Bitcoin Forum

I have seen people panicking today. Real, actual panic and fear in their eyes. They were into Bitcoin for a couple of weeks only, not even understanding the technology properly, not to speak of the ideals behind crypto currency. They went in for the money, to make money and now they lost money and are scared shitless and dissappointed to the bone.

And I have seen people who were very relaxed today. People who might in theory have lost a few 100k in terms of euros or dollars in the last 24 hours.

Last night, when shit started I was sitting together with Mike and Philip to get some Bitcoin related stuff hacked together. We saw the turmoil starting, tried our best to analise and understand what was going on and then continued working. After a couple of hours I realised that none of us had even checked the exchange rate for those hours, being concentrated on work to bring Bitcoin forward.

There's people who are into Bitcoin to change the world for the better.

And there's people who are in it for the bucks.

The latter have created this exchange rate madness and will hopefully be put off again now for a while.

As one of the former I am relieved that this market overheating bullshit has come to a halt and that people who are after the money will now most likely stay away again for a while, so we can keep on developing this wonderful technology and watch it grow slowly, gradually and sustainably.

Actually, from every aspect I look at this event I find it positive for the further development of Bitcoin. This is worth much more to me and the most people in the community than what or what not our coins might be worth in fiat right now. And if people who came in for the money are getting out again now:

good riddance!

Just my 5 satoshis.

Joe

hear hear!

excellent post

Everyone is in it for the money. But we aren't all in it strictly for the USD.
Why get in Bitcoin if you're so into the USD that you'll pull back out the same week you got in?

I'm in it because screw fiat.

Everything else is icing on the cake ;D

Well said - Bitcoin is too young and immature to handle the speculators that, to me, are the only reasonable explanation for what's happened the last 24 hours.

I am in it for the money.

Money called Bitcoin.

I'm more interested in gaining enjoyment from the use of them rather than speculating the market.

hah gotta get those BTCs, son!

Unfortunately I know that in 3 days, by the time I get cash into MtGox, the price will be back to normal.

Too many people coming into the market for the price to continue down.

lol!

Speaking as the Mike mentioned, I fully endorse the core of this sentiment, although I might not say "good riddance" with quite air that Comrade Joe does  ;)

Lol.

if ya fo the fiat, yo stupid and worth squat

Unfortunately, bitcoin speculators will always be there. I just look at each bubble as an opportunity for those that got in early and really understand bitcoin to benefit twice over.

Imagine, people into a new form of money are in it for the money!

Quelle horreur!

THIS.

^^ This.   

So you are trying to spin a for profit attack on the bitcoin system as good for bitcoin? And that that is better than speculators buying into bitcoin and trading them for dollars. That is like saying that blowing up mountains is better than letting tourist ski down them. Fool!

How can anyone with intelligence believe this is a positive? 

1 step forward and 2 steps back is never a good thing. 

Imagine, people who are into a new form of money because it implies a new, fairer, better and more capable financial and economical system for the greater good are not in there for the fast buck.

You have failed to undestand that difference so of course you have failed to understand my point and only therefor you actually think you summed it up with your answer.

Fail on!

Joe

How about this: instead of get lost new bitcoin users (aka dump your coins), lets educate about the values of cryptocurrency? 

This was two steps taken forward at one time and that can only lead to hitting the floor.

What I have tried to say is that taking one step after another is a better strategy.

And that I appreciate the hit on the floor happening rather now than at a moment at which Bitcoin would fall from a height that it could not survive.

Joe

I generally agree with your point of view Joe but there is a real risk that there will be real long term consequences to adoption of bitcoin because of these early incidents (for lack of a better term).  I don't just mean the people who were stupid enough to put in money and lost it but people the two types of people who didn't and might think twice now because of this. The first being the ones who just saw the idiot hit pieces on Huffington Post, CNBC.com, et. al. The latter being ones who maybe didn't but will through searching before they buy or from secondhand searches who lost money or read/saw these things will decide not to invest.

These are not issues that are going to go away either, MTGox being for all intents and purposes burn at this point as an exchange, at least for serious people, is a good example of this. The fear and uncertainty that this bubble bursting has stirred up, especially after the previous hacks on wallets and the ones that are sure to happen sporadically in the future, are something that will be tough to overcome. That is especially true since bitcoin has no spokesperson or central authority to run PR, now and in the future, aimed at people like you and the people who just want to experiment with a non-fiat currency and/or hedge their bets against the USD/GBP/EUR/etc... .

Bitcoin prices fluctuating wildly is not good for Bitcoin. Hopefully this will put off the speculators who have been making that happen.

Agree with the OP.

This just shows is that we cannot rely on one exchange for the price.  Decentralization depending on centralization?  What we really need is a decentralized exchange and things would get really interesting.  For a while told everyone I know about Bitcoin and they had all the excuses in the world on why they will not buy into it.  I am talking about back when it was <$10.  You cannot imagine the calls I got from them wanting to buy in this week when the price skyrocketed.  There are a lot of people that bought in that do not even understand this market and will (and did) get burned and lose it all. 

