Title: [AUCTION - finished]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin - Value Discussion Post by: Hiroaki on January 11, 2017, 08:31:31 PM Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin
Coin was originally funded by Mike (Casascius). Funded with 0.1BTC Starting Bid: 0.0 BTC (shipping is paid by buyer, package can be insured if buyer wants it; coin is packed in capsule and will be shipped in a jiffy bag) Increments: 0.05 BTC Auction will be valid until Saturday, January 14th, 2017 7:00 pm New York Time (1:00 am in Stockholm) Auction is finished if there is minimum difference of 30 minutes between last offers. https://i.imgsafe.org/69564c8052.jpg https://i.imgsafe.org/695631d454.jpg https://i.imgsafe.org/6956445770.jpg Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: miffman on January 11, 2017, 08:32:56 PM 0.1
Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: digicoinuser on January 11, 2017, 08:33:34 PM 0.15BTC
Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: miffman on January 11, 2017, 08:34:18 PM 0.2
Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: TMAN on January 11, 2017, 08:37:12 PM 0.25BTC
Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: dumbchump on January 11, 2017, 09:05:14 PM .3BTC
Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: AT101ET on January 11, 2017, 10:43:56 PM How many of these coins do you have? :D
If we can agree on a price I'd be happy to buy one outright without having to go through an auction. PM coming your way :) Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: Hiroaki on January 14, 2017, 05:38:03 PM bump
Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: LazerViking on January 14, 2017, 05:55:01 PM .35 btc
Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: Candsno8 on January 14, 2017, 11:58:18 PM 0.4
Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: roterdam on January 15, 2017, 12:12:59 AM 0.45 BTC it is not over
Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: Candsno8 on January 15, 2017, 12:17:06 AM 0.5
Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: HabBear on January 15, 2017, 06:51:35 AM Why do these tenths always go for significantly higher multiple than the halves or full coins?
It's never made sense to me. A silver half will go for 0.95 yet this tenth is already up to .3. Beautiful coins. The market is always hot but so hard to predict. Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: Candsno8 on January 15, 2017, 07:01:37 AM Maybe relative scarcity
Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: Gatorelf on January 15, 2017, 06:23:20 PM Numismatic value, no Casascius collection is complete without one :)
Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: miffman on January 15, 2017, 06:26:58 PM Why do these tenths always go for significantly higher multiple than the halves or full coins? It's never made sense to me. A silver half will go for 0.95 yet this tenth is already up to .3. Beautiful coins. The market is always hot but so hard to predict. What minerjones said is definitely true. But I think it's also important to note that with funded cryptocoins, there is no such thing as a face value multiplier to get to the market value. Cas silver singles ranged between 2-4x while brass singles range between 1-2x. So rather just think of it as supply and demand for the current value :) Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: HabBear on January 17, 2017, 05:12:00 AM No need for a book to look up the current count of active Casascius coins - here's a site that provides the most current count. It updates as soon as a coin is redeemed, whereas Elias' book (while it is a fantastic collection of history) is a point in time number, and therefore can become stale.
Casascius Coin Count: http://www.spotcoins.com/bitcoin/casascius (http://www.spotcoins.com/bitcoin/casascius) As for the run-up on the price of the tenths, scarcity should certainly play a part. However there are other BTC1 coins with lower mintage numbers, so it's not a perfect correlation. I still believe there is some illogical premium placed on the tenths and the halves that doesn't get realized with the full coins. Why do these tenths always go for significantly higher multiple than the halves or full coins? It's never made sense to me. A silver half will go for 0.95 yet this tenth is already up to .3. Beautiful coins. The market is always hot but so hard to predict. Maybe relative scarcity These are perfect questions to look up in your copy of the Encyclopedia of Bitcoins...... The 0.5BTC Silver coins had 886 of the Series 3 hologram (which this is one). There were also 45 of the Series 2 hologram The 0.1BTC Silver coins had 809 of the Series 3 hologram. .....Plenty of books available if you don't have one ;) Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: HabBear on January 17, 2017, 05:19:41 AM Not quite true, the multiplier is exactly what you've stated it is for each coin. The truth is that there doesn't have to be the same multiplier between different types of coins but each coin does have a multiplier if people are willing to play more than face and a buyer can use that multiplier range to arrive at a fair bid/ask price.
