Bitcoin Forum

Unless an Altcoin is created to accommodate an extended power outage then none of these coins can be considered an improvement over Bitcoin.

If it is not an improvement over Bitcoin then it is not innovative.
Having Bitcoin and every Altcoin reliant on Electricity and an always on Internet connection is a design flaw.
Eventually we will have a major extended power loss and loss of the internet.
When this happens your coins are worthless.

It is not a matter of if ..it is WHEN !

I have been warning you all of this since 2013 lots.
Fix your shit guys.

Eventually the world will end due to heat death of the universe.
We need an Altcoin that survives when the universe reaches thermodynamic equilibrium. That will be a true innovation over Bitcoin.

What about Feathercoin?

Is having no transaction fees like IOTA not innovative?

I think is unfair to the developers in the space, Factom and Ethereum stand out for me, both are offering what Bitcoin does not offer at the moment and so many projects will come up soon that will only make Bitcoin outdated if the scaling issue is not resolved soon

Its so unfortunate that from the abundance of developers that we have now, none has been able to beat the feat bitcoin has achieved but I am sure if something of that nature is done, people will definitely support. What will see today is people who are not even passionate about what they are developing only few even provides the necessary support among other deficiencies we witnessed today... Hopefully this can be sorted out in the near future...

if there is a power outage then Bitcoin and all the other coins will survive, as long there is someone with the blockchain synced until the power outage started and some people with mining capacities, when electricity is back

Iota is also quantum proof.

The currency will fail.

They say FIAT would go down too.. 90% of it is all digital these days.

People if you want to parade around grandiose terms like "Innovation" then learn what the words means.
The reality is a more digital version of FIAT is not innovative.
It creates larger problems then we had to begin with.. a step in reverse.

I don't have to have the answers to point out the glaring problem either.
That would be the dev's problem who declare they are "Entitled" to be paid here.

An innovative currency would have a contingency plan set up.. there isn't any with crypto coins.  :o

People will be scrounging up what ever paper money they can find in an extended power outage.
Crypto coins then will be worthless.
And they will still use FIAT assuming short term it will still be accepted..
And also assuming that if the power comes back on in months or a year Fiat will be used again.

FAILURE:
The digital currencies will not work with out power and the internet.
Saying they can be revived later if the power comes back is not the point.

That is like saying hey our new coin is secure.. and if you get your coins stolen you can get more later  :D

You all really do have some piss poor logic.

This is my conspiracy.. i am the fist person to mention it and remind you of it endlessly.
I am the knower and haver of all things seen & known in crypto now and forever !

Supreme Emperor of FUD and leader of the divine council of "Operation Shitcoin Cleanup"
Champion of crypto-wisdom and task force leader for the Crypto-SS

I can run a Laptop or 2 off of Solar Panels and keep a Proof of Stake network Running.  ;D
Could also make up a network using Radio antennas or Ham Radios.
http://superuser.com/questions/836512/internet-over-antenna-tv-system

But I am assuming you are talking about a big one.

No electricity , No Internet , all electronics Fried by EMP in like a whole country.

Personally think Survival is going to take president , but what the hey , I know how.

Get out the old Pen & Paper & write Legally Binding Promissory Notes for the Amount of Crypto to be Paid once the Power comes Back On.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promissory_note
 

Anyone that does not pay , will be legally bound and face legal penalties if they don't paid you when the coin network is back online.

Next Question?  ;)

 8)

It's also a manipulated self enrichment scheme from the same nxt crew who pulled that stunt last time.

Last I heard they were trying to sell their 150 sats tokens for 3000 -5000 sats. Jokers.

@Kiklo
You are playing the exception card.
You may be able to do that but the overwhelming majority will not be able to.

Keeping laptops powered up with Solar power would be difficult too.
You would obviously need power before other things than a computer.
Then you would suck a lot of it up powering your machine all the time and MINING  ?

And who is your solar powered WIFI router connecting to when everyone's power is cut off ?

Did you think it through ? ;)

Hey i wish things were different but we face a serious issue.
And if we were smart we would make plans ahead of time.. instead of doing literally nothing at all.

The price will be determined by market. If the coin is crap it will have low price, if the coin tech is great the price will be high.

Feathercoin has no innovation either, it's not even anonymous, what innovation it has over bitcoin really? the only innovative coin for me was the one that was very anonymous like monero zcash zcoin and all the other, another good example is XCN with miniblockchain, they should come up with something better than POS but still less energy consuming than POW, but that can also remain decentralized and not enriching the rich

IOTA is THE most innovative coin to come out since bitcoin. Fully scalable DAG, becomes faster the more people use it, and no transaction fees

So the innovation needs to not be reliant on electricity and internet......

Come on that is a pretty silly statement and you are smart enough to know it.

yeah i have an idea...

