Bitcoin Forum

WHY?

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extract from https://ripple.com/files/ripple_vision.pdf

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Setting the record straight: 6 XRP myths debunked

 

From time to time, Ripple gets questions about XRP, the digital asset native to Ripple Consensus Ledger (RCL). Ripple recognizes that distributed ledger technologies, digital assets, and consensus mechanisms are all complex topics, and is always happy to answer questions about how XRP works and its value in the global financial system as a result. However, recently there has been some misguided information being disseminated online which merits substantial clarification.

 

Myth: Ripple Consensus Ledger is centralized or a permissioned ledger

 

A permissioned ledger requires permission from some authority for access. The Ripple protocol is completely open and anyone can access the Ripple network without prior approval by Ripple or anyone else. With respect to centralization, the counterparty of a centralized ledger acts as a single point of failure for the ledger. Because RCL is decentralized, it can function without the participation of Ripple. Additionally, while Ripple provides validation on RCL, we do not manage the validation process nor do we run all the validators. MSFT and CGI are just examples of institutions running validators and validating transactions on RCL. Lastly, the Ripple network operates by the consensus of its participants. These participants can at any time choose which validators they use. As such, validation is ultimately in the hands of the network participants, not Ripple.

 

Myth: Ripple can increase the total supply of XRP beyond 100,000,000,000

 

There is no benefit to increasing the amount of XRP. This would destroy trust in the network and immediately make XRP worthless as no one would choose such a network. Furthermore, the ripple code is open source and can be audited by anyone – and it doesn’t contain any method to create additional XRP. As a result trust in the good intentions of Ripple is not necessary.

 

Myth: Ripple controls of the price XRP

 

Ripple does not control the price of XRP. We take the integrity of the XRP market incredibly seriously and would never do anything to compromise that integrity. In order to strengthen stability of XRP, Ripple is working toward increasing liquidity, payments volume, and low spread volatility. Our current off ledger liquidity building efforts speak very clearly to these goals. Also, it’s in Ripple’s own interest to promote the long term value of XRP. As such, any attempt to intentionally influence the short term price of XRP is nonsensical as it would imperil trust in the company and the asset.

 

Myth: There’s no bank use case for XRP

 

XRP has a clear institutional use case and ultimately, considerable value as a bridge currency. Going forward, XRP’s use as a value transfer mechanism will increase its utility which could translate to an increase in its value. To facilitate larger notional transfers by financial institutions XRP will necessarily have to be worth more. It’s important to note that while our ultimate vision incorporates XRP into global bank cross border payments via our Ripple solution, there are myriad scenarios and uses which are constructive to XRP.

 

Myth: It’s risky for liquidity providers to use XRP

 

We are in the process of listing XRP on several non-RCL exchanges. This will expand access to XRP,  increase the liquidity needed for XRP to facilitate cross border payments, and will reduce the market’s dependence on gateways. Additionally, we will soon offer an XRP lending facility to qualified market participants. This allows liquidity providers to fully participate in XRP markets without necessarily having to own XRP.

 

Myth: The value of XRP is inversely proportional to the value of Ripple as a company – and Ripple’s traction with banks has nothing to do with XRP’s success as a digital asset

 

The long-term value of XRP will ultimately be driven by its adoption as a cross border value transfer mechanism. Though XRP has important attributes which make it particularly useful for this use case, these attributes do not ensure full integration with our enterprise software solution. Ultimately, XRP can be successful regardless of Ripple’s success. Either way, we continue to do everything we can to make sure XRP eventually becomes the digital asset standard for international value transfer.

source: https://ripple.com/xrp-portal/xrp-resources/xrp%E3%81%AB%E9%96%A2%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%EF%BC%96%E3%81%A4%E3%81%AE%E8%BF%B7%E4%BF%A1/#english

ripple is garbage. It has been garbage since you could get it by lending your cpu to research. And that was a loooong time ago. It has no real necessity. It is trying to be in between old currency and new and it just isn't something people need.

Yup it is garbage

The year 2015 and 2016 marked the expansion of Ripple (company) with the opening of an office in Sydney, Australia in April 2015[52] and the opening of European offices in London, United Kingdom in March 2016[53] then in Luxembourg in June 2016.[54] Many companies have subsequently announced experimenting and integrations with Ripple.[55]

Integrations   Accenture[56] | ATB Financial[57] | Axis Bank[58] | BMO Financial Group[59] | Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC)[57] | CBW Bank[3] | CGI Group[60] | Cross River Bank[3] | Davis + Henderson (D+H)[61] | Deloitte[62] | Earthport[45] | Expertus[63] | Fidor Bank[44] | Mizuho Financial Group (MHFG)[59] | National Australia Bank (NAB)[59] | National Bank of Abu Dhabi (NBAD)[57] | ReiseBank[57] | Santander[64] | SBI Holdings[65] | Shanghai Huarui Bank[59] | Siam Commercial Bank[59] | Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken AB (SEB)[66] | Standard Chartered[59] | Tas Group[67] | Temenos Group[62] | UBS[57] | UniCredit Group[57] | Volante Technologies[68] | Yantra Financial Technologies[69]
Experimenting   Australia and New Zealand Banking Group (ANZ)[70] | Commonwealth Bank of Australia[48] | DBS Group Holdings[71] | Royal Bank of Canada[72] | Royal Bank of Scotland[73] | SAP[74] | Western Union[37] | Westpac Banking Corp[70]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(payment_protocol)

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https://www.xrpchat.com/topic/2761-6-superstitions-concerning-xrp/?do=findComment&comment=25150

Versus Bitcoin

https://i.supload.com/BJ-tQLOLe.png
https://www.xrpchat.com/topic/2666-what-are-your-views-on-xrp/?page=14#comment-24440

Seems strange to have this pop up after people questioning the huge releases of xrp by the foundation and questionable code. Me thinks some crowd control is in the works.