E.g., you list the multiplier for the silver singles at 2-4x and the brass singles at 1-2x...two different types of coins, different mintages, etc. It's fair that these multipliers would be different. And in this example the silvers have an active mintage of 1292 and the brass range in the 5000-6000 range. To MY example, a better test is if the multiplier between two coins with the same active mintage differs greatly - Sliver tenths and Silver halves (2013 series 3) have nearly the same mintage, yet I bet the tenths have a significantly higher multiplier across most sales. Just doesn't make sense to me...it's an inefficiency in the marketplace. Why do these tenths always go for significantly higher multiple than the halves or full coins? It's never made sense to me. A silver half will go for 0.95 yet this tenth is already up to .3. Beautiful coins. The market is always hot but so hard to predict. What minerjones said is definitely true. But I think it's also important to note that with funded cryptocoins, there is no such thing as a face value multiplier to get to the market value. Cas silver singles ranged between 2-4x while brass singles range between 1-2x. So rather just think of it as supply and demand for the current value :) EDIT: I just realized another reason why the run-up is higher with the tenths, particularly with auctions...it could be driven by the minimum incremental bid. The increment for a whol coin is usually BTC0.1, whereas this auction is at BTC0.05...50% of the minimum increment for a whole coin, yet the coin for this auction is a tenth of the face value! To get a fair bidding situation we'd need the minimum incremental bid for the tenth to be at BTC0.01. Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: Hiroaki on January 17, 2017, 03:43:14 PM I don't think there is an inefficiency in the market.
The 0.1 coin just sells better because it is more affordable and thus has a higher sales range. There are many people that would like to own a Casascius coin, but not everybody can spend 1 BTC for it. My opinion :) Not quite true, the multiplier is exactly what you've stated it is for each coin. The truth is that there doesn't have to be the same multiplier between different types of coins but each coin does have a multiplier if people are willing to play more than face and a buyer can use that multiplier range to arrive at a fair bid/ask price. E.g., you list the multiplier for the silver singles at 2-4x and the brass singles at 1-2x...two different types of coins, different mintages, etc. It's fair that these multipliers would be different. And in this example the silvers have an active mintage of 1292 and the brass range in the 5000-6000 range. To MY example, a better test is if the multiplier between two coins with the same active mintage differs greatly - Sliver tenths and Silver halves (2013 series 3) have nearly the same mintage, yet I bet the tenths have a significantly higher multiplier across most sales. Just doesn't make sense to me...it's an inefficiency in the marketplace. Why do these tenths always go for significantly higher multiple than the halves or full coins? It's never made sense to me. A silver half will go for 0.95 yet this tenth is already up to .3. Beautiful coins. The market is always hot but so hard to predict. What minerjones said is definitely true. But I think it's also important to note that with funded cryptocoins, there is no such thing as a face value multiplier to get to the market value. Cas silver singles ranged between 2-4x while brass singles range between 1-2x. So rather just think of it as supply and demand for the current value :) EDIT: I just realized another reason why the run-up is higher with the tenths, particularly with auctions...it could be driven by the minimum incremental bid. The increment for a whol coin is usually BTC0.1, whereas this auction is at BTC0.05...50% of the minimum increment for a whole coin, yet the coin for this auction is a tenth of the face value! To get a fair bidding situation we'd need the minimum incremental bid for the tenth to be at BTC0.01. Title: Re: [AUCTION - finished]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin - Value Discussion Post by: Lesbian Cow on January 17, 2017, 05:07:36 PM I think Hiroaki has the correct answer. There are more buyers for the 0.1 as it is a lower price point to enter the cas market so the premiums are higher due to a larger pool of buyers.
