Bitcoin Forum

Gambling investment is zero or negative sum, considering the house has to profit.

So why are you guys do bitcoin gambling as an investment instruments? OR merely just for the fun, like going to a physical casino.

Usually when we are talking about gambling investment we mean that our money are used to fuel casino's bankroll, therefore you effectively become the House.
It is as you said,  House needs gain profit and this way House will share its profit with investors. But again it is an investment. You are not collecting accrued interest here.

Players can at some point become very lucky effectively consuming large share of casino's (and yours) bankroll, so you might lose your invested money.

If you are INVESTING in casinos, that means you ARE the house. Which means that you are going to profit in the long term because the house edge stands on your side. The more people gamble, theoretically the more you are going to profit.

So no, gambling investments are actually +EV and that's why people do invest in the house.

I think you might have confused "gambling" and "gambling investment". If you are gambling then obviously you should be doing so for fun and not the profit, and if you try to go for the profit eventually you'll lose in the long run.

Nope, there is no fun in doing this, what people aim is only profit in a long term and becoming house by investing skme money really good choice. Mostly it will skyrocketing of profit in a long term though, because there is always house edge which is always support them to win

Yes it is actually always negative sum. However people still gamble despite the odds.

For some its a bad addiction which is bad for the gambler but good for the Casino.

For others its purely a form of entertainment and they don't gamble anymore than they can afford to lose. Some spend money on vacations, dinners, and others spend money on gambling for their fun in life.

You are right, I've confused gambling investment to gambling, didn't know that we are actually the HOUSE when investing bitcoins in bitcoin gambling sites.

Because of the house edge, casino will always win players money in the long run, this is maths, so it is a good investment to invest in casino bankroll  :)

The profits may be slow, but it is good

Bitcoin is very useful, but I still like to use bitcoin gambling
Investing in uncertain gambling is the wrong choice
I really don't agree with your opinion

Yeah mate theres some casino site that allow us to invest our btc to be use as additional capital for their business its allowed some percentage depending on how much they will gave us in weekly or monthly basis, with regarding to what you mean i guess most of the gamblers didnt mind losing their hard earn money just to fill up their lust of playing/betting.

Somewhat what you are saying is true but the larger your investment is plus the population of gamblers playing in one casino will give you a bigger profit in the long run. Investment is a game of patience and wit so the more you wait , the more you will profit because house always win.

Investing in casino's bankroll is better than gambling however investing in any gambling platform is almost like gambling because there are several examples where casino's bankroll have seen huge loss because of some lucky players. And i personally don't think it is better to take high risk investing in casino's bankroll for very low profit.

I for myself, i dont treat gambling as an investments, the moment your start gambling your return is not guaranteed while investments (trading) we expects some results and win or loose we still have the % of our Capital

Gambling is never an investment regardless of zero, negative, or even posit sum. Even if you give a negative house edge, in the long run the casinos will still win. People here are investing into the casino's bank roll and not really on gambling itself. More on people gamble in bitcoin casinos similar to why people gamble in real casinos.

If you play or spend your money in playing gambling its not really an investment but just a pure entertainment but when the time you put your money on the casinos bank roll then its already considered as an investment and you have a percentage profits on house earnings but we cant guarantee anytime to receive because there are times that people who are lucky which could able to make negative profits on a gambling site.

- Gambling is for fun or for some it is just an addiction which they can't left despite of losing so much.
- There is house edge in every casino which ensures that casino will earn some % of total wagered amount.
- For me bitcoin gambling is way to spend some free time alongside to try my luck.

There are many gambling addicts who can't stop until their balance is zero and after losing everything they deposit again and then lose it too. These people need professional help mostly, but sometimes some of them have enough strength to stop by themselves. Those people, the gambling addicts, think of gambling as of investment.

Another kind of gamblers are people who do it just for fun. They enjoy gambling, they never have problems with it, because they never thinkk they can become rich from gambling.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If the house edge is negative, the casino is virtually guaranteed to eventually go bankrupt.

