Bitcoin Forum

Updated title.

It is based on human trust. Seems ridiculous to me as you can invent USD amounts that you have.

I guess there will be cases like this - when people default and cause others to default, but it is easy to isolate yourself - you just need to limit the debt amounts of your friends that you are willing to cover (and choose your friends wisely).

But I think that the Ripple guys do need to think a bit more about defaults and setting up new accounts in the network.

I'd use it to owe people beer. Not a house.

people are paying good bitcoins for ripples and getting ripped off in the process (pun intended? lol)

Ripple will fail because $1 in debt is not worth $1, its worth less.

With this logic, paypal wouldn't exist, because $1 in my pocket is worth more than $1 at paypal. Paypal exists because there is utility in moving that $1 when physical transfer is not practical.

I've heard you repeat that false analogy before. You clearly have no clue about Ripple. The original classic.ripplepay.com has been functioning successfully for years. If you don't like it then don't use. The rest of us will move forward.

For that matter, neither would banks. Your bank balance is the amount your bank owes you. Your balance at MtGox is the amount they owe you. Gift certificates are merchandise owed. Pre-paid credit cards are an IOU. Etc.

I don't see this "domino" effect taking place, at least not anymore chance than currently exists. Bitstamp could be issuing IOUs in ripple and secretly using specie on the side. However, they don't need ripple to do this. They could have less USD or BTC than they have in customer accounts, hoping there will never be a run.

In fact, wouldn't ripple help prevent this? Their ripple address balance is public information, customer account balances are not. If I tally their ripple address info and it comes to $4.3 billion, I might suspect something and take delivery of my USD and BTC.

There's a lot of reasons why I don't like ripple.

• It's closed source
  
• It's too centralised
• The founders have hoarded 100 billion XRP
• Too complicated

If people find Bitcoin too complicated they haven't got a hope in hell of wrapping their head around Ripple.

For good and obvious reasons until their out of beta and stable.

The whole point of this implementation of Ripple is decentralization. Once it's out of beta OpenCoin won't control the servers anymore and it will be as decetralised as bitcoin.

This is not true in the way you state it. They made 100 billion XPR. They gave away some large percent to the founders; some large percent they'll keep for future use; and the lions share they'll continue to give away. If you don't like that (I'm not pleased with some of the details of the give-away so far) then either don't use the Ripple system or just use the amount of XRP you got from the give-away and never buy or sell any. The give-away on this forum started with ~50,000 XRP and is now down to ~20,000XRP. A life supply of XRP is probably 1000 to 2000 for most people. Personally I don't give a shit what the price of XRP is and if the founders or OpenCoin makes money with it, as long as the system remains cheap enough for new users. (And the XRP needed for reserves and transactions can be lowered by consensus of the network if XRP somehow becomes expensive, the network would want to do that as a network too expensive to use benefits no one).

This is probably your only valid point. The whole idea of money, fiat, currency exchange, loans, interest rates, inflation, deflation, etc is too complicated for most people. Yet somehow they use money. Some people can't manage Paypal; Ripple may not be for them.

And yet bitcoin is doing fine with not everyone understanding it. A lot of Ripple is simpler, more like Paypal, once you start to use it. Once clients evolve it should be easier. It would be easy for someone to write a client that hides all the details and just gives a "send grandma money" button (okay, a bit more complicated, but you get the idea). The current UI has problems but I get the impression a lot more effort is being expended (rightly so) on the back-end rather than the client at this time.

and what are they trying to accomplish by doing that? security through obscurity? bitcoin is still beta, but it's open source as well.

No, they want a monopoly on it and if they release the source than people will fork it and make it better.  They want to retain control.  If this prospect sits uneasy with you, it should.

There is no other reason for them to keep it closed source right now.  They paid good money for it, and they want to make money off of it, and if it's forked, their little plan of eventually selling 20 billion XRP that they kept for themselves is in trouble.  Ripple is a get-rich-quick scheme for the creators.  It should be obvious at this point.

Imagine what people would be saying if satoshi premined 1 mil BTC before he released the client.  This is the situation that Ripple is in, and this is why Ripple is clearly a scam.


If you like the idea of Ripple, then please, create your own version if it.  It obviously has utility.  But don't use this corporate crap.  We need a community effort, not a bunch of business people trying to make a quick buck.

I agree. The fact these guys have centralized it and created so much currency for themselves screams of get rich quick. Not to mention a digital currency system based around human trust in tenuous at best.