1st.   lets make solar powered altcoin wallet, which can run using solar power, battery and can connect to internet using various means like  gps, wifi, 3g, 4g, bluetooth and network cable. this item would also has uplink and downlink to satellite either build in or separate hardware that is powered by battery-solar-wind power.

2nd. lets all altcoin development unite and work together to build and launch altcoin satellite so if even if  internet was gone we can still use the coin.


or maybe Dash can provide the funding if we can find legitimate dev for it
 8)

EDIT : considering that cheap android phone already run on battery and it already has multiple wallet option on it, we can just focus on uplink and downlink hardware(and server) to connect android phone to  satellite

In the long run, we're all dead.  I suppose you could look at it that way, but it's sort of nihilistic.

Spoetnik, I agree with you and the market agrees with you.  These shitcoins are out of control.  Who buys them?  Bitcoin is what it is, and it serves a purpose, but the rest of these stink bombs are just that.  They need to be dumpstered.  No transaction fees?  Eh.  Bitcoin isn't that bad, and it's not going to end up getting used as a currency anyway.

Spoetnik is a guy so monumentally full of shit that I even unignored him because I was kinda missing those shitposts.

That made me smile ear to ear.. funny  :D

Well i brought up 1 specific issue at first here but it is a larger topic.

Do i know my assertion is absurd ? yes i do ;)
But as you can all see from the guys Solar Powered wallets idea.
That THERE may be in fact something we could do to dramatically improve the situation (of having no power for months)
We need to try though !

Who would have thought Bitcoin was coming way back ?
The idea of having a block-chain was genius no ?
So to me this Altcoin stuff should be about ..innovation. (over Bitcoin)

So i don't see any.
Maybe ANON features ..but i am convinced they are a bad innovation. (a key distinction)
They are screwed when it comes to adoption matters i think.
I have harped on that enough ;)

I am more interested in losing power for a few months.
What will our coin scene be like ?
Is it wrong to look at this matter ?

Will coin prices be decimated on Exchanges ? Will they come back ?
What will happen with various coins ?
Such as a standard coin like BTC or similar ?
Sounds like fork central to me  :D

I just hoped to bring up an interesting topic.
The users hoping to make money off this stuff seem to have a rather WIDE definition of the word "Innovation"
I deem it to be something that improves on Bitcoin.
For example.. is STEEM a blogging platform thingy an improvement or.. just different ?

The only thing i ever hoped to accomplish here is to get people thinking.
If no one replied here i would have failed :(

Anyway so what do you think it would be like if North America lost power for a few months ?
The entire coin scene would simply resume and pick up where it left off later with no issues ?
Is there something we can all do ahead of time ?

I envision a new currency that people claim will make FIAT obsolete to be able to be used even with out power.
The fact FIAT is reliant on power and the web and satellites etc is a major problem as well.
I think we have a few scenarios too.. a few days or a few months (longer than that society will be damaged pretty bad)

NOTE:
South Korea and Germany are the two companies who make those giant power transformers.
North America has no replacements.
They need to be sent on boats and loaded onto special flat bed rail cars on trains.
They are VERY expensive.
If enough of them were fried out from a CME across North America do NOT hold your breath waiting for them to get fixed any time soon.

We are talking about the possible collapse of civilization and the transfer to a possible barter economy.
How does Crypto fit into this ? Any ideas people ?

You guys replying here ARE the front line.
It could be one of you here & now that has a revolutionary idea that is used globally.

PPS:
in 2012 a major one passed Earth's orbit 2 weeks afterwards.. we were ALMOST nailed hard (again)

I don't know about currency innovation

but I do know exchange innovation

https://lykke.com/Whitepaper_LykkeExchange.pdf

https://i.reddituploads.com/d1eb5d7a49894c8286872c267eae5b8e?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=06c168647ff92f948caae9ec91ae89ce

https://thenextweb.com/voice/2015/02/25/real-innovation-is-about-solving-problems-not-having-ideas/

But we need ideas for solving our problems.

I kinda agree with it.

At least spoetnik is the realistic person.   ::)

Banks would not be able to move "money" as well, so there's not much point in this thread, because the whole world will be screwed, not only Bitcoin or just some altcoin. :)

ICO ? Ends justify the means ?

The initial distribution of the coins is what this is all about.
You can not leap frog over that tantamount aspect and rail on about other stuff.

Is an ICO an innovation over Bitcoin's distrib method ? I sure as hell don't think so  :D

There seems to be no way in hell to get though to you all here.
You WANT to legitimize shit so you just push on.. so you can make profits off.. <insert coin name>
that once again was probably released unfairly with some ICO crap.
Round & round we go.

That is fine & dandy but guess what profiteers ?

EARTH GOVE 0 FUCKS

..they are not coming to buy your ICO coin bags ..EVER !

