Bitcoin Forum

Hi,

(Not sure if post in the right forum. I apologize if I don't.)

I’m thinking of buying a few bitcoins, say for 50 or 100 euro. For no real reason, just to see what it is, how it works and be part of this thing. And if I like it, see what's next.

I read all kinds of articles in the web about bitcoins and I think I understand the basics.

So I’m about to create a wallet.

I've seen quite a few people getting ripped off and bitcoin sites seem to close suddenly leaving their users uncovered. Which creates a rather unstable environment for this new currency.

I’d feel safer if I have my bitcoins locally, on my computer (with backup, I suppose). So, my idea is to have a local desktop wallet (like Armory or Bitcoin Core) and one online (preferably one that’s been up for quite a long time) in order to buy and sell, eventually, or even pay for something.

My questions:
a) Is this a common practice? Having one wallet online and another one locally?
b) Is it easy to transfer money from the online wallet to the local one and vice versa? And does it cost?
c) What solution would you suggest for me? And which wallets?

I hope my questions are not too naïve or tiresome.
Thanks :)

a) Yes. Others have multiple wallets too with lots of associated addresses.

b) Yes as it was the main good thing when using bitcoin. Cost vary or should I say transaction fees.

c) You already mentioned it : "I’d feel safer if I have my bitcoins locally, on my computer (with backup, I suppose). So, my idea is to have a local desktop wallet (like Armory or Bitcoin Core) and one online (preferably one that’s been up for quite a long time) in order to buy and sell, eventually, or even pay for something."

It is regular and even considered good practice to have more than one wallet and each with a different level of security (e.g online, offline, locally on computer...).

For software wallets, you want either Electrum (from electrum.org) or Bitcoin Core (labelled as bitcoin-qt on bitcoin.org)
Electrum is free open source software that just sends somethng known as a public key whcih links your addresses together but not the private keys that can control those addresses.
Bitcoin core is the first program that was releasd for the bitcoin system. However, it does need to syncronise and take about 110GB in comparison to Electrum's MB or KB of storage space for data.

For an online wallet, I'd recommend coinbase.com.
They cover the transaction fees for you and have been going since 2014.
They have been known to randomely block accounts but if you don't give them a reason to block your account, you'll probably be fine.

Sure it is very good to have both online and desktop wallets.For online i use blockchain.info,very secure,thay are not money transmitter so you dont need to be worry that your account will be suspended
Always back up your wallets,both online or offline

Quite simple. Make a few different wallets. local ones, online ans paper wallets, but also one on your phone. Try different wallets and read about Wallets. Just take 5€ in BTC and send it around. You will get the feeling for it, get to know how it works and what wallets you like and so on. After that you can easily decide with what you want to stick. 50-100€ is not to much to concern yourself about the details. Yes trying out some wallets and making transactions will cost you money and time, but if you stay with Bitcoin this is a very good investment, as you will know more in the future and feel a lot safer when you do this thing with more money next time.

Absolutely.  It's a common practice with any type of money, not just bitcoin.

I have some of my U.S. currency in my "wallet" in my pocket.  I have more of my U.S. currency stored securely in my home.  I have even more of my U.S. currency on deposit at a federally insured institution (known as a "bank"). I have more of my U.S. currency invested in financial instruments that grow in value over time for use in retirement.

Why wouldn't you do something similar with your bitcoins?

Have a small amount in a mobile wallet on your smartphone for easy use anywhere.  Have a larger amount stored in an online wallet that can be used to reload the phone and for larger purchases. Have an even larger amount stored securely at home and securely backed up offsite.


Yes.


Yes.

The amount it costs depends on how you received the bitcoins and how high the global transaction volume is at the time you want to send the transaction.

In general, you can expect to spend between 0.00005 BTC  (0.05 mBTC) and 0.0003 BTC (0.30 mBTC) per transaction to send bitcoins from one wallet to the other.


Armory and Bitcoin Core will require you to run a full node and expend the necessary resources to do so.  That means synchronizing the entire 100GB blockchain onto your computer and verifying every transaction that has ever been confirmed.  This can take a while and will use a significant amount of internet bandwidth and storage space.

Other good options if you don't want to expend those resources are MultiBit and Electrum.

As for mobile wallets, I like Mycellium.

The only "online wallet" I've used is blockchain.info.  They are buggy and can be frustrating at times, but for small amounts can be very convenient.

Depending on what country you are located in, you could also consider using an online service such as Coinbase or Circle.  They both provide smartphone apps.


Not at all.

I think yes. I do not use any bitcoin wallet locally because i am not used to these costum though i will not be afraid to try these wallet as long as you are trustworthy and really worthy to hold these bitcoins take care of them.