When you deposit money at MtGox, you are given USD IOUs. When you buy Bitcoins using those IOUs on the MtGox exchange, you are given BTC IOUs. When you redeem your USD or BTC IOUs at MtGox, you get USD or BTC. Ripple functions identically.

Except everyone and anyone is a mtgox and can invent their earnings in Ripple.

Just because one major bitcoin player (mtgox) takes a lot of trust doesn't mean everyone should have that level of trust. Bitcoinica, Pirate, Mybitcoin, etc are going to look like dice in the alley operations compared to what is possible in Ripple if it takes off.

As is stated in the Ripple wiki, only trust issuers whose IOUs feel that you can depend on. I certainly won't be extending YOU any trust for your "manface coins."


I agree. That's why in Ripple, you set the trust relationship manually for every entity. More than likely, people will have just one trust line to the most convenient gateway. Keep in mind that people already do this now - they trust their bank with their checking account and/or savings account.

If you don't trust anyone, you can simply hold your assets in Bitcoins, XRPs (if you trust the Ripple source code), and/or precious metals.

So what sort of regulations must a ripple gateway have compared to a legal bank in a country? None. Case closed.

Like I said people can invent their earnings and con people with no problem. In Bitcoin I can't con you that I have 20 million Bitcoins, it's easy to confirm. In Ripple I can save I have 20 billion USD and some people may believe me as there is no way to confirm it. If people think Bitcoin scams are a problem Ripple is going to magnify them 100x.

OP: Is it really necessary to start the same thread over and over again?

Ripple SCAM: You *do not* own BTC or USD, you own debt that will collapse (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178622.0)

Ripple Scam: Centralized, Centrally Issued, Bribes exchanges, Closed Source, Tax (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=147789.0)

Report Ripple & ScamCoin Inc to FTC for False Advertising  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148296.0)

OpenCoin Inc Will Debase Ripples For Wealth Transfer To Themselves (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=147922.0)

Why Ripple is a bad idea. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=142261.0)

I think it is, I'm a new member and just stumbled into this thread, I think awareness should be raised for a potential enormous scam

Every gateway will be governed by different regulatory policies. MtGox has to follow AML/KYC rules. A gateway operating in a rogue country might not have to follow any rules. But think about this - if a bank becomes a gateway, it would have to follow the banking rules of the country. This means you could have a checking account which is FDIC insured, which is also Ripple-enabled. It would add functionality to something you are already used to using (a checking account at a bank).

As is stated in the wiki, you absolutely must be aware of the risks when extending trust to a gateway. If you don't like that a gateway is not governed by strict regulations, don't extend trust to it.

The OP should stop bad-mouthing Ripple. He either doesn't understand it, or he is simply scare-mongering, perhaps falsely worried that his stash of BTC will become worthless. Ripple will be great for Bitcoin, but XRP will also be a competitor. Great, because competition is good. And the IOU system is actually what allows a liquid market for exchanging between crypto and real currencies to exist even in the face of government repression. If everyone is paid in fiat and needs to make payments in fiat but wants to store value in crypto, then their social network will provide a mechanism for turning wages into crypto and crypto into fiat when needed.

To the OP and other posters critical of Ripple: please do you homework first before you start throwing around insults and accusations.

I think the whole theory behind it is silly.   It is pointless.   I think we should focus on making BTC mainstream and not waste time on things that seem similar to ponzis.

Ripple makes Bitcoins more valuable since it creates a distributed Bitcoin exchange and solves the "MtGox problem." Or were you not aware?

I'm failing to grasp the whole idea, is there a thread that explains in detail how ripple works? the official ripple site is very vague on the explanation

No I read your posts and I do not believe it is a good solution.   The "mt gox" problem is NOT a problem.   Mt Gox is a band aid.   As soon as bitcoin becomes more prevalent, an exchange will list it and you will have real adults trading it and real time feeds from even yahoo to keep your exchange rates correct.   I have no need of ripple.    To me, it is a liability, not an asset to the future of bitcoin.

+1 I was thinking the same thing.

http://catatansemester.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/closed_source_versus_open_source_small.png

I much prefer the structure on the left. Proprietary software is almost always better than open source software. Of course, there are a couple of exceptions like Linux, or Apache. But for the most part, when I think of open source I think of clunky, shitty interfaces that are hard to use and of course forget about customer service. GIMP is a prime example.

