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Title: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Cryptotraider16 on December 14, 2016, 08:46:22 PM guys what is BTC have POS? what you think may happen..;)?
like 2-5% a year..;) Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: rapazev on December 15, 2016, 02:27:00 AM you mean "what if bitcoin had pos", right?
i'm sure most users will hate that, but i think it would be good. perhaps that is what is needed to end the chinese "centralization". Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Wind_FURY on December 15, 2016, 02:37:08 AM That is probably the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. Plus the second poster saying that it will be good because it will end Chinese "centralization" deserves to be banned just by suggesting it. Have you not learned anything by reading and hanging around in the forum?
But of course this is a troll thread right? Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: GenTarkin on December 15, 2016, 02:38:30 AM only someone who wants BTC to fail miserably would propose this.
POS is a shit sham. Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: franky1 on December 15, 2016, 02:43:00 AM its the penny pinchers that dont want to put any effort in and want free handouts and not caring for security who propose POS
the silly thing is that even if bitcoin went over to POS (destroying security) wont actually spread the wealth. the rich will get richer and the poor wont get anything. so it helps no one. those that think POS is good are ones that have used crapcoins where there are only a couple dozen->hundred users and so those users see some income due to lack of activity/competition/choice.. yet on a scale of bitcoin they wont see an income. we should not change bitcoins mechanism unless it provides MORE security we should not change bitcoins mechanism for the fake dream of spreading wealth security should be paramount Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Soros Shorts on December 15, 2016, 03:04:52 AM What's POS? Piece of shit? Proof of shit?
Explain. Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Swisscoinex on December 15, 2016, 03:11:39 AM What's POS? Piece of shit? Proof of shit? Explain. He obviously meant Proof of Stake. It's an utterly bad idea, here's a nice pdf explaining why: https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf (https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf) Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: ranochigo on December 15, 2016, 03:17:44 AM POS is a bad idea for Bitcoin. The ASICs designed just for SHA256 would render farms useless since alt coins don't really have much value. Even though arguably, POS is better for the environment, it is susceptible to monopoly by larger corporations. Companies who own many Bitcoins would be able to generate more of them and get even richer. Governments can easily control Bitcoin.
Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: ~Bitcoin~ on December 15, 2016, 03:40:47 AM guys what is BTC have POS? what you think may happen..;)? Bitcoin doesn't need to be POS, few of the altcoins which can't deliver more than what other alts already have try to lure users with annual interest in the form of POS. like 2-5% a year..;) Proof of stake = Proof of shit Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: iamTom123 on December 15, 2016, 03:54:12 AM That is probably the dumbest idea I have ever hear of. Plus the second poster saying that it will be good because it will end Chinese "centralization" deserves to be banned just by suggesting it. Have you not learned anything by reading and hanging around in the forum? But of course this is a troll thread right? I am wishing it is just another troll because the idea can be dumb as what some here are suggesting it is. However, this is posted by a Senior Member and the first reply is coming from a member with a good ranking. I hope they scan their brains first lol...anyway am just joking and has no intention to be mean to anybody here. Let's just laugh and be happy all here. Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Red-Apple on December 15, 2016, 04:16:12 AM What's POS? Piece of shit? Proof of shit? Explain. there is nothing to explain, he is advertising his scamcoin called leo by creating these types of nonsense topics all around the forum. also i am wondering why nobody out of these comments thought of Point of Sale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_sale :D https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Tablet_POS_HORECA13.jpg/220px-Tablet_POS_HORECA13.jpg Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Bananana on December 15, 2016, 04:23:55 AM guys what is BTC have POS? what you think may happen..;)? like 2-5% a year..;) Proof of Stake might work but 50% attack for POS is much easier then Proof of Work and hard fork BTC is a no no. So, better to just make another coin call it BTC-POS . Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: MingLee on December 15, 2016, 04:28:19 AM guys what is BTC have POS? what you think may happen..;)? If Bitcoin switched to proof of stake the value would increase considerably, however a lot of miners would be pissed with that move and there would be a huge backlash from the community.like 2-5% a year..;) As for the stake interest rate, it would maybe, at best be something like 0.9%. There is no way it should even be THAT high, and it would likely be much, much lower than that. Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Jet Cash on December 15, 2016, 05:56:09 AM POS - point of sale is already contained in Bitcoin as long as you don't try to convert to fiat, and you trust that the transaction will be confirmed.