For me, online to local wallet must be easy and obviously it will must have some transaction fees and sonething like that, local to wallet I think it must be no fees but it takes time.


Well i think asking for more information about it to people that know more about it. I am just talking as a future user of your app or wallet.

Just something else, I may add. The bitcoins you buy, is only a reference on a Blockchain or a decentralized ledger, if I can simplify it. Ussually a bank manage the ledger to show, who owns what, but in this technology that reference is stored on a Blockchain that are stored on 1000's of computers running a node.

Your access to your bitcoins are dependent on your use. The best way to make sure that only YOU have access to your coins, will be for you to have sole access to the private key. Some sites hold the private key, and they manage the coins on your behalf < sometimes with their own internal ledger >

I prefer to have full control over all my coins and I manage this by using a hardware wallet and paper wallets for long term storage. It is not always possible, because in some instances you have to make use of these services, like exchanges to trade and then you have to trust them with your private key.

This is very over simplified to make it more understandable for new people. ^smile^

Thanks to all for the useful replies. You have helped. :)

(Creepings, only you, I'm not sure what you are saying there.. sorry)

I've just created a coinbase account/wallet.

When I'm trying to upload my passport in order to verify my id it gets stuck. I've tried it on two different computers and three different browsers after updating flash, just in case.

So, I feel I kind of start off on the wrong foot with coinbase. What is the best alternative? A trustworthy online wallet that has been up for long? Like the second biggest?

Thanks

Please understand that, while Coinbase likes to call their service a "wallet", they are really using that term in a misleading way.  The closest thing to an actual wallet that Coinbase offers is their "vault" when you manage your own keys.

What Coinbase calls "My Wallet" on their website is actually an account.  With an account, you give your bitcoins to Coinbase.  They become Coinbase's bitcoins.  In exchange for this donation of bitcoins, Coinbase creates an entry in a database that they control and gives you an interface that allows you to see the value in this database entry.  They then promise to send an equivalent number of their bitcoins wherever you ask them to whenever you ask them to.  You need to decide if you can trust them to keep that promise.

With a wallet, you have direct and exclusive control over your bitcoins.  You are responsible for the security of those bitcoins.

Blockchain.info is an online wallet.

Coinbase, Circle, Bitstamp, GDAX, localbitcoins.com are all examples of an online account.

because it would destroy a bit the anonimity of your coins, since with bitcoin we aim for more privacy and it would make your bitcoin more vulnerable

i find that bitcoin should not be dislocated in many place like fiat which are insured by your bank, your coins are not insured by anything and it will make them more vulnerable if anything, unless you hold them on coinbase or akin

On a different note: If you decide to install a wallet locally, make sure you take your cyber security much more serious. Scan you entire system, scan any new files that you load onto your computer and have a good scanner and second opinion scanner running to negate incoming threats.

If you can, start using a vpn, which will also help to keep you hidden and reduce the chance you become a target.

I would like to answer that question of yours :D

Answer:

A. Yes, because in my observation one address is for the bitcoin and one is for the real money to convert the bitcoin with.
B. Its not that easy it will have a long process about it and you have to file in some of the transaction of the wallet you are in just to cash out your bitcoin into real money it wont cost any but depends on the wallet that you're in :D
C. Well, I use coins.ph but its only in the philippines but i recommend you to the wallet here : paxful.com

Again, thanks to all for all the useful information.

I've just created an account at Blockchain.info and indeed, like DannyHamilton said, the first thing you get there is a wallet id. I like their interface, too. Btw. have they been up for long?

Now, I'm clicking on "buy bitcoins" and type 50 € and I see the equivalent given at: 0.04986387

When I go and check at xe.com I get: 0.0512951 instead.

Which is a difference of 0,00143123, about 1.4 €. Of course the xe.com rate is a mid rate when at Blockchain you most probably buy at a "buy" rate, and hence the difference.

Do you think it's ok to buy at their rate? And what other fees etc am I going to have till I have the bitcoins in my account? How much money from my initial 50 € is goint to make it to my account and how much is going to slip away?

thnx

If you only have a small amount of bitcoin then it is not necessary to create a desktop wallet. Web wallets are good to go so if there are huge opportunities to earn using bitcoin you can easily grab it. For me I keep my bitcoins on web wallet and other in trading sites so I can do trading and at the same time pay for my purchases on online merchants.

I guessed the right answer there is you can use one wallet. A wallet that can be online at the same time locally. Their are many wallets now that can be both there are even wallets that can convert your Bitcoin directly to Fiat via you Bank Account #. So you don't have to take any problems about sending money to different wallets.

Which wallet would you suggest then, Theb?

