Bitcoin Forum

https://coinidol.com/eu-planning-a-database-to-link-user-ids-to-cryptocurrency-wallets/

Is this simply possible to make?

I know that anybody can create his own wallet with his own application on desktop. How can EU collect all those information. This simply seems impossible to put into action.

What do you think?

Are you kidding?  FBI has been doing it for a long time now.  Very easy to do.  Very hard to undo.

Yes it is, and correct me if I'm wrong coinbase already did this.
Simple, if some big companies or exchanging sites will have a deal or working together with EU regarding to this then they can have personal information gave by users of particular exchange.
This will be good to government side to monitor and to determine those who do illegal doings with bitcoin, and to take tax for this. But for those people who have privacy issues then its very difficult to them.

It won't be too difficult if they have access to Exchange databases with user information.

This will only work as long as people will keep linking their bank accounts to their coins. It's not that easy to link a person's name to an address, let's not forget that one person can switch between multiple wallets in a matter of seconds and own hundreds of addresses and to make an address one needs literally a second. What if people start buying stuff in stores with bitcoin? Will the shop owners start asking for your ID?

How do you know this? Do you have any source confirming that revelation? I am not saying that this is bs. I am very much inclined to believe that they are doing something like this.
After all people were kept in the dark about global surveillance programs PRISM, Echelon, Tempora, Dishfire, SORM and many more.

We anticipated this. We are making Monero.

This is blatant abuse of our privacy how can they even do this. So I read in one reply if you link your bank account only then they can get tour details. So mine isn't linked so does that mean my address is safe. But what could the possible outcome if they actually have our details. Why would the exchanges give them, isn't it a violation of our privacy? 

I do agree but information about our cryptowallets and usernames are on the internet already. It seems they are only compiling the data and put it in internet. I think our privacy is compromise but data are also elsewhere on the net, how much more if your name is after your wallet address posted on net.

They already have or can have whenever they want. If this will stop the dirty immigrants turned into terrorist pigs from invading Europe it's actually a very good thing. Privacy is just a myth anyways. Big Brother is always watching  ;D

I think that the only solution would be that there would be a fork on bitcoin that added chance for more private transactions, im not sure if the current algorhytm (SHA-256) allows to do that.
That is the reason why mixing your bitcoins is always a good choice, the fees are not that bad to pay for privacy. And also when they do this, they are driving us into more secure solutions, i think that it's no one's business what i do with my coins.
Cheerios, Onni

As Bitcoin isn't anonymous, they can always follow the blockchain from the points of access and exit from Fiat.
It doesn't sound to me like it would be too difficult to do, I think a program could follow the bitcoins very easily.

You would be able to get around it if you so chose, make a fresh address and mix the coins or trade through Alts like Monero or Dash, then back into Bitcoin, then you should be anonymous again.

Important for me is that they can't close my account, like they could with a bank account. They can look but they can't touch!

which mean that it would be difficult because not everyone is exchanging on a exchange with his ID, many are exchanging in real life or simply avoid those exchange that require sensible datas

it would be a cuncomplete database at best, also it's not like terrorist are so stupid to use an exchange with their ID come on...

Would a tumbler not instantly fix any problems your having with your details getting linked? or is it still possible for them to track you down after a good mixing?

If a user have bitcoin on wallet on which his ID is not linked to. Then this is impossible for authority to do that and place his information into a database.

There are millions of wallets. How many of them are linked to ids????

It depends on how much correctness is needed.
Clearly, they need "specialists" that understand how to read the transactions (FBI may have more than enough of those).
Then the database will have to tell how likely is that some addresses are yours.
Of course, my list will contain the Poloniex deposit address as mine, for example and may not be certain if my paper wallet is really mine.
It all depends on how many and how complicated your transactions are.

And the fact there are altcoins, many and more of them, makes the job even more complicated in some cases.

...and since it is for the sake of Fourth Money Laundering Directive... If the initiative gets support crypto will be recognized as a currency,

I think thats possible. Some exchange are requiring personal informations including your picture. This is a way to collect informations of bitcoin users. For that. It wont be harder for them to identify person which is doing shady activities. Its hard to avoid this because you need to give your personal informations to exchange your btc into. Me, i usually convert my btc into cash and it needed id to get it.

I think that if we go with the paranoid method, running something like tails and mixing the bitcoins through some high volume service would do it.
I think that via this way they cannot really be linked to you, Wallet -> Tor mixing service (of course you would need to run tor) -> Tails electrum with persistent storage (runs on tor by default).
That of course would be really viable method, if you did do a bitcoin -> monero -> bitcoin exchange that would be really secure too.
Cheerios, Onni

OP post and linked article is another FUD topic made to scare people.

what the actual EU stuff concerns is EU FIAT handling exchanges.. <-read 3 times, have a coffee, read three times again until it sinks in

Euro handling exchanges, which need to be regulated anyway, need to follow regulations(logic.. touch their money follow their rules).

this is the same for any money business.

it is not something about european bitcoin users(that dont handle fiat for business use).
it is not something about european developers making fullnodes
it is not something about european developers making non fiat touching webwallets.

it is about EXCHANGES.


coin idol did not factually talk much about the EU statement and instead made a article where they just talk to other bitcoiners about their opinions.