Response to China CERT Report
Jan 12, 2017 | David Schwartz
As a leader in open-source, distributed financial technology, Ripple recognizes the importance of security researchers and we always encourage responsible disclosure of potential security vulnerabilities via our bug bounty program. Ripple also employs regular external security audits and, as a matter of practice, the maintainers of the Ripple Consensus Ledger (RCL) technology (rippled) routinely use static and dynamic analysis tools on the C++ codebase (most recently version 0.50.0-b1).

The results of the last internal static analyzer run determined that the defect rate of rippled was below the threshold that is typical for open source projects. To date, there have been no critical vulnerabilities discovered through static and dynamic analysis of the rippled C++ codebase, and the issues that have been found have been false-positives. In addition to using automated scanning tools, manual reviews of the code by multiple engineers have failed to identify a single vulnerability and the minor issues that have been discovered have long been fixed.

Further, a recent independent security audit conducted by the NCC Group, a global security risk mitigation firm, revealed no serious security vulnerabilities, and found rippled “to be well-written and designed” before adding that it was clear that Ripple “has taken time to carefully consider the implementation.”

In a recent blockchain security report, China CERT claimed that software related to Ripple’s open-sourced, distributed ledger technology has “230 high-risk security vulnerabilities.” Unfortunately, since the researchers behind the report did not demonstrate responsible disclosure by contacting Ripple prior to publication, we do not know what testing methodology or techniques were used nor which code repositories were tested. As a result, we were forced to investigate the claims being made after the fact, with no guidance from the security researchers and very little context.

From what we can determine, the methodology appears to have been strictly limited to automated analysis tools run over a mixture of both security critical code and code that has no security implications whatsoever. The quantitative results were determined by the number of possible vulnerabilities identified by the tool and the possible severity of actual vulnerabilities in that class. (for example, any code that might have a buffer overflow would be identified as high risk, because if there actually is a buffer overflow issue and the code is actually security relevant, that could cause a significant compromise).

Automated analysis tools typically have extremely high false positive rates of about 99%. When projects that already use this same methodology are tested in this way, the false positive rate nears 100% since all actual vulnerabilities that could be found in this way already have been found.

Again, Ripple recognizes the importance of security researchers, and we take any reports of security vulnerabilities very seriously. At this time, we do not feel confident in the accuracy of the CERT report. Furthermore, based on the way in which the report was published, we question the legitimacy of the reporting body. We are confident in our processes and our codebase, and expressly state that this report identifies no actionable items and our review, in response to it, found none either.

We will continue to promptly and vigorously investigate all reports of security vulnerabilities, and urge anyone who thinks they have identified such a vulnerability to responsibly disclose it to us via our bug bounty program.

https://ripple.com/dev-blog/response-china-cert-report/

They code and know more than most

https://i.supload.com/HkY148_Ug.png

https://github.com/ripple/rippled/graphs/contributors

Live working transaction between ATB to Reisebank in 8 Seconds using ripple XRP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAnHzDEP8GM

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details in video from https://youtu.be/VIGIjcNMPR4?t=20m10s

from 20:10

https://ripple.com/xrp-portal/xrp-resources/xrp-compares-btc-eth/

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/case-against-bankcoin-brad-garlinghouse?trk=prof-post

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Lol, the world DOES NOT need Ripple XRP, period.

Yup you are smarter than these investors

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Technical details podcast from ripple's cryptograper David Shwartz


https://itunes.apple.com/podcast/bitcoins-gravy/id993012193?mt=2&i=1000341657719

I don't know why this con is on the first five most capitalised project on coinmarketcap.com, I report came out last week that it is one of the most on secured blockchain project out there, truly I'm not surprise about the result of the report but what do  surprise me is that people are still buying into it.

Because it's deflationary

watch this
https://i.supload.com/BJU3xKuLx.png

now go to

https://charts.ripple.com/

see total XRP under Ripple Network Stats

it's lesser than the picture above by the seconds

Ripple is the Illuminati/Archon gateway between the old banking cabal and the freaky new world of crypto.
Its very well done though, amazing system, compared to what is in use now.

But to claim its not under centralised control and "the world needs it" is a blatant lie.
So far, "they" sold out each and every rally, either "The Lab" or McCaleb.

I don't see why that would change in the foreseeable future.
Its just too nice a cow to milk, and the value of the token is totally unimportant to the institutional users.
The token isn't meant to be for payment, just for fees, so its in their best interest to keep it in a stable range.

So what I don't get is how does the consensus mechanism for ripple work?

With bitcoin this is easy: If I want to state what transactions I consider valid I would simply mine on the according chain.

But how do I state which transactions I consider valid in Ripple?

For the average investor it's currently inflationary. At the current rate of increase for 2017 over a billion new ripple will have been released into the market by the end of January alone. To project something as deflationary when the supply to your average investor is growing this quickly seems somewhat disingenuous. Any deflationary effects only occur 30 years into the future for the average investor.

if your really keen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7abKUs9tYZg
https://ripple.com/build/ripple-ledger-consensus-process/

https://ripple.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Overview-of-Ripple-Ledger-Consensus-and-Validation-12_12-05-1024x542.png

Comparing Digital Currencies? Market Cap Doesn’t Tell the Whole Story
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/comparing-digital-currencies-market-cap-doesn-t-tell-the-whole-story-1482418052/

Yup the world doesn't need ripple

that's why Vitalik of Ethereum wanted to join Ripple
https://youtu.be/fbEtivJIfIU?t=11m22s (proof)

The old banking cabal needs Ripple XRP - but why would they let outsiders profit from it?
It is just a payment rail.  And they still need to harness BTC liquidity to settle up.  So why not just use BTC?