Similar to the 1/10 oz Gold Lunars/American Gold Eagles/Maples etc have a higher premium than the 1 oz versions of the same coins. Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: GMPoison on January 17, 2017, 05:10:22 PM I don't think there is an inefficiency in the market. The 0.1 coin just sells better because it is more affordable and thus has a higher sales range. There are many people that would like to own a Casascius coin, but not everybody can spend 1 BTC for it. My opinion :) Not quite true, the multiplier is exactly what you've stated it is for each coin. The truth is that there doesn't have to be the same multiplier between different types of coins but each coin does have a multiplier if people are willing to play more than face and a buyer can use that multiplier range to arrive at a fair bid/ask price. E.g., you list the multiplier for the silver singles at 2-4x and the brass singles at 1-2x...two different types of coins, different mintages, etc. It's fair that these multipliers would be different. And in this example the silvers have an active mintage of 1292 and the brass range in the 5000-6000 range. To MY example, a better test is if the multiplier between two coins with the same active mintage differs greatly - Sliver tenths and Silver halves (2013 series 3) have nearly the same mintage, yet I bet the tenths have a significantly higher multiplier across most sales. Just doesn't make sense to me...it's an inefficiency in the marketplace. Why do these tenths always go for significantly higher multiple than the halves or full coins? It's never made sense to me. A silver half will go for 0.95 yet this tenth is already up to .3. Beautiful coins. The market is always hot but so hard to predict. What minerjones said is definitely true. But I think it's also important to note that with funded cryptocoins, there is no such thing as a face value multiplier to get to the market value. Cas silver singles ranged between 2-4x while brass singles range between 1-2x. So rather just think of it as supply and demand for the current value :) EDIT: I just realized another reason why the run-up is higher with the tenths, particularly with auctions...it could be driven by the minimum incremental bid. The increment for a whol coin is usually BTC0.1, whereas this auction is at BTC0.05...50% of the minimum increment for a whole coin, yet the coin for this auction is a tenth of the face value! To get a fair bidding situation we'd need the minimum incremental bid for the tenth to be at BTC0.01. Yup. Not only is it one of the rarest editions of Casascius but it's a smaller denomination which makes it more obtainable by more people, thus driving the price up. Title: Re: [AUCTION]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin Post by: ezeminer on January 18, 2017, 04:50:21 AM I don't think there is an inefficiency in the market. The 0.1 coin just sells better because it is more affordable and thus has a higher sales range. There are many people that would like to own a Casascius coin, but not everybody can spend 1 BTC for it. My opinion :) Not quite true, the multiplier is exactly what you've stated it is for each coin. The truth is that there doesn't have to be the same multiplier between different types of coins but each coin does have a multiplier if people are willing to play more than face and a buyer can use that multiplier range to arrive at a fair bid/ask price. E.g., you list the multiplier for the silver singles at 2-4x and the brass singles at 1-2x...two different types of coins, different mintages, etc. It's fair that these multipliers would be different. And in this example the silvers have an active mintage of 1292 and the brass range in the 5000-6000 range. To MY example, a better test is if the multiplier between two coins with the same active mintage differs greatly - Sliver tenths and Silver halves (2013 series 3) have nearly the same mintage, yet I bet the tenths have a significantly higher multiplier across most sales. Just doesn't make sense to me...it's an inefficiency in the marketplace. Why do these tenths always go for significantly higher multiple than the halves or full coins? It's never made sense to me. A silver half will go for 0.95 yet this tenth is already up to .3. Beautiful coins. The market is always hot but so hard to predict. What minerjones said is definitely true. But I think it's also important to note that with funded cryptocoins, there is no such thing as a face value multiplier to get to the market value. Cas silver singles ranged between 2-4x while brass singles range between 1-2x. So rather just think of it as supply and demand for the current value :) EDIT: I just realized another reason why the run-up is higher with the tenths, particularly with auctions...it could be driven by the minimum incremental bid. The increment for a whol coin is usually BTC0.1, whereas this auction is at BTC0.05...50% of the minimum increment for a whole coin, yet the coin for this auction is a tenth of the face value! To get a fair bidding situation we'd need the minimum incremental bid for the tenth to be at BTC0.01. Yup. Not only is it one of the rarest editions of Casascius but it's a smaller denomination which makes it more obtainable by more people, thus driving the price up. Title: Re: [AUCTION - finished]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin - Value Discussion Post by: Quickseller on January 18, 2017, 06:50:08 AM Numismatic coins do not have a "multiplier" they have a preimum. I was actually very surprised to see how low this coin ended up selling for, although the physical coin market does seem to be very saturated right now.