A commercial entity needs its customers in order to survive so they have to be more attentive. There are deadlines, schedules, and milestones for development. Again, I'm not saying that open source is necessarily always bad but look at what we have with Bitcoin. Primadonna developers who work on whatever they want, with no particular deadline. We don't even have an "official" client and it's been over 4 years. If users demand a feature the answer is "it's open source, write it yourself."

One of Ripple's strengths is that it is being developed by a for-profit company. They have a real CEO who is making deals to bring established institutions online as gateways, they have a budget for marketing and promotion, and unlike Bitcoin they write the specs BEFORE writing the code (see the Ripple wiki). OpenCoin has a financial incentive to make sure that the rippled software is robust, bug-free, well documented, and of course open source. They have a financial incentive to create milestones and stick to deadlines. They are accountable to their investors, who only get paid of the software succeeds.

Think about it - if Ripple is so obviously a scam, how will the people who have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions, and decades of man-years worth of development time, ever recover their investment? Maybe, just maybe, there are a lot of smart people who have been putting this system together and it will deliver as promised. The alternative is to believe that these intelligent people have just been wasting their time on a dead-end scam project and that mr. anonymous forum trolls like TradeFortress has some special insight as to why all their work is worthless. Guess which one I believe.

Misterbigg;
what is your stake in ripple?   You said it was nothing but you spend a LOT of time defending and promoting it.   I will be blunt, this is one of the reason I do not like it.   Because of the Inaba (oops, now I am BFL_Josh) constant promoting.   
With the full court press, you all are giving this right now, it really reminds me of MLM (which to me is very similar to ponzi).    You seem very intelligent but you interest in this is not just a passive defense, you post constantly about it, why?

I hold Bitcoins and XRPs. But more importantly, Ripple is the only clear path that will play nice with the banking system and let me conveniently live my life while storing my wealth in uninflatable cryptocurrency. The design of Ripple is well thought out and solves several problems with Bitcoin. I'm not saying that Ripple will immediately become a replacement for Bitcoin, rather it complements Bitcoin. Ultimately it is beneficial to everyone. Except perhaps entities with illicit control over the financial system.

I don't see how my posts remind you of multi-level marketing. Have I told anyone to buy XRPs? No. In fact, you can use and benefit from Ripple without investing in XRPs at all, a fact that I have stated a few times. A "full court press" is not even possible, because Ripple hasn't officially opened its doors to the public. The server code is certainly not currently open source. I don't expect anyone to jump on board full bore until they release the sources, which is in their best interests to do so this year.

Much like other people I was very much opposed to the whole Ripple concept, specifically because of what is the pre-mined currency but also for other reasons stated. You can see these old posts here:

Ripple: Disproportionate enrichment of the founders of the system? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146964.0)

Ripple SOUNDS nice but there are some MAJOR problems (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=142150.0)

Ripple: Why XRPs are superior to Bitcoins (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148278.0)

Despite these misgivings I continued to explore and learn more. Finally I realized the enormous benefits and functionality that the Ripple system will provide. The progression of emotion I went through will be similar for everyone (although perhaps on a larger time scale):

1. Denial: "This Ripple system is useless, and its not open source."
2. Anger: "Ripple is a scam, they pre-mined all the coins!"
3. Acceptance: "Ripple is useful, and the founders will be rich."
4. Profit: "Ripple will benefit me."

Right now people are stuck in stage #1 and #2. But as Ripple catches on and people realize how powerful it is, they will move to acceptance. And finally profit. Note that all Bitcoin users will eventually benefit from Ripple because the first thing that Ripple will do is create "profoundly liquid" markets for Bitcoins. Imagine being able to deposit your money at Bitstamp, but have access to the order books of all exchanges simultaneously. And no possibility of a denial of service attack. That's just the beginning of what Ripple can do.

How about opening a Ripple-enabled bank account, keep your balance in Bitcoins and when you use your debit card the Bitcoins are automatically sold at market to pay for your purchase at incredibly low fees, and your bank account is FDIC insured against loss? Yes please.

The problem that most Bitcoiners have with Ripple is largely emotional. They are upset that these guys gave themselves all the money. Which is actually a valid point. Money is such a sensitive, intimate subject that to think that these people will get rich because they control the money supply is anathematic to the principles which make Bitcoin so attractive. However, if you put the emotion aside and analyze Ripple on its technical merits and what it can do for people then it seems pretty clear if they deliver on the promises it will be a revolution in every way as significant as Bitcoin itself. In this light, I have to wonder if maybe OpenCoin deserves to be enriched for creating the first functional competitor to the traditional financial system?