Speed maybe, but not really.  

And there is no reason for them to beef up capital.  Since again it is just a cost cutting payment rail.  More capital means more risk.  What XRP needs is a tight, non-volital rate of exchange.

The old banking cabal has a toy called Ripple XRP.  And it is only profitable if the general public ignores the fact that they can wire it themselves, for less.

wild wild west and no real world application

Bitcoin's price is purely speculative and psychological because it is not in any way tethered to the economy the way fiat is (through taxation and legal enforcement). Fiat is literally backed by the entire sum of the economy; it's bitcoin that's truly created "out of thin air" (and a waste of electricity in a Green World). Nor does it have required governance that attempts to reign in the psychological swings. Bitcoiners have deluded themselves collectively into thinking that money can be a "pure abstraction"; it cannot. The evolution of money is the story of one progression to the next by way of a claim check to the previous money, which is and was always tied directly to the goods and services of an economy and guaranteed by some governing power.

The future of money is a DIGITAL claim check, part fiat, part commodities, issued by central authorities but cryptographically secure and tethered to an economic purpose at source. It will not be a cryptocurrency like bitcoin; the nation state (as long as it lasts) will always control – for good or ill – the supply and demand through inflationary and deflationary practices in reaction to however the economy grows or declines.

Bitcoin can disappear forever in a cloud of smoke – poof! Gone. Unrecoverable. Black hole. Digital fiat can be reissued when needed and programmatically melt away in a thief's hands.

But that's the least of bitcoin's problems. If it did ever become global money (which will never happen) then it will eventually be hacked, manipulated and ultimately destroyed by powerful forces and new discoveries, perhaps even a new Turing or supercomputer. It is not provably secure; it simply hasn't been cracked YET. There is no way we can base a world currency on something that within a few seconds a single person or machine can crack and destroy.

So we are left with digital tulips just waiting to implode, one way or another. The libertarian fantasy is what keeps it strong for now – a fantasy that faith in an algorithm can save money from the hysteria of the masses. It's become the "decentralization" mantra, a new religion, and Satoshi is Money Jesus come again to save us from the Sins of Central Bankers – who for the most part are actually trying to help us.

"a DIGITAL claim check, part fiat, part commodities, issued by central authorities but cryptographically secure and tethered to an economic purpose at source"

break that down:

1. "claim check" ... claim on what? credit in the system?
why not just direct CREDIT

2. okay you're saying ... claim check ... is for part fiat, part commodities, right?
cool ... and then what F is underwriting BTC ... could it be rate of exchange for part fiat, part commodities??

3.  "issued by central authorities"
see those are fightin words, you boot licker, and demonstrates that ... YOU DON'T GET IT!

4.  "tethered to an economic purpose at source"
HUH?  Transmit value, no?  Is that the purpose?  And yet XRP sucks at that given CAP/VOL facts. Store value, no?  Well XRP been okay at that, but only because "central authorities" have yet to dump.  Because the liquidity is not there.  

5. 'Digital fiat' ... $TET is kicking your XRP ass ... and specifically tethered to real known bank credits.  

6. 'The libertarian fantasy is what keeps it strong for now – a fantasy that faith in an algorithm can save money from the hysteria of the masses. It's become the "decentralization" mantra, a new religion, and Satoshi is Money Jesus come again to save us from the Sins of Central Bankers – who for the most part are actually trying to help us.'

It's the New Age, New Religion.   Get right with Money Jesus brother.

Central Bankers – who for the most part are actually trying to help us.
Central Bankers – who for the most part are actually trying to help us.
Central Bankers – who for the most part are actually trying to help us.

You bet they been 'trying to help' us since 1913 ;)

From what I gather you are basically just creating a new credit card company with ripple without the cards. You are not in any way trying to change the current system of finance/economics. Basically it is a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Also, ripple would not survive the collapse of bitcoin. Neither would a large majority of altcoins. I guarantee you that most of those banks that are interested in ripple will eventually carve out the bits and pieces they like and establish their own systems and leave ripple by the wayside.

And if you want people to listen to why you think your xrp is good and necessary, try not to come off as condescending.

$XRP Ripple is a forex platform.

For retail services you will not beat PayPal penetration because of the massive investment into developing the UX they have achieved. Are they overcharging for their service? Yes. Will competition from other consumer facing retail payment solutions like Square, Dwolla, Venmo, Applepay, google pay etc drive down the price point, yes. Interledger will bind them all and Bitcoin will die when zerocash eats its lunch in the gambling and capital flight markets.

answered
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1752760.msg17508363#msg17508363


Ripple saves me $

BitCoin an instrument for gambling

XRP is centralized trash. If you're pro crypto you are against centralization.

argued

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1752760.msg17508243#msg17508243

How Ripple help me save money

https://ripple.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Graph_Ripple.png

Where does ripple sit in the current system?

at the bottom

https://i.supload.com/ry2xA6K8g.png

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eqCv7SKAOQ

okay so you've got a thing for bankster knob.  there's no reasoning with the perverse.

Riddle me this Rippie ...

Where can I get a Ripple address?  With priv key that only I know.
I am sure you're well researched so that direct link is easy to provide.

1.  Download wallet.  2.  Run on home computer.  3.  Got private key.

Guys spammed the hell out of Poloniex's Troll-Box with "Ethereum is used by IBM" way back eh..
I disputed it and asked questions and was banned by staff and insulted again.
They had a notorious habit of doing that.. never challenge the bullshit their spammers post !
Never interfere with the victims the exchange is grooming.
Which is what theses coin count on.. they are counting on kids showing up with out doing any research then simply clicking the buy button.
They KNOW they are not looking into the coin first and are greedy and shallow and young & stupid.
Predators who are more often than not old guys preying on children (there is no age requirement in crypto)
These scammy fuckers prey on children for their lunch money with lies.