This is all healthy for Bitcoin and will only make it stronger.  So OP I completely agree. 

I am in bitcoin for the money and for the absolute genius of the bitcoin design. The new comers will panic because they don't understand what they have bought they only see a quick earn then an even quicker loss. lol. any investment you make you should be at least willing to ride out 12 months or so and all these new people now need to do exactly that or panic and sell for a loss. There is no reason for this panic, bitcoin has not changed at all, it's useability is no less, so selling your bitcoins for under what you payed is your own stupidity. I personally saw hundreds of thousands of AUD vale drop from my bitcoins. am I stressed? NO! bitcoin will be back and go further than it's highest point. It has always done this in the past and there is no real or new reason as to why it wont again.
 ;D      

This is what I posted a few weeks ago on educating people about bitcoin.

"Also, try to dissuade people from promoting Bitcoins from an investment angle, i.e. its potential returns. Viewing Bitcoins in terms of fiat is completely missing the point, and hence totally irrelevant.  BTC is a tool or an "enabler" for the people against the government and the banks. If serfs and slaves escape a life of indenture by fleeing into the sewers, you should lead them out of the sewer and into a better life, not by leading them back to the old world of enslavement!  Bitcoins is the ticket into the sewers and hopefully out of it into a better world.  By thinking BTC in terms of fiat, and how much fiat one can made, one is at risk to becoming like Cypher from the movie Matrix, i.e. wishing that he had never learned the truth and leave the Matrix (fiat world) in the first place. They will be the first to betray Bitcoins if given enough incentive by the fiat world ruler."

That being said, having a deflationary currency by design and periodic mass exposure by the media, first in 2011 and now in 2013, is going to cause huge volatility in BTC exchange rate as people rush in and out, hoard and dump, from time to time.

Yeah, all that pesky money coming into bitcoin, allowing new services to be produced and attracting retailers. Assholes! Not like you guys, who mined millions of bitcoins before anyone else knew about it and leached million of dollars out of the economy. You're the good guys!

Hypocrites.

Let me correct you, "who mined millions of bitcoins before anyone else gave a crap about it, and when it was just worthless experiment"
My dear n00bs, you guys should be careful at  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight_bias

'Let me correct you, "who mined millions of bitcoins before anyone else gave a crap about it, and when it was just worthless experiment"
My dear n00bs, you guys should be careful at  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight_bias'


Guess that must entitle you to extract millions of dollars out of the bitcoin economy, then. Crashing the price, destroying enthusiasm and making the whole thing look like an amateur joke. Which it is. My bad.

Dude you have no idea what you are talking about.

'Dude you have no idea what you are talking about.'

You have no rebuttal, because you know I'm right. There is no difference between a central bank taking people's wealth by printing and you bunch taking people's wealth by knowing about bitcoin early. None at all. You are taking wealth out, leaching it away from people who want to use the bitcoin as a currency. In your position you are acting rationally, nothing to be ashamed of. But if you're honest you know I'm right.

I 'lost' a few 100 large over the past few days, or more accurately, failed to capitalize.  I worked all day moving some logs (of the dead tree variety) and I don't believe I thought about it even once for the whole 6 hours.

The reason for my relaxed attitude about it is exactly because at this point I am pretty much in it for the money and nothing much else.  Had I really cared about Bitcoin specifically I might be more upset.  Actually, I might have been somewhat happy since I can see ways in which the behavior may ultimately be helpful.  I myself missed the first blip but made good use of the trough between and I could see more people doing such a thing today simply because more people know of the solution.

It was not always the case that I lacked hope for Bitcoin.  I was pretty excited about it as a 'revolutionary' thing although I always had some nagging reservations.  At this point I believe that Bitcoin has fulfilled it's most useful purpose.  That is, to demonstrate the viability, in concept and practice, of user-controlled crypto accounting systems.  If Bitcoin fails it is almost certain that others will crop up to take it's place.

Even more than that, one of the most fascinating 'features' to me about Bitcoin is that it actually can fail.  Gold cannot.  Gold will rip apart nations and societies but never fail.  Bitcoin, on the other hand, can be democratically replaced if there is sufficient reason to do so.  If the 'owners and managers' of the solution fail sufficiently it is possible, in my theory, that a much less bloody re-boot can transpire than has been the case in the past.

So, even if my 'losses' go through their terminal doubling from what we I've seen over the past double-digit hours, there is still the opportunity to find out if my theories about the families of solutions are sound in practice.  I'd rather not pay $0.5M for the experiment, but would be no worse off than I was several years ago...and I had no complaints back then.  I've always considered my 'investment' in Bitcoin to be highly speculative and likely to yeild a 100% loss.  Unfortunately this means that you (the OP) are unlikely to get rid of me completely.

edit: minor syntax.  edit2: the day before I move logs of the digital variety.