POS - proof of stake can't really be used imho until all the coins are mined. Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Cryptotraider16 on December 15, 2016, 05:59:22 AM you mean "what if bitcoin had pos", right? i'm sure most users will hate that, but i think it would be good. perhaps that is what is needed to end the chinese "centralization". Yes ,i mean that...;) Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Cryptotraider16 on December 15, 2016, 06:03:32 AM Thanks to all replays...as i see ansver is NO,LOL no proff of stake for BTC,its bad idea..;)
Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: QuestionAuthority on December 15, 2016, 06:48:59 AM What's POS? Piece of shit? Proof of shit? Explain. there is nothing to explain, he is advertising his scamcoin called leo by creating these types of nonsense topics all around the forum. also i am wondering why nobody out of these comments thought of Point of Sale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_sale :D https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Tablet_POS_HORECA13.jpg/220px-Tablet_POS_HORECA13.jpg LOL that's the first thing I thought of when I saw POS. I thought, doesn't bitpay install those for businesses? Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: jacaf01 on December 15, 2016, 07:42:15 AM That would lead to centralisation of the network. those having bags of Bitcoin will be the beneficiary of this move, Bitcoin will never go that route
Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Juggy777 on December 15, 2016, 07:48:47 AM This is definitely a very bad idea and second since that thrash button. What's wrong with op here and that person who comes and says it's a good idea. Why are you trying to lure the newbie into making a bad decision. Thankfully there are yet many aware members who take time to explain it, the Pdf is really good. Op don't suggest such dumb ideas, help the community grow not plan to destroy it. And lock the thread since you got your answer.
Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: CraigWrightBTC on December 15, 2016, 07:49:40 AM guys what is BTC have POS? what you think may happen..;)? Bitcoin will there is no values the price will going down comunity of bitcoins will move on the coins that has fair developers, or all of cryptos coins will dead forever.like 2-5% a year..;) Bitcoin become really famous because of there are no people who control it, it be builded by comunity. The altcoins that were die right now because of there is POS. Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: kiklo on December 16, 2016, 05:59:58 AM guys what is BTC have POS? what you think may happen..;)? like 2-5% a year..;) It won't happen for 2 reasons, 1. The Chinese mining Pools that control over 51% of BTC mining would never agree to it. 2. The BTC community is too cowardly to face off against the Chinese miners. as far as the Security of PoS verses PoW: Change the algo to POS and problem solved.. PoS alone is not secure enough. Set the minimum stake age like an hour the Difficulty # will be extremely high. Set a rolling checkpoint like blackcoin or Nxt , that refuses reorgs after a # of confirmations. There is nothing more secure than that. :) Everything before the rolling checkpoint is sealed in stone. :D Compared to BTC weak ass security (51% attack by the Chinese Miners that have shown as high as 70% in the past year) Considering the last 12 hours of transactions history can be rewritten at a whim, if the Chinese mining pools get pissed. Tell me again how PoS is not secure, when PoW security has been a drive-thru at a Chinese Restaurant for over a year. (It makes me Laugh!) :D 8) Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: fikihafana on December 17, 2016, 03:52:25 PM guys what is BTC have POS? what you think may happen..;)? like 2-5% a year..;) If bitcoin has POS feature it will make price fall down and it's hard to control inflation. Until now, i didn't see any pos coin can have stable prize. Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: crazyivan on December 17, 2016, 04:54:17 PM No PoS for BTC. Do not change the system which works well.
