Bitcoin Forum

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

Taxing who is taxing the altcoins the government has no control in these altcoins and I am not aware that there are ongoing taxation in the altcoin industry I also want to know the percentage,so I can use it as guide in my trading.

Theres no tax is being implemented on either bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. Government is not in control on any transactions being made on blockchain because it decentralize. Maybe you are reffering to fees if you are going to exchange you monero to bitcoin. Well, thats depends on exchange fees. Some exchange are charging low fees and some are not. You should go here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=223.0

Taxes?How could altcoin do have taxes even bitcoin doesnt have?Well if you are trading or buying monero then it suddenly increase its price and you convert it to bitcoin then you are just trading it to make profits and i dont see any taxations on those transaction i do only know about exchange fee but it isnt a tax.

Bitcoin can't be taxed same with the alts. It's not literally taxable at your side but you are facing the fees of the said exchange that you performed your transactions. Yes a modified fees on their own and can considered as taxable in another form. It varies per exchange.

For much clearer view, you can head to the specific exchange and study their fees.

i don't know how to calculate tax on altcoins and then sold with bitcoin. i think its different from one exchanges with other exchanges. the fee they applied is related with the volume average of all coins, but i don't know what is the calculation.

Yes, there is no tax on bitcoins or the altcoins. All of them are tax free. I think OP is referring to the trading fee which most of the exchange deducts when we trade the coins. It is not a tax but a detection for performing the transactions on their exchanges.

Paying tax on bitcoin and other altcoin will undermine it's value as a currency. Bitcoin is a currency and at such we have to see as so. Currency or money is what we use for exchange of goods and services and determine it's values'. If bitcoin and other altcoin is treated as property it means it's values as money has been undermined, if we pay tax on cryptocurrencies like gold, silver and oils' it means bitcoin has been treated as goods.

If you're talking about the trading fees and all of it depends on the exchange agreement. If the question is refer into the institutional tax and there is no tax for your money, dude. It's simple.

Taxes. Crypto.

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Foolish!

I believe he is talking about tax, I know someone paying tax on his Altcoins and BTC trade income, I don't know how he did his calculation, but the reason he gave is that his brother once had problem with government and he does not want to pass through that ordeal himself

you need to consult a professional my friend, any suggestion here may be worse than doing nothing for you.

but as far as i can tell you, i believe you report taxes on the profit you make from trading and if you calculate it after some time not each trade. so for example you make 20% and lose 10% and make 5% then you report total of 15% profit and pay taxes on that.

but also at the same time i think in countries like US they consider bitcoin a commodity so maybe having bitcoin may be subjected to taxes. again as i said consult a professional lawyer or something.

I just wanna know, where did you get the information that in every transaction that you wanna make in the altcoin there is tax charge? If you  know the definition of Bitcoin it is decentralized, which is referring that no one is controlling bitcoin nor even the government, companies, or any businesses in the world.

Nobody/No any government is taxing on bitcoin or altcoin trading so i don't think there is any need to calculate tax for altcoin.  ;)

That's not true. Governments are taxing profit on bitcoin and bitcoin trading.

in taxing only bitcoin and only few country is regulated about tax
japan is tax all bitcoin exchanger site to convert yen japan

if altcoin is nothing is tax, nothing regulation nothing tax

What you told is correct the country which has implemented the tax then the bitcoin users have to show the transaction in tax law, even if you are trading in altcoin but in that bitcoin is the source of income so this trades will also come under tax law if in that country have tax law on cryptocurrency

This is the best suggestion here in my opinion,  even if altcoin is not taxed, you still need to declare your profit to the government. Especially if your government is very strict when it comes to tax implementation.

This would depend on a certain individual if he would declare or not regarding on its income but i dont think this would be implemented on alts.For bitcoin it would possible but for alts i dont think soo.Theres no tax on this but only fees anytime you convert your alts to bitcoins.

In general it's hard to tax crypto currencies and I think if the government will really pursue there plans, they will surely be having a hard time to do it. The decentralized system is the main reason why it's not tax, and the persistent of the people to use this system to mask their personal info.

One can only be tax if we will declare our real information which I don't see will happen with bitcoin and altcoins.

If the taxation can be implemented into bitcoin and gaining its success, then why it's can't be implemented to another altcoins which have the same system? i think that it's depend on the government on how they put their effort into the taxation of cryptocurrencies and finally could cover the whole cryptocurrencies into taxation which many people and i honestly don't like.