Yes when we invest in casino site we expected the casino to earn some profit and most of the time the casino did won, but of course not every time, and I never considered investment as fun things, i expected to earn some profit when i invest it, and for me casino investment has a higher chance of profit compare to other investment

I think you are new, because if you know the taste of playing online gambling? than i think you never ask us. But about the gambling investment, So it has a different mean, invest in casino, if anyone not want, so doesn't matter. Online playing gambling not below to gambling investment statutes. But the different between physical gambling or online gambling, both are also our choice, but I prefer because i like bitcoin, and that's why, i play it, and secondly, it is easy for me to play gambling in anywhere. In fact usually, i play it at my home and in any time, when i like to play gambling.    

I don't see gambling as an investment instruments. Reading though this forum I understood that it's a very dangerous way to regard gambling as that. I think people should take it easy and should never expect big profits from gambling. I'm trying to think of gambling as of fun time spending only.

Why do play millions of people lottery each week, when only one or two win the jackpot? That's actually the same question. For most of them, it is an absolute losing bargain.

So I think for constant Bitcoin gamblers, either they are addicted or they have found a strategy to make more than they lose.

your topic subject is so misleading, as others pointed out, you should edit it because when you say gambling investment it means investing in a gambling casino's bankroll and share in the profit the house makes and it is a completely different thing and while it is still risky but it can be profitable.

and about using gambling as an investment to make money from gambling i have to say it is not a good idea but it is not impossible either. you just have to choose the game and the strategy you want to use carefully.

Not always.If you're playing on a reputed gambling site (like the one in my signature),the house odds are comparatively low and the rounds are provable fair.It's a myth that the house has to profit.How can one assume that when they have seeds of the previous rounds to verify the bet was fair ? High house odds,I agree but nowadays most of the gambling sites are lowering it down to 2-0.01%.

Investment and playing,two different things (atleast in online bitcoin gambling).Differs from person-person.For me,it's all about the time to kill.

my strategy in gambling , another sport betting
blackjack, poker, dice and all gambling in playing game
iam use zero sum game, and not high profit but very fast all my money lost

Your gambling definition doesn't take into account poker and sports gambling.
Those 2 gambling games are special and can see a positive result.
But most people here don't use gambling as an investment. In fact even those gambling games aren't real investment they're just... Professional gamble. We play casino just for the fun and the thrill of knowing that you CAN win big and that's what you want here. Oh and when we talk about casino investment it's not about gambling but about investing in the bankroll of the casino. Which means that you have a share of the casino profit so it's a real investment ;)

Looks like you have wrong definition here, gambling is not investment, it's just for fun.
I wonder why still a human think gambling as investment :-\ unless you investing in house, your profit is otherwise than you play gamble, investing in house also considered as gambling, the house will not always won, you probably lose.

What you said is the perfect definition of gambling investment, most of them are thinking that if they invest in gambling sites they will earn profit as most of the users are loosing when they are playing, but they forget that some big players deposit high and play some games in bingo style and when they win high they just withdraw and dont return, so that loss is also affects the investment of the users other then site owners.

i think it is clear here, on casino investment i think it is unlikely to lost the money, house will always win in long term, it is quite different on gambling

Majority gamble for fun and some confuse addiction with fun so they end up losing money for painful entertainment. The bookies are always going to win in the long run so I don't believe in gambling as a form of investment at least through my experience.

Just for fun in the world of betting bitcoin there are too many options one of most I love is social gambling like bitdouble.io or sportsbooks like 1XBIT and Nitrogenous if you want to make money just take a job, gambling isn't the way.

that's completely right if you want some good earnings find a decent job as gambling is not a good investment risk really big even playing with the house the possibility of getting busted is still there so better play for fun and gamble with full responsibility.

When it comes to gambling, profit is the major concern. You need to be a pro gambler else need to be the luckiest one to gain good profit. Other than this to be successful, users prefer to invest on the gambling house. The reason is that house will always profited high than the users. Only a countable number of users prefer gambling for the purpose of fun and excitement.

