Bitcoin Forum

China has been trying to short the bitcoin market a couple of times now by making weak hands panic sell on every of their PBOC announcements.
The PBOC is obviously using their power to destabilize the market in order to keep stealing money from weak hands and profit from margin traded short positions as well.

But something is clear: Every time they come up with a bullshit excuse to crush the price, bitcoin rises stronger and their effect on the price weakens:

https://s30.postimg.org/g03n6b0sx/bitcoindefeatschina.jpg

By looking at this, and also by looking at the price difference between Okcoin and western exchanges, it is clear that china is no longer a dominant market maker.

They can try to shoot at him along the way, but it will keep recovering.

Bitcoin wins again and the path towards glory continues.

I'm still not familiar with how most investments work but if they're earning less from it then that's a good thing. I'd understand that shorting is an investment strategy some individuals use but if the government does engage in it would really be unfair since they have larger influence in how things are run that it almost seem unethical.

But what you don't realize is the fact that it actually worked and lots of people panic sold so, idk, Bitcoin prices are going back up but I'm sure people got burned.

That's what we've been waiting for, bitcoin without no domination from one country that has big impact in every manipulation they made. Spread more and more widely to every country so that we have more stable market. If one country regulated bitcoin so badly, we still have other countries. China no longer lead the trading volume and a bit behind other exchanges outside.
Although, no need to worry about Chinese government, as they won't ban bitcoin instead of cooperate with those exchanges to protect their citizens and prevent any illegal activity.

That's why projects based on P2P protocols are something usually hard to kill . I guess the time has finally come where China no longer control the most of the bitcoin supply , potentials investors could feel more secure now while investing and knowing that the price cannot be manipulated that easy.

seeing how much volume has so quickly jumped to other exchanges show that it really has nothing to do with the "chineese" dominating bitcoin, it's just that everyone flocks to the best exchanges to use at the time, the high frequency day traders, they are from all over the world..

but if everyone sell just to buy back later more coins it can't be called burned, they have just increased their bitcoin, the one that lose a good profit are the one that do not sell and wait again for the price to recover, cellard is saying that this is working less and less and you can't fool investors 2-3 times, you can see that each dump is smaller and the recover is faster

It only be unethical if they're doing something to manipulate the market to make the market move in the direction that benefits their short position (i.e., making the price fall). It seems like China was doing this, according to the OP - but I see now source article or facts were presented.

It's not unethical for governments to own short positions, as long as they aren't interfering with the natural course of market activity.

You maybe correct here, but we know before that China has more miners. Bt with current news that many of them are busted and raided I thin it is starting to diminish now. Its good that it is not dominated by any country as of now. Do we have wallet distribution by which country has massive bitcoin volume? Glad to know.

I dont know how the market will continue to handle it with incessant threat of the chinese govt. Two of the biggest exchanges had been stopped from withrawal, with stance warning, just to control the price of bitcoin. Now I dont think is about the inside fraud in the chinese exchanges

It's just for a month and no more. if they can't withdrawal their bitcoin but they still can trade his bitcoin, and the exchange site will keep staying on his phase. No worry about it dude.

you got it all wrong. it is not PBoC who is doing these things related to price and dumps and weak hands shaking out, it is the whales and the manipulators and those who spread FUD.

this was said more than a thousand times, what PBoC is doing is what any other country have done and is doing and will do when you are running a business using fiat. they did it for their forex market, stocks market, any small business like a small shop groceries, and now are dong it with bitcoin exchanges :D
it is the same, when using fiat you have to follow the fiat rules.

and all these things in your picture happen because whales dump in other exchanges such as bitfinex and bitstamp to create panic and make more profit.

Its too early to say that. Maybe the war is just getting started. We all know what PBoC is capable of. PBoC's FUDs got impacts on every FUDs they've spread. Theres still a lot of noobs believed they're bullcraps. But this time its not that effective because we usually crashed from $1000+ to $700. Expect that PBoC intensifies their attacks to bitcoin.

One more reason why china cant control bitcoin price specially in case of dumping is that people all over the world trust bitcoins. So if the China decided to dump the coins, the people wont support it as people have trust in bitcoins. So no one country now cant have any big influence on bitcoins.