This is as good a time as any to remind people how numismatics are priced. SALE PRICE = (FACE VALUE) + (NUMISMATIC VALUE) + (SELLER'S PREMIUM) Notice the lack of multiplication symbols; statements such as "2x face" or "10x face" have no meaning and no place in numismatics. The FACE VALUE for a Casascius coin would be the value of the BTC stored within, plus the spot value of any precious metals. The NUMISMATIC VALUE is an absolute value based solely on the desirability of the coin. This generally correlates with mintage, age, and condition, but other factors can be at play here as well. The SELLER'S PREMIUM varies from seller to seller, based on a number of factors including the seller's trustworthiness, care in packaging, supporting documentation or certifications, and other factors. The biggest point to make here is that with all other things being equal, FACE VALUE and NUMISMATIC VALUE have no bearing on one another. https://i.imgur.com/ihgR0i6.jpg Title: Re: [AUCTION - finished]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin - Value Discussion Post by: Blazed on January 18, 2017, 05:46:07 PM Numismatic coins do not have a "multiplier" they have a preimum. I was actually very surprised to see how low this coin ended up selling for, although the physical coin market does seem to be very saturated right now. This is as good a time as any to remind people how numismatics are priced. SALE PRICE = (FACE VALUE) + (NUMISMATIC VALUE) + (SELLER'S PREMIUM) Notice the lack of multiplication symbols; statements such as "2x face" or "10x face" have no meaning and no place in numismatics. The FACE VALUE for a Casascius coin would be the value of the BTC stored within, plus the spot value of any precious metals. The NUMISMATIC VALUE is an absolute value based solely on the desirability of the coin. This generally correlates with mintage, age, and condition, but other factors can be at play here as well. The SELLER'S PREMIUM varies from seller to seller, based on a number of factors including the seller's trustworthiness, care in packaging, supporting documentation or certifications, and other factors. The biggest point to make here is that with all other things being equal, FACE VALUE and NUMISMATIC VALUE have no bearing on one another. https://i.imgur.com/ihgR0i6.jpg I disagree with Nubbins on that point (we argued over it IIRC). Physical Bitcoins are not your typical numismatic coins and therefore have different premiums. We have a small specialized market with a unique method of pricing them. Face values on regular coins make no difference in prices, but with Bitcoin it makes all of the difference. Title: Re: [AUCTION - finished]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin - Value Discussion Post by: mindtrip on January 18, 2017, 06:13:11 PM 0.55 BTC
Title: Re: [AUCTION - finished]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin - Value Discussion Post by: Quickseller on January 18, 2017, 06:32:59 PM Numismatic coins do not have a "multiplier" they have a preimum. I was actually very surprised to see how low this coin ended up selling for, although the physical coin market does seem to be very saturated right now. This is as good a time as any to remind people how numismatics are priced. SALE PRICE = (FACE VALUE) + (NUMISMATIC VALUE) + (SELLER'S PREMIUM) Notice the lack of multiplication symbols; statements such as "2x face" or "10x face" have no meaning and no place in numismatics. The FACE VALUE for a Casascius coin would be the value of the BTC stored within, plus the spot value of any precious metals. The NUMISMATIC VALUE is an absolute value based solely on the desirability of the coin. This generally correlates with mintage, age, and condition, but other factors can be at play here as well. The SELLER'S PREMIUM varies from seller to seller, based on a number of factors including the seller's trustworthiness, care in packaging, supporting documentation or certifications, and other factors. The biggest point to make here is that with all other things being equal, FACE VALUE and NUMISMATIC VALUE have no bearing on one another. https://i.imgur.com/ihgR0i6.jpg I disagree with Nubbins on that point (we argued over it IIRC). Physical Bitcoins are not your typical numismatic coins and therefore have different premiums. We have a small specialized market with a unique method of pricing them. Face values on regular coins make no difference in prices, but with Bitcoin it makes all