I don't think you can blame anyone for selling his token at X20 the initial price, once there is a buyer at that price. Can you blame someone that bought BTC @ 50 cent not to sell at $1000. Don't be hypocrite

Iota will go straight to the top 5 on release. Considering all this alien technology that will be coming out soon,  knowing it's quantum proof will certainly make the holders of it sleep better at night

real innovation require money...   no money === no real innovation.
thats as simple as that.

back to topic...   the power requirement is quite simple we have solar power and full node can easily be run on battery if necessary.  

however the internet part is quite difficult because it require a vast amount of money.  the downlink-uplink dish to connect with satellite cost at least 16k usd (http://www.groundcontrol.com/flyaway-mobile.htm).  
then  you will need satellite, which either launch your own for at least about 300M each or use existing internet provider and hopefully there will be cheaper alternative such as http://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-satellite-program-brings-global-internet-access-2015-9?IR=T&r=US&IR=T

other cheaper alternative exist as
ballon  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon)
wok-network http://www.informationweek.com/a-$10-wok-replaces-a-$20000-satellite-dish/d/d-id/1052433?  (http://www.informationweek.com/a-$10-wok-replaces-a-$20000-satellite-dish/d/d-id/1052433?)
  
but those alternatives are limited to smaller scale, you still need the satellite to cover the whole world and for  that you need money.

My debit card doesn't work without electricity and a network either. My bank is closed during power failures as well.

@noobtrader
Ok Shelby LOL

And comparing IOTA to Bitcoin ? uhhmmm yeah, NO.  :D

@shyliar
Your assertion that FIAT is bad too is not a good defense.
Fiat can still be used by all the people who scrounge up paper money during an outage.
This was portrayed that way in a TV show i seen recently too.
Power is lost.. people in their homes all pool their cash together dumping it on their kitchen tables etc.
In a few month period users WILL still value FIAT.
MOST will expect power to come back eventually.

Who will care about Altcoins ?

Guys it's a bad defense claiming FIAT or Bitcoin is a *little* bad too in defense of a shitcoin that is far FAAAR worse.

For one thing the comparison is utterly irrelevant.
WHY do people make Altcoins ?
To me.. it has one purpose.. improve on Bitcoin.

So to me it would not matter if FIAT or BTC has some issues currently.
What matters is if the Altcoins are improving over those two currencies.
Does Monero solved problems ? How about Doge or Ethereum or Steem or BlockNET ?

Do you all SEE the problem.. yet ?

But then how could a crypto operate without electricity? The internet is way bigger than bitcoin and it is also dependent on electricity and we keep using the internet because it is useful and the same can be said about cars which are dependent of gasoline and many other things as well.

Users will only value fiat , only if they know someone is still taking it.
Example: In India the 500 and 1,000 rupee bills are now worthless.
https://fsrn.org/2016/11/cash-panic-in-india-after-government-declares-500-and-1000-rupee-bills-worthless-by-years-end/


Your power loss scenario needs better clarification.

1. EMP that takes out the entire world's electronics.
    Only Barter will have value

2. EMP that takes out the US only.
   A. People can still escape to a country with electricity
       (Only Gold & Silver & Commodities will have value, that can be traded into that other nation currencies.)
       (So Altcoins can be exchanged for that Country with electricity's currency (Provided you printed out your Private Key on Paper) , say the Peso)
        (US Dollars would be worthless with no government to back them up.)
        (Alts would hold their Value Better than US Fiat, especially considering many of the alts would be lost in such a scenario, decreasing supply and increasing price.)

    B. People are trapped in that country with no trade between countries.
        Only Barter will have value

3.  Power loss from a hurricane or flood.
     Less than a Month with the ability to travel within 2 or 3 weeks.
     Fiat still works , People that have generators can run PoS coin networks, PoS is still running on PCs not in the power loss area.
     Internet companies have Batteries on their lines so internet continues to work and move generators around to recharge those batteries.
     (Their batteries last anywhere from 3 to 7 days before a generator is needed to recharge them.)  :)
     (If the PoS coin has a Android Wallet, they can charge their cell phone with their Car Charger or generator and use the android wallet to transfer money to
       the Vendor's Android Wallet.)
    
 8)


FYI:
I get what you really want and here it is,
You want the Coin Supporters to Exchange Physical Tokens before the power failure that can be directly exchanged for said coin, to be used in case of emergency.
Basically someone to act as a bank with said crypto and keep stored the amount of coins , that are being physically traded.
(Another advantage of this is the physical token transactions would be entirely Offchain and truly anonymous.

Believe it or not I have been looking into that.
Problems with it so far is that
I.   Stopping it from being counterfeit, problem with all Physical tokens
II.  In the US , it is illegal to do so.
III. This can't happen unless the coin already has a Global Acceptance from the countries it would be exchangeable in .

