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Have you guys been too www.usdebtclock.org recently? We are fastly approaching the the $20 Trillion in debt mark. 2 questions; will this information make the news and at what point does the dollar actually crash? Its been common knowledge that the dollar has lost 96% of its value since 1919 but what is it at right now 98% maybe 99% value gone? Just wanted to get your take.

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It has a high probability it will hit the news, this is a "milestone". ;)

It will hit the news, but nothing will be getting done about it. It will just hit the news and people will forget about it until 30 trillion dollars is reached, then they'll get it on the news again, they will forget, they will bring it back for 40 trillion dollars... and so on ad infinitum. There is nothing that's going to change. I wonder if the system can work as it is now under any amount of debt. People just seem to not give a fuck about it. Everyone acts as if there will never be any consequences.

It will certain make the news, I could remember it hit $10 trillion, I was watching the countdown to it hit the figure on Frace24. It is a big story and media will cover it

I appreciate the replies. Is there a mathematical point of no return? I am going to google it and see what I can find. Tom

We passed this point a long time ago. And all the sheeple act like nothing has happened.

Exactly, this doesn't mean they're going to do something about it. After a day or so everyone has already forgotten about it. :)

It seems unfair to me. The debt will cross the $20 trillion mark in the next few days. The media will go ballistic and they will dish out headlines such as "US federal debt at $20 trillion under the Trump presidency". No one is going to mention that half of that debt was created by Barack Obama.

The US dollar is not a national currency.The US dollar is a world currency.
That`s why the US government debt is so big.The world wants to buy more and more USD.
The federal reserve system can print any amount without the risk of inflation and there is no need
for the US government to have a balanced budget.

It will but only for like a day..

Dude
Don't blame him for 10 trillion xD
I mean he didn't reduce the debt for sure
but 10 trillion? Seriously? xDDDD

Yes Obama doubled the debt from $10 to $20 trillion, just over the total of every previous president combined.

https://qctpp.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/figure-2-increase-in-federal-debt-by-president1.png

backing up

Ok well my bad I shut up here xD
Impressing. Most impressing in fact is how every president (since JFK) at least doubled the debt in fact!
Like it's some POTUS requirement!

No, I do not think this will make the news, at least from outsing the United States. For a few reasons : that would alarm people for nothing since this changes absolutely nothing, people out of the United States does not care about the debt of the USA, and be frank, talking about the new bakery that just opened is more interesting !

Until it hits a tipping point and international confidence in the USD is lost shifting to the Yuan.

The USA will then be in a world of hurt.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/10/Reserve%20Currency%20Status.png

Nope. The Yuan is even worse. The Chinese are like devaluing it every two weeks or so (to increase their exports). Else, Yuan could have replaced the US Dollar as the world reserve currency ages ago.

Kinda like how you won't mention that the first half was created by Bush and the second half was an economic stimulus that WORKED which is why he was able to cut the budget deficits so much. Now trump is president and his plan, his actual plan that he told everyone, is to drastically increase both the debt and budget deficits. And surely you'll blame Obama for that too.

US Debt at $19,959,943,400,000 wow so big debt omg how so much I cant beleive how somebody can make big debt like that.If Donald Trump dont fix nothing in next 2 years  America will gonna be losted forever but I cant beleive how Donald Trump is American president.In my country everybody is smiling to American citizents which choosed Donald Trump  ;D and they are also happy because most Europe citizents hate America but all newspapers are hiding that.America is not good friend with Europe like Russia with China so because of that we have bad results.America want destroy Europe with immigrants and they waste time on that but they need to fix own economy.I think that American citizents need if Trump dont fix nothing to make country attack and citizents then need to also arrest Soroš because he is destroying a world and he dont do nothing good.

https://www.quora.com/Who-created-more-debt-–-Bush-or-Obama

US Debt clock is my fav :

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

National debt = $166773 per tax payer

Once controversial Donald Trump remains the president it will make the headlines soon because he's bent on tainting the image of his predecessors especially the immediate past Obama administration so I wouldn't be a wee bit surprised if it hit the news any time soon.