AKA: Big Banks are a comin' !
Both Ripple and Ethereum have played that card.
Ripple is the champ though.. they keep re-posting that "Big" news over and over here for years.
..to no effect  :D

What did the little assholes at Polo say when i probed them about IBM ?
They said they were testing the ETH technology in-house.
After a while i noticed they went 100% silent about it though.
So i asked.. hey loud mouth shill.. what happened ?
The same old usual suspects said oh, well.. IBM tried it out and decided to do their own custom stuff.

AHAH !

Hmm makes ya think now don't it ?

Guess what ?
I already predicted that would happen countless times far before the shilltard said it.  ::)

I also at the time way back had asked the shill moron so.. uhhh..
Are the coins at Poloniex for ETH connected to the coins at IBM ?
They said uhh NO.
I said so their coins are in an internal network not connected to the outside world ?
He says.. uhh Yeah.
I said so tell me again why this matters to the victims on the chat box ?
i was banned soon after ROFL  :D

But hey, nice topic title ..it's not April 1st yet though  ;D

I wouldn't bother guys.. these Ripple guys are the most persistent in crypto.
They are not going to walk away from this cash cow scheme they have going.
They got a taste and are not walking away..
There is a never ending supply off foolish naive greedy little children to victimize in Crypto so..

PS:
I have said lots in the last couple years..
..how do Banks "Use" one of these scammy ICO coins with out buying them ?
And why would they ?
Wouldn't a Large Bank simply hire a dev and fork the code etc and make their own private implementation so they don't have to buy idiot ripple ICO baggy coins ?

Fleecing Tot's for Token's is big business !
Just more White Papers to wipe my ass with... they are not worth the paper they are printed on ROFL

YEP!

---
game over
d'Spoet hath spoken

there is BTC
there are ALT 'shitcoins'

and then there is flatout SCAM trash
XRP is still king of that pile


There is enough open source 'witness/master-node' block chain code in the wild to build your own.
Cheap to run. And it is Fast. And the banks could settle credit line limits via BTC in under an hour. [most would be using the same BTC brokerage so could transfer in house] And top that off with a 'central banker' holding the traditional bond/legal/cash to settle up old skuul should any player go broke.  All for far less than a $300M chain.      

No. Bitcoin has never been centralized not even because gavin put out updates that everyone went with. Nobody was forced to adopt any new code and xrp holders are forced to eat shit when the xrp corp releases millions and millions of new coins.

https://github.com/ripple/ripple-client-desktop

This is a hidden video by Chris Larsen co-founder of Ripple on internet of value

MBA 1991 classmates present TED Talks at their 25th Reunion, September 10, 2016.

Chris Larsen: The Internet of Value
Stanford Graduate School of Business

https://youtu.be/Jb9EeG7oZUI

Technology alone will not change the world

Why don't Elon Musk issue a tesla or spaceX token to raise money?

https://i.supload.com/S1UftYnIg.png

All cryptocurrency have no real world application currently

You just run rippled.

CAUTION: Oversimplified explanation. -- At all times, rippled has an "open ledger" that is uses kind of like a scratchpad. When your server receives a transaction, it applies it to the open ledger. If the transaction applies successfully, your server relays the transaction to other servers. When the next consensus round starts, your server will propose (just to itself if it's not a validator, to the world if it's a validator) that the transactions in your open ledger be applied to form the next "real" ledger. The network reaches an agreement on that set of candidate transactions, applies it to the last closed ledger, and then builds a new open ledger based on that.

Gavin could have released bitcoin code that produced new bitcoins, but had no ability to force anyone to run it. It's absurd that he would have done so, but if you go through the thought experiment, very few people run it and Gavin loses credibility. Maybe bitcoin finds a new Gavin, maybe it goes on without a benevolent dictator, maybe it dies. But it's very hard to imagine him successfully forcing everyone else to accept a change like that.

And the same reasoning applies to Ripple and XRP. Sure, we can make any change to the code we want. And we can try to get people to run it. And maybe they will and maybe they won't. In practice, we probably have a lot of power right now. We could probably do some evil at the margins for a short period of time if we wanted to, just as Gavin could have. But if we did something truly crazy, it's hard to imagine people following us.

I mean, either people care about the network or they don't. If nobody cares, then what difference does it make? If people care, why would you expect them to go along with changes that hurt them dramatically when they have a clear alternative?

There is no RCL secret source. The public source code is the source code we run. Our validators run the same code everyone else's validators runs. We hold no power to control the validators other people trust or who runs a validator.

On the other hand, we do hold an awful lot of XRP. We could, for example, crash the market for XRP by selling a huge amount in a short period of time. That would hurt us more than anyone else. And our conduct has demonstrated to date precisely the opposite -- we've worked to lock up XRP and we've discussed our plans for how we'll release XRP to the world. But, of course, we remain free to follow our own interests as we see them. That is a big difference between XRP and many other assets. If you think we will be good stewards and our plans are likely to build demand, then you will tend to expect the price to go up. If you think we will screw it up, abandon XRP, or fail for some reason, then you will tend to expect the price to go down.

Was that meant to be a defense of Ripple dumping 333 million XRP on the markets with no warning or explanation as quoted by the guy before you ?

If so.. you FAILED  :D

Ripple, the company, has never dumped XRP on the market. We definitely have had a problem with founders XRP getting sold in large amounts and we've worked extensively to get that locked up, even getting involved in several lawsuits.

It is absolutely fair to criticize how good or bad a job you think we've done in preventing XRP from getting dumped. But it is absolutely baseless and unfair to accuse us (other than Jed himself) of actual dumping.

We don't need XRP sales to fund the company. If XRP will never be worth more than it is now, then XRP doesn't matter, never did matter, and never will matter. If XRP will be worth more in the future than it is now, then why would a well-funded company with lots of XRP want to dump it?