If you put real money in you have added something to the project. It is money that attracts investment and retailers. It does not matter if you put the cash in for speculative reasons. The problem is people who put nothing in expecting millions of dollars. Reading this forum they even seem to think they somehow deserve it.

While the bubble callers have been correct so far, I don't think there really was a speculative bubble. I think bitcoin keeps getting crushed under the weight of people who got in early and now want something for nothing.

You think wrong.
Those who have enough bitcoins to crush it were in it mainly for ideological reasons.
Those who like to speculate are all latecomers.

Guess that's what retailers want, eh? People with ideals. No need for that crappy, worthless money.

But here's a thought. If you're not in it for the money you are getting for doing basically nothing at all give all your bitcoins to charity. Oh, but that's right. You need the free money you are extracting from the bitcoin economy to buy nice things for yourself.

Nice post - I take it calmly myself.

Just to note that many who got in early are not doing it for money, but for ideological reason or intellectual/academic interest, hence quite unlikely to sell, especially for fiat.  In the 2011 crash, many also blamed the early adopter for cashing out and crushing the market, but that has turned out to be mostly false.   In any crash, it is the weakest hand that always get shaken out, because they can't afford to lose the money and/or lack conviction.   If one truly understand bitcoin and its implication, then one should care less about its market price, especially in fiat terms.

One thing the critics are right about is we have too many speculators in Bitcoin, what we need are merchants so that everything spreads out and people are using the currency for ordinary stuff rather than just messing with exchange rates, once we get that the prices should eventually stabalise because the speculators won't be able to have so much influence just from pouring in a few thousand into the exchanges.

I can't hate anyone for wanting to get in on BTC to make money.  At the end of the day all of us want to make money to a certain extent. Money doesn't buy happiness but it certainly allows us to take care of our responsibilities easier and gives us more time to enjoy things we enjoy which cost money to enjoy.

Bitcoin is an open currency for all to enjoy and play with how they see fit. Even if I don't agree with what they do with it.  My hope is that in the long run things will smooth out and the overall market will dictate what happens with bitcoin, not just a few speculators.

hold onto ya coin!

don't sell to the Je*

"In for the money? Get lost and good riddance"
I find that offensive.

i don't understand what i'm reading here.
the "new money" crashed the price? most likely the new money triggered sell orders set by the "old money" and i'll bet most of the "old money" sold into the slide and picked up cheap btc on the other side doubling their holding, whilst the new money were left with just a few btc, can you say ponzi?
reckon silverback has it right, if you believe in btc, then spread it around so everyone has a stake, setup a website and give it away, but not fractions of pennies like the free sites who rake it back and some with their ads, give away full btcs to us that want to support it but don't have the means to purchase it. bet you don't.

The idealists are mad that big money and big corporations and Wall Street are coming in and wrecking their fun game....and proving that it won't be the idealistic currency of the future that they envisioned.

And the casual miner is upset that big money is coming in and making their Mom & Pop mining operations obsolete.

I don't blame them for being irritated but it's just the way of the world that Big Money always wins in the end.  They have the legislators in their pockets to make anything legal or illegal that they want and they will take over Bitcoin and profit from in for a few months or years and then probably leave it in shambles.  Or they will just stick with it and it will become something that the overwhelming majority of the people can't profit from, like the larger stock market.

It's just the way it is and they always win and always will...

You have it totally backwards...speculator and daytraders NEED wildly fluctuating prices to exploit and make money.   They have been buying at the lows and selling at the highs for the past few days.  They want and need that to continue.  When the price stabilizes, is when they make leave, but only temporarily.

I don't get why people panic: there are cheap bitcoins to buy, it is wonderful

I think you should really be hunting down the assholes that decided to buy BTC at cheaper prices on the way down over the last two days. They are the true criminals! How DARE they destroy the value of Bitcoin like that! They should have offered more money instead of less to keep the prices higher!

Jesus fucking christ. People voluntarily wanted to sell and others voluntarily wanted to buy. One side thought the price was going to go down, the other side thought the price was going to go up. It's a gamble for each side even if the intention is to buy for the purposes of using Bitcoin as a currency. No one extracted anything from anyone. They simple agreed upon a price which coincided with the rest of the market at the time of sale. Two people can (and sometimes do) just as easily agree upon prices that are no where near the market price for any number of reasons. You poor miserable bastard. Woe is you for not finding Bitcoin earlier and making your own fortune off it. (Or maybe you did find it earlier and now you are butthurt for not investing in it sooner.) You might want to work on your google skills and maybe you can do better on the next big thing. Then you can put your money where your mouth is and spread your wealth to those who unfairly found your investment so much later than you did. It is your choice after all.

What were you boys doing?  :o

I agree! Great post. Btw anyone on here currently selling any BTC? I'm looking to purchase 1.