There re other PoS coins, look at DMD Diamond if you like, 25% interest rate annually. Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: kiklo on December 19, 2016, 03:03:09 AM guys what is BTC have POS? what you think may happen..;)? like 2-5% a year..;) If bitcoin has POS feature it will make price fall down and it's hard to control inflation. Until now, i didn't see any pos coin can have stable prize. ZEIT is Voting Right Now to become the 1st Ultra Low Inflation Proof of Stake coin. Proof of Stake with only .0005% per year. It will be a game changer. ;) 8) Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Yakamoto on December 19, 2016, 03:36:06 AM guys what is BTC have POS? what you think may happen..;)? If it had Proof of Stake chances are a ton of people would get mad very, very quickly, and the value might go up or it might go down; depends on who would still be using Bitcoin at that point.like 2-5% a year..;) As for interest rates, it is going to be nowhere close to something like 2% a year, you're looking at maybe a 1%/year maximum to be honest. Even that is being very optimistic. Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: valley365 on December 19, 2016, 05:07:08 AM guys what is BTC have POS? what you think may happen..;)? like 2-5% a year..;) I like the idea, it will be a lot better for people to hold bitcoin. They hold bitcoin like holding CDs in the bank. Now the bitcoin unattractive as it is like the gold, does not generate interests, otherwise it will become a better investment vehicle. Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: pereira4 on December 19, 2016, 12:50:31 PM PoS has already been disproved and is a disaster. The nothing at stake problem was never fixed, it is always a bigger risk than a 51%+ attack on PoW. PoS will be the nail in the coffin for Ethereum after they go full PoS, we will see that in the next years. There is nothing better than PoW, Satoshi predicted it.
Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: romero121 on December 19, 2016, 01:27:32 PM If POS has got to be better, it could have been added earlier during the days of its growth. Now I don't this to be a necessary one. Sale factors and the buying capital vary often which affects the users.
Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: kiklo on December 20, 2016, 05:02:55 AM PoS has already been disproved and is a disaster. The nothing at stake problem was never fixed, it is always a bigger risk than a 51%+ attack on PoW. PoS will be the nail in the coffin for Ethereum after they go full PoS, we will see that in the next years. There is nothing better than PoW, Satoshi predicted it. From the Endless Bullshit I hear about Nothing at Stake Lie, here are my responses to both scenarios . Quote Some authors[15][16] argue that proof-of-stake is not an ideal option for a distributed consensus protocol. One problem is usually called the "nothing at stake" problem, where (in the case of a consensus failure) block-generators have nothing to lose by voting for multiple blockchain-histories, which prevents the consensus from ever resolving. Because there is little cost in working on several chains (unlike in proof-of-work systems), anyone can abuse this problem to attempt to double-spend (in case of blockchain reorganization) "for free".[17] Ok , above is the quote from the wiki. Here is what is wrong with it. BadGuy has 50 coins , GoodGuy1 has 10 Coin , GoodGuy2 also staking 10 coins GoodGuy1 is staking [10] on the block 500 on Fork1 At the same moment another block is created by GoodGuy2 [10] on the block 500 on Fork2 Now the BadGuy Since he has nothing to Lose , Stakes his 50 Coins on both Forks So Now Fork1 [60] & Fork2 [60] Which means by trying to stake on both blocks at the Same Time, all he did was Negate his Staking Power by adding to Both. :D Which Fork is chosen will be decided by someone else , not trying to play both sides. He makes his staking power irrelevant. The other flaw with the Nothing at Stake Lie, which must be beyond the concept of PoW miners. When Proof of Stake stakes a Block , Coin Age is used up, meaning those coins will now be offline and unable to stake until their minimum stake age is reached again. It would be the same as when a PoW miner mined a coin and then immediately turned off his ASICS for a prescribed amount of time. Which would mean he could mine no other block until , he was allowed to turn his ASICS back on. Which is why PoS is superior to PoW , as random Chaos is entered into it. PoW miners can maintain the ~ same HashRate thruout mining while a PoS Staker Amounts & Coin Age are in constant Flux every time they stake. So what is burned when you stake, Coin Age & Staking Weight is burned, and it takes a minimum stake age before it can be recovered. 