Yup you are right only limited people play gambling just for fun and entertainment. Remainng all play for money. But I gambling success rate is very less. If you are lucky then only it possible it may be slot games or skill games you should be lucky to make a profit in gambling. But investing is not like that here the profit chance is high, but we need huge investment to make a profit.

yes for fun , i am not use it as invesment ..

By considering the consistency and frequency of making profits from gambling, no wise man will accept gambling as investment instruments.

But I just get few questions :
A gambling house owner will prefer to gamble in his own gambling house to make profits ?

If you have invested into a gambling site's bankroll then you are shareholder and you are one of the owners. In that case what will be your preferences just staying away from gambling (like considering only profits from investments are enough) or simply keep trying for profit making by playing gambling too ?

I believe for both investors and non-investors (into bankroll), gambling activities can not be an investment option.

well you are lucky if you just playing just for fun as we knew that gamblers played for money and sometimes they intend to use big capital to role in order for them to earn good profits might be the reason why OP saying its a investment, having an attitude like this with self control will free you up from becoming gambling addict.

No, it is not a zero or negative sum and that's how gambling investment is working and getting profit with their house edge. It is a business you know, a gambling site will not be established just to give the gamblers free money and entertainment.


I'm actually making it as both, investment instrument and instrument for having fun.

bitcoin gambling is not investment, bitcoin gambling is only playing games with bitcoin as a bet inside. but investment is we put our money with the house or with the company and we expecting to get profit with them. so i think you are wrong if you said gambling investment is zero, this is just my opinion and i think there are many people which make investment with the house and make a good profit.

Just how many times are these same threads going to be made over and over again.
They really need to put in a rule that stops posting the same thread over and over again.

Gambling investments is negative sum because odds offered by gambling sites is not fair.
Always you will bet for low odds .If you want to bet  on same option like odds or even on soccer you will lose everytime 3-5% of your bankroll (this is sure profit for house).

Investing in casinos sounds like a better choice in my opinion, compared against gambling. If what you're after is ROI for your money.

Investment on casinos would be always the best choice when you are longing for profits but expect ROI would really be longer compared on playing gambling but thinking off on the risk involved investment does have the edge.If i really do have the money to invest i will surely do the thing rather than on gambling itself because i feel like im just donating my money.

It's not called gambling investment when you are not getting a profit from gambling, it is only for fun or maybe you consider a gambling house as charity since you love donating your money. The only way I can call gambling as investment is by putting my money in an online casino's bankroll and I know they win all the time so I'm also profitable and investment makes sense then.

Its not always zero or negative sum, did you think about that? And just fun or a little more depends from bankroll in my case, more bigger in this case means more serious gambling. I don't need to go to physical casino when I have all the games on internet and I can play what I wish how much I wish without any bothering.
House always win, and few others, I gamble cause I like it and cause I have good wins from time to time.

Winning is possible but admittedly I lose in the long  run, that's just the only reality that we cannot deny as we have already proven that despite how we work hard to win. You cannot beat the system that's why it's wise to gamble only in a short period of time, you could be lucky sometimes so follow your instinct when in gambling and keep pushing your luck up to your limit.

Maybe winning for sometime is already a great accomplishment on our part as winning is really hard so that depends on us if we will still risk and look for better return.

well its true, when gamble its always have a big chances to lose your money in the long run maybe that's the edge for those who knows how to control, the more you can quit in the right time the the bigger chances that you will able to win some profits.

I think  the OP means not to invest in a casino bankroll. He is asking why you guys keep playing when the best will be you get 0% ROI or you lose your investment of bitcoins by playing with them. I play for fun also but my main concern is to make any profit. Unfortunately until now I am only losing to slot machines and I think I need to quit before I become addicted.

When you invest in a casino you get a cut of the profits of the casino.

Considering the house has to profit, this means it is safer to invest in house bankroll.  With all the house edge and the reckless betting of the players.  There is more chance of getting positive return if we invest in the casino bankroll.  As my statement say, I go not for fun but rather to get profit from the game.  And the better way to do this is investing in the house bankroll.

