Bitcoin Forum

Currently, I have been experimenting with margin trading a bit, seeing how it works and what happens. I would only use small amounts, but just until recently I have used higher amounts 2-5 bitcoin, and today I put a long order (expecting the price to go up for profit) at 920$, and currently the bitcoin price is near $870 taking a total loss of -$203.20 (-5.56%), I really don't know what moves to make when I should take my loss or when I should cashout my profit. My intentions are to patiently wait for the price to settle a bit higher and see if I can take less of a loss or even maybe see it go above 925$ again, let me know if you think nthis is a bad idea.

One thing to keep in mind is that I am charged around 10$ in fee's when margin trading with around 5 BTC when I am doing this, so regardless I have to make 10$+ to profit which is the most annoying part for me, if anyone knows of a margin trading website that has low fee's please let me know of that too, thanks for the help.

I ended up taking a total loss of: $-298.15 + -$27.09 with an average percent drop of around -8.27%
The worst part is the second I sold my BTC, I decided to open a sell order so expecting the price to go down, and a few seconds later after placing that order the price shot up 30$ on kraken, causing me to lose another 50$ right away. I'm starting to think this just isn't for me.

Right now, Bitcoin is very very hard to trade, as the market is still deciding whether it has put in a bottom yet upon which to build from. My advice to you if you are margin trading 'just to see what happens', then stop immediately. Most traders lose money in the market same as most gamblers in the casino lose.

If you are going to trade BTC, then you have got to learn the rules of the game. You have got to learn what a trade setup looks like, you have to learn how to manage your risk, and above all else, you need discipline and a very thick skin. Even the most prolific traders that I know take absolute poundings from time to time and if you are the type that takes this sort of treatment from the market too much to heart, then believe me, trading is not for you! If a trader was looking at a long trade, here are some reasons that he may have to enter such a trade (plenty more reasons not to enter that trade btw, which are not shown on this chart), and how he may structure such a trade, operating strict profit and stop loss targets:

https://uk.tradingview.com/x/RhSdp61F/

If you are going to margin trade, then Kraken is most certainly not the place to do it. I would recommend BTC 3 Month Futures on OKCoin. There, you can get up to *20 margin, with 0% fees on market maker orders (i.e. orders placed in the bid/ask walls). Previously, I would have balked at recommending a Chinese exchange, due to the fact that these guys can just turn around and say "Fuck You!", before taking your money with impunity, with there being absolutely nothing you can do about it. But since in 2016, both Kraken and Bitfinex done exactly that to thier customers, it seems that the Bitcoin margin trader may as well take the better trading conditions and chunkier trading volumes on the Chinese exchanges. With that said, only send across a small amount of BTC at a time, and don't ever bet more than you are wiling to lose on any one trade. Just like Finex and Kraken, OKCoin actively trade against their own customers, and thanks to *20 margin position liquidating runs are common place.

Thanks for the advice, I also just wanted to spot out, when I said I was just margin trading to see what happens I meant I was just trying to learn how to do it with smaller amounts, and get used to it. I'm so glad there is a margin trading website without fee's.

EDIT: I Checked out OKcoin, and it allow users in the residency of the United States to use their website, do you know of any other websites like it? With the low fees.

There is Bitmex, but it is huge margin and low volume.

Definitely not for novices. Steer well clear of!

It appears Bitmex also doesn't have service in my country (USA).

Ok...last thing I knew it did.

But count yourself lucky that it doesn't.

>It appears Bitmex also doesn't have service in my country (USA).


Use a vpn service

I'm buying more bitcoins with my own bitcoins using  bitmex futures cheaper than spot.

spot: $815

bitmex futures 03/30/17: $ 800

good luck
 

Since OKCoin won't work for me in the USA, what is the best alternative (highest volume + lowest fees) for USA people like me?

Hi

Bitmex:

www.bitmex.com

Deribit

www.deribit.com

In both  you haven't  to verify personal data, so I do not see any inconvenience that you use it in the USA.

My advice is don't margin trade. When you are risking only your own coins then you can afford to be patient and wait till the right moment to sell. But with margin trading, the clock is ticking and you can incur big losses.

Console yourself that with your first trade, you sold at $870. You incurred a loss, but it is nothing like it would have been if you hadn't closed it. bitcoin is currently at $780.

I checked out bitmex but their margin trading fee's are .375% which with 5 BTC translates to about 15$ fee each time, that is worse than kraken.

is bitfinex safe to use for USA people ?