FYI2:
To be Honest if scenerio 1 or 2b happens the Death Toll will be so high, no one is going to care about Fiat or Crypto ,
only thing that will matter is Clean Water / Food / Shelter , basic survival .
It will be long after our life times before things return to what we would consider normal.

there are lots of innovations!
there are new ways to make a shitcoin look like a legit coin,
new ways to scam people out of their money,
new ways of pumping the coin,
new ways of premining, ICO, controlling all the supply yourself as a dev whale,.... and they find newer ways each day.
the most recent one which was big is the marketcap manipulation that i keep saying and coins like ETH do (huge supply, control all the coins, price goes up, marketcap grows, rank goes up, hype goes up, price rises, dump and become a millionaire overnight ;D)

we could lunch a cube sat, and keep the chain going in space

You comparison is null and void.

How do you compare BTC pow model with a tiny flash in the pan ICO?

Distribution is everything. Make a valid comparison.

Go read my iota threads. Then come back if you care to argue your point. Do some research before spouting more nonsense.

Typical type 2 ico manipulated self enrichment scheme.

comparing it to btc - be serious.

the problem cube-sat has a very limited service duration (month) and area coverage. so you will need alot of them to cover the whole world and you also need to send  them in such short interval to replace failing out of orbit cube-sat.

In last ressort, there is always this :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers :)

How dare you ? I am the twisted wacko that posts insane bullshit around here !

You are horning in on my game  >:(

It took me years to get the market cornered and all these Investards accustomed to my special brand of FUD !
Now you come along struttin' around like a fucking peacock show boating your derangement ?

THIS WILL NOT STAND !

Not on my watch bucko.. gonna have to keep my on you  >:(

The market for fud is very large, you cant fill the whole demand for internet fud on your own, you are going to burn out :)

hmm you may be right..

I actually had thought of farming some of it out.. maybe to an Indian call center crew.

They can show up here saying,
Hello my friend.. I have some special FUD for you.. (in their accent)

But premium FUD is an art !

You should never settle for 2nd rate inferior cut rate / no name brand dollar store brand FUD !
Ask for the real deal !
Demand ONLY the best !

There may be a large market but there is a limit for extraordinary top-shelf premium FUD !

And burn-out ? I don't think so.
A true high class purveyor of FUD does it with little effort.
They are born with it .. a special gift !

I woke up one day and i was literally typing out Monero FUD in my sleep !
I don't even need to be awake to post FUD.. hell i might even be asleep now  :o

But why the FUD you ask ?
Simple.. so called alleged "innovation"  ::)
These Investards insult my intelligence with claims of innovation all the time.
This offends my beliefs !

..they spread those goal posts so wide you could shove a planet through them !

Hence this topic..

PS:
You can tell a pro by the signs.. a worn out blank rolleyes.jpeg button ;)

Last real innovation is multitasking and virtual memory in the 90, since then nothing really new under the sun, just rehashing and re packaging of same stuff over and over again under different brand and shape until people understand they are being sold the same thing over and over again as being innovative :p

It's always the Steve Jobs myth of the guy who Mount millions dollar company out of his basement, it surely looks like the investor holy grail :p

As rumi said, there is fake gold because there is true gold :p

Im trying to quit fud, but I still have relapses from time to times :p

Im working also on light weight core in C, and I agree the way bitcore is coded make innovation very slow and hard to do , and it seriously limit innovation potential, especially for non expert in c++ programming :)

Not only bitcoin,most of fiat transactions today performed using electricity and internet.So,if we think from your point of view, every thing belonging to recent innovations would face loss.There is no need to get scared.

have you check out tezos already?

that's innovation

Just want to point out "innovation" is not re-writing Bitcoin in an alternative language.

That is called "different" not "innovative" ..such as Pascal.  ::)

Either you invent a new and better system than a Block-Chain or you are modding Satoshi's work.

And get this morons.. THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT !
All you tard's flopped your scammy greedy bitch tits on your back and your brain ceased to function at Block-Chain.

You all have NO vision and no plans and no innovation.
Who is working on a better innovative solution compared to block-chains ?
And how do you innovate when you stay stagnant copy catting the same concept over & over ?

I know.. it's a marvelous little buzzword.
And oh boy does it rake in the cash from foolish profiteers who don't have the faintest clue what innovation actually is.
But come on, gimme a bloody break with the incessant cries of innovation from you all.

If i make a god damn toilet paper cozy to sit on the back of the toilet do i then get to prance around here like a limp-wristed shit talking little two bit greedy clown chanting Toilet paper innovation ?

Gimme a fucking break with AltcoinFaggotry guys  ::)

ROI'z Company ? INNOVATION ! IPO ? WHITE Paaaaaaaaaaaaaper  :o

PS:
NO LAWS FREE MARKET DECENTRALIZATION STICK IT TO THE MAN AML HAND YOUR ID TO POLONIEX and COINBASE