That is the best reference we can have that bitcoin is no longer owned by a numbers of large entities globally. It's much distributed now so if ever there is an ongoing attempt to make a panic, the response was not on an instant result but a slow one and will passed first at testing status.

Well no doubt, China can really start a FUD attempt anytime they want, it's really up to the community's response about the thing they will create.

There is no clear link between PBOC announcements and the meltdown of bitcoins price. What I know is that PBOC inspection has stopped the market manipulation and creation of fake volumes by Chinese Exchangers. With those issues being taken care of the bitcoin users have again regained their confidence and started investing on bitcoins again and thats why the price has soared up again back to 1000$. But whatever reasons it may be the important thing is that bitcoin has become stronger and users will no longer be wavered by any issues that struck bitcoin.

I agree with OP that in every dump, bitcoin becomes stronger but I think the dumps that occur is not directly related to the anouncements made by PBOC. They just helped bitcoin get stronger by weeding out those chinese traders that are creating fake volume in bitcoin. With it being gone, more people have confidence in bitcoin. They might really helped in the current dumps that occurred but their announcements might have not been the real reason why bitcoin price have dumped on those days.

Bitcoin has been increasing in number of users along with the increasing adoption. Chinese market is much adopted to fake volume to make the transactions high. After PBOC's inspection upon exchange websites this came to an end, soon price became stable and started to have a real increase in price.

i am still don't understand how to translate that image to make prediction of bitcoin price. but if the price is getting lower than before, then i think its a right time for us to buy, i don't thinking too much about any regulations from any country. as long as i can trade crypto currency and using crypto currency is not prohibited then i think i will continue to use it. big whales is big whales and i only follow with what market said and if the trend is down, i will follow to down but it doesn't mean i should sell lower than i am buy before.

its not about bitcoin defeats the chinese government or not, its about us when we use bitcoin for daily, the more people using bitcoin then i am sure the more powerful bitcoin is.

I have an idea that will change the world. I know it sounds really stupid, but I know how to do it. I think it could actually work.

If control on bitcoin from chinese side is reduced, it means a lot because the word "decentrilez currency" is destroyed by them but people want decentralization. But this doesn't means they can't control bitcoin and who knows, maybe it's the end of new begining, to my mind many attempts will come from their side, everyone knows how they want to take bitcoin in their hands.

And that's exactly what they are looking for, because they know it works, and they know that it will work another time as well. I am trading and monitoring the market since very early 2013, and time on time again the market remains sensitive to certain news articles, where it results in panic. As long as it works, the people (whoever they are) will continue to do so. It makes them millions as this is basically the same as trading with insider information. People shouldn't underestimate China's influence even though their fake volumes are gone...


Weird definition of burned you have. In my books burned is when you end up selling at a loss, and buy back at a price higher than what you sold at. It will result in you decreasing your coins.


Read the first part of my post. Yes, the price does happen to increase afterwards, but this manipulation game works time on time again. It doesn't really matter who gets fooled and sells in panic, the point is, if they so wish, the market will tank. Weird that some people still don't seem to understand these basics.

It was not China being more miner but China being the place where most miner enthusiast and farm chose because of the cheap electricity cost.  Who know who really are the owner of those mining machine.  Maybe most are europeans or americans and some asian not Chinese that invested to that huge farm.

we all keep saying decentralized but many don't get what it means that is why they think China or any other country for that matter, has a say in this. they do not.

bitcoin is going to exist and get stronger every day and there is no stopping it. and believe me when i say they already know this, otherwise they would have done something about it already in the past 8 years.

all the FUD and all the negativity that has been thrown at bitcoin could only slow it down, and could never shake it from its real path towards adoption.

Panic selling has been the order of the day for several days and weeks and I'm surprised to here that China is behind these fluctuations, it's really got people burned so bad with their BTC's. Unless perhaps you made it through the margins. It's a terrible experience to lose so much and I'm glad Bitcoin always rises to the occasion to defeat these oppressors.

Good luck.