Wow that is a very surprising news. If other countries have that huge debt they are already down at this point of time. But the United States of America even with Trillion of Dollars of debt they are still good to go since they dont just own a national currency but a world currency. But this debt is very alarming if taken for granted the US economy may crash.

What day is expected to hit the $20 trillion?

Yes, surely a good new for every bitcoiner as weaker dollars will support alternate investments to get appreciations. We can not be sure that they are still doing good because a bottleneck may occur at any time which might lead a big collapse too.

I am also very keen to find out that. But, this http://www.usdebtclock.org clock is not providing any such information.

It is Congress that is responsible for this debt. The President has little control over it.

I am almost certain that the mass media will poorly deal with the matter of debt unless they want to throw all the blame on president Trump. Essentially, nothing will be happen because none can do anything now. The american dollar has crashed after August 1971, i.e the Nixon Shock. If USA was not the superpower of the world after the collapse of the Soviet Union and if the majority of the debt after the part which have the US citizens and American entities was not in China and Japan the 2nd and 3rd economy in the world, the everyday life in USA is likely that it would have been worse than the default Venezuela and other poor countries all over the world.

Hi Thomas
Debt cant be infinitive,i can say virtual economy cant crash becouse it is only virtual,but we are not virtual,we dont eat virtual food we dont drink virtua water sooner or later it will cause crisis.In fact world is in big crsis and world is on the edge of tragedy,finally it will hit people in devloped countrys,empty slogans will not change it.Westerness world is dieing,

It'll probably be covered by some media outlets, but honestly I don't think Americans will care too much. A mention for Bitcoin might be pertinent, so perhaps we might see a slight increase in price; Bitcoin usually surges during times of uncertainty. Must be tough for US debt to approach $20 trillion with the Trump Administration just being inaugurated into office :p

Very interesting scheme you are sharing with us. My main question now is it if it is possible according to you guys that another currency take the lead ? I doubt about this : yuan is being devaluated hardly, ruble will not be for ideological reasons, euro is not that interesting, pound is dead.

Which is the main reason that united states has this deep debt at $20 trillion? Isn't one of the reason the interest or mostly the bad management of the money. I have read recently how Turkey has paid their duties within a short time and became one of the strongest country in the world being listed in Top15 and Tayyip Erdogan increased the economy of his country, can united states learn something from this?

The size of debt doesn't matter. It's basically impossible to pay and still growing, all because of the crazy high and unjust interest. Iceland did not pay their debt and did anything happen? No.
Cyprus went bankrupt, did something happen? No. What if the debt becomes 10x times the GDP? They can't pay it now and they won't be able to in 10 years.

No. Obama should be blamed because the bank bailouts and Obamacare is responsible for most of this debt. And despite having a Republican majority, until 2012 or so, the Democrats were controlling both the senate and the house, with the help of RINOs such as Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe.

the only thing that i am interested in is the profit of my investments. which are mostly bitcoin, gold and some other things. and in my experience when there is a fear of economical crash, people will run to invest their money in other things and make their price go up. and that is just the start, these things will always have a ripple effect when others will join in and push prices higher.
now the question is what is going to be the most invested commodity?

Who are the people or countries United States is owning this amount of money? $20 Trillion is a humongous amount of money and default in payment will crash the world economy

The maximum interest rate being paid for the US treasury bonds is around 3% (and that too for the 30-year bonds). The Americans are perhaps paying the lowest interest rates for federal debt in the world. So they don't gain anything by defaulting. On the other hand, they can simply sell a few more treasury bonds and use the revenues to pay back the earlier loans.

USA will not default and their economy will not crash, politics just wouldn't allow that. But I don't think they will ever repay that debt either, they are a super power and certain rules just don't apply to them. Have you noticed that someone in USA is seriously worried because of this debt? No.

Nuthin makes the noos inna United States unless it's dressed up inna thong or jist shot up a skool.  Mebbe when that there debt hits 10 QUADRIZILLION then it'll git a little mention.