8) FYI: As far as the DoubleSpend , PoW or PoS is susceptible to doublespend with Zero Confirmations . Solutions for both PoW & PoS is to wait the prescribed amount of Confirmations, and never accept Zero Confirmations. In nothing at stake attack, as I understand, attackers doesn't stake on both forks. They argue that stable strategy for all honest miners is to mine on all the fork. Then attacker assumes that everyone is doing this and stakes on the double spend fork (or whatever he wants to use instead of main-chain). That is why it doesn't matter how much attacker has. I do find this valid objection, just something not fundamental and trivial to prevent, hence I started this thread. OK , so you think Attacker has 1 coin , GoodGuy1 has 10 coins GoodGuy2 also staking 10 coins Fork1 GoodGuy1 is staking GoodGuy2 is staking [20] At the same moment on Fork2 GoodGuy1 is staking GoodGuy2 is staking [20] Now the Attacker Places a transaction on Fork1 Stakes his 1 coin on Fork 2 So Now Fork1 [20] only 2 blocks & Fork2 [21] 3 blocks Fork2 now has more coins in 3 Blocks, and becomes the longest chain with the most difficulty. All of this in an attempt at a double spend. 1st off Standard PoS wallets don't Multi-stake, you would have to code one your self. Let's say you do and it works exactly as you described and you spend coins on Fork1 and overwrote it when Fork2 became the longest Chain. Basically a History rewrite. This is why it will Fail. Once the fork2 becomes the longest chain, all of the wallets will reorg to fork2 and it will be the correct chain. This means the coins you sent in the transaction on fork1 will not confirm, and the wallet you sent it too will not reach even 1 confirmation. Longest chain with the most difficulty wins , just wait the recommend # of confirmations and all zero confirmation attacks fail. 8) FYI: Double spending if someone accepts zero confirmations is easy on Proof of Work. I don't even need to be a miner, just paid a higher transaction fee to pull it off. I had 2 devices with the same BTC wallet , send the coins from the 1st device to the vendor with no fee, then send all of my BTC from the same wallet on 2nd device to another BTC address I control, including a high fee for faster transactions. If the Vendor accepts Zero confirmations, he will see the BTC sent from the 1st device, and I exit the store with his product for free. 5 to 10 minutes later after the 1 confirmation, all of my BTC will have arrived at my other BTC address and the Vendor just saw his payment never Confirmed. Moral is PoW or PoS wait the recommend confirmations. ;) 8) FYI: BTC has lost the 51% PoW battle with the Chinese Miners for over a year, funny no one worries about that. :D FYI2: BTC has an average of 1.3 orphans per day of 144 blocks, meaning if I really got lucky, there is one opportunity everyday to run a double spend on BTC and actually get 1 confirmation before it reorgs. ;) Chinese mining pools using a 51% attack could overwrite the last 72 blocks if they felt like it. Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Xester on December 20, 2016, 05:55:12 AM Proof of Stake or POS is not necessary. This may just be advantageous to big holders of bitcoins but for us small timers and small miners will not benefit. The rich will become rich, since they will be selling their stakes at the exchangers. The current design of bitcoin is good, there is no need to change or modify it, even some might like it since they hate chinese miners but if you check they hold the biggest amount of bitcoin so they will be benefit the POS.
Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: 400actforsale on December 20, 2016, 06:26:00 AM Don't make BTC a POS coin! Otherwise the coin supply will be disturbed and the current schedule of mining will be completely changed, hence the price of BTC will fall. Keeping the coin generation schedule of this would be fine (although there are disadvantages - see my this post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1689223.msg17238201#msg17238201), as described in the 8th point).