While I initially found it distasteful that they desire to profit by selling all the money they started with, after seeing the problems with the economic structure of Bitcoin development (donation driven) I think that having a for-profit commercial entity whose financial interests are in seeing Ripple succeed and seeing the XRP currency appreciate is better than the profit-less model of Bitcoin. OpenCoin has money for marketing, developing videos, hiring lots of smart people, maintaining an office, having a real CEO, being able to attract investment capital, etc... They even bought out the company "simplehoney" and added its mobile developers to their ranks. Compare this with Bitcoin...

Yeah I'm not only one then who has noticed this. I asked him yesterday if he was affiliated with Ripple and he said he had 'no official connection to Ripple'.

I'm actually quite suspicious there are some Ripple shills on this forum. The guy who quoted my post in this topic to defend it for example, every single one of his posts is about Ripple and some of them are like freaking essays. I also noticed there was no mention of Ripple on this subforum for ages, it was dead, then out of nowhere this week I saw 3 different topics on the front page all created by new-ish accounts (march or so).

Like I said I have no official connection to Ripple. I hold Bitcoins and XRPs. That's it!

If you're really familiar with the forums you will of course notice that I have been very active posting on a variety of topics. Nothing really exciting is happening in Bitcoinlandia. There was the SatoshiDICE spam / economically unspendable output stuff but that's blown over. In my opinion Ripple is the next big thing, so this is why I am active in any thread that mentions Ripple.

I will almost always respond in any Ripple thread where I can provide insights and facts based on the information that I have collected. You can see some of my earlier posts where I collected a lot of information. As I said before I shared all of the misgivings given by the OP. You can see that in the older posts. Unlike the trolls / naysayers I stuck with it and kept digging to find out if those fears were unfounded. It still sucks that they gave themselves all the money but that's life. Ripple will be big regardless.

I still stand by my previous posts on the matter. I also think you are underestimating how much the Foundation owning 80 billion XRP has smeared the reputation of the project. I've read that in every single Ripple topic I have opened up on this forum. Don't get me wrong I am all for developers monetising their work and being rewarded for their innovations but that is too greedy for me and a lot of other people.

I think you do understand my point on why this is like a MLM scam coming out of Utah, because it has way too many similarities to them.   And, they always end up well for the "founders", the early bandwagoners and not so good for the foot soldiers.

Not sure what you mean about smearing the reputation. Are you talking about how they co-opted the original ripple-pay system? Where are these threads (I'm very interested in reading them).


Which part is the MLM scam, the XRP currency or the Ripple system? You can use the Ripple system without using the XRP currency, so I don't see how the Ripple system is a scam. As far as the XRP currency goes, besides the initial distribution how are XRPs different than Bitcoins?

besides the initial distribution....   Right there.   XRP. 

I support ripple too.

I actually don't hoard XRP.  It's a bad idea.  It's not meant to be a deflationary coin like bitcoin.  Ripple is an awesome platform and has enormous utility.

"Ripple SCAM: You *do not* own BTC or USD, you own debt that will collapse"

..well someone doesnt like Ripple.

Are you spreading trueths again?
 ;D

I'm not really sure I support Ripple. I like the idea of a p2p trust network. I'm not sure Ripple fills that criteria as XRP is controlled by a central authority, who can print it at will or on a whim in the future with unforetold consequences. It puts a bad taste in my mouth like it would if Ben Bernanke were coding the Bitcoin client.

Obviously there will be some argument against this that I've probably already read but not taken in properly so anyone that can clarify feel free.

So far there is no evidence that OpenCoin can create additional XRPs above the 100 billion that already existed in the genesis ledger.

I am guessing since they decided to award themselves 80% of that 100 billion they can do whatever they see fit.

OpenCoin securing ~20% for development is the reason Ripple will be more successful. They address some of the problems with bitcoin, while supporting bitcoin at the same time.

Here are some of the problems with bitcoin that OpenCoin fixes: development hinges on donations. This means fewer devs, less dev attention, fewer strategic partnerships, no marketing budget, virtually no support.

You know what they say, it takes money to make money.