Yup... this why people say US is the richest and poorest country at the same time. If GDP and job openings keep to increase, no one really cares about debt. It just becomes a number tbh. Maybe one day it'll bite us in the butt, but since the US has so many connections with other countries, other countries would probably end up bailing out the US if it ever came to that.

how reliable is that site?
I dont think US want to pay that at all  ;D

The first part and second part of your post is contradictory to each other. If you don't repay your debt, it is called "default". The United States of America has never defaulted on loan repayments anytime in the recorded history.

Trump already made some crucial moves to strengthen the US economy. He wants to depreciate the dollar and also reduce the dependency on exports for products and services that can be produced and rendered locally. We might see some drastic and controversial changes during his 4 years.

In his mind, the US subsidized and supported other countries and neglected their own country. He might create more jobs this way, and this might reduce debt. That is to say, if the consumers use this extra income to pay the debt, and not to spend more on fast food and cheap consumer goods.

It's not as easy as it seems. Sometimes you want to do something with good intentions and you end up delivering a big mess. Trump thinks reducing chinese impact on the economy is nothing but positives, but in a global market is not as easy.

Unfortunately in this system shitty mass produced crap like what the chinese does... sells very well and its hard to compete. I dont see how he can compete with US produced goods unless he start cutting US workers wages.

If he devalues the currency, then I don't think that it will go well with the creditors. Actually this is a strategy sometimes used by certain less reliable nations to reduce their total debt. First they will sell their debt in the national currency, and a few months later, the currency will undergo devaluation. The creditors will receive a negative ROI as a result of this.

In theory, if the US economy improves and the salaries and wages for the locals increase, people will have enough disposable cash to buy better products. They currently buy cheap Chinese imports, because they cannot afford the better products.

Do not underestimate patriotism in the USA, people will pay $1 extra for something that has been manufactured locally. If imports of these goods are stopped, people will have no other option than buying the goods that are on offer.

Local manufactured goods, increase job opportunities and this puts more money into people's hands.

Gne? What had he done yet?
Oh you mean how he destroyed thousands of jobs in a very immediate way by censuring scientific labs?
Yeah granted it was an immediate and radical change.
Not sure it was for the better though...

Well the only change to expect is an increase in the size of the debt this time, four years because the so called civilization was built on a web of credit and that will never be fully settled. It is not something that is peculiar to America, but rather a global myriad of money creation out of thin air. To the community and the cryptoworld at large, that should be good news as that is actually one of the ills Bitcoin came to address in the first place. Much more persons are going to lose faith in their local currencies and come running to embrace Bitcoin and some altcoins and that would further boost the value of Bitcoin.

If $20 trillion makes any panic among investors then that would be really a nice news for alternate investment opportunities. Gold and bitcoin will start flying from that for sure. But as per past histories, US government is known for bailing out themselves by simply printing the required amount of new currencies. So, personally I do not expect any big impact out of it.

I own aproximatelly 168k to people I don't know  :-\
It really seems akward if you see it this way lol

If there is a tariff on the Chinese goods, then either the people will purchase more American made goods, or they will continue to buy the Chinese goods (at an increased price). In both the cases, the US treasury is going to gain.

Globalization made Chinese a manufacturing powerhouse they are today. USA is to blame here, they wanted to to have the cheapest possible products and as result their economy is suffering today and debt is skyrocketing.
Trump is totally right, America needs to restore their local factories, businesses and industry first. Then try to halt debt progression, and maybe they will manage to slowly regress it then.

I agree with you that US has been Big brothers to many counties at the expense of her own citizen but this is the work of the Globalist but I think reducing imported goods is going to make Dollar stronger.

The thing to effectively resolve all that is to get the cost of production cheaper and I don't see the possibility of that. China parades cheap labour as well as cheaper electricity and then a devalued Yuan, all that culminates in  making their exports quite attractive. Besides the best way to make indigenous companies more efficient is not by protecting them from external competitors, but by getting them to be more competitive.