of the difference. I've also noticed that some specific sellers are able to command a higher price than others for similar coins consistently. Title: Re: [AUCTION - finished]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin - Value Discussion Post by: Blazed on January 19, 2017, 12:43:47 AM Numismatic coins do not have a "multiplier" they have a preimum. I was actually very surprised to see how low this coin ended up selling for, although the physical coin market does seem to be very saturated right now. This is as good a time as any to remind people how numismatics are priced. SALE PRICE = (FACE VALUE) + (NUMISMATIC VALUE) + (SELLER'S PREMIUM) Notice the lack of multiplication symbols; statements such as "2x face" or "10x face" have no meaning and no place in numismatics. The FACE VALUE for a Casascius coin would be the value of the BTC stored within, plus the spot value of any precious metals. The NUMISMATIC VALUE is an absolute value based solely on the desirability of the coin. This generally correlates with mintage, age, and condition, but other factors can be at play here as well. The SELLER'S PREMIUM varies from seller to seller, based on a number of factors including the seller's trustworthiness, care in packaging, supporting documentation or certifications, and other factors. The biggest point to make here is that with all other things being equal, FACE VALUE and NUMISMATIC VALUE have no bearing on one another. https://i.imgur.com/ihgR0i6.jpg I disagree with Nubbins on that point (we argued over it IIRC). Physical Bitcoins are not your typical numismatic coins and therefore have different premiums. We have a small specialized market with a unique method of pricing them. Face values on regular coins make no difference in prices, but with Bitcoin it makes all of the difference. I've also noticed that some specific sellers are able to command a higher price than others for similar coins consistently. I honestly think it depends on the coin. Lower face value ones seem to go from the face x whatever value and the larger coins get a random premium. What sellers get more from sales? It does make sense paying extra to deal with someone you know will deliver with no issues. Title: Re: [AUCTION - finished]Casascius 0.1 Physical Bitcoin - Value Discussion Post by: Quickseller on January 19, 2017, 03:27:30 AM Numismatic coins do not have a "multiplier" they have a preimum. I was actually very surprised to see how low this coin ended up selling for, although the physical coin market does seem to be very saturated right now. This is as good a time as any to remind people how numismatics are priced. SALE PRICE = (FACE VALUE) + (NUMISMATIC VALUE) + (SELLER'S PREMIUM) Notice the lack of multiplication symbols; statements such as "2x face" or "10x face" have no meaning and no place in numismatics. The FACE VALUE for a Casascius coin would be the value of the BTC stored within, plus the spot value of any precious metals. The NUMISMATIC VALUE is an absolute value based solely on the desirability of the coin. This generally correlates with mintage, age, and condition, but other factors can be at play here as well. The SELLER'S PREMIUM varies from seller to seller, based on a number of factors including the seller's trustworthiness, care in packaging, supporting documentation or certifications, and other factors. The biggest point to make here is that with all other things being equal, FACE VALUE and NUMISMATIC VALUE have no bearing on one another. https://i.imgur.com/ihgR0i6.jpg I disagree with Nubbins on that point (we argued over it IIRC). Physical Bitcoins are not your typical numismatic coins and therefore have different premiums. We have a small specialized market with a unique method of pricing them. Face values on regular coins make no difference in prices, but with Bitcoin it makes all of the difference. I've also noticed that some specific sellers are able to command a higher price than others for similar coins consistently. I honestly think it depends on the coin. Lower face value ones seem to go from the face x whatever value and the larger coins get a random premium. What sellers get more from sales? It does make sense paying extra to deal with someone you know will deliver with no issues. As I mentioned before, 25 BTC cas coins tend to sell in the 27-28 BTC range (a premium for 2-3 BTC) while a silver single cas will sell for about the same premium (both as of about a year or so ago). |