So, you believe that the PBOC is buying bitcoins and/or shorting it? I'm skeptical. Where's your evidence?

The ownership really doesn't matter. The bottom line is that those farms are in China and if the Chinese government decides they can close down or even take over those farms. All it takes is one executive order.

This is what I'm thinking too. Their mindsets of being greedy is the one that makes me think about this to PBoC. They saw that there is money in bitcoin and they don't want to see others dominate with it. Great authority, great power leads to money.

Yes and their mindset is traders we can see almost around the world people from China is a trader,
they know how to take profit from trading,
they know how to take a chance for making profit from uncontrol situation of markets bitcoin
they know to manage the markets of bitcoin until they can taking money of there.

Bitcoin proved once again, that being decentralized it shows none of the government in each country they cannot control it. at least we the community of bitcoin now have the reason to be more aggressive into bitcoin. They've lost because o f their greediness in money, so God didn't allow it to be happen still the bitcoin enthusiast won the market.

if they dump but buy back at lower price how can you call it burned? and if they buy back it make no sense for them to dump and kill the price they would only lose money isn't it true? only a moron would kill the price by losing his coins

PBOC is not buying bitcoins rather they are crating a third party to monitor the bitcoin trading. Its not PBOC who is destabilizing the market but the Chinese exchangers. PBOC is actually placing laws and regulations to CHinese exchangers so there will be no more market manipulation and sudden volatility. Without PBOC inspection and policies maybe until now Chinese exchangers are still playing with fake volumes and the price of bitcoin and we the users and investors will suffer losses from such wild volatility.

In this case, you have a point, It is true that almost all bitcoin lovers won't support any dump which other group are planning to do it.  It is really shows only bitcoin decentralization was very effective and powerful :),

This is great, decentralized was the reason bitcoin created, with no one dominated the market bitcoin surely will rise even further, it has proven people power is very effective against domination, there are a lot of party trying to control bitcoin, but because the user is widely spread so it is not that easy to control bitcoin, I am really glad no one is controlling bitcoin because it is the freedom currency that I always wanted

It worked but only for a limited amount of time and for a limited amount of people beside one of things those people don't realize is that the more you use an strategy the less effective it becomes because we get used to it and we may even use it to our advantage.

What you said is perfect, when a same thing is repeated then it losses its value and it wont carry effect and the same thing is happening with china market before they were success with this trick but now other country users are having more faith on bitcoin and on every decline they are buying as it is a buying opportunity for them

Bitcoin is now more or less free from chinese gamblers and manipulators and its good for bitcoin progress.Bitcoin was created mainly as a decentralized currency and china was a great threat to this decentralization feature these much days.Here after,bitcoin price will reflect its real value and not a manipulated value.

I doubt there is anything that any government can do to destroy bitcoins like the US government did to Liberty Reserve, am sure thats one of the reason why satoshi has remained anonymous so far . he doesn't want any charges of money laundering and tax evasion brought against him by any government.

Satoshi is one step ahead of the government that's why he hide his identify because he know that the government will run after him for creating bitcoin technology. I think bitcoin will continue to exist even though any government or country for that matter will labeled bitcoin as illegal. Also, bitcoin is decentralized as we all understand it, so no government not even China could stop bitcoin.

How can it be money laundering or tax evasion when bitcoins isn't issued or regulated by any government? That's the one of the privileges you get if you use bitcoin. You don't have to pay any tax, you don't go to jail for hoarding money or so.

Maybe one government is not enough so I'm thinking that maybe all countries are going to try and destroy bitcoins. But I really do believe that if ever a government, especially a major one, have done a single thing that's about bitcoins, it will just introduce more members. Thus, it will have a negative effect to them instead. When they announce that they are going to put a ban on bitcoins, people are going to be curious about it and probably use it when they found out the use and advantages of bitcoins.

I've never expected for the Chinese government to ever really be able to combat the "Bitcoin menace" as it would be, regardless of all the various things they try to implement to get their people from using it. There are simply too many people with too many different means of getting what they want, along with too big of a market to stop it at this point.

Bitcoin is no longer experiencing the same influence from China as it once did. There is still some influence China can exert, but it is much smaller than what it used to be.