We have already crossed $20 trillion dollar mark and the markets have not reacted yet:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

It's ridiculous. No matter how high it goes, markets don't react to the insane debt, this means that it's going to explode all of a sudden, so let's see what happens during Trumps firs term.

Edit: Somehow we are back at $19.6 trillion

Yep. I don't see any way Americans could make the cost of production cheaper than the Chinese.
Can't even imagine them working for the same wages that Chinese labor do.  :o

How could the locals compete with the cheap imports? Quality isn't enough. Bank on the buyer's patriotism? Also not enough.

Like how all the trump supporters bought chinese/asian made "make america great again" cappies for 10$ instead of the american made one for 30$ on/for his inauguration day.

Right now, the debt is not exerting much pressure on the American economy. This is mainly due to two factors. First, the interest paid on this debt is very low, ranging from 0.7% to 3.0%. And secondly, a large part of the debt is owned by the American citizens and corporations.

It will hit the news but the problem is no reaction is going to take place and I think this is because people have been hearing about this astronomical number for some time and nothing has happen that they have been conditioned to think the amount of debt does not matter, until it does, of course.

China doesnt need USA USA need China.Trump is destroying reletionship with latin america countrys,instead of usa cars there will produce chinise volvo. Build bridges instead walls.Trump can enter USA in isolation,prices will ncrease and can be high infation.Importent is that USA is Russia enemy nr 1.Make Russia great again,main Russia target is to rebuild USSR,thay are very succesfoul ,agreement between Turkey ,Iran Russa  has been signed
And initial military agreement between China and Russia.All his antiabortion  and torturing talks,calling EU nations to exit EU etc.Sorry but nobody will see USA like responsible patner
It doesnt looks good to me

There is not going to be any impact, the vicious circle would simply continue because the hell of global financial system was designed to create debts that would never be paid off. As a matter of fact, printing money from thin air have always been the name of the game, money backed by nothingness - where would the money to repay it be coming from? Not too long, it would be $30 trillion because Trump is just about to turn America into an island with far more enemies than he met.

Donald Trump had a very good idea to remove the federal debt. Before he was considering his presidential candidacy, he once said that a one time 14.25% wealth tax on the super-rich would wipe-out the federal debt.

http://edition.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/11/09/trump.rich/index.html?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

But then I really doubt whether he would consider such a step now.  ;D

debt ~50000$ per citizen, your kids born with a debt without doing anything
good job usa

When this thread was created, US debt was sitting at $19,959,943,400,000.

As of right now, regarding the famous usdebtclock website, we are at $19,967,475,400,00

The thread was created in the 25th of january, now it's 29th... which means debt has increased around 8 billion in 4 days!

We'll be at 20 trillion for sure next month. This is just insane. The collapse cannot be dodged, it's like 2008 all over again.

Here is a good article to read on 24hgold
Post series: The myth of the strong dollar policy, Part Two
http://www.24hgold.com/english/news-gold-silver-post-series-the-myth-of-the-strong-dollar-policy-part-two.aspx?article=10288186376H11690&redirect=false&contributor=Michael+J.+Kosares

Whenever a U.S. secretary of Treasury utters the word “strong dollar policy,” the question immediately should be asked: “Strong against what?” As outlined in the Wikipedia definition immediately above, the intent of the policy is to make the dollar strong in terms of other currencies, not against goods and services, and for that reason, it is generally misunderstood.

That's what you get for invading third world nations without any reason. The Iraq invasion alone has created a net debt of $5,000 per head for American citizens. Control your horses... or watch your debt burden zoom to even further.

Great debt for a superpower country is usual and not an issue if we study carefully economics. We know that US has a huge debt and they are also aware to it but even though they have a huge debt, there is nothing to worry because it is just a debt and US has a lot of time to paid it because it is not necessarily to paid it on bulk because the collateral is whole country and world bank can't get it, The only choice is just to wait to be paid. And even though america will be flooded by huge debt, it will still america and nothing will gonna change, the only disadvantage is just a huge debt will be always attached to their name.