What the world needs is a decentralized currency and a better way to use money digitally. OpenCoin will get us there, the fact that they will profit along the way is inconsequential.  OpenCoin doesn't even take a transaction fee, they are creating a system that will eventually be "let loose in the wild" and it fixes some huge problems... at like zero cost to the end user.

It's a win-win for business and consumer.

Do you understand the protocol as described in the wiki? There's no way to create XRPs. They exist only because of the initial balance in the genesis ledger.

There's a difference between $0.999 worth of debt and $0.80 worth of debt.


That is because the developers chose to give themselves the ripples. They could easily have distributed the XRPs in a fair way or create them in advance, but they chose not to because they want 50 billion XRPs.

Let's enforce a tax of 20% on all bitcoin transactions! Nobody will help develop bitcoin without that tax!

Well, you are wrong. It's not a win win, it's a win for ScamCoin Inc, a lose for everyone who get suckered in thinking that they have "USD" or "BTC" when in fact they don't own those currencies, only debt.

Bitcoin businesses, adopters and users have an incentive to contribute to bitcoin. And OpenCoin is keeping 50 billion, not 20 billion.

The original dev team is keeping 20B XRP, OpenCoin is distributing 50B and keeping 30B.

Ripple is mostly just a payment processing system. It's the paypal killer that bitcoin is not. Worried you'll miss the boat on soaring XRP value? Buy a few. You're worried their credit system is wonky? Then wait 5 years and judge it then because it's not important right now.

Ripple is a big vision and misterbigg gets it and he's totally pwning all ye trolls, sry.

I don't waste time with people who pull the troll card. Learn what a troll actually is.

I don't mind people posting their opinion on what they don't like about Ripple, but please stop posting misinformation. It gives people like me who are trying to figure out what the hell Ripple is a headache.

Point out the "misinformation" please.

Can somebody explain to me why I want to use ripple? Or is it to early to be practically useful in any way yet?

I know why I like to use BTC: I'm in control of my own money, it can't be inflated, cheap transactions (though I understand it might not stay that way), international transactions, trust-free system.

In fact, bitcoin is pretty close to everything I want out of money. Why do I want to use ripple, again?

And does anyone use ripple for anything practical yet?

It's useful for this, lol https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=147155.20

To exchange between BTC and fiat currencies. It's the killer app for Bitcoin enthusiasts.

Can you explain more? So ripple is like Mtgox? I can wire cash to a bank somewhere and get BTCs in return?

Ripple is made up of two parts really:

1) the XRP (ripple units) part
It fails because it is 100% premined and is under a 51% attack from the founders, but there is the advantage of faster transaction times. All it needs is PoW and no premining, however the Ripple developers do not wish to release the source code for others to contribute and make forks of it.

2) the exchange part
Where you can exchange debt in exchange for other debt or XRPs. It works as long as no gateway collapses.

With Ripple, you can transfer two kinds of things: Ripples (XRP) and IOUs in any real or virtual currency. The system keeps perfect track of those, but to make payments you have to find someone who is willing to accept them in payment. This is the same as with Bitcoin. Trading in real world currencies is made easier by the existence of gateways like Bitstamp. You can send USD to Bitstamp in a number of ways and you can then send that money to Ripple in the form of Bitstamp-flavoured USD IOUs. Those IOUs in turn can be sent back to be redeemed for real USD by Bitstamp. People who trust that Bitstamp will redeem its IOUs for real dollars, will then accept the IOUs as payment. They indicate that trust by granting Bitstamp a certain credit limit within the Ripple system.

The same thing works without gateways: if you want to make a payment to someone you don't know, then Ripple will try to find a path between you and the receiver in the trust graph. If that person is a friend of a a friend of a friend, and if credit limits and balances along the path allow it, the transfer of IOUs will be made. Each person can settle with their direct neighbours at the end of the month, or whenever they please. In fact, this uses the exact same system as in the example with the gateway, the gateway is merely acting as a professional "friend" of both you and the receiver, thus making you friends of a friend.

To avoid getting scammed, a gateway will not reciprocate the trust and will only issue IOUs for money it has already received from you. It depends on its reputation to get people to buy its IOUs. And since the Ripple system has a built-in exchange, complete with order book, you can even trade IOUs denominated in the same real or virtual currency but issued by different gateways, or even just check the exchange rate to see whether people in the network believe the gateway is credit worthy.