There were actually two cases where there was attempted dumping that you could make a reasonable argument that we had some responsibility for. In both cases, we immediately took that XRP off the market and sought compensation from the parties.

Somehow it seems to me, based on your business model, that you rather prefer the price to remain stable. The adoption is quite slow and as I understand mostly supported by distribution of XRP.

Stable is definitely better than volatile, even with some net increase. But a higher price helps us in several important ways:

1) A higher price means we can sell XRP for more money and thus increase our funding.
2) A higher price will be perceived as success. Perceived success helps drive adoption.
3) You can't use XRP to bridge a $1 million transaction today because you'd take huge losses from moving the price. We want XRP to bridge large transactions.

Of course, any kind of manipulation or hype to raise the price in the short term wouldn't help us. The inevitable subsequent crash would both increase the price of holding XRP making it harder to use it as an intermediate asset and it would be perceived as an indication that price growth doesn't reflect a genuine perception of success. Also, if you are worried that the price will drop, that will mean that you can't rely on XRP to bridge large transactions in the future because it might not have enough value and liquidity, so you won't build systems that rely on it (or perhaps even ones that benefit from it).

One of the ways you build consensus and volume is to get early adopters on board. Early adopters have to make investments in technology and infrastructure and take business risks that won't pay off if you fail. It helps a lot if people believe that your success is inevitable.

I am really thinking about your words in the context of banking in the US in the 1800s. It was a time with many banks and currencies. Check out this podcast  The Bank Wars  (http://historyauthor.com/2016/02/paul-kahan-the-bank-war/). Ripple it seems, is meant to be for payments in the short term, but I am sure they would like to issue it to people in the future. They are a crypto banking cartel and would like to kill the other cartels in the old economy if they could I suspect. Once ripple reaches a critical mass in any region there is no longer a reason to allow other banks to join? They could issue liquidity in venezuela for example and by pass the whole diplomacy route. Also, as Fiat currencies and governments have lost the trust of the people they will need to be replaced. Cross border payments is just the gateway drug for ripple, I am sure they have much larger aspirations.

As important as knowing what you are is knowing what you aren't. The payments business is *huge* and it's going to take us a very long time and maximal effort to both grow it and take a slice of it. We've definitely talked about other things, but we're already trying to do as much in the payments space as we possibly can.

For example, there are a few people within Ripple who think that we should be doing something big in the identity space. I'm not one of them, and they are definitely in the minority. And the reason is this: Imagine if we had a perfect idea and fully-formed product for that space. We'd still need to market it, support it, and so on. Getting significant enough market traction to make it valuable is a massive undertaking,  comparable in scope to our current and planned efforts in the payments space. If we could double those, we would, we wouldn't build a second, equally large, parallel effort in another space.

That said, we do constantly re-evaluate our strategy and direction. And we do constantly evaluate whether we're trying to do too many things (and spreading ourselves too thin) or too few things (and possibly missing opportunities).

I agree and did not add any time frames to my comments. Yes, it will take some time for you guys to BLOCKBUSTER the SWIFT network and hopefully western union as well.

I will keep Ripple on my buy list. I think it has a place in the ecosystem as we transition away from old money to smart money. I think being added to cold storage wallets signals to the community that something is afoot and a TV show like Dash! That might be cheap with a great PR return. Also, the immigrants should be made aware of what a ripple bank is? You should be able to send a ripple cards to your family members back home, maybe up to 10 cards tied to one account in a western nation. I should be able to split up 200 bucks across 10 family members instantaneously.

I suggest you contact Gliss (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=61526) who runs CoinMarketCap to inform him of this error you found then.

Feel free to refer him to pictures i posted showing how the market cap increased.

Hmm such a mysterious coin with much explaining needed huh ?  :D

Proof ? --> Re: Ripple releases 333 million more Tokens (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1735977.msg17378828#msg17378828)

I interpret "dumping" to mean selling on the open market. Yes, we absolutely do sometimes put large amounts of XRP into circulation. For example, as a result of a partnership deal, a partner might receive several hundred million XRP. There's always some agreement about how they will use that XRP and clauses that prevent them from dumping it.

Obviously, this can have a negative effect on the price of XRP. But we only do it when we believe the value of the partnership justifies the cost. Anyone who holds XRP, particularly those who are contractually prohibited from dumping it, shares our interest in seeing the price appreciate over the long term.

Because when you create and own all your coins you can make whatever cap you want.

_nur still shilling this SHEEEET!

JoelKatz ... i'll give you a pass since I believe you can actually code.

But it doesn't make any sense at all, I look at the price movement most time, it seems to me that someone somewhere is playing with the price. Why would I use something that I know the creator can wake up someday and dillute the coin the more

You scream lies then flood this place with walls of text giving us the tech mumbo jumbo runaround
then..
You do a 180 and say oh well yeah you are 100% correct Spoetnik and YES we did indeed unleash 333 million coins on the public with no warning or explanation at all.
The fact anyone even notices was simply an accident otherwise you all would have gotten away with it.

Ripple guys got balls !

They print their own money and do what ever the fuck they want.
Such as putting out more coins because of a "partnership deal"
..a bullshit excuse (other wise prove it)

When in fact you unloaded them to jump over Litecoin in the Market Cap standings.
That *IS* deceitful manipulation and bordering on fraud.
AND you are busted caught red-handed with your sleazy shenanigans.
If that guy i quoted earlier is correct and you guys were caught doing this before and were penalized by CoinMarketCap then hell yeah they should totally punish Ripple again.. LIKE FINCEN DID.

Hmm FINCEN Spoetnik says ?
Yeah.. seems of all coins in all of Crypto they decided to previously fine the Ripple guys.
Why ?
Because they were acting scammy.. again.