It is usual, but in the US, the debt is even higher than the GDP. Check this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Government_debt_gdp.jpg/550px-Government_debt_gdp.jpg

The debt has grown even as the GDP has remained constant. This is not good for the economy in the long term.

I looked again at the date and that was Tuesday November, 1999, very close to being two decades afterwards!  Laudable as that sounds, but why have we heard nothing in that regards after all these years and even in the run up for his election?  One thing just called to my mind - is it the same 1% of Americans who controls 90% of the wealth of the country, who refused to back Obamacare that would now gladly part with 14.25% levy on their net worth for the sake of 99% of Americans?  Would make a very interesting movie and can't wait to see how it all works out (if ever) especially now that Trump is the number 1 citizen.

The Federal reserve alone is a great movie to watch.

Not only these owners control the Fed but by extension, they control the United States ....

Has been making the news for decades, though between 2001-present the amount of national debt has hit a disgusting rate of increase per year in the United States.

Going to have to say that I hope Trump, and the rest of the politicians in Washington D.C. are going to address the issue of this and not just keep spending more money then they can, cause if you're house is filled with shit would you make the ceiling higher or remove the shit?

The maths is fairly simple in its conclusion yes.

Ive been saying 20 trillion for some time as the actual numbers far exceed that by many measures, such as including pension liabilities.   Those pensions in turn are invested mostly in US debt which will make their losses double when debt unwinds in its present high valuations.

The entire federal income tax take will be spent on maintaining US debt interest payments if base interest rates rise to 10%.   If you are young you might think this is a very high figure but its quite feasible though we could settle for as low as 5% longer term and still the US government would stumble and falter with such a burden on its budget.

Is it already too much, certainly in any normal scenario.   However US debt is a proxy for the world economy so you have the golden child effect where no wrong can be seen.   The world can in theory keep paying off US debt and hold it forever without requesting the value back, but its really an unhealthy situation to say the least.
As a singular country barring the reserve currency effect, its gone way too far to pay off this debt without great upset.  Controlled default is most feasible and orderly, hardly an example but Greece was a bargained default scenario

Those are indeed telling and from it, we can also induct that the same "Private Company" is also in charge of many countries across the globe that obviously are appendages of America! That would also confirm that the age long held view, that the wealth of the world is being held by less than 1% of the population. The questions begging for answer are, what was the sharing formula? How come they are having so much whereas many have none?

It is something that will make the media talk about but the news won't last. Because the debt will still increase overtime. Majority of the countries even the develop ones have debt that is normal because that is how a country can progress. It won't really matter for educated persons when they see that kind of debt in the television

Then you have all those private banksters around the FED making all those big claims, like Jamie Damon telling people that they have to get used to a worse life. This is the same idiot that is saying bitcoin will never work and will die anytime a government tries to ban it. Those banksters need to get put to jail immediately if not something worse. I cant all those fucking elitist cunts. They need to be beaten the fuck out.

A huge tax like that to the wealth of the super rich is never going to happen, but prepare for the possibility of that tax applying to the middle class and if that does not pass, then prepare for hyperinflation and see how the governments steal your wealth with the printing press.

Rich people will not pay any USA debt,usually thay dont want pay anything,taxes etc.Example can be new US Treusury secratair,he has forgot to say that he has 100mln $ on offshore acounts.Look France when Holland asked wealthy people to pay 80% of his taxes thay simply have move away from France.In a case of Trump it is just empty talk. By my opinion there is not possible to rise debt in to infinity,2008 e had crisis caused by debt,who did pay for it ordinary taxpayers and poor countries,more debt was created more virtual money appear,rates went near zero or below zero.But now in Germany inflation jumped to 4 years highthat will be in all over Europe same will be in USA that can turn in to hyperinfation,my opinion it is out of control and sooner or later that bubble will blow.It will never make the news becouse nobody knows to solve

The bankers are supposed to be the least on productivity table, because they add little or no production in creating wealth, except deceits with creation of credits, but unfortunate they are the ones eating very fat from the society, whereas the ones that toil their lives out most often eat crumbs. I have heard it said on many occasions that life isn't fair and this instance comes very handy.

make america great again... $20T yo

It is even worst since at that time the debt of the countries was a lot lower now countries indebted themselves like hell, and we are not out of the crisis, so the next crisis promises to be the big one since it does not seem anyone has any weapons left to stop it.