The best advice, consulting a professional is the safest thing to do.  Especially after the whole Coinbase debacle, at some point it will come back to bite you especially in the US.  As far as I have seen it is the profit you need to pay tax on.

Let us wait until Bitcoin is being taxed, then we can see altcoin will follow.  As of now it is safe to say that altcoin cannot be taxed because of the scenario that government are having difficulty on imposing tax to Bitcoin.  But if OP is willing to give a tax to the governmne with his profit on altcoins, no one is stopping him to do so.  As suggested by pooya87 it would be better to seek the advice of the tax professionals.

i think still there is no tax on bitcoin, not a single country country has imposed tax on bitcoin. but i think if any government will start imposing tax on bitcoin then other countries will also thing about it to turn bitcoin as legal currency and put tax on it, and i think then the other crypto currency would also be applicable for tax.

There is no chance to tax the alts. Who could ever control that, there are so many altcoins and the new ones are appearing all the times. And I don't see the point in this, governments would achieve nothing with this.
Like with Bitcoin, only profit made of it could be taxed but the coins itself no.

Yes, not just with altcoins even with bitcoin there will be no possibility of taxation until we are voluntarily accepting about our holding.

Because there will be a lot of possibilities to encash both altcoins and bitcoins anonymously using in person trades. So authorities will be having very less chances to track our cryptocurrency holdings.

But when you are using bank accounts for cashing out certainly you need to pay taxes.

I think if the government target an exchange, and impose a tax on every conversion, they can be  easily taxed though the government can not track and implement taxes on people who are converting thru p2p.  As a matter of fact if we look at the scenario as a whole, it is very difficult to tax all transactions regarding bitcoin and more difficult on altcoin.

I never know that there is already happening a tax deduction in some of the altcoins. I think that is not good, because is a digital currency that is decentralized, and I know majority of the altcoins too are also decentralized due to they clone bitcoin. where even the banks or the government cannot control it. So for me taxation in the alts are a good idea.

yes that is right to say that  the taxation of other alt-coin concern with bitcoin. if the government will consider bitcoin ias legal currency and when they will impose tax on bitcoin, i think the way for other alt coins will also clear to turn them as legal currency and  then also impose tax on them. but still it requires a lot of time and it will also depend on the position of alt coin.

Maybe you are referring to transaction tax, it depends on your country.
I am not really aware how much it could be. But, if you were referring to taxing your income it depends in your countries tax formula. But, since bitcoin is not yet regulated/control by almost all country I think you don't need to declare it.

what the hell is with all these people claiming it's tax free? get real.

it'll depend on your jurisdiction. in most places it'll be capital gains and technically in most places that's only payable when you sell an asset into fiat. there's no way i'd bother reporting a huge alt gain even more so if it stays in bitcoin.

since you can't spend monero anywhere then you have to convert it into bitcoin and then sell that bitcoin. that's where your tax is liable.

Too bad you live in a country where they taxed bitcoin, I have the liberty to maximize my income in bitcoin or altcoins because in our country it is tax free and the government are still the process of making a law to eventually tax bitcoin. But I guess it would take long as bitcoin is not that big in our country, so the need is not that urgent.

That will be called as transaction fees rather than "Tax". And Yes I do agree that there is a little extra fee for those transactions but it will be profitable if you are wise enough to invest in a good altcoin.

you can actually spend monero on the darkweb, this should make it not tax free, but since monero is anonymous, the government will have an hard time finding anything about your TX

because fo this they will not even bother, but for huge money movement in the altscene, some force might investigate privately, one never know, who i tracking you if you are doing serious with money

Miss spell here, well the fees is depends on the exchange service charge the transaction, usually it's not expensive you just to manage the profit, your current price - transaction fees = your profit. Exchange to fiat is same. No you don't need to pay tax, unless your country have been legalize bitcoin and asked for tax.
AFAIK monero is the one option to mixing the transaction, the government will hard to find it.

Incredible how many people here are sure that there is no tax on bitcoin in no country ?!

Of course in most countries you have to pay taxes for your bitcoin profits.
Only the kind of taxation varies. In some countries you pay tax for capital gains. In other countries like germany you add your profits to your income and pay normal income taxes.
And of course this is also true for Altcoins, although it is very very difficult, do keep track on thousands of trades and handle the bitcoin/altcoin stuff.

But just because it is incredible difficult, also for authorites (or if p2p it is impossible for authorities), it does not mean that there is no taxation.