You Ripple idiots hold the honor of being the only scammy ass shitcoin to fuck up bad enough to have FINCEN punish you.
Quite an honor  :D

You guys are unreal  ::)

..just gotta have that fucking money huh ?
push push push no matter what eh ?
Not gonna give up are you guys ?

---

EDIT:

So... think Spoetnik is being dramatic eh guys ?
Well.. guess what ?
When doing a Google search with the keywords "FINCEN violation"
Guess what shows up as the 4th highest ranking web page on the planet earth ?

FinCEN Fines Ripple Labs for Bank Secrecy Act Violations - CoinDesk (http://www.coindesk.com/fincen-fines-ripple-labs-700000-bank-secrecy-act/)


http://i68.tinypic.com/t8ki90.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ICkVnwj.png

Convicted guilty of a Financial Crime ?
No big deal ? Who Cares ? mhhhmmm sure ::)

I guess they have to recover that 450k somehow or another huh ?

I don't know if you particularly care about facts, but "Convicted guilty of a Financial Crime" is completely untrue. There was a criminal investigation and a civil enforcement action. Ripple settled the civil enforcement action by paying FinCen a fine (and agreeing to other terms, basically that we would follow the law as FinCen understood it) and FinCen agreed not to prosecute us.
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/05/05/settlement_agreement.pdf

The agreement is an NPA.
http://us.practicallaw.com/9-608-6205

However, if we breach the agreement, FinCen can bring criminal charges against us. They can use our admissions under the NPA as evidence against us in a future criminal trial. So it's still a very serious matter.

Weirdly, though it was one of the most awful things we went through, it probably strengthened us. There was no actual prosecution, and partners reasoned that we probably would not have been able to get an NPA unless FinCen was convinced that our future conduct would be lawful. Oddly, I think in retrospect it actually helped us!

If you're ever in San Francisco, let me know. I'll buy you a beer and tell you the real story of that action.

WOW really ?
So being accused then settling and handing over a half million dollar penalty is proof of innocence ?

The Ripple media-spin never does stop does it ?

Yes, these are things called facts.

No, but being accused and settling is not proof of guilt either.

As I said, this was only if you were interested in knowing the facts.

Why the world needs Ripple ? In white paper form ? ooh la la so sounds so official & legit  :o

I am tremblin with excitement at the ROI'z possibilities.. my wallet is gonna vibrate out of my pocket !

So uhh hows the Big Banks are "using" Ripple News thing posted bi-monthly working out ?
Is THAT why the world needs Ripple ?
You think they enjoy your excuses for FiNCEN coming after Ripple bullshit ?

No worries bro.. shoot 'em a "White paper" ..problem solved !
Or are they not dumb like the rest of these greedy kids in crypto ?

Topic title ? Uhhh why again sorry i missed that part.
Got caught up in the endless stream of Ripple bullshit that all pretty much goes ignored year after year.

Hmm how did Cryptsy get in paid "anonymous" votes ?
How long did they refuse to add it because it was scammy ?

And about that giveaway.. how many of us did you scam out of our personal info with the 400+ page giveaway topic that you guys never paid anyone 1 single coin ?
It said right in the topic "Official"
You made all of us for 400+ pages sign up at Ripple's web site and create a wallet and then come here and post the address and not one fucking guy got a coin and then you simply locked the topic and never mentioned it again.

You want to talk about a group who have a scammy past ..your lookin' at the mother fuckers people  :D

..this crypto scene is a sleazy little fucking shithole full of corrupt human garbage.

THOSE are the "FACTS" sweety pie ;)

It's been a long time, but my recollection is that the giveaway operated for some time, making hundreds of payouts. I just checked a random sample of the accounts pasted on the page, and all of them had received their giveaway. Sadly, most of them had transferred the XRP given to them to a small number of aggregator accounts. That could mean that they sold their XRP, but more likely I think it indicates that a significant fraction of the giveaway went to scammers. Yes, we screwed up. But our heart was in the right place.

No personal information was needed to participate in the giveaway. All you had to do was paste a ripple address. As a practical matter, most people probably did use our hosted services to create those addresses, but they didn't have to. The javascript code to create a secret and ripple address was public at that time.

You did have to publicly map your user ID to your ripple address. In later giveaways, we used a blinding system that made this mapping impossible. But later we switched to giveaways only to people who had completed KYC with us at first and later partners.

We tried again with several other giveaways. Some of them were moderately successful (as I think that one was) but in all cases, the giveaways were gamed. It turns out it's really hard to get this right. I think we were also more concerned than perhaps we needed to be about the legal risks of sending something that might be money to persons unknown to us. But you have to remember, it was 2013, and all this stuff was still pretty new.

It's absolutely fair to criticize us for the problems these giveaways had. We were totally blindsided by how hard it was.

If you inadequate to the task of distribution then your certainly not up to the task of supporting a global currency.

You have provided the proof yourself.

Your recollection is shockingly wrong.. again Joel.
Because the simple fact is people were STILL asking "did anyone get their free coins ?"
..all the way up to page 400

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145506.msg3291721#msg3291721



We gave over our personal info.
No one got any coins.
Then you guys claim you got hacked ?
Did we lose our personal info ? No one knows the topic was locked.

@JOEL
As usual your a liar spewing complete fucking bullshit and simply causing a diversion with long winded run-arounds here trying to defend the endless shitstorm of bullshit that is Ripple.

All i did was Google "Bitcointalk Ripple Giveaway"
And that page i mentioned was hit #1.
Yet you feel obliged to hand us some hazy recollection that contradicts reality.

HEY EVERYBODDY

CRYPTO NEWS - JOEL SAY'S RIPPLE IS LEGIT NOW !


http://www.empresariocapital.com/files/3414/3032/9573/tumblr_nd5btywiMY1rp3edho5_250.gif

..white paper approved  :D

PS:
He is a liar.. he did not "check" any accounts and see payments went out.. because none did.
I sure as hell did not get mine when i handed over my info and posted my address here.