It is obvious that the gambling site or the casino must have some profit so you can also gain some money out of your investment or these gambling site or casino. That's  why we need to review carefully where we to put our investments. I also suggest not to invest all of your money if you are just a beginner, try to invest a little to test it out.

Being careful is not really bad, it is really a way to earn money slowly but surely.

this is not true because i make investment in yolodice and i think its work and other people that makes investment in yolodice is got their profit too with the investment programs. making investment in bitcoin gambling is actually can profit but i think its only for long term to get our ROI, but if you think that you can get in short term, then i think you are wrong. and if you want to make investment in bitcoin gambling, then i suggest you should use free bitcoin that do not use for any purpose then you can invested.

you play because of luck, there is always the chance to win the jackpot and get everything back and much more, everyone who gamble only play for that unlikely chance to win the plot size, there is no other reason to play any casino and there is no roi in gambling, it's just luck, you can get everything now or lose forever

Investing in casino is same as you playing gambling itself, there's no valid profit (it's means your profit depends on how much people lose), need a lot capital because your funds will drained become zero and you need to often check your balance of investment. I have tested out with low amount, I think it's not worth if you have low or decent funds to invest.

Casino investment is the most trusted investment site here on cryptoworld. It is tested because i invest on casino for over a year and i constantly received profit even though it is just a small percentage, I'm contented as long as my money was safe unlike to invest it on casino or to gamble it. I prefer to team up to the winning side.

i am agree with this but we need to selected the trusted investment site because if we are choose with random then the chance for us to make profit is none and we should not get anything in that investment. there are so many good sites in gambling and without know what is the best site, then we only make deposit without knowing when we can get our ROI. its fine to make small profit as long as that profit is stable for a long term so we can still make profit.

No that's not true. If gambling sites were actually getting a loss then why will they even continue their site. And about the investments it is 10 times better than gambling because if you invest smartly then is easy to get a 4% return per year. If you still think gambling sites are in loss then please check out yolodice, it is a site started 4 months ago and now it itself is has a profit of 65 btc.

Moneypot is a trusted site but their investors profit is still at negative. In selecting a bitcoin casino to invest you always need to check their stats and how they handle the investor's money. There's also a lot of factor that affects an investment because not everyone invest at the same time so don't expect the profits would be the same with a previous investor.

moneypot is the worst and the weirdest place to invest your bitcoin in gambling related business.
logically one would expect it to be more profitable since there are lots more gambling games there and when the numbers grow the chance of house always winning becomes more and more but in this case history shows moneypot investors lose more money than they earn (at least last time i checked it was like this).

Actually in moneypot, owners are not in a loss, but only investors are at a loss for quite some time. But recently I didn't check because I withdraw my fund's couple of months back itself. Their formula to distribute profit and losses somehow not so good for investor perspective. Hence while choosing casino for investments, one should check the recent history to get an idea.

Gambling investment usually means putting money into the house's bankroll.  If you're arguing that the house always wins then you're right, so if you're part of the house you'll win.  Bitcoin gambling sites are very good investments as they tend to give over half of their profits to bankroll investors.

i agree with this and i think its still worth if we can found good site in moneypot list so we can trying to invest with them although the profit is not big amount. but if we have big money to invest, then i think we can go with the big sites like we can found in here and we can start to invest with them. beside that, for making investment, we need to wait for longer time before we can get our funds back because there is no investment that will give big profit in short time at least we need to wait more than 3 month to see our money is back.

Gambling is an illegal doing but many of us use it to make a profit. If we use the gambling to earn money I think that the earn money is easy to consume then it wil back to zero. Or if they succes to become reach I think you have no time for your family or our family will lost in our life. Since it gives fun for who are involve but it have bad influence.

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I only gamble for fun now. I tried dice with different betting strategies for a while but found out through experience that no strategy works for me.