According to the CNN opinion poll, a majority of the American HNWs (high net worth individuals) supported the Democrat candidate during the POTUS 2016 elections. This includes oligarchs such as Sergey Brin, Larry Page, Tim Cook, Mark Zuckerberg.etc, who are solidly anti-Trump. Trump will enjoy taxing these folks.

This is not possible in effect without great destruction to industry, its a misunderstanding if anything.   If they instigated a killing fields scenario where people above a certain wealth were killed off and their value captured for government means, you would still be losing the effective use of free capital in wider industry not to mention any human value.    I assume violence because the money evade capture and most value is not stored in cash but in Cyprus they did a 'haircut' on savings so maybe Im exaggerating but I think its destructive anyway and Cyprus hasnt gone onto strengths from it

 The main loss would be lack of investment in future, it cant be understated how highly USA is regarded now in its debt worthiness.
Its become unjustified as US dollar is a proxy for world trade done.   Of course its ridiculous to be talking about seizing wealth as a way of restoring a nations fiscal problems but also it has been tried and failed many times, in case anyone forgot communism at least in as a military dictatorship did not produce prosperity.  It led to mass starvation, many programs of seizing wealth did not help countries.  Tax rates over 90% have been used in western countries, such as UK and USA in the past.  
Either the tax rate was avoided by various schemes and bargains or simply the wealth left the country and operated outside it.

The realistic outcome is default or inflation.   Politics prefers inflation and sees the stable erosion of capital as a fair tax and its also a way of seizing savings, pensioners especially suffer if not working or tied to working capital.   Default would mean strong dollar possibly and a bad reputation for future government borrowing, however business might prosper still and so the tax income allows government to continue to operate.
   The possibility Trump is going to negotiate all this seems so unlikely, bad debt absolutely will matter to USA staying as a super power and there is precedent for transition and bargaining of power by large nations being based around financial weakness.   Start exporting, run a fiscal surplus and possibly thats a real strong dollar not just a supported one

HNWIs love trump. Alone the corporate tax reduction saves them 280 billion $.
Not to talk about the other tax reductions.

Trump himself is a billionaire. It wouldnt wonder me if he would govern the US as berlusconi did in Italy.
Ursury and corruption is not far - ah wait he stepped down from being CEO of the trump buisnesses; his kids are managing it now... ::)

Like trump berlusconi used the msm to his advantage.
(Berlusconi bought the msm, trump the alt-right media)

This is correct but while it gives the impression of being a fair tax it is not, the rich can just move their money to tangible assets like houses, land, gold, silver, bitcoin, the poor did not have much to begin with, the ones that lose a lot by inflating the currency is the middle class and not only they lose their savings but most of the time their jobs as well.

Now we can easily buy bitcoin and store them and move them around as we please. For the first time in history we have an hedge against the collapsing system to operate with as average joes. Like you said, before bitcoin, the only people allowed too do that were the elite. Now we all can escape the system.

The rich won't change their asset classification, they will just move. It is very easy to get foreign citizenship these days.
If you have deep pockets, it will be processed very quickly too.

That is an option too, but if dollar is hyper inflating and you have most of your savings in it then you need to move your money, also I want to say that if there is a wealth tax you could avoid it with what you say, but you must know there are laws that could make getting around such a tax more difficult.

