet didn't tell you to put all your money (and more) into a brand new, never been done before "thing"?

Try this piece of advice then: put all your money plus all you can borrow into LTC .       

Everyone "knows" that a litecoin "should" be worth 1/4 what a bitcoin is worth.   

No? Didn't think so.   

Seems the only correct advice someone can give  ???

I would be more offended if he would have said "sell everything you have, borrow as much as you can and put it all in Bitcoin  8)"

What I tell to people is this:

1. Bitcoin in my opinion is a huge thing that can transform everything.
2. No one knows what will actually happen, there were no historical precedents.
3. Do not put more money than you can afford to lose tomorrow. Do not borrow anything, do not put more than 50% of your savings, do not touch money you already have made plans for. It's tempting, but just don't.
4. Before selling more than $10 bucks, learn about Bitcoin, how it works, why it works, its weaknesses, political associations etc.
5. Be careful about viruses, passwords, lost backups, bugs, human mistakes, panics on exchanges, DDoSes etc.
6. Check and double-check and triple-check before doing anything. Play with small sums before jumping in.
7. Never blame anybody except for yourself.
8. You most probably will have disappointment at some point in time. You will be scammed, your money will be stolen or lost. Prepare for it.
9. Never trust anyone including this message.

It's a great journey ahead of us, but it's bumpy. Don't come without equipment and proper training.

It can go to zero. Something much better could come around and replace it. Gold isn't lasting forever people say... So why should BTC?

Probably in future we could make something better if large group of people put some interest in it...

It's a basic equation of risk vs. reward.
In poker and other forms of gambling it's known as EV calculations (expected value).

Say you make a double or nothing bet of $100 with 60% chance of winning. EV is then (60% * 200) + (40% * 0) - $100 or $20, meaning that every time you place that bet you win $20 on average if you make this bet many times. It is however pointless and untrue to claim that if you do this just once and win to claim that you found a system with 100% ROI.

You have to look forward to properly evaluate risk and reward. You can't look back and say "I could have gotten 400% return on my money the last few weeks" because you ignore the risk that you took upon you at the start.

So why don't people take their life savings and bet on sports when the strongest team is playing one of the weak ones with 90% chance of winning ? Because the unexpected can always happen.

Saying you should only invest what you can afford to lose is just sound general advice. And it's something we've seen many times in the past. Bubbles are stronger the more ignorant people are about general financial risk. Around 2000 many internet stocks gained 20 to 50 times its initial value, many stocks easily went from $2 to $100 within months. And the same thing happened, many heated discussions from fanatics that insulted and ridiculed anyone talking about the chance of a crash, who could only see one thing: if I put all my life savings into this thing I'll get rich. In general, once you feel you have to rush and get in today or else you fear missing out on a great opportunity, it'll usually end in tears.

otherwise it would pop like 2011, ppl lose fate, coin dies, miserably. Although, if you ignore what they say, ignore the price, and justify it yourself, you would come to a conclusion as "Dump all your shit into bitcoin".

as you wrote, it CAN change the world.  It is a possibility, not a certitude.

YES! Even in the early Christian church, the leaders of the church were criticizing people who they thought were preaching wrong things about Jesus.

You want people on the internet to give you investment advice (for free!) so that you can blame someone else if something goes wrong. Sorry, that's not how it works, you'll have to make your decisions yourself.

If you still insist otherwise, I'll make a deal with you: Tell me how much money you have and I'll tell you a couple of things that you can invest in.

"Warning signs at the entrance to roller coasters are meant to help guests visiting theme parks decide if riding the ride will be safe for them. These warning signs offers helpful information about the condition of the ride, such as if it's bumpy, goes upside down or fast. Things to consider before boarding a roller coaster include your personal fears and health conditions. It's up to you, the visitor, to use common sense regarding the decision to ride or not."..

http://www.ehow.com/info_8236061_warning-signs-roller-coasters.html


sit back relax enjoy the ride :)

Okay Jimbo, time for you to lay off on the Kool-Aid for a while :)

Sound advice.

Absolutely.  Anyone who thinks otherwise is spending too much time looking in the rear-view mirror.  There may be a lot of people who are quite stressed right now because of what MIGHT happen when Mt Gox opens back up in about 90 minutes, because they 'bought more coins" at $200+ and panic-sell because other exchanges are at $75 - $86 right now.

You can't could have.  I could wish I would have bought in more when I first found out about Bitcoin in Jan 2012, but I can't could have either.  Blaming someone else for your perceived lost opportunity because they were (and probably always will) suggest caution is an unwillingness to take responsibility for your own actions, or lack thereof.

Haha, if only Gavin and Erik had pumped bitcoin more we wouldn't be in the mess. 

I'd like to see Gavin and whoever else has public attention explain how it's a GREAT IDEA to invest a SMALL AMOUNT of bitcoin.

Purchasing a small amount of coin supports the project, and allows the user to have fun experimenting while potentially (probably) getting a great ROI.

Many pundits recommend a variety of assets and then piggyback on the success of whichever ones happen to rise in price. Don't believe the hype.

The only advice people need to heed is to risk what you can afford to lose and not take things too seriously.

well, if everyone only invests of what he afford to lose, how could bitcoin replace the currency of the world

If bitcoin represented 1% of the currency of the world, and 1% of the invested capital of the world... all of our heads would explode.

Yep, ofc he was right  ???

I personally am very pro Bitcoin, but think that anyone who sees Bitcoin as the future currency of the world is a bit delusional.  Okay, maybe more than a bit.

A viable, possible replacement for Paypal, Western Union, etc. ?  Maybe.  Replacing the USD?  don't see that happening.  I'd like to be proven wrong, but just don't see it.

Depending on timeframe. In the next 10 years, yeah maybe just paypal replacement, anything is possible thereafter

yeah but Jesus didn't get popular overnight...he had a pretty extreme DDOS before he was resurrected and that took 3 days, and God was involved, and had to hang around a it before assention, even then most of his foloowers were crucified or fed to the lions

You are barking up the wrong tree. See here (http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/in-which-noobs-learn-lessons-and-pay-for-the-privilege/).