If you are happy to use an exchange that just recently took the arbitrary decision to dip into all their customers accounts to the tune of 36.6% of the accounts' value.........

.........then sure, go ahead.

Maker market fee are -0.0250%, you are paid when create an order and are taken for others.

https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees

I've been trading futures profitably on OKCoin since early December, so I'll pass along what little I know that has worked for me.

You need to know what kind of market you're in. I made great gains during december going long and just holding through the dips, and began scaling my position as the price breached 1000. You need to control your emotions and not let greed or fear get the best of you. At the time, as I started unwinding my long and watched the price rally higher, I felt stupid and the urge to re-long, but as evidenced by the crash it's always important to take profits when they've run high enough.

Now, we're currently in a period of uncertainty and fear and doubt. I made a couple of losing trades trying to take longer-period calls on price during the last couple of days when it flatlined before falling. this is the environment where, unless you've got thick skin and strong conviction, don't hold positions for too long and take profits when you can. Identify when you've made a bad trade and cut losses early. Nothing is worse than letting a position keep moving against you and feeling like shit, or worse still to try and average down and getting annihilated.

I've always looked at Bitcoin on a technical basis and try my best to identify levels I feel are strong resistance and support, and start building up long/short positions at those levels. Always have a plan in mind when you enter a trade, including your exit point and the point at which you cut losses. As the saying goes, "Plan your trade and trade your plan". You don't need to always be trading - if the market is going nowhere and there's no discernible short or medium term trend, just stay away. There will always be opportunities in the future, no need to chase trades that aren't there.

My personal view is that this is going to play out as a huge cup and handle pattern. We've seen the top of the cup with the second rally to almost all time highs, and now we begin the formation of the handle. While I feel that we might have reached a bottom, I think we might have more downside and an ultimate bottom around 700, unless we cut through that on a massive panic sell like we did when finex was hacked. This is when you should start thinking about a long position but even then, once you've made a healthy profit (an arbitrary amount different for each individual), close the position. Don't pray for a moonshot that never comes

Awesome advice.....

.....but the OP isn't there yet.



First, he got to go down the casino with all his chips and watch em get all eaten up, then start wondering how he only ever seems to make bad trades.

In a way you are right. This market is not meant for the newbies. You roll into in while taking risk.
Advice, tutorials will help you to some extent, but it's not meant for all of us. Honestly and every margin trader will say this, take educated risks, and use your profit to as a starting capital.

Because yes, there is no real advice when it comes to margin trading.

if you only have small funds in your wallet or you only use small funds, then i suggest you don't have trying to do margin trading because margin trading is more risky than trading. if in some situation you've got loss in trading, then you only risk all of your funds and it can cause your account is closed by the exchanges so stay away from margin trading before you have good experience in trading and have a big funds in your wallet.

I don't understand how this will help me, I have lost a lot of money in bitcoin gambling websites, probably over 10 bitcoin. BTW I know it can be hard to give advice with margin trading, mainly what I was asking for when creating this thread was better websites, things to look into for insight, and random things like that, that can greater your chance of profit a bit more.

iam only advice margin trading placed
if altcoin margin trading is the best poloniex
in bitcoin margin trading
1 kraken
2 bitfinex
3 bitmex
4 huobi
5 okcoin

or you can try platform bitcoin trading in forex trading meta trader 4, in there leverage is very big

If the personal data is not being verified at these trading sites, so it can be used anywhere with comfort. But still the interface is not so easy and a Newbie person wont find it easy to perform marginal trading at these sites.

I don't mean to be a party pooper but my advice is to stay away from margin - Bitcoin markets are quite volatile on its own (I would not say extremely volatile as it's something from the past - now the volatility is in range of crude oil volatility).

Even if you manage to stay on good side of it - if the exchange is suddenly down and you are unable to login and do the adjustments you will loose money and it won't really be "your" fault - just the exchange was down and you could do nothing about it. Basically that's what made Chinese to step in and the Chinese exchanges disabled margin trading for locals - if they are scared of anything in China it's public outrage.

Don't do margin trading if you don't know what you are doing. Margin trading is one of the toughest things a trader can do and the range for mistake is very slim so you need to be %100 sure that you are doing the right thing. If you are wrong even a single bit than all of your trade amount will go to zero right away.

I know investing normally can make you lose above 50% in crypto specially if you invested on all time high prices but even that is not 100% of your money and you still have a chance to make that money back if the prices go back up. In margin trading there is no option like that and you need to restart with new money to try to recoup the losses and that might result with more and more losses each time. It is more like gambling than trading to be honest with you.