I will really want to know the composition of the debt with that I can know whether to castigate the ruling class or not. If the money is borrowed for the betterment of the country then I am good which I doubt though. USA to my understanding is fond of throwing money around in forms of aid in other to still maintain control of world politics in which the money could even come from debt. I think they really need to look for ways to reduce that and maybe the 4th generation can finish paying that debt...

the Social Security Trust Fund is the most cause of the usa debt, it is a fund used for retirement money. And the fed is simply monetizing the debt. FED purchases Treasurys from its member banks using credit created with air. Also china and japon both own something like 2 trillions dollars together, they are the largest foreign holders.

I don't know what is going to happen, because no one has attempted it before. The haircut in Cyprus went ahead smoothly, and apart from a few genuine individuals who saved money in their bank accounts, it was mostly the ex-USSR oligarchs who lost the money. This will go a bit further, by seizing not just a part of the money in the savings accounts, but also other forms of wealth such as real estate and bullion.

I can really see a huffpost article saying how we hit $20 trillion under a Trump presidency, and how it wouldn't happen under Clinton.
Would make for great memes.

Honestly think that military spending is where the United States needs to cut back. Reallocate funds back to STEM, and in a decade USA could be paying off this debt. Trump's focus on bringing a couple thousand jobs of manufacturing is only sustainable as long as the government subsidizes it. We should focus on preparing/initiating the fourth revolution, which is probably the only thing to spur enough economic growth to pay off this debt, besides another World War.

Right now, the federal debt stands at $19.976 trillion. My guess is that it will cross the $20 trillion mark by next month. What you had posted above is going to happen for real. The MSM will go ballistic over this.

If I may
Thinking that high taxation is the ennemy of future investments is wrong.
Basically, currently the rich owns the capital, they make it grow by exploiting the work of the population through investments, and then invest back again.
What's the problem here? The problem is that as the rich are the ones owning the capital, they can decide HOW and at which conditions they will invest it back.

It gives a tremendous power to only a few people.
Huge taxation is the only way to swing this state of power.
Or at least the only way I know.

That and start really taxing its companies...
But here USA is just like the whole world.
There isn't a single fucking country actually taxing its big companies...

All big companies leave and stay in tax havens. Look at google, they have been in Ireland not paying barely any taxes compared to what they would have paid in US or Europe. There is just no way to stop this, they will keep doing it. Meanwhile the common citizen is trapped in his country paying big amounts of taxes making shti amounts of money. There is just no winning as an on rich man.

The problem with taxing the big multinational companies is that, if you tax them too much then they will run away to some other country where the tax rate is low. A lot of jobs and tax revenue will be lost.

False
If you tax big companies they can't really run because they can sell their products only in your developed countries.
You can always tax on their sales.

It's not that easy. Let's see what Trump does about it. I want to see him pushing Google and other big multinationals but chances are he will not be able to do anything, the billionaire multinational companies always find a way to win.

Here's the debt count as of this morning: 19,924,079,093,933....wait, where did you get your number!?!?

The real question is that since the US and all governments can make money to fund their expenses if debt dries up, what's the real need to pay this off? The pay off is passed down to citizens who have to live with a weaker and weaker currency due to inflation, no?

I love the bitcoin alternative for this reason!

how they can run away so easily in another country to avoid big tax? they would pay a very big amount to move to another location just to avoid a % of tax, i don't think it's worth it, the government need to control more tax evasion from politician and big istitution if they want to get rid of that debt,, this is my opinion

Well yeah duh, the compound effects a business can bring far outweigh the benefits you gain from taxing them. If a company leaves that's xxx amount of workers out of jobs. That's xxx amount of money not flowing in the economy in local businesses, etc. Being a business-friendly country is a very smart move, and is a huge reason why Dubai and South Korea are countries of concentrated wealth IMO.

Howany bitcoins of debt do they have? Oh wait, you don't need debt when you're your own bank. I guess after the USD collapses they'll look into bitcoins.