You don't always buy BTC on exchange service.

When somebody sells bitcoin to someone or buy goods or services to someone, then There is no exchange involve if this is done from paper wallets to paper wallets.

Authorities can start investigating from what exchange the BTC were bought from but can they say that all the wallets in which the BTC transited are owned by the original BTC user on the exchange?

if you buy bitcoin with euros and withdraw to address A
you move a->b
you move b->c
you move c->d
you move d->e

you can say that B was you buying something and B is a totally different person. meaning C, D and E should be left alone and not looked into.
meaning you think your safe at point C->

but if they see E was later linked to you depositing funds into an exchange or you bought something privately that linked to your home address. then all of a sudden A,B,C,D,E are all linked to you and any movements of any funds in the future related any way to ABCDE has some relation to you.

this is why people say only use an address once
for example
dont continually use C and D thinking only A and E are linked to your real life info

you move a->b
you move b->c
you move c->d     x->d  d->f
you move d->e

not only would they consider F is now linked to you too, they would also wonder who X was and why X paid you, and then check backwards at where X got their funds to pay you

It will be possible if those bitcoin user post his bitcoin address himself anywhere online. Also bitcoin transaction can be traced back and linked to email of the user or few more info of that user with the help of third party bitcoin payment processors or web wallet.

So if anyone take proper precaution while using bitcoin wallets and use tumblers/mixers in middle of transactions than even FBI can't find out personal details with only the help of cryptowallets/addresses.

Not leaving any trace is very hard in virtual world.. not impossible, but VERY hard indeed.
Almost every exchange service wants your personal details, some of them "only" name, phone and address, some of them they want even a pic of you with your ID.
Every web wallet is connected with your mail, or when you buy something for coins you also need to leave your name and address somewhere..
So it means it is really hard to stay anonymous if you are somehow active in a crypto currency world.  :-\

In my country what the government does is to  require all bitcoin escrow sites in our country to require users to validate their accounts using their government ID. If you have a verified documents you can convert your bitcoins into local currency but those who havent cannot purchase or sell bitcoin. This has increased security from fraud and scammers but not to hackers.

As far as I know, online stores don't report their buyer's home addresses, so if you buy something privately no government agency is notified.
Sending funds from address a to c through b can be easily traced, but mixing funds can't. More demand = more supply. If they start invigilating users there will be more cheaper and safer mixers to choose from.

Definitely, it can be happen if all of exchanges cooperate with EU to prevent bitcoin abuse.
but it's impossible to identify every users of bitcoin as there are a lot of options to generate a new wallet.
Just simply as that to prevent terrorist financing in EU without interfere id privacy.

All they can do is to try to link wallets created within exchanges to real people. Other than that, how are they ever going to know what some random address contains? it's not possible. They would need to get the address that is directly attached to a real person, and they can only do this by asking exchanges, and some people use VPN/TOR and don't give personal data (don't use fiat). Then it still remains impossible to trace them.

That's actually what it's all about (linking exchange wallets with users), the rest is just FUD.

But I wouldn't say that it isn't possible to link random addresses with real people, could be achieved by doing blockchain analysis and there are already a few companies that specialize in this.

You can do it only to some extent. For instance you see money being moved from 1 address to another. What proof do you have that both are owned by the same person? Also circumstantial evidence like that can't be used in a court case. Blockchain analysis can only show where the money went, but can't link a user's ID, until that user himself provides this ID to an exchange or a store where he spends the money.

Well if this will be official info that EU is doing this (now u can only guess about fbi), tumblers will grow in power and usage will skyrocket. Noone want to everyone know his whole wealth or when or what he is doing with his money.
So in future anonimity for bitcoin will be easier.

Coinbase does that. I tried to make an account there and it requests your legal name. I regret the fact that I actually wrote that data in, but I'm not going to use that account anyways. I'm scared to put a fake name too, because who knows how your account can end up being locked or banned or whatever.. I think Coinbase should be good for corporations because they need to show governments their earnings, but not for those like me wanting some privacy.. this is what I'm trying to achieve by using Bitcoin after all.

Yes that's right. We just think that we are free, but we are under invisible control all the time.

If you create wallets using TOR and use it with TOR and If you trade BTC without giving your personal information, then there is simply no way to get to you.

i look at this as a positive, if they are putting these things in place thats because they know it is going to go main stream.... :)  but the problem for them will be when some genius comes up with a way for any bitcoin user to tumble their coins easily........ by then its to late.... bring it on

It's possible to do that. and some company/organization has been done with it

I meant : is it possible to do this with every single wallet in circulation?

The response is clear and this is NO.

If you disagree, state your reasons...