What do you expect ? scroll back a page or two on the last 2 topics / pages on Ripple and see him lying about other shit.
Such as there was no 333 million dumped onto the market.. which we DO KNOW was true.
yet he tried like hell to claim it was lies & FUD etc.
..then later admitted it when he was cornered and threatened with talking to Gliss about it.

Well, that was three years ago. We're a much different company now. Not only are we more than ten times larger, but we've been able to recruit people with expertise in areas other than just crypto-currencies. But, yes, we're still trying to do things that are very new and we'll likely still make lots of mistakes.

You can check the addresses in that thread yourself, just like I did. Go to, say, ten random pages. On each one pick three random ripple addresses. Check what XRP they've received. I wasn't that thorough, I checked one address from each of three random pages (from roughly the middle of the thread, if I recall) and they had all received the giveaway. And yes, they had all forwarded it to an aggregator account, so they were probably all the same person. :/

Fundamentally, you either need to map what you're giving away to the actual people who receive it or your giveaway will be gamed by scammers. We're definitely not the only people who had to learn that lesson the hard way. I don't believe in those kinds of giveaways anymore -- it makes more sense to use partnership agreements.

I don't have any particular motive here other than to help people understand why we did what we did. The last thing I'd want to do is pump XRP because that will cause short term spikes in price with subsequent drops. That doesn't help us in any way.

btw Spoetnik it looks like you did not receive xrp back then because you posted a wrong address:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145506.msg2909682#msg2909682

r = public Ripple address

I'm not saying everyone received free XRP but yes I'm new, yes I'm a Ripple fanboy, whatever...

I just re-read my last comment and i see an error  :o
The forum that was hacked.. was THIS one !

Oh and i guess we all posted a wrong address huh ?
Yup we all went and handed over our emails etc and hit on create address on the site and then copied it here "wrong"

LOL mmmm hhhhmmm sure LOL  :D

Oh and is there any word on that "partnership" ?
You know the one where you said that is why they unleash more coins randomly with no warning or explanation ? (of course not to jump past LTC in the market cap standings)

Or are you going to insult all our intelligence by claiming it was a coincidence ?
http://coinmarketcap.com/
Kind of a coincidence dropping 333 more million coins on the public moved you Ripple guys from #4 position to #3 position leaping of Litecoin.

And yeah i would be just as insulted if LTC guys did that too.
Only thing is THEY CAN'T  :D

Unfortunately, I don't remember the details any more of why we stopped that giveaway. I'm pretty sure we had very good reason to believe it was gamed, but I don't recall specifically what it was. It could just have been that most of the people receiving the giveaway immediately transferred the XRP to the same aggregator accounts (and they weren't exchanges or anything like that). But honestly, I don't recall.


I didn't look closely, but I did see the link where you posted your secret rather than your address. That would have allowed anyone to steal your XRP. It's an easy mistake to make, but it definitely would have prevented you from receiving the giveaway because the process was automated.

I don't know how many invalid addresses were posted in the thread. It's easy to check. So if you're going to make the statement, you can easily measure. It might be a lot, it might not. I don't know. I never looked. But I'm not making claims about it. Obviously, invalid addresses didn't receive anything. Valid ones did until we ended the giveaway due to evidence that it was gamed.

That evidence is still available today. Survey the addresses pasted and look at where the XRP went. You can see that it went to a small number of accounts that were not exchanges. I think we had other stronger evidence at the time, but I don't recall for sure.

Honestly, I don't personally know for sure. I don't track all of our partnership deals as they happen and since I left the board of directors, I don't normally get the details on those deals unless I have some reason to ask. We generally wind up making the deals public but not their exact terms and we don't announce them before they're complete. Partners almost always insist such things remain confidential until they can do a press release. We announced a few partnerships with exchanges around that time, it could have been one of those, but I'm just speculating. The ledger is public, so you can probably figure it out if you look closely enough. It wouldn't surprise me if someone already knew and likely discussed it on xrpchat.

Again, I don't know the specifics of this incident. But it would be hard for me to imagine it was anything but. Timing a partnership deal is really complicated and access to our XRP reserves requires multiple parties to act in concert and various levels of internal approval.

I agree that it's kind of strange to compare the "market cap" of systems that operate differently. In a sense, you could argue that the full, eventual supply of both LTC and XRP should be used to calculate the market cap since that's all priced in. But that would make the system gameable too -- say only one XRP was on the market, it might have a very high price. Multiplying that by 100,000,000,000 would obviously give a ridiculously large market cap.

At one time, our strategy was basically to do the same thing bitcoin was doing but to take market share from it by being technically superior. But that was a long time ago. We're not pursuing XRP as a retail payment currency. We're not pursuing XRP as an investment for individuals. Our strategy is primarily to promote XRP as a bridge currency for payments.

In other words you don't know but want us to assume it was all legit.

And yeah i looked and my address starts with "ss" so maybe i did fuck up. (that is two errors i will admit to)
That did not change my perception on it though.
I explained how it went down and my posting the wrong address personally does not change the result.

All i see to be blunt is weak excuses handed out long after the fact when criticism is raised.
There is not much room for debate.
A lot of stuff with Ripple is highly sketchy and secretive.
Who ever is behind it seems to do what ever they want and we find out after it happened.

The way it actually works *IS* the problem.
Which has been pointed out by pretty much everyone in crypto endlessly for years.

Feel free to talk about why "..the world needs Ripple"
I was just trying to point out how in my view the world does NOT WANT Ripple.
Far be it for me to dare challenge the assertion of a mighty legit White Paper ROFL

PS:
The words.. "I don't know" are short & sweet and can save you from being raped later people.
Many dev's in Crypto don't get that concept and rail on with long winded speels of bullshit..
which simply digs their hole deeper and deeper.