I'm glad to see you realize it early, there is really no strategy in a luck based game because it is purely based on luck, you might win or lose and that happens all the time but in the end you will still lose overall. In a game based on luck, it is usually fun like we see in dice games, I find it fun because you can select odds and the result are fast and if you are lucky you have a chance to win big. I guess we are just after of winning big and it's possible in dice but never think you can do it constantly because it's never possible.

But both options have nearly the same risk, however it is still safer if you choose to invest in the site you gamble gambling than that in an instant can give you a loss.

well that's right placing your money into the bankroll will give you chances to win since the house have that advantage for having the system but it will take time before you can get those earnings while risking your money and play inside the house if you got lucky you can earn instant but high risk is really needs to consider.

Of course usually casino takes some fee from your profit, but some of them not and you said it correctly. Well, main problem is fair investment because everyone knows that when you have control on server, it's possible to always win any bet, for example if total profit was 100 btc, owner can to play and make lose of any number of bitcoins. For example owner can to make lose of 30 bitcoins and that means profit for investors will be that 70 bitcoins, not fully 100 bitcoin.

I am confused that you are talking about the investment in gambling sites or you are talking about the playing games with money. If you are talking about the investment in sites then it is not zero in all sites you just have to invest in established sites especially in those sites which will have a full pledged advertising from their side. While playing games is only for fun.

Well I do not know if some one does it for investment purpose. If that is the case then he does not know finance and its investment purpose to be true. Casinos obviously have house advantage and they exist to make profit for themselves and not to do social service by making everybody rich who play in casinos.

It needs to be done just for fun and entertainment and nothing else.

Actually, I assume the OP is just talking about putting money into gambling sites rather than investing in them.  In this case, people generally just do it because they find gambling enjoyable (possibly due to the thrill of the possibility of earning more money even if it is unlikely and they know it). 

But they will realize in the end that it gives more chance to earn when investing than in gambling, if there aim is just to enjoy and does not seek for a long term profit then I would say gambling is suitable for them. Most investors are those who are really serious with their venture and they put up a decent amount of investment because they know the return is not quite big and it takes time to arrived your expectations of profit target.

I would agree, according to some science, there is also an adrenaline pump when you are very much into the odds of where you are betting. It also contains addictive drugs that the body execretes like some nicotine or caffeine. In internet gambling it's not really that thrilling cause sometimes u made no investment to it except your time.

Theres no investment shall we say but wasting your precious time is really a big No for me.Its really normal for our body to react on that situation and thats right it secretes chemicals which are similar to those things you mentioned which would really make us addicted.Investing on gambling is more wiser than putting up money completely on gambling sites.

I know, home is definitely going to benefit but which makes people worry if they not get anything from they investment. it's a very reasonable thing occurred when the man wanted to invest, not only in gambling.

most people presume that gambling is a way to fold the duplicate money, by conducting bets big money that will benefit them. but for the cloud/beginner gambling is a fun game place means for them. they certainly will be more craze in gambling until unlimited time, how to avoid it by way of doing positive things, never open there all gambling ...

there are two very different things here though.
investing in gambling and investing in a gambling site.

the first one is obviously stupid, you should never invest in gambling. instead just play gambling games and have fun and try to enjoy the rush of betting and not knowing.

but investing in a casino bankroll or a gambling site is a real investment into a real business. and a good business at that. many of the casinos are currently very good and performing well enough to be profitable. but not all of them accept investment though. but some of the bigger ones are returning a pretty nice profit each week.

Yes investing in gambling is just waste of money, here we will get only entertainment and sometimes we will make a profit. But investing in casino sites is worth, we can make money with this method. But to make money in investment, we need big bankroll, and it will improve slowly. But gambling is instant money. But profit is not sure either you may win or not depends on your luck.

Yup, indeed the moneypot has the advantage that is good enough for all of us. Because the moneypot has plenty of options for investment we could use, but it does note that investment is not an easy job. Because investment requires a good precision, if we just follow the appetite without seeing the results of the analysis are there then everything will end in loss
 

That's not how you will lose your investment. It's garanteed profit. What is not garanteed is that it will be returned to you. What's to stop the website shutting down ? That is the problem you should be concerned yourself with. We all k ow it will make profit or the casino would not exist.