And which trading site would you suggest, Xester?

btw I just installed Electrum, I created a standard wallet, got back a 'seed' to store on paper and then... nothing. Electrum won't start.

I un-installed it and re-installed it and still, when clicking on it, it kind of starts, I see for a second the task icon on my task bar, and then it's gone. This under Windows 7 with the standard installator. I'm not getting a security feeling about all this.

Other people have already answered your question so I'll add some advice.
It's okay for now, but in future feel free to ask your questions in the Beginners and Help board.
This is true.  When you decide to use a service I would suggest checking the background of the owners and what other projects they've done in the past.  Popularity can sometimes be relevant (for example, I wouldn't expect the online wallets Coinbase or Blockchain to come down anytime soon, but then again I would still be wary, considering for example what happened to Mt. Gox.  If you're only storing 50-100 Euros worth of Bitcoin for now I think it's not too risky to just keep it online, as long as you use two-step authentication.

PurpleDog I'm sorry you're having difficulties getting up and running and appreciate your patience! Please understand our whole ecosystem is fairly new and evolving like the early Internet, so things may not be as smooth as people would hope but things will improve.

There are a lot of options. Your easiest route depends on how you want to use Bitcoin. Since you just want to test things out with small amounts (which is a great idea) a web wallet like blockchain.info is fine. You can become familiar with the basics. I wouldn't download anything just because as you're finding this may not go smooth to start.


You can use Bitcoin very securely, but there is a learning curve. Again, for small amounts just use blockchain.info to experience things. One of the easiest and most highly secure ways to use Bitcoin is a hardware wallet like Trezor (https://trezor.io/), but that's when you're ready to store more substantial amounts. Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like. We never get tired ;)

Hello! Ok so what I'd like to suggest is adding paper wallets to your coin. Many people like me want to invest in new coins, and paper wallets are always the safest. A hard drive can always fail, a wallet can always be compromised.

I have a blockchain.info as mobile and online wallet and an Electrum as a desktop one. My OS is Win7sp1 like yours and I have not face any problem with my electrum. I don't know what is yours when you state that does not start. Maybe if you post your case in this subforum  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=98.0)which deals exclusively with electrum posts someone could help and answer to you.

I typically buy at the rate advertised by gdax.com.

There is no "official price" for bitcoin.  Shop around as much as you like and find the price you like best with the convenience you need.  You may find places that offer it cheaper, but it might be more difficult or inconvenient.  You may find places where it is very easy and convenient, but it might cost more.


Some places might force you to pay a transaction fee when you sent the bitcoins from where you purchased them to where you want to store them.  Others might not. Most bitcoin based businesses aren't well regulated, audited, insured, or standardized.  It's up to the user to do their own due diligence and make sure they know what a business reputation, terms, requirements, and costs are before they make a decision.

Caveat Emptor.


That's impossible to say.  Bitcoin exchange rate is constantly changing based on market conditions.  You could buy 50€ worth of bitcoins, and 3 minutes later they could be worth 55€ (or more) or 40€ (or less).

I don't know a lot about Electrum.  I know it's a popular wallet, and doesn't have a reputation for being insecure.

There is a separate Electrum sub-forum here at bitcoin talk.  If you want to use Electrum, and want to better understand what is happening, why its happening, and how to prevent it, it might be a good idea to explain your problem and ask some questions there:

Electrum Sub-Forum (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=98.0):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=98.0

There is so much nonsense and so many useless posts in this thread that it's getting difficult to find your posts and maintain a good conversation.  In the future, when creating a new thread, it might not be a bad idea to mark the "self-moderated" checkbox before submitting your post.  That will allow you to delete unnecessary and unhelpful posts and keep the conversation clear and manageable.

Yes. Actually, sportis mentioned the Electrum subforum and there's even an active topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1792713.msg17875517#msg17875517), there, describing the very same problem.

But I don't see no handy solution. So I deinstalled it and I installed MultiBit, instead. This one seems to work ok.

So, to see if I understand this right. A way to buy some bitcoins and store them locally is to buy them at https://blockchain.info for the proposed rate, paying with euros directly from my bank acount, and then move the bitcoins from my blockchain online wallet to my desktop wallet. And from there I could eventually make a paper backup. Right?

I hadn't realized that blockchain.info was selling bitcoins now.  If it is possible to buy bitcoins from blockchain.info, then yes your plan would work.

a) its very common to have some wallets and some kind of wallets. Online wallets used more for fast transactions and not for holding money there.
b) yes, transactions are easy and for everything you will have to pay.
c) I suggest to you create one online wallet and one hardware wallet to keep your money there.

