Bitcoin Forum

Community,

 

I’ve recently been sent a link by a guy who was considering setting up a tumbler service for BTC but wanted my opinion on the validity of the information that he saw in the link, which could impact his business model.  I didn’t do much to help the guys confidence as I’ve already heard similar information coming down the pipe elsewhere – Norway and Sweden are already pushing legislation to consider services and nodes that facilitate coin-mixing to be treated as a form of money laundering.  This seems to be potentially influenced from the Quatar conference on money laundering (listed relevant key points below).

 

My question is this.  If this legislation is coming down the pipe, potentially in many nations, could this mean that a Dash Masternode which facilitates coin mixing also becomes illegal (in any nation using the Quatar conference recommendations as a template for AML legislation)?

 

If the majority of nations determine Dash Masternodes to be illegal (“should not continue to be tolerated”) then Dash would either have to:

a)  Follow extensive KYL/AML proceedures at each point in the process of transaction, giving the appearance (if not the substance) of privacy or,
b)  Dispose of the ability to conduct coinjoin mixing operations altogether and drop the “privacy focussed” moniker,
c)  Move Masternodes to those nations that do not consider Masternodes as facilitating laundering, leading to centralisation (and a greater point of weakness
 

I’ve seen that Amanda B has been asked on YouTube what the answer might be regarding the legality of Masternodes and private transactions, but so far they are only at the stage of liaising with legal representation to investigate the issue under current US law.

 

My concern is genuine because I have a modest investment in Dash and I feel that given potential new AML laws coming over the horizon, the Masternode structure could be a point of potential weakness (to legal attack).  If DASH drops privacy from their transactions and follows AML/KYC more strongly in the future then I feel that a large advantage of DASH over other forms of electronic payment will have been removed.

 

Investigate for yourselves, any genuine, knowledgeable or well though-out responses would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

---

 

Global conference on countering money laundering and digital currencies in Doha, Qatar. The event was organised by the Working Group on Virtual Currencies, a joint initiative of the Basel Institute on Governance, Europol and Interpol, and funded by the authorities of Qatar.

 

At the end of the Conference, the following recommendations were agreed:

 

“All countries are advised to regulate Digital Currencies Exchangers and Wallet Providers under their current Anti Money Laundering and Counter Terrorism Financing Legislation in line with the obligations already pending on the Financial Sector”

 

“All countries are advised to take action against Digital Currencies Mixers/Tumblers. Such services are designed exclusively to anonymize transactions and to make it impossible for Law Enforcement Agencies to detect and trace suspicious transactions. The existence of such companies should not continue to be tolerated”

 

https://www.baselgovernance.org/news/global-conference-countering-money-laundering-and-digital-currencies

Hi,

This is an interesting issue indeed. I suggest you to post in the DASH main forum, because bitcointalk (and even more the announcement section) can be messy sometimes and your post can remain unnoticed.

https://www.dash.org/forum/topic/general-discussion.2

best,

edit.- a mod moved the thread from "Announcements (Altcoins)" to "Discussion".

stay away from Dash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrKU0Ymta-U

Moving ahead of issues like this Dash requested a full legal analysis by Marco Santori from Cooley LLP, one of the leading attorneys on the space.

This research has been completed and a new legal section will be added to our website soon with information. What i can advance is masternode operators are not liable for the transactions they relay or the PrivateSend feature under US law.

Edit: You can follow updates to this here https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/legal-research-marco-santori-cooley-llp.12691/

with regards to The Netherlands law / Possibly EU law :

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/dutch-tax-authority-clarifies-bitcoin-mixing-will-not-be-banned-will-raise-suspicion/



And that is just about Bitcoin mixing / centralized Bitcoin mixers, nothing about Dash and its masternode network which provide full nodes, forms an integral decentralized system
and also provide other services then just mixing (for example it provides InstantSend, it validate blockchain blocks, it validate blockchain transactions and it enables a functioning peer-to-peer system).

Dash is a ponzi paying guaranteed 8% returns. I encourage all idiots to invest and lose their money. Evan deserves the money of idiots.

Do I still have to tell you you're fucking retarded or did you notice yourself after you read your own quote?

Ponzi schemes "guarantee" profit all the time... until it doesnt happen and the scheme falls apart like Dash will.  It is purely paid pumpers selling to greater fools. It's a scheme you fools.

Prove it's a Ponzi.

While you're at it: Prove Bitcoin is not a Ponzi.

I am going to answer this once in case you are just confused about how Dash works and not actually trolling. The Masternode rewards are not fix, all masternodes share 45% of the block rewards, just like all miners share 45% of the block rewards. Thus  as more masternodes  join the network the rewards go down.