Just google for bitcoin taxation.
Eg. https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Taxes-101/Tax-Tips-for-Bitcoin-and-Virtual-Currency/INF29402.html

nope. it's capital gains. you're paying tax on your declared profits just the same as stocks, property etc.



well, i for one wouldn't bother declaring an alt gain while it remains in crypto. you don't really have money, you just have a higher abstract number than before. you haven't realised the profits yet.

Yes, it is a real pain. That's why I do not trade altcoins much.
And I think the whole taxation from goverments is at the moment like "We don't know much about it, but we want to get taxes, so make it -that- way", while this way is just too difficult, even for tax authorities.  So it is quite unlikley that you will be charged for undeclared small profits. But if you are making big profits with altcoins, it might be the best to ask a professional person....
And yes, I also hate this...

(Assuming you are in the US)
In that scenario you have a taxable capitol gain of 10%. Your tax on that gain could be as low as 0% or as high as maybe 20%. But 10% is a good guess. Note that the tax only applies to the gain and not the principal and is triggered by selling or spending the coin (any kind of coin).

It's hard to imagine taxation in crypto not unless it's non-online. The best scenario here is the government will impose tax on those sites just like taxing registered establishments. That means all your transactions online were taxed already. 

Cryptocurrencies are more like a private and non financial assets, governments consider them as online toys more of a private club thing.
Only bitcoin is a serious matter for them, no government can expect taxes from people not using any national resources, you need to understand why are they taking money as taxes first and see if being involved in crypto could be considered tax-worthy or not? are they providing you with their services while you are doing trades in crypto? if yes then they have the rights to charge taxes.

Government are obliging people to pay taxes for whatever they earn as that is their responsibility and they will do that to something that is in their control, since bitcoin or altcoins is not in their control due to decentralization, they cannot tax it. However, because of the fact that we convert our crypto currencies to fiat, it's easy for them to tax us.

It depends on the country you lived, usually it count from how much you earned, but the percentage of the tax is different in every country, and for now in my country if you exchange alt coin or bitcoin there is still no rules that stated need to pay tax for digital currencies

It is the duty of one individual to pay taxes, it is up to you since bitcoin is not yet regulated by law. Let us just be thankful that our country did not banned bitcoin until now, that they see bitcoin as one of investments and opportunity for people and  in the country.
But, I am wondering if do we already have international tax for bitcoin?

i don't know if altcoin have a tax after we doing trading but i think there is no taxation for altcoins or bitcoin since many of government didn't make any comment about bitcoin. so if there is any country that have taxation for altcoins or bitcoin, then its should be from their regulation for use commodity and they considering that altcoins is like commidity but i am not sure about this.

yes no doubt that different countries have different strategies about taxation but i do not think that still a single country has put tax on bitcoin income, i think the main reason can be that still government have not yet turn bitcoin legal. or may be they have yet not make any strategy to impost tax on bitcoin, but one thing is clear that if government will put tax on bitcoin, then bitcoin will become more stronger than its previous position.

I think what's do you mean with taxes is fees trading altcoins
because there are not taxes for altcoins and bitcoin,
you can check on the markets where you trading altcoins
every markets apply different fees trading.

I never heard about taxes on bitcoin or altcoin transactions yet but if you are trying to convert bitcoins to fiat then, in that case, you may need to pay service taxes if the exchange is asking for it and I can speak about my jurisdiction (India) where I have pay 15% tax on transaction fee if I am using Unicoin (it is not applicable while trading on localbitcoins).

Service charges and service taxes are two different matters.

Have a look on this fee structure for better understandings

Unocoin FEE STRUCTURE (https://www.unocoin.com/post/92).

I dont think there's tax on the bitcoin and altcoins. But if you're saying in trading taxation of altcoins, I beleivs thats the fees. Every transactions transfer of altcoins from exchange to exchange also has a fees. I guess this is what youre trying to say.

In the first place, I just wanna know where did you get the information that there is ongoing taxation happening in the altcoins industry,because so far I never heard to any news update in cryptonews that there is taxation in the altcoins. and moreover, we are decentralized digital currency.

because there's profit involved. wherever there is profit then you're gonna get taxed. it's up to you to declare it just like anything else. buying and selling for profit usually attracts tax.

i really hope some of the people here get their shit together if bitcoin explodes because this is how the world works. the judge who's about to strip you of everything isn't gonna be moved by 'but, it's on the internet so i don't think i should pay any tax.'

in fact currently there is no tax on bitcoin and alt coin. i think some government may thinking about to put tax on bitcoin  because if they will impose tax on bitcoin that can collect a huge amount of money as income tax. but i think they have some limitations that stopping them to impost tax on bitcoin. i think first they need to declare bitcoin as legal currency and only then they can put tax on it.