I don't want you to assume anything. I want you to understand the procedural controls that I know are in place that make your crazy conspiracy theory extremely implausible.

Did you take a look at some random address from the thread and see that they all did receive their XRP? Did you track the accounts and see that most of the XRP went through to aggregators?

I don't recall the details. I think we did know at the time more precisely how it was gamed. But it obviously was gamed, that's why we suspended it. The evidence is still there for anyone who wants to look at.

The problem is that I can't respond to everything at once. And you have so many objections that I need to respond to that there's really no way to get it sorted out. You're not going to believe me on any one thing because you're holding everything else against me.

Please, at least actually check the accounts on the giveaway thread. This is easy to do. You will see they did receive their XRP and it did go to a small number of aggregator accounts. The giveaway was gamed. That's a fact.

All true. That's how companies work. We're a startup. We're trying to make money and maintain competitive advantage. We don't owe anyone any explanation of anything we do, so long as it's legal.

I agree, it's a good idea to say "I don't know" if you don't know. And I will say "I don't remember" if I don't remember. Or if I think I recall something but aren't confident it's accurate, I'll say so. My best guess about the giveaway on this forum was that people were brute forcing passwords for long-dormant accounts with weak passwords. We had a similar problem with another giveaway where the brute force attempts became a DoS on the service and they had to ask us to stop the giveaway to protect their infrastructure.

I agree now that the whole giveaway idea was a mistake and we never should have done any of them. You either need to collect so much personal information that the giveaway can't be gamed or your giveaway will go to criminals and fraudsters. Neither is what anyone should want.

Well this is not about the giveaway per say but i sure as hell recall people saying they got no coins.
I recall no users saying they got some.. NONE !
That is not a "crazy conspiracy" and people know i have a damn good memory.
I would not make the accusation unless i was confident about it.

That fact you sampled random addresses in 2017 on a giveaway from 2013 does not exactly vindicate you Ripple guys.
For all i know you paid out a bunch of them long after the fact.

The way it played out happened like i said it ..i know i was here and watched it go down.
The topic was created and hammered and there was virtually no response or word back and people kept posting for ages with no word on what was going on.

What the result was is..
A whole lot of people going to Ripple.com etc then inputting their email address <-- valuable personal info.
Then creating a password if i recall correctly.. and uhh yeah in crypto that is worth large cash.
You all know how often hackers take the passwords from some pool and try them on exchanges etc.
If you use your password on 2 sites in crypto you will probably get hacked eventually.

You said Joel it was not handled properly.. so don't cry conspiracy later.
It wasn't and the motivations for doing that was obvious.. advertising.
And it was mighty convenient to let everyone keep going to the site to sign up and piss around making accounts and posting keys
..when you guys knew damn well you were not going to pay anyone out.
Anyone with half a brain could see that is in fact what happened.
And yeah that is in fact sleazy ass fucking shit.. not conspiracy.

Bottom Line ? motivations.
Ripple was never released as an open source decentralized currency.
It's a massive swirling vortex of BAD coincidences.
One thing after another that does not quite look right yet there is always some little excuse to brush off the bad shit swirling around it.
I can make a huge list of it and i have here.

What people need to take away from this is i am being told off by an "Employee" of Ripple.
If that doesn't tell you something then uhh.. happy "investing"

..in a company that is NOT transparent or regulated and has been accused of wrong doing by FiNCEN

Nope, I got my XRP without any problems and on time. Many people in that thread did not read the OP: "Anyone whose Bitcoin Forum account was created before February 19, 2013, 18:45 UTC, is eligible to receive XRP."
Your account: "Date Registered: July 18, 2013, 04:03:36 AM"
(in case this confuses you: July 2013 is not "before February 2013")

This is in addition to you posting a private key instead of an address (The address to that secret would be rhhhtVFyFuzbXXsMosxPLfGg9BGFzE19NS - but I STRONGLY encourage you not to use it, since the private key is known).

An address by them (back then OpenCoin, now Ripple Inc.) that was used in the giveaway was "rJR7gjNe3DpJ7kpB4CHBxjDKfwVMpTKPpj". Look it up and check which accounts were paid from there, then search bitcointalk for these addresses or just google them (forum search is a bit limited). This should get you started in researching and getting data on if/how something fishy was going on.

https://github.com/ripple/rippled

About coinmarketcap:
They take their "currency in circulation" data from https://ripple.com/xrp-portal/ (see the pie chart on the right side after scrolling down a bit).
You'll notice that it says "As of January 15th, 2017" at the moment. This means since they they could have sold or bought some, but it'll still take a while until they publish their current holdings again (check out on archive.org how this number evolved). Once they do so, CMC will update their numbers at once, since that's the only and best information they have at the time. This does not mean that XRP got dumped suddenly, it could have been a selloff over many weeks or also it could be them paying their employees in XRP (who might not sell at all for a while). I guess this will not calm you down, but might explain it for others reading your "facts". If you have other questions, feel free to ask them.

One question. How would you solving the centralization? Ripple is an centralized coin. Didn't it?

Their plans are as follows:
https://ripple.com/dev-blog/decentralization-strategy-update/

In short: bring online a few more validators under their control and then turn them off one by one as soon as third party validators fulfill some to be defined criteria to be included on Ripple Labs' UNL.

wow, what is wrong with ripple, so many discussions with a lot of words, seems everyone has a lot to say about that coin, but I do know much about it.

A while back I needed to check an old ripple wallet a while back, they don't even have an official offline wallet.
Okay, there are some 3rd party options, but first thing that came to mind was lol..what a huge shitcoin.

1 year latter, world still needs XRP!