If you want to earn an interest on your bitcoin holdings, try lending out your bitcoins here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0) (read this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577765.0) to avoid scams!) or go to Poloniex to lend out coins for others to margin trade (but have much lower interests). Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: kiklo on December 20, 2016, 07:07:40 AM Don't make BTC a POS coin! Otherwise the coin supply will be disturbed and the current schedule of mining will be completely changed, hence the price of BTC will fall. Keeping the coin generation schedule of this would be fine (although there are disadvantages - see my this post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1689223.msg17238201#msg17238201), as described in the 8th point). If you want to earn an interest on your bitcoin holdings, try lending out your bitcoins here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0) (read this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577765.0) to avoid scams!) or go to Poloniex to lend out coins for others to margin trade (but have much lower interests). Hmm, Don't worry the Chinese miners will never let BTC goes PoS, it would threaten their dominance. But just so you know , PoS can be set with a fixed reward per block and a set block # to half, just like the PoW version. Coin Supply & halving rates could be the exact same as they are now. 8) Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: 400actforsale on December 20, 2016, 09:00:47 AM Don't make BTC a POS coin! Otherwise the coin supply will be disturbed and the current schedule of mining will be completely changed, hence the price of BTC will fall. Keeping the coin generation schedule of this would be fine (although there are disadvantages - see my this post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1689223.msg17238201#msg17238201), as described in the 8th point). If you want to earn an interest on your bitcoin holdings, try lending out your bitcoins here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0) (read this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577765.0) to avoid scams!) or go to Poloniex to lend out coins for others to margin trade (but have much lower interests). Hmm, Don't worry the Chinese miners will never let BTC goes PoS, it would threaten their dominance. But just so you know , PoS can be set with a fixed reward per block and a set block # to half, just like the PoW version. Coin Supply & halving rates could be the exact same as they are now. 8) Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: kiklo on December 20, 2016, 09:10:49 AM If BTC really goes POS the Chinese miners will just buy tons of bitcoins for staking, making the liquidity of bitcoin lower... They are (quite) rich so they could also dominate the mining of bitcoin... Since they are the one mining it, what makes you think they don't already have tons of it. They are hoarding alot of BTC to keep the prices higher. They would still make the most money off of it, but they could no longer control the transactions the way they do now, which is why they will block PoS, just as they are going to block segwit. 8) Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: ljudotina on December 20, 2016, 09:12:46 AM BTC POS would be directly against everything BTC stands for. Only total newbs or low level trolls can suggest something like that.
Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Karartma1 on December 20, 2016, 09:26:02 AM What's POS? Piece of shit? Proof of shit? Explain. ;D ;D ;D Great and funny. Back to business Bitcoin uses an ingenious Proof of Work mechanism: PoW is a way to prevent sybil attacks by making each vote costly. Bitcoin is by far the most important decentralized trusted computing platform ever existed. Contributions are accepted only if corroborated by evidence of dedicated hard work (mining). PoS can't be as secure as PoW. Bitcoin needs to keep this mechanism. Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: jacktheking on December 20, 2016, 01:45:45 PM I like Altcoin with POS as a source of income but if this were to be implanted for Bitcoin, I will strongly disagree. Bitcoin have a long and rich history with POS and changing it might cause a lot of problems for the community. This will also give Bitcoin a bad reputation as haters will make use of this opportunity to call Bitcoin a ponzi scheme.
Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: Wilhelmus on December 20, 2016, 01:56:37 PM That is a very bad idea. What makes the raw value of a Bitcoin, the cap under which the price will never go is how much it costs to produce. Switching to PoS is letting Bitcoin's price slipping to zero. Look at all the PoS coins : none was successful. PoS is just the dream of a bunch of ecologists.
Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: digaran on December 20, 2016, 02:01:15 PM Proof of stake like when a coin is at 0.00006, I go and buy a full bag of it then try to stake them but after 6 month of staking I come back now to enjoy my earnings by selling my staked coins only to see the freaking price now is at 0.00004 and just like that 6 month of staking goes poof, if you like it that way then guys lets turn the coin to POS.
Title: Re: POS for BTC? ;) Post by: 25forsure# on December 21, 2016, 10:39:51 PM All these staements with no facts to back up.
At POW end though what is the purpose to change to POS? Will probly have to increase transacton fees. |