You are free with the buying and selling of your bitcoins and altcoins because there is no any tax on these crypto currencies and maybe in the future impose it but before they will legalize it for the state while now you only need to pay the fes of selling and buying on the exchanges and that fees varies on different exchanges some have high fees while some have lower fees.

but i think that still there is no tax on bitcoin anywhere in the world. government may be thinking about imposing tax on bitcoin but have to regularize bitcoin fix and and i think the government have some limitation about that they want to have control over bitcoin and bitcoin is design where it is mot possible to control it or manage by any country.

yes that is right that every country has their own ration for tax but i think still most of the countries have not yet impost tax on alt coins even on bitcoin. may be in future some countries may have planing to put tax on bitcoin and other alt coins, but currently there is no tax on bitcoin and any other alt coin. i think it will be a good decision both for bitcoin and governments if they put tax on bitcoin and other alt coins.

As of this moment, I never heard tax is being implemented in some altcoins in bitcoin or cryptoworld. Tax for now is being use in any altcoin that what I know about it. because because most of the altcoins are same with bitcoin in terms of being anonymous, and being decentralized too. it means none of the any company nor the government cannot control it.

The government has no control in bitcoin as well as the altcoins that's why there is no tax going on between them. If you're

referring to the fees it depnds on which exchange site you will use. There's still some speculations around the forum that the

government might put a tax on them in the future. But this will be difficult because as I have said they have no control about it so

the exchange sitea that are based on their country that trades cryptocurrenies will probably the ones going to be affected .

they don't need control in order to put taxes on your trades. they don't have control on all the currencies in the Forex market and they have no control over the stocks in the stocks market but they are taking taxes on your trades and the profit you are making from trading these things.

the same thing can easily be true about bitcoin or altcoin versus fiat trading. but bitcoin versus altcoin trading can be a bit tricky but it can still be taxed in some ways.

i always say when it comes to taxes and the legality of what you are doing it is best not to make assumptions and consult a professional.

Nope.
At least in the USA, all profits are taxable. This is a fact and has been for many decades. Fail to pay capitol gains and you will be fined, could be jailed, plus you still owe the tax and interest. It is not up to the exchange to pay your taxes. It is up to you.

Why would you bother yourself when government that is saddled with the responsibility of collecting taxes has not asked to come and pay tax and even if the government of your country has asked you to pay tax then you shouldnt bother yourself so much about the technicalities because they will know how to do the computation and if you are not ok with it, you can ask for how they arrive at that amount if your tax liability...

Yes,I do agreed on this matter. That's why the government of each nation can't control it because of the decentralization of bitcoin has. so that there is no any taxes nor even in the crypto or altcoins. But I knew majority of the government are really planning to give any tax once they approve to become legalize the virtual currencies. But that's not I think will going to be happen.

yes government cannot impose tax on anything which is not yet consider as legal, and they can only put tax on such items which are legal in a country.

yes that is right, and i think government must be thinking about how to legalize bitcoin because they can get such a good amount from bitcoin if they will impose tax on bitcoin  so they will now try to legalize bitcoin.

and i think there is also so much pressure on government from the people side. and so we can hope that they will consider bitcoin as legal currency. and they will also give support to bitcoin.

Right now, bitcoin is still not regulated because people still don’t use it to make huge incomes, but I am pretty sure when the bitcoin prices reaches something like $2000 or more taxes will become a thing since people will start making a ton of money from it, but trading it with small amounts is always a solution.

No even at that time there will be no any tax on bitcoin or any altcoin because till the time when government approve bitcoin or any altcoin as a currency they cannot impose any type of tax on them.

i also agree with you that if the governments will consider bitcoin as legal currency then they can get a lot of tax from it. as then they will become able to put tax on alt coin also.

I believe most governments don't know much about Bitcoin, and much less about Alt Coins. Probably they would start taxing Bitcoins only, so the Bitcoin enthusiasts would start using alt coins trying to cheat the government decision, it could give us some time until the government discover again about the "trick" and start taxing it also.

This would be the end of the dream of using Crypto Currencies... Anyway, until Bitcoin becomes a real threat to government there is a lot of time, we are safe for now.