Yes, you're right about the military it's a good point. Specially when we see the results. Don't know if thoses stats were right, but once i saw that 25% of the homeless people in USA are veterans :o
I don't think the Trump presidency will be enough long to complete his goals. Bringing a couple thousand jobs of manufacturing is a thing but i don't think big companies would be ready to decrase their margins, they will prefer incrasing the prices of theirs products. All what matter to them is profits, profits and again profits

Definitely! it will make some news headlines but things will be as usual. The entire cycle keeps going until it crashes. GOD alone knows when this will blow up into a financial disaster. I think everybody knows that debt will keep accumulating and there is nothing much left to do anything about it.

It will never be on the headlines and the US government will just cover up those details to hide in the public. The united States of America will not allow those news into the mass media as it will reflect to them negatively. But their debt on trillions will continue to grow and they will just print more dollars to  hide the real situation of their country.

And it was the JFK that wanted to issue the greenbacks. I guess he knew that the debt the america had is no longer sustainable and as we see it is even less sustainable now.

I think that graph is slightly misleading, as the cumulative effect of the last president's policies on debt is rolled onto the next president. And things seem sustainable, no one is really freaking out about the amount of debt that we have, and it seems to most people it's just a number. I imagine if government continues to provide the services and functions as it has in the past, the average American citizen won't care all too much.

That may be true in the case of GHW Bush and GW Bush. But Obama was responsible for almost all of the debt created during his term, in the form of his Obamacare scam and the Wall Street bailout.

If the united states economy collapses, it won't only affect america, the entire world economy will be brought down.

The deficit is very important.

It makes me happy to see many are concerned with it.

A marked and improved contrast to only a few years ago when everyone was convinced the deficit was irrelevent.

You can not particularly worry about the economy of the United States of America. Their debt is measured in dollars that they themselves draw. Is that what America is a big problem to hold inflation to pay off the debts?

Yes.. that is the problem. The global markets are dependent upon the American markets (NYSE / NASDAQ). Almost every single bank in the world is interlinked to the American banks. Even the forex rates for the other fiat currencies and even Bitcoin are based on the United States Dollar. It is the world's reserve currency and the only widely acceptable currency for international trade.

Well the dollar on this way it already crashed and if it crashed this year again it will be a big loss to the U.S

yeah but look at the other currency they are in a bad position too, if the dollar crash but the other giant crash too nothing really change, the USA know this and they can still maintain the supremacy


can they keep this game where they continue to pay their debts by creating other debts while their inflation remain constant? their inflation last time i checked was even lower, this is absurd for me

When did the Dollar crashed last time? Honestly, I can't remember. On the other hand, right now it is the other (fiat) currencies, which are losing their value against the United States Dollar. Look at the Euro, it has lost almost 32% of its value against the USD during the last four years. And Euro is not an isolated example. Look at the Great Britain Pound (UKP). It has lost 38% of its value against the USD since 2014.

The Soviet Union was not destroyed by war or military action.

The Soviet Union was destroyed by outstanding debt and economic mismanagement.

Rome also was destroyed by debt, expensive foreign wars and similar problems.

There are lessons in the history of these things americans could learn from.

Or they could choose not to learn and have history repeat itself.

I agree that the Soviet Union was destroyed by outstanding debt and economic mismanagement. But how did the USSR managed to pile up all this debt? There is one main reason - WAR. The war in Afghanistan was extremely expensive, both in economic and human terms for the Soviet Union. Also, the USSR wasted a lot of money in trying to prop up other communist nations, such as Cuba and Vietnam.

How do all monopolies stack up massive power which eventually ends up converted in debt? Through war cycles... there are no exceptions.

US benefits from war cycles too, everyone does, the problem is when you are on the wrong side.

Unfortunately humans haven't evolved enough to be able to be safe from those war cycles.

^^^^^ War is a big business now and big corporations make enormous amount of profit out of it. The Iraqi invasion cost the American tax payers close to $2 trillion. Only a small fraction of that was paid to the soldiers. So where the remaining went?

Looks like Donald Trump managed to reduce the deficit by $12 billion as of 2/21/2017.

At some points in february he reduced the US deficit by $61 billion.

http://i66.tinypic.com/73c5eq.jpg

Maybe there is hope after all.