Some masternode operators sell their nodes and some new buy. So basically the free market determines the balance and the risk/ return node operators want to take.

yep, and due to Dash yearly 7% cut on block rewards, the masternodes (45% of blockreward), miners (45% of blockreward) and its decentralized budget system (10% of blockreward) will receive less and less Dash over time.  
Those good old times when we got like a yearly 14% interest from running a masternode are long gone.. sighh  :(

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0

The instamine was an error and most of those coins were sold off by the miners early on since the original XCoin project was an experiment that not many took very seriously to hold and invest. Also the duration of the instamine was not that severe. A real example of a crooked instamine is Bytecoin

sold by miners who don't know what Evan and co. plans... Evan plans to make masternodes out of Xcoins even before launching Xcoin, and he kept it secretly and deceptively hidden from the public for 1 month after the release of Xcoin.


it's not about the duration, it's about the quantity of coins that were instamined that matters..and then changing the block reward from 84M to 21M and make the loot more valuable.

Anyone that is using the old (and increasingly boring) instamine/fastmine history of Dash in a thread like this
is clearly trying to steer this thread into an off topic course.

To OP : i'm sorry to see that such an interesting topic like this one can appearently not be properly discussed by everyone. 

What if i will say to you that DASH for now not good for anonimity for now? Their new anonime system which says that anonimity is nor mandatory for all (you are able don't mix your coins in your wallet) sucks against Monero and Zcash.

* Dash will never stop offering optional privacy .. period. Dash is and always will be a privacy-focussed cryptocurrency.
* Dash privacy has never been broken and is as good as Monero and Zcash, Dash just does it differently.
* Dash Evolution will bring different type of accounts for different kind of users. There will be a private account that will automatically and almost instantly mix your funds.
* AML/KYC rules are intended for the FIAT gateways (USD->Dash & EUR>Dash), not for cryptocurrencies itself.
* Dash Masternodes do not hold any funds (no FIAT & no Dash), they are servers that just function as full nodes and perform services for the network.


 

Not even half of the total Dash that can ever be mined has been mined yet. 1.9 million coins were instamined out of just under 7 million now, and 16 or 18 million is the final circulation amount in the end. That instamine was very fast but it was not a death blow in quantity of the total circulation.

The fact that an instamine happened sucks, but it has been mitigated and right now the coin has taken many steps to improve and stand out which is why it has value and once Evolution comes you will wish you was holding some to trade at least

wow, you speak as if DASH is purely a POW coin..Masternodes get coins too, if 1.9 million coins were instamined, how many coins will that 1.9 million generate as masternodes?

DASH is a fork of bitcoin no matter how much it evolve and re-evolve it won't be that good. there is a saying "The fruit doesn't fall very far away from the tree"

I've said this already many times, and I will repeat it here.  Crypto currencies are an anarchist concept, simply because their basis is trustlessness, which is incompatible with central authority (which imposes that one trusts it).

If one wants to comply to central authority (that is, law and state), then crypto currencies are a waste of effort, because all the hassle of trying to establish trustless consensus (proof of work, distributedness, no single point of failure, openness, ....) is not needed, as a central authority can take on all these functions without the slightest problem (and actually has already such a system in place).

And if one wants a trustless distributed system, then this will of course be incompatible with whatever legislation that a central authority will impose.  Every centralized entity working in such a system will be a point of failure.  We see this with centralized exchanges in China, and you will see that with centralized tumblers, masternodes, whatever, in crypto land.  In other words, you can only hope to use a trustless decentralized system away and hidden from law and state ; or it will just become a centralized tool that will comply and ressemble the centralized systems that states have already put in place, but with a handicap: all the (needless) hassle of wanting to be trustless and hence distributed in that case.

As such, the only crypto currencies that make any sense in the long term, are anonymous, dark-market style, totally distributed systems, that do not betray (or try not to betray) their (evidently illegal) users and supporters.  All others will have centralized points of failure, and/or become "compliant", and hence useless and wasteful as compared to the centralized systems that are already put in place by authorities.

Bitcoin and a few other transparent ledgers are probably going the "compliant" way, to be just as integrated, traced, manipulated and "big banked" as the classical systems ; for the others, who would want to keep the distributed trustlessness alive, only the underground is possible.  In the mean time, you can Ponzi a lot, and if you do it right, you can get out a lot of wealth from the belief of others.

That's bad for DASH. users which need privacy will use Monero or blackbytes or something other (maybe Zcash in some cases)
No it isn't. If you don't understand this, it's your problem. I explain: where do you find better anonimity? In chain where all customers mix their coins or in chain where only little part of customers mix them?

Try to hit two rabbits - bad idea, believe to me

So now is 7 millions DASH 1.9 millions were stolen instantly. so 7-1.9= 5.1 millions.  45% of this 5.1 millions were given to master nods in last 3 years so  2.3 million.   1.9+2.3=4.2 million DASH now have this instamine scammers or more then 80%. And they got them for sort of free. costed them day of electricity.