Because of just how many new altcoins and slight variations that they make it's very hard for governments to make people declare their earnings in altcoins if they trade them directly to fiat.  Generally though I would trade back into Bitcoin and then that into fiat as it's more convenient and you can (usually, remembering Mt. Gox) trust that your Bitcoin is pretty safe being only briefly held in the exchanges.

I don't think it would be hard for the government to tax altcoins, in the end we all exchange our altcoins into fiat in order to spend it.
The government will regulate exchange sites whether we like it or not and since they are regulated we have to comply with the laws and regulation
in order to use their service. That way we have to comply with the KYC and the moment the government can make a comprehensive law, we will
know if we are obliged to pay or not based on the rules.

Implementing taxation rules on each exchanges isnt really hard at all if government would decide to impose taxes and the owners of exchanges doesnt have any choice but to obey the rules because this is part of the regulation.Taxation on alts would be possible but implementing it would really takes time.

I think there is nothing like the tax to make deals in the bitcoin or altcoin . This is the quality of the bitcoin that have no tax and no more charge to use it by own .
But here if you will make study throughly about this then you will found that there is like a system that can force you to pay tax to the government .
Here I am saying that if you will make direct deal with your bank money to bitcoin at exchange then the bank or government laws will be applicable upon your bulk transaction and in that case you need to pay tax .
But if you will make small deals within range of 10-1000$ then I don't think that you need to pay anything like the tax .

Of course you absolutely owe taxes on alt-coins. Don't let the fools here convince you otherwise and risk your profits.
So I'll assume your in the U.S.  In that case you owe capitol gains on the profits you made. It looks like your gain was 10%. If you paid $1 for your alt (I'm using $1 to keep it simple) and your alt rose to $1.10, then you owe a percentage of that $0.10 profit.
The rate (percentage you owe) varies depending on your tax bracket. It could be 0% or sometimes as high as 15%. But 10% is normal. In this example you owe $0.01 to the government.

If you failed to pay you could be charged penalties, late fees, interest on the penny, and may face jail time; and you still owe the penny. That's not likely for a penny, but there is absolutely no question of taxation on alts or any money you make.

Yes i guess the topic i pointing on the fees we experience when we used blockchain in trasaction. But for me its not a big issue regarding on fees on bitcoin because at the first place bitcoin do not have tax in the government so we do not pay something out of our money in regards on bitcoin. Fees is just like tax it would help the community of bitcoin to upgrade or to improve the way of transaction on bitcoin. And in fact the fee is much more low value than taxes so its not bad. And if you are having trouble on fees i suggest to use a backup wallet so you can have transaction without any fees.

I don’t know who told you that fees goes to community improvements or upgrade, but they are utterly wrong because fees goes to the greedy miners who keep on asking for more and more each time the price changes, I would actually consider them like taxes and the government here are the miners because not only they take taxes they also control how fast the transaction goes so it is like a bribe the more you give them the faster your transaction goes.

I am still surprised how we haven’t made a riot over this this has been going on forever and they are just still keep on going, if we don’t do anything about this eventually thing will become more serious and this is starting to drive people away.

Sure, it is an asset and you can be charged for it, but that doesn't change that it's pretty easy to avoid and tax.  You're only charged taxes because your earnings are in it, but you can always take them out somewhere for cash or go through some basic methods and avoid taxes without "evading" them.

To avoid being tax is like you are laundering your money for your favor, it is not good because if there is a law that really requires you to pay taxes you will have to follow it if you do not want your money will be compromise in the future. Though it's anonymous but it can be easily trace if the government will do actions to strictly impose it, remember that the government has all the power to do that.

If you own a stock - say Apple - and it goes up 10% in a fiscal year, you do not owe taxes on that appreciation UNTIL you "realize the profit" buy selling it for fiat. Likewise, when you sell your bitcoin for fiat it is considered realizing a profit and loss and is taxable. However, selling one alt for another or for bitcoin is not "realizing profits." Those are still property assets. When you sell your alt for fiat or convert your alt to bitcoin and then sell for fiat then you are "realizing" profits and have to pay taxes.

This is called a like-kind exchange:

"A like-kind exchange under United States tax law, also known as a 1031 exchange, is a transaction or series of transactions that allows for the disposal of an asset and the acquisition of another replacement asset without generating a current tax liability from the sale of the first asset. A like-kind exchange can involve the exchange of one business for another business, one real estate investment property for another real estate investment property, livestock for qualifying livestock, and exchanges of other qualifying assets. Like-kind exchanges have been characterized as tax breaks or "tax loopholes."[1]"