From the way I view it, I think op is mixing gambling investments with playing on a gambling site as both are completely different. Gambling investments is definitely not zero sum because the house always win and you will get return on your investments. On the other hand, if its playing gambling too, accepting it as zero sum also comes with reservation as people sometimes makes more than what they put in and they bolt.

There are differences between them, but the profit is possible both ways. Gambling or investing you can make profit, that is simple because most gamblers lose money, + profit for investors and few gamblers make profit, + profit for gamblers, on the middle there is the dice site which is making profit too together with investors. It's a game where everyone can be happy.

With investing in gambling sites you can profit, which is usually what people are talking about.  Also, when you're playing on certain kinds of gambling like sports betting it's possible to win from having more skill than others rather than just from probability.

Not all the time you will get nothing in gambling investments. Have you read the guy that is posting his profit with 3 casino's upon investing there for months? There will always be a profit for the house but you need to choose the ones that is legit and has a good reputation. Or do you mean by simply gambling the usual way is investment?

It also depends on how much high rollers are in the casinos and how unlucky the gamblers are (though this factor cannot be influenced). If the site has a lot of gamblers that bet big amounts then most likely your investment can earn a lot of money. If not then it would be a steady climb for you in that casino.

Gambling investment will always be positive EV.

Because you are investing in the house if you are investing in gambling.

For example, Yolodice and Bitdice are two very popular dice sites right now that accept user investments. Also worthy of a mention are crypto-games, Bitvest.io and Just-Dice(although they don't use bitcoin anymore so that's a bummer).

But if you are the person gambling, sure, it'll always be negative sum.

Can't think of any legitimate casinos that will offer you a neutral EV, because the house edge is how they make profits.

Well there are many trusted websites you can invest and one of the most known one for example is moneypot.

If you check the moneypot investor profit it has been minus for a LOONG time, it might be profiting in the short term but people who invested back in the day still haven’t made their Money back. Sometimes the websites are not doing that well, hence even house has a risk.

For me it's just fun to gamble and I also try to invest my winnings in the gambling site.
You can't touch your investment for 24 hours, so that keeps me from gambling it again and I make some profit of off it ;)

At least, that's how it works on Crypto-Games

i think that is good that you do gamble for just fun, but the best thing that you do is invest your winning money to reach more profit although the investment is for long term but is good. having investment in gambling is also make us could get profit with the site, but to do gambling in that site, i think its not be a good idea because we can loss our money in every time.

I just invested in moneypot as well, 80700 bits, took out an hour later as 80000, quickest way to lose 700 satoshi without doing anything I saw.

If you want to lose money but don’t have to time lose all your money yourself and tired, just invest your coins to moneypot and go sleep, when you wake up gamblers would take it all and you will lose all your “investment”, we are basically giving our Money to gamblers. I am not so sure anymore about “house always wins” on moneypot.

Yes you are right and I don't believe that all the time a casino will generate no profit. There will be times that there will be a lucky gambler that wins a lot but there would be a time of recovering for the management that will encounter a rage bettor and will bet almost all his funds till the end that will lead him in losing.

Gambling is an illegal way to earn money but many people wants to play to make a profit. This may be said that if we win it is easy to consume and if we success to become rich by use of gambling I think your family will lost and spend more time to others instead to our family. Since it gives more fun they have a bad influence.

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I think gambling is just the place for the man happy, if anyone think gambling is a profitable investment that's not possible because they have to take the risk of large losses or loss we can profit while. investment will probably be zero could not be expect so I recommend you make gambling man happy, fill in spare time.

This case does really happen on which there are really times that casinos have negative profits when there are players who are lucky enough to win big amounts and this is the risk when you do invest on casino bankrolls but we should really not be worry because in longer runs house will always be the winner thats why this type of investment is always recommendable.