Yes, I'll along with all that you wrote.  There seem to be many ways of getting BTC out of China (and so can buy other assets outside of China).  I believe a lot of VPNs also work in China to cloak browsing as well as make it possible (at least in many cases) to avoid the "Great Firewall of China".

Should it become easier to buy assets worth a lot of money with Bitcoin, more Chinese people will likely start getting money into BTC and out of China.

Bitcoin has already defeated every regulation and government that tries to restrict it. And will automatically defeat all future attempts of regulation and governments. 

Because by definition, since inception, through the future, defeats both.

Bitcoin doesn't need to "defeat" the Chinese government.  A lot of their supposed attempts at regulation before were just FUD, and now that they're seemingly actually trying to do something it's not significant.

Even if nothing like that existed what is stopping the person to buy bitcoin in other countries, simply put the ways we can use bitcoin to achieve our goals are almost unlimited and no amount of regulation is going to change that anytime soon.

I think it is very satisfying for our users and can beat china bitcoin.
forward bitcoin

Honestly, I never think that the Chinese government is suppressing Bitcoin or Bitcoin users and Bitcoin miners.  If they are, they should have release and order of closure of all the Bitcoin mining farm in their country.  But have we heard of that news?  No.  Simply because Chinese government just want to make things in order.  They need to protect their interest and preserve their law on AML and KYC.  The reason why they are only after the exchanges that transacts Bitcoin and  other currencies.

exactly this. i have been saying this for a long time.
every time there is some small news in China about regulations, all the news media make that simple news into something horrible and make it so that Chinese government seem like a dictatorship set out to kill anybody who even thinks about bitcoin :)
and when you think about these new or get them from proper Chinese resources you can clearly see that the concern has always been about illegal activities done with bitcoin and an attempt to prevent it and nothing more.

so i say whoever that is talking about China and how they want to kill bitcoin is either very misunderstood person or they want to do something illegal and this prevents them.

OK, but if you don't have a trustable Chinese resource, you can't decide if the news are legit or not... Moreover, China is a very strict country, so you can just belive the news if they're a bit horrible. Things are different in China, so who knows...
I'm wondering what will be next after the BU thing that comes from China, but I'm more curious about Japan, since there are great news from there in connection with the everyday use of bitcoin. Japan is a bit different country, so we'll see.

very very unethical! I find out that any time the price of bitcoin  make an attempt to be more than the price of gold the people bank of china will come up with they usual trick of regulations of the big exchangers like okcoin, btcc and others and the arm is to create panic  were people will sell off they position. But they have be cut to their size.

Mao Zedong's "revolution" was funded by international banking cartels.

Today, banks wield a great deal of influence in china.

It could help to recognize many of china's policies are written by bankers, rather than by chinese politicians.

Believe me, You will see block extension after the bitcoin unlimited soon. Japan is announcing if the bitcoin has accepted on the japan. But the next news will have related to that topic.
https://themerkle.com/bitcoin-unlimited-vs-extension-blocks/
More competitor for SW, although it was still being an untested proposal.
It looks the Japan becomes a leader in the bitcoin right now. Along with the bitcoin's history and this is the first time Chinese gets kicked out by the japan from his domination.

You are either severely misinformed or ignorantly uninformed

While keeping and using Bitcoin in general cannot be considered money laundering (unless you deliberately go for that, of course), but it is certainly not so with taxes as you seem to assume. The fact that the government didn't create, doesn't issue or regulate Bitcoin doesn't in the least mean that it is somehow tax free altogether. The government likely didn't build your home either (provided you have one in the first place), but you still have to pay a property tax on it. With Bitcoin, you have to pay an income tax on your earnings that you obtain via Bitcoin operations. It is easy to avoid this tax, but that doesn't make Bitcoin less taxable and your tax evasion less illegal. Sorry to dispel your illusions on this account

Bitcoin haven't defeated any government for its well being. It grew as a technology to support financial system which in turn due to the growth got used as an payment gateway and for illegal transactions. Now most of them consider it an investment as the growth experienced is high than other investments.