RIP Dash.  Sooner or later people will wake up, but probably after Even and Amanda B Johnscammer dumped on all you poor souls.

is there any update on dutch law regarding masternodes

FYI

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/legal-research-marco-santori-cooley-llp.12691

https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/display/DOC/How+the+Law+Applies+to+DASH#HowtheLawAppliestoDASH-CanMasternodeOperatorsbeCriminallyLiablefortheTransactionsTheyRelay?

https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=105746151

thank you aleix for your quick answer although it only aplies to dash en us law can we asume this will genereally be applied to all masternodes owners if so its imo important to research the other coins with masternodes if their system for masternode is the same  i for one would still be intrested what version the Netherlands will come up with if there are existing laws a link would be very welcome

i already made a post about it in the duch section i will mention your links in this post aleix

Clash Of Passive Income Cryptocurrency: Cajutel ICO vs Dash Masternode

Dash is a famous coin in cryptocurrency. In addition, from 2016, its price grows from $3 to $ 664, more than 200 times. Many people know Dash in very early phase, but do not buy or hold, just missed the chance.
Now, One has the option to invest in Dash Masternode which Becoming part of the ‘infrastructure’ of a particular coin. You help secure the network & in return, you get some coins , On the Other Hand The option to invest in Cajutel ICO and became part of the ‘Infrastructure’ of a real world 4G LTE telecom. Telecom a largest growing sector your Investment speculated on worth of telecom asset and dividend as per EBITDA.
Cajutel and Dash Masternode has emerged as one of the best Passive Income crypto currencies in the crypto space and the battle between these coins is heating up. Both Cajutel and Dash Masternode were designed with the purpose of helping people across the globe and to make the best Investment and earning opportunity for Investors, but both use different methods to achieve this task. Lets understand the strategies of Dash and Cajutel.

CAJUTEL -:

High-speed Internet provider, Cajutel based on the Real-World Project for resolving real world Problem, Cajutel has grasped the Blockchain and ICO procedure of raising capital, in other to open up open doors for venture to small investors. This has turned out to be important because of the current trouble in getting colossal investors and financial speculators to grasp the undertaking utilizing existing conventional procedures.
Cajutel ICO is not the same as most other token sales because in Cajutel’s case, company shares are exchanged for cryptocurrencies. Unlike other ICOs where tokens bought by investors exist afterwards as independent entities in the cryptocurrencies marketplace, Cajutel’s tokens are tied directly to the project as shares.
This infers that investors are offered the opportunity for long haul Investment benefits, as obtaining such shares naturally qualifies an Investor as a shareholder of the organization.
The company pays out 60% of the EBITA as dividend, then the earnings per share in year 4: would be 13$, in year 5: 16$, in year 6: 23$. So someone buying a token in the beginning would earn in 6 years 52$. Depending on in which phase he invests, this can be a increase of value of 1.86x up to 5.31x. The interesting is the following years as you can expect dividends far above the 20$ per share, every year as the capital expenditure to build up new infrastructure drastically decreases. Besides the dividend, the token itself represents a value as it is creating money for the investor. Should Investor sell such a token on the free market, then it can be sold at prices of 8x — 20x EBITA.

DASH MASTERNODE -:

Masternodes are a form of a super-delegate on a blockchain with voting rights. One who collateralised a larger interest of shares with the intent for long-term best interest of that blockchain and cryptocurrency. A masternode is a piece of the DASH network that has 1000 DASH held as guarantee and runs a node 24 hours every day.
Masternodes are paid 45% of the mining rewards from excavators in the framework. This is spread among most of the Active masternodes in the framework. As showed by the math on DashMasterNode.org, that would yield each hub with to some degree under 10% APR come back from the mining payouts. That is not a horrendous return by most normal measures, in spite of the way that it is almost certainly going to go bring down later on (unless gathering drops, which would similarly be dreadful news bears for DASH holders).
Which one does it better?
Dash can be costly, particularly as more individuals are getting to be plainly mindful of the potential. For instance, running a DASH hub requires 1000 DASH (at current cost of $.664 per DASH, which is $664,000!) .whereas in Cajutel Passive income plan you can contribute the amount you are comfortable in, the best part is the more you invest and the more profit you can make out of it,
Hazard that the coin you back is a crap coin and it bites the dust. Thinking pessimistically: You contribute a couple of $K and lose the part. You cannot lose more than you put in, however there is the thing that speculators call the ‘open door cost’. For instance: You put your $5,000 in a masternode in a system that kicks the bucket, which implies you could not contribute that $5,000 anywhere else. In Cajutel, someone buying a token in the beginning would earn in 6 years 52$. Depending on in which phase he invests, this can be an increase of value of 1.86x up to 5.31x. The interesting is the following years as you can expect dividends far above the 20$ per share every year.
Masternode is going to pay 2 Dash per week, So yearly Investor will get only 104 Dash, whereas in Cajutel if you have invested in phase 1 per Token cost $15 on which cajutel will give a yearly dividend of $52 after the third year which is more than 3 times, But in Dash Masternode they are only paying 1/10 dividend yearly, and in Cajutel you will yearly get a dividend of more than 30% of your Investment.

These are the advantages give Cajutel a sizeable lead over Dash Masternode which is why I feel Cajutel is the Best Passive Investment Plan and will become most successful crypto coin in the future.