Yes, they seem to do. You get a wallet (together with a 12-word security "seed" to write down on some paper and keep) and there's an option "Buy Bitcoins", once you are in your wallet. But you need to link a bank acount or a credit card, first. And you need to supply a utility bill for id verification.

a) Yes, it is.
b) Yes, it's. But there is a transaction cost, it's not a fixed price. Always that you send Bitcoins from one address to another you will need to pay fees.
c) I don't know about good desktop wallets, they took a big part of computer space and I don't have enough for this, so I use only online wallet, I can recommend you the traditional BlockChain.info, it's a good online wallet and it's working since a good time ago. There are another good wallets too like the very common CoinBase.

A. Yes. The usual reason for this is so you'd have access to whatever funds you have, even when you're away from your personal computer. The one on your desktop is the main, while the web wallet has some for spending, etc.
(Of course you'll have to remember to top-up your web wallet from time to time.  ;D There was a time when I was away from my personal computer and was sorely in need of bitcoins, but realized my web wallet was drained.  :D)

B. It's easy. It all depends on the blockchain network and your fees. As for cost, it'd be better if you learn about calculating the appropriate fees. Checking bitcoinfees21 for the suggested fees at the time would help.)

C. Electrum for desktop. Doesn't require much space, functional and easy to use. Coinbase for free tx fees and there's also blockchain.info

---

That's usually the case with exchanges nowadays. Tons of verification/KYC/AML.
Sorry Electrum didn't work out for you, I wonder what's causing the issue. Hadn't encountered a problem when I first installed mine. Though I've not tried multibit yet, but I have seen some good reviews previously. Just that Electrum is more popular.

What is having some wallets and some kind of wallets ? Even if you store your bitcoin in your desktop wallet you can have faster transaction if you are giving a higher fees like in the exchanges,so that is not true that online wallets have fast transactions.

Yes, right now transaction of bitcoin has high fees and it is because of block size bitcoin
and it is not about wallet of bitcoin, until right now still there are not solution for block size,
slow transaction be confirmed and expensive fees transaction.

For desktop wallet you can use electrum for online wallet you can use blockchain,beware of some scam online Bitcoin wallet,like Tor wallet,my friend used this wallet and 3 of it's transactions did not show up,although on block explorer it clearly shows that it landed ..

Thanks everyone.

The first time I installed Electrum it didn't work.

Now I re-installed it after a new o.s. installation and all well.

I transferred a small amount of BC from my blockchain.info account and I see it appear in Electrum but as unconfirmed:

Balance: 0.BTC [+0.016 unconfirmed]

Why is that?

You being worried is quite normal.
If it's a small amount at the start to invest on bitcoin,
Then just go for it,
Try it once - if you like it then continue doing more.
A)
Yes it is a very common practice to have one wallet online and one local wallet.
Your money will be safe don't worry.
B)
Yes it is very easy to transfer online money to local wallet.
Thereay be some fees but it will be obsolete.
C)
I think that what you are doing is right.
First invest a small amount on it and then go for big ones if you like it.
You should create an account on blockchain

Tangentially related: most of my transaction volume is in Eth, not BTC, but because of that, I use a set-up very similar to what you're describing. It works quite well (for me, ymmv). I use Jaxx for my "hot wallet," and have had only good experiences with it.

Having one wallet for your regular transaction and another one for cold storage is a common practice and that is what other smart users do because they minimize their risk of losing money by having a secured cold storage wallet.

Yes it is easy to transfer your money from your current wallet to another whether it is in local or international and the only thing you will do after sending is just to wait. But don't forget to pay exact or above average mining fee for miners to be able to attain faster confirmation on your transaction.

You can use trezor wallet for cold storage or secured wallet and for online wallets, you can choose a lot of wallet like coinbase,xapo , blockchain etc. But i prefer coinbase online wallet and you can also download their app.

Just a simple explanation for your questions.
A) It's not at all like that. It's totally up to you how you want to store your bitcoins. Like you can have them all in one wallet or in different. But keeping them in different wallets is recommended .
B) Yes it is very easy to transfer bitcoins from one online wallet to another offline wallets or any kind of wallet. You just have to put your wallet address and the amount that you have to send in the send option. And yes it does cost as it would ask for a fee everytime you go to make a transaction.
C) My suggestion to you is to use offline wallets like electurm or mycelium as they do not crash much. But in case of online wallets like blockchain.info , it crashes quite often.

The confirmations in the transactions are getting delayed now. Because the number of users and transactions are high and miners for confirmations are comparatively less..
I hope it is confirmed now or reply your txn id here..  :)

Everything ok. It got confirmed after a while. :)

Well first thing is that user will first seek for quality and security of the wallet. second is the feasiabilty of the wallet and User experienc. so all this factors as a whole will make it the most awesome wallet.