Bitcoin didn't defeat Chinese government, new players or new strategy used by old players lowered Chinese influence on bitcoin network. I doubt that any coin can defeat countries, I don't think that bitcoin is made for that ( or I'm wrong? ). And when we are on influence on bitcoin, I think that is on miners and and early adopter's cause they have a lot of bitcoins, and they can manipulate with markets.

Ya it is true that the users dont wanted to pay tax so he is just ignoring it or wantedly he is just commenting here but he knows that if their government states bitcoin as illegal  then obviously he will be more worried if he is holding bitcoins in high stock. Some country are just ignoring the bitcoin but having the close watch on the transaction and uses of it and some country are making steps to curb bitcoin and its users.

there is 8btc that gives more logical and level headed news.
but even without a news source you can use your head and your own logic. look around you and see what business is working without a license? that is right, NO business that is legal and works with fiat.
now imagine you hear a business with 20 million something dollar money flow on daily basis is working without a license or anything else.
that business is bitcoin exchanges in China.

and i don't get why you bring BU into this so i won't comment on that.

I dont know whats on the mind on that dude above mentioning that theres no harm on using bitcoin when it comes to tax issues and yet government would be really have a close watch when tax is involved and it can really caught their attention when you do hoard lots of it.Its really suspicious but depend on how you gonna execute it and you are right some countries do really have serious matter when it comes to bitcoin but it they arent do care at all.

What difference does it make if China and other countries try to regulate bitcoin,either people start investing heavily in it because the government have regulated and with China being the major players in the mining area as they did have some power but now things have changed as more countries are looking into the opportunity and technology.

Its no longer news that bitcoin is actually getting its independence from all sort of news or hear say and I think its really a good news that every one in the community should be happy about. Aside that its also sends a signal to the outside community that the volatility regarding bitcoin is actually being managed and gradually reliance can be placed upon it in other to move to the next level.

If that is true then that maneuver is not going to work for long there is a reason there are not fixed rates between currency's, you can only throw so much money at something before reality hits and show us reality, if people think bitcoin is more valuable than gold then at some point it is going to show in the price whether you like it or not.

Bitcoin will not increase in value not because it is much more valuable than gold but rather it will increase in value because of its usability. When states are adopting bitcoin they are projecting bitcoin to be used as a form of payment rather than as an investment. In this sense bitcoin having this uses will be attracting more users and the demand from them will contribute to another spike in bitcoins value.

If bitcoin defeated the chines government then it would be just for temporary and not permanent because any kind of government from any part of the world will not allow that to get defeated by just one currency like bitcoin. They will do anything for them to get the control again and as much as they can they will try to control bitcoin for their own purposes.

It does not matter how powerful a country is, you cannot go against reality and the facts the will of the people can be so strong that there is nothing that can stop it even the will of some of the most powerful persons in the world and bitcoin cannot be manipulated that easy.

I think people have become increasingly immune to PboC announcements and interventions as they have become common and sort of obvious, and each time making the Chinese market less relevant,

PBOC is almost Auto Goxing what could be one of their biggest economic drivers, given their well educated population, and provide them another way out of US denominated debt.

[This is to you Head of PBOC, I know you department has people reading this.]

Now that Japan has legalized BTC, it really takes the wind out of the sales out of the "its not legal" anywhere argument and actually interlocks with local legislation a little. For example some local legislation may allow currencies to be considered legal if another country recognizes that.

Bitcoin is not waging a war with any government not now not ever. The Chinese government just want to tightens and put regulations in place, aiming to bring practices in line with how bitcoin is traded in other markets. Chinese investors have fled the market since authorities started scrutinizing bitcoin trading in China, prompting exchanges to install trading fees and, in some cases, to suspend withdrawal of bitcoin from their platforms.

So its not bitcoin fault, the Chinese took advantage of the technology and the Chinese government has caught up with them by placing regulation. Fake Chinese trading volumes are thing of the past now.