You have to get used to the idea before you really get it, but it's perfectly natural. And it turns out it's no more than a digital form of the system that was used in the 17th and 18th centuries: Ripple, or Bills of Exchange 2.0 (http://jpkoning.blogspot.nl/2013/02/ripple-or-bills-of-exchange-20.html).

Thank you for the detailed response. I'm going to sound repetitive, and I hope I don't frustrate you, but I'm still trying to put my finger on a reason I should want to use ripple.

In terms of buying bitcoins; it sounds like it's just about the same user experience, maybe a little more complicated. I guess I'll stick to mtgox.

And what need have I for IOUs when I can just as easily pay/receive real value in the form of bitcoins? It seems like an IOU is only useful when you're broke, or you've mismanaged your cash flows and need to borrow. And in that case, why not just borrow some bitcoins directly?

Are you using ripple for any kind of commerce / financial activity? What for?

It will be a distributed exchange, and therefore much more resistant to DDoS or government shutdowns than Mt Gox.


Traditional electronic fiat currencies are IOUs too, you have to trust that your bank will redeem your balance in real dollars. An electronic ledger is no more than a record, it cannot enforce settlement in a real world currency. When you trade BTC for USD on Mt Gox you are effectively trading Mt Gox issued BTC IOUs for Mt Gox issued USD IOUs.

One of the interesting things about Ripple is that it allows you to specify explicit trust lines. All nodes you can reach through these lines can pay you and you can pay them, and you don't need any banks or governments to do it. Each party settles with his or her direct neighbours periodically, in whatever form is convenient. As adoption increases, you'd have to settle less and less frequently, because more and more companies would accept payment through Ripple.

I expect Ripple to become more reliable, resilient, anonymous and liquid than Mt Gox.


Just playing around with it for now. If I'm going to buy any new BTC, it's likely going to be through Ripple. I won't hold large amounts of XRP or IOUs in the Ripple system until after the code is open sourced, gateways have proven their creditworthiness and many others than OpenCoin are running validators.

Question -- so am I correct in thinking that Ripple allows you to send XRP alone through the system, while it does NOT mediate sending BTC through the system, but only BTC IOUs that have to be sent separately (off-network) through the transacting gateways?

BTC would be converted to XRP and Ripple will select a path for your transaction based on trust lines.

If you want to send BTC from a Bitcoin wallet to another Bitcoin wallet then there's really no need for Ripple. If you want to do anything else with money, you might soon get some good use out of Ripple.

You don't need to convert to XRP to make use of the rippling system, separate trust lines exist for different currencies. I'm not sure you can even grant trust in XRP. It is inferior to straight XRP for payments,  but it could be useful for community credit, something I'm skeptical about.

XRP just has fancy UI and no value. Dump it and stop discussing it. Let it die.

Ha ha you can have your Debt.

you can eat your Debt .

You can suck a monkey off with your Debt .

Most people spend their lives trying to get out of debt , then these idiots want to push this shit on us here?

what is this?  the AOL net?

please FUCK OFF WITH RIPPLE . we/I don't care. (just speaking strictly for myself here ; ) )


**note I’m happy to have a long conversation with anyone about why there is a distinct possibility that many people will DIE, in a terrible deflationary spiral, all caused by a Debt money system.

i don't know that much about Ripple , except to know that it is NOTrelevant, to this system of open design.

Thank you.

How much personal lending have you done? There is a big difference between a bank, paypal, and Joes brother who lives down the street.

Ive made several personal loans ranging from a few hundred to several thousands. All I can say about the loaning business, is its best left to banks.

If you want to make a habit of giving out tons of credit in interest free personal loans, go right ahead. Enjoy.

The rest of us will move forward.

ad.1 you forgot to add XRP has no value so you cant transfer any value using it. Calculation is simple 0 * value = 0
And since they are handing xrp for free there is no way for it to have value on its own.

If XRP has no value, I'll gladly take it off you. XRP is worth 52 XRP/$1 at the current exchange rate.

Considering that there are already 100 billion in existence, I find that to be highly overpriced. When the market gets flooded with these, they are liable to decrease in value.

100 billion divided by 11 million bitcoins = 9090 times the amount of XRP as bitcions in existence. Take this into account, and even if they were equivalently valued in terms of utility, they should still be worth 9090 less per unit. Bitcions are valued at $130/ coin now, so 130/9090 = $0.0143 per XRP, which means you should be able to buy 70 XRP for a dollar, even if XRP are now considered to be equivalent in utility as bitcoins! Already XRP are being valued higher than bitcoin...