In fact, we are very far from being there

Quite a few governments have been defeated by foreign currencies in the past up to a point of completely abandoning their local monies. Everyone heard about Zimbabwe and Zimbabwean dollar which the authorities had to ditch in the end, but this is certainly not the only country which went this route. And Bitcoin can become a real threat to many weaker governments and genuine competitor to the currencies they happen to print. In other words, they might not be able to stop it. Venezuelan bolivar seems to be on the verge of collapse already, and if it does collapse (which seems to be inevitable in a matter of a few years), people will just use whatever currency they like most. There is basically nothing that a weak and incompetent government can do in this regard

Bitcoin manipulation by chinese gamblers is no more possible here after.They have already made the bitcoin price to fall many times by dumping and got cheaper bitcoins.But now the scenario has completely changed.More people all over the world are ready to buy bitcoins and if the chinese try to dump bitcoins,then surely they would have to lose their bitcoins.Dragon era has come to an end.But the bitcoin rally continues unstoppable.Whatever steps china takes to destabilize the bitcoin market,bitcoin gets more and more powerful.China too have realized this and hence they have started to regulate bitcoins instead of destabilizing it.

Nothing to say about the comparison between bitcoin and gold.
I've heard some of the countries have said bitcoin to be considered as a commodity and it not is considered as a payment method.

In fact that more people just known bitcoin as an investment place rather than payment method.
Too many people are holding his bitcoin in these days than used it to make any transaction.

That's a fact and it can not be avoided.

Bitcoin can not be called as payment method right now by determined from the average used

I basically think along the same lines

But if we look at the part of the chart which is not shown (at the left of it), i.e. what had preceded these flash crashes, we would see that Bitcoin had been rising from prices of sub-600 dollars per coin levels. My point is that the PBoC interventions were actually a trigger to corrections that had already been ripe to start anyway. Indeed, without the Chinese authorities taking the steps they took the corrections might not have been as deep but, on the other hand, we wouldn't be able to buy up bitcoins so cheap either

I personally think that the Chinese government was only trying hopelessly to shut down the whole talk that was going on about it controlling the bitcoin market by letting people use it however they want and them by regulating it in the past weeks, it may have made a bit of an impact on the price but sooner it changed and the price went up again, because most of the big companies that are mining bitcoin are located in china since the price of the electricity is cheap.

Well once we realized that the Chinese real market volume was much lower than it really seemed to be then its impact was also reduced.
Instituting the minimum trading fee gave a hint to how much the real volume China has in relative terms to total bitcoin trading.
Apparently 8% but I question that number. Somewhere between 15-20% Seems more accurate
https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/volume/30d?c=e&t=b
https://cointelegraph.com/news/no-direct-correlation-between-chinese-yuan-bitcoin-price-heres-why

Until late 2016, the Chinese Bitcoin exchange market was believed to process around 95 percent of global trading. However, the enforced trading fees unraveled the true volume of Chinese Bitcoin exchanges, which currently only account for eight percent of the global Bitcoin exchange market.

With eight percent of the global Bitcoin trading volume, it seemed unlikely that a factor which affects the Chinese market would impact the global Bitcoin exchange market and ultimately, Bitcoin price.

Locality is no longer playing any role

I refer to exchanges going global in terms of their operations. In this sense a Chinese exchange can be Chinese only by its name or the locality where it started its operations in the past. For example, Bitfinex (one of the largest Bitcoin exchanges out there if not outright the largest) was a Hong-Kong based company (so we could loosely call it a Chinese exchange too) but now they are messing up with Taiwanese banks for processing USD withdrawals and deposits. I won't be surprised if tomorrow they start using Swiss banks. But will it mean that they turn into a Swiss company?

I am quite happy if it goes up and will blame China in its advanced bitcoin economy for everything.

I dont think that Bitcoin defeats the chinese government. It is only a illusion and I can ensure that not only the chinese government involve in those kind of crappy things but also the Chinese investors as well. Well, hope that Bitcoin has a good escape in this situation

I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese government and Chinese investors are in fact the same dudes

Well, at least some from both parties (actually, from one party but still). I will never believe that the authorities are not financially involved in all these huge mining farms running in China. That simply wouldn't be possible given the political system there. We see Jihun Wu smiling and think that he acts on his own while in fact he may be just following orders from someone influential in the "inner